PPP Community Centre

[silverlady]

I went to the new Community Centre for the first time today, and was totally impressed with it! Started with a freshly ground coffee and large slice of sponge cake, served by lovely friendly staff. Then joined a guided tour - it was wonderful!! What a great place, and very well thought out. It will a great asset to the Community, and I felt really happy and optimistic! Well done everyone involved!!!!!

[nightowl]

Seconded, Silverlady.We had a very similar experience, the staff were so friendly and enthusiastic.
One thing we were ignorant about though, was the amount of sterling work they have been doing with our young folks over the last five or so years. They all deserve this wonderful new facility to help them carry on the good work. May their success continue.

[Bill Fernie]

Photos of the new centre can be seen here -
http://www.caithness.org/fpb/2012/january/gallery.php?gallery=8

[betsy_moo]

Totally disagee that it was well thought out, in fact I would say it was an epic fail as neither the creche nor the soft play area are fit for purpose.

Quite rightly the creche is separated from the public area by a locked door. However, the public do still have access as the only way to get to the soft play area is via the creche, so there is a constant stream of people traipsing through the creche. Not only is this staff intensive, with someone having to leave the front desk or leave the care of the children to open the door, but is quite an unsettling and possibly unsafe environment for the children in the creche.

Parents taking children through to the soft play are expected to quickly return to the cafe, where only a small section of the playing area can be seen through the adjoining window, and you are separated from your young child by a locked door. Really, who on earth thought this was a good design? On my recent visit I saw kids thumping each other in the soft play, totally unseen by staff, and parents being forced to wait until a staff member noticed a crying child and took them back out to the cafe. It is completely inappropriate.

There needs to be a separate, secure creche and a separate, accessible soft play area. Then creche staff can have the responsibilty for taking the children in their care onto the soft play. And parents can access the children they are reponsible for on the soft play as well. For a building that was supposedly designed for purpose it has been very poorly thought out, and I for one am not comfortable with the layout. I will not have a locked door between me and the small child I am caring for.

And another thing, why the steps up to the cafe? Completely unnecessary for a new building which should have taken into account disabled access. I know there is a small adjacent lift (which wasn't working, and it wouldn't have mattered if it was because there was a table and chairs placed right at the top access), but it was an expensive design flaw which could have been solved by having the entrance door a bit further up the street to allow same level entry.

I'm just so disappointed, it could have been o so great.

[Crackeday]

Quite rightly the creche is separated from the public area by a locked door.
I will not have a locked door between me and the small child I am caring for.


Im confused do you want the door LOCKED or UNLOCKED as you have contradicted yourself here?
I havent been myself yet, but from 99.9% of the feedback i have heard its an excellent centre that seems to please all of the people I have spoke too, I guess your the 0.1%

[betsy_moo]

I think I was quite clear, but let me try and explain it again for you Crackaday. The first sentence of the quote you have taken from my post refered to the creche - there should definitely be a locked door between the public area and the creche. However, this door is so frequently open with the comings and goings of parents and children using the soft play area (which can only be accessed via the creche) that it creates both an unsettling environment and a security risk for the children in the creche.

The second sentence of the quote you have taken from my post refers to the soft play area. Parents of children wanting to use the soft play have not signed up for the creche, have not handed over responsibility for the children in their care, yet are denied access by this very same locked door when needed by their children.

So there is one area trying to serve two separate purposes, and failing on both counts.

From a personal experience, when my child was using the soft play area he managed to get back out to the cafe area by himself. Which was fine for me as I was there, trying to watch him play. But no member of staff had seen him leave (via the supposedly locked door) and what if this had been one of the children entrusted to the care of the creche? It could have been disasterous. Conversely, when my child later became upset in the soft play I could not get to him and had to wait till a member of staff noticed and brought him out to the cafe. Bottom line, there should never be locked door between parents and the kids in their care.

On my visit to the centre I saw several upset children who couldn't get to their mums and many a £ being wasted for an hour on the soft play when the young children, quite understandably, wouldn't stay there without their parents. Six other parents I spoke to during my visit did not feel comfortable with this locked door to the soft play. Out of the 30 or so parents there (and I didn't speak to them all), this is knocking on to a 25% unsatisfactory level - although I would imagine it is considerably more than my quick survey.

As I said before, it is such a shame. Two good ideas fail miserably when they could have been great with a slightly different layout.

[Pouleriscaig]

Well done on the new centre! It is a wonderful facility and a credit to all who have been involved in getting it up and running!

[Torvaig]

betsy_moo, you have a private message.....

[silverlady]

I think I was quite clear, but let me try and explain it again for you Crackaday. The first sentence of the quote you have taken from my post refered to the creche - there should definitely be a locked door between the public area and the creche. However, this door is so frequently open with the comings and goings of parents and children using the soft play area (which can only be accessed via the creche) that it creates both an unsettling environment and a security risk for the children in the creche.

The second sentence of the quote you have taken from my post refers to the soft play area. Parents of children wanting to use the soft play have not signed up for the creche, have not handed over responsibility for the children in their care, yet are denied access by this very same locked door when needed by their children.

So there is one area trying to serve two separate purposes, and failing on both counts.

From a personal experience, when my child was using the soft play area he managed to get back out to the cafe area by himself. Which was fine for me as I was there, trying to watch him play. But no member of staff had seen him leave (via the supposedly locked door) and what if this had been one of the children entrusted to the care of the creche? It could have been disasterous. Conversely, when my child later became upset in the soft play I could not get to him and had to wait till a member of staff noticed and brought him out to the cafe. Bottom line, there should never be locked door between parents and the kids in their care.

On my visit to the centre I saw several upset children who couldn't get to their mums and many a £ being wasted for an hour on the soft play when the young children, quite understandably, wouldn't stay there without their parents. Six other parents I spoke to during my visit did not feel comfortable with this locked door to the soft play. Out of the 30 or so parents there (and I didn't speak to them all), this is knocking on to a 25% unsatisfactory level - although I would imagine it is considerably more than my quick survey.

As I said before, it is such a shame. Two good ideas fail miserably when they could have been great with a slightly different layout.

I understand your distress, and that of the children mentioned and sorry your experience of the childrens area was less than pleasant... The lady who gave us the guided tour did say that they were seeing how it was all going as they went along, as it all "new ground" for them (this was not specifically said about the childrens play area admittedly). Have you spoken to someone in charge? I'd like to think your points would be taken on board, and an alternative exit/entrance could be arranged. It is the"community's" centre after all, so we should feel free to make suggestions.

[Torvaig]

Well said silverlady. There are often teething problems with any new project and it is up to everyone involved to put forward any concerns as it is a community service and it needs sensible feedback direct to those who run the centre. Only then will things be discussed and problems ironed out. Either ask for a meeting or put your concerns in writing. You will be helping those who run the centre to get it right.

[betsy_moo]

Yes, I did speak to someone in charge. But other than explaining the need for the locked access to the creche (which I agree with) she merely said they were constrained by the layout of the building. And, I paraphrase here, tough luck.

But the point is, it needn't have been like this. It is a pupose built facility and surely common sense at the design stage would have dictated the need for a secure creche and also an easily accessible and viewable soft play area. At the moment neither facility is fit for purpose and short of pulling down walls and rebuilding it is unlikely to change. It is more likely that the community is going to lose one of the services in order to ensure the effective running of the other.

[Pepsix]

I would like to respond to Betsy Boos's comments as it is quite clear that she does not understand the concept of the childcare services and may be confusing other people.

Monday to Friday 8am to 6.00pm it is a creche/childcare - as such the facility is locked to parents and the staff look after the children. This means parents can go and get shopping, go home and do their housework or sit and have a coffee with their friends. We are in charge of the children and look after them. We pick up children from the nurseries and the four primary schools and look after them while their parents work. This service comes under very strict care commission rules, which means parents cannot go in and out.

On a Saturday the doors are not locked, parents are free to sit in the facilites with their children and they are expected to look after them, parents cannot leave the building. We have a couple of younger staff in playing with the children so parents can have a meal or chat but they are free to come in and out and see what their children is doing.

Under Care Commission legislation we cannot run both together so if parents want to use the childcare facility at all between Monday and Friday they have to allow us to look after their children.

there is music sessions, and football sessions for smaller children and parents which is not childcare and parents can come to this with their children.

It is inappropriate and unsettling not only to their own children but other children when parents stand and gawp in the window of the soft play. From the side where children are they are left feeling like they are in a Zoo with strangers gawping in at them.

There is lots of parents in today playing with their children, and you would have been free to do so today, just not while it is a creche/day care.

We are learning and appreciate any constructive feedback, but when people have a severe attitude and are rude to staff it is difficult for staff to be nice in return.

I hope this clarifies a few issues, and we realise the service does not suit everyone but there is no obligation to use it. We have had over 900 people in this week and a great response from absolutely everyone, and I would also like to thank the people on here for their kind comments.

[Crackeday]

I think I was quite clear, but let me try and explain it again for you Crackaday. The first sentence of the quote you have taken from my post refered to the creche - there should definitely be a locked door between the public area and the creche. However, this door is so frequently open with the comings and goings of parents and children using the soft play area (which can only be accessed via the creche) that it creates both an unsettling environment and a security risk for the children in the creche.

The second sentence of the quote you have taken from my post refers to the soft play area. Parents of children wanting to use the soft play have not signed up for the creche, have not handed over responsibility for the children in their care, yet are denied access by this very same locked door when needed by their children.

So there is one area trying to serve two separate purposes, and failing on both counts.

From a personal experience, when my child was using the soft play area he managed to get back out to the cafe area by himself. Which was fine for me as I was there, trying to watch him play. But no member of staff had seen him leave (via the supposedly locked door) and what if this had been one of the children entrusted to the care of the creche? It could have been disasterous. Conversely, when my child later became upset in the soft play I could not get to him and had to wait till a member of staff noticed and brought him out to the cafe. Bottom line, there should never be locked door between parents and the kids in their care.

On my visit to the centre I saw several upset children who couldn't get to their mums and many a £ being wasted for an hour on the soft play when the young children, quite understandably, wouldn't stay there without their parents. Six other parents I spoke to during my visit did not feel comfortable with this locked door to the soft play. Out of the 30 or so parents there (and I didn't speak to them all), this is knocking on to a 25% unsatisfactory level - although I would imagine it is considerably more than my quick survey.

As I said before, it is such a shame. Two good ideas fail miserably when they could have been great with a slightly different layout.
Im afraid youve done it again!!!!
At the start you mention how the door was "so frequently open" and then you go on to say that parents are "denied access by this very same locked door when needed by their children".
It seems you have an axe to grind and have gone in with the intention of looking for faults that have been answered perfectly by pepsix.
Rather than slate a building thats only a week old maybe you should get involved and be a part of the "community" that the centre is trying to assist, but then again if there wasnt the facility would you complain as well????? :(

[trix]

i da ken anythin aboot'ed an' i probly wilna even bother goin til hev a look, as it really disna concern me or interest me...

but sayin 'at, i think its FANTASTIC for 'e community. i ken 'e little biegee next door loves goin an' wis off up ayre aday.

i says, "an' what will ye do when ye get ayre?"

he says, "meet up wi ma cousin....see what ither pals are ayre...mite meet some new friends...hing aboot an' hev a drink, maybe some grub. play in 'e soft area...choost hev a laugh 'an 'at"

i thot 'at wis really cool. he's 10.

plus, if i iver hev a bairn i could get back til work kweeker.

i think it helps take 'e toon intil 'e 21st century an' lookin 'at 'e pictures o' what 'e new council offices mite look lek, i felt a weel surge o' pride goin thro me.

an' no before time!!

when i came home fie vienna last year, wi' all its beauty i found masel stanin' in 'e toon centre o' weik, lookin aboot me shakin ma heid thinkin, "what a dump"

if nothin else, all 'iss new development in 'e toon mite put 'e value o' ma hoose up....

niver ken when i mite take a gee an' move til london [lol]

[betsy_moo]

Pepsix, from your post I presume you work at the Centre in some capacity – could you confirm if this is the case? Because if you do, I am now even more concerned about the situation. I visited the centre during the Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm timeframe you mentioned and I can assure you that parents WERE going in and out of the crèche area. The locked door was frequently open with non-creche using parents escorting their children through the crèche area to the soft play.

From the point of view of a crèche user this is clearly inappropriate and, indeed, you have confirmed it is contrary to Care Commission legislation. So why has it been happening all week?

As far as the soft play area is concerned, it is just not working the way it is currently set up. It shows a basic lack of knowledge of very young children to expect them all to happily go away from their parents for an hour and play in an unfamiliar environment, with unfamiliar adults. I suspect that is why so many parents were allowed access through the locked door, in order to ‘settle’ their children.

And I find your comment on the viewing window just bizarre. The whole point of the window is so that parents CAN watch their children. If you don’t think it should be used for this purpose then why on earth was it installed? I know my child found it reassuring to be able to see me, and in fact only became upset when he could not. I suspect by the time he is old enough to feel comfortable without my presence, he will be too old to take much enjoyment from the soft play area. And it is not unreasonable to assume this is the case for a large proportion of toddlers.

If I am a paying customer of the soft play area I would really like to be able to occasionally play on the equipment with my child. I would like to be able to leave him there and enjoy a coffee while watching him having fun. I would like to be able to go to him if he falls over or gets upset. I would like him to be able to run and tell me about the fun he’s having, who hit him, or simply to get a drink. At the moment, other than a brief settling in period on the soft play, none of these simple expectations are possible. I know of no other soft play area where the children are locked away from their parents.

Now I know you were not the member of staff with whom I discussed my concerns Pepsix as I was not rude, nor did I have a severe attitude (whatever this means). However, I am surprised that you seem to be accusing me of being so, and I hope my letter to the Centre outlining my genuine and legitimate concerns is met with a more mature response.

Ultimately, I think that the un-tenability of the situation will result in the community losing the use of the soft play area to the general public. The locked door to the crèche really has to be kept locked with no public access which will mean no soft play for children who are just too young, too shy, or just going through a clingy phase. Or indeed, for parents who simply have no wish to hand over responsibilty for their young child. Which is a shame, and I’m sure not the original intention of the organisation.

[betsy_moo]

Crackeday, I'm pretty sure I did not do it the first time, and I have not done it again.

Is it really so difficult to understand that a locked door can be frequently open, but not open 100% of the time. The fact that it is open so often causes security problems for the children in the creche. Simultaneously, the fact that it is sometimes closed causes problems for parents needing to access their children in the soft play.

I can assure you I have no axe to grind, in fact I was really looking forward to enjoying the new centre with my child. However, I was very disappointed after my visit and do not think it unreasonable to flag up some legitimate health and safety concerns.

[sjr014]

Have 2 say as a mother of a 4year old girl i totally disagree with the negative comments and the twice we have visited this week my little 1 was delighted and we will continue to use the soft play and also the childcare. I have no issues with leaving my child 2 happily play for an hour under the supervision of highly qualified and experienced staff. Would like 2 congratulate all the team at PPP for the tremendous vision they have had to pull off a wonderful building offering a wide variety of training opportunities for a variety of ages which benefits the whole community! :)

[betsy_moo]

Glad your daughter enjoyed it sjr014. You are fortunate in having a slightly older and/or more confident child than many others. Does it not worry you though that a child was able to walk through to the cafe when supposedly under the care of the highly qualified and experienced staff in the creche area?

[sjr014]

You don't have to put your child in for a full hour you could go for half an hour only if your child is younger and would be unsettled by you not being around and maybe only pop in for half of that until they realise that they are in a happy and safe environment and you may find that this will reassure them and they will be happy and confident to stay for the full time? Or try just going in on a Saturday when you cna infact stay with your child. Hard to comment about child leaving as i wasn't there and dont know the full story! Overall im happy with the new PPP and wish them the very best of luck. With it being the 1st week off opening i would expect there to be teething problems but am confident that they would not have Care Commission Registration if there wasnt vigerous policies and procedures in place in order to ensure the welfare and safety of all children using the service.

[lindaboi]

The community centre is an asset to wick and the staff have clearly worked extremely hard over the years. My kids really enjoyed the soft play area and would be very unsettled if they thought I was watching them through the window and waving to them (this would make them want to go out) it would be also disruptive and unsettling to other children with strangers looking in on them! I'm sure the window is there for children to see out to their parents who are having lunch or coffee in the cafe and not for people looking into.Well done to the ppp on such an amazing centre.

[annemarie482]

betsy_moo

i think your point has be made and noted.
pepsix has raised some interesting points as have you.
but i dont think publicly complaining about it will "recitify" the issue nor gain you support,
when the majority of posters are very happy with the new venture and service provided.
these things need support to take off, and damaging public opinions in early days is certainly not going to help that.
you have contacted the ppp so now let them address the issue/ deal with it.

(just for informations sake i am in no way connected with the ppp other than my delighted son attending the football training)

[Dadie]

We had fun..or rather my kids had fun in the softplay area on the Monday.
My wee boy who is just 2 (this month) could manage all of the softplay area on his own and the girls at 3 and 5 enjoyed it too so its great for wee ones..I dont know if bigger kids would find it tame though!
All 3 of them were in there noses pressed to the window ever so often to wave and shout at me to wave back.
None of my kids escaped, but, Iona was taken back out to me as she wanted me...then wanted back in as soon as she saw me.
Yes the softplay area is small, but, it was designed to take 25 kids not 100 kids!

Maybe a staff swipe card to open the door would stop the door being opened by the kids and a doorbell/buzzer/intercom for parents to use to contact the creche workers for the so and so is crying/need to go can I get my wee boy in the red jumper back...etc.....

Think quite a lot of the parents looking in at the window are actually trying to check the facilities out as its new and they cant go in to see!
Maybe a wee tour of the area for new kids parents would stop them!

Think it would be handy for when I want to get my hair done as kids and hair appts dont go together well...just have to find a hairdresser in Wick now as I still go to the one in Thurso I like and trust with my hair!

[Moira]

I've not had the opportunity to visit the new Centre yet but hope to do so shortly. When I do I'll ask for a guided tour to see exactly what's on offer, if the staff are available to accommodate my request.

I've witnessed the support & help given to the local community by PPP in the past when their staff & scattered premises were stretched to the limit. I was impressed by their positive attitude then so am quite sure they will pull out all the stops now to resolve any teething problems.

I wish them all the best in their new premises. :)

[telfordstar]

We get a cracking new community centre,fantastic facility's and opportunitys for people and it's being slated before its got going. Come on guys get a grip eh? give it a chance and as its been said go see the ppp or infant Katria mac ab about your concerns because on here its a whinge!

[charley9]

I took my youngest two there last week with some friends and thought it was great. They had such a good time in the soft play the 2 year old refused to come out. And I thought it was really good to have a chance to sit and chat for an hour while the kids played, without the constant "mum, mum, mum, mum" that usually accompanies it. Will be going again this week, well worth the money. And the staff were great with the kids, actually playing on the soft play with them, not sure who was having more fun.

[annemarie482]

whats the age limit for the soft play area?
(want to take my 3 yr old but my 5 year old wants to go too!)

[Dadie]

I had all 3 of mine in there 2, 3, and 5 years old!

The only thing is if trying to go after school time is that if MAASK are in there and you wont get in!

[Eilanboy]

We get a cracking new community centre,fantastic facility's and opportunitys for people and it's being slated before its got going. Come on guys get a grip eh? give it a chance and as its been said go see the ppp or infant Katria mac ab about your concerns because on here its a whinge!

Surely you are not surprised telfordstar at the negative comments.This is Wick.Three new state of the art schools being proposed including new up to date swimming pool and library plus other modern facilities,new council offices,Town Hall being refurbished all at a cost of over 70 million and as usual people on the Org find something to complain about and rubbish them.
Could only happen in Wick!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[bingocrazy]

i stay in thurso but was told i could take my little one to this next time am in wick not sure if i can do this or even just show up, can someone please pm me and let me know, would need to be a pm as am rubbish at keeping up with comments on threads

[1966]

Totally agree with you Eilanboy, you cant please all the people all the time but as long as the majority are happy with this great new community centre then this is all that is required as anyone not happy with it should maybe just find somewhere more suitable to their requirements and visit there instead. Also just to let bingocrazy know that the community centre is open to Anybody, I am sure should you visit it you will be made most welcome and enjoy the facilities 100%. Well done to all involved in PPP, and good luck for the future.

[Rheghead]

I've never been to the centre but the layout is of a priority for such a thing. It is very important that parents should be able to let their kids run wild but assured that all the exits are secure and they can't go astray under the radar.

[Eilanboy]

I've never been to the centre but the layout is of a priority for such a thing. It is very important that parents should be able to let their kids run wild but assured that all the exits are secure and they can't go astray under the radar.

Think you will find that that is indeed the case Rheghead despite the negatives being spouted.

[pads1]

I would like to add that I and 6 other parents with 2 year olds booked the soft play area yesterday. It was fantastic. Firstly we took the children through and left when we felt they were comfortable - being it a new experience for them. There were FOUR staff to look after/interact and play with them, at least one staff member was always in the soft play area helping and ensuring all the kids were happy. There was two or three occasions were a child had asked for mummy and the staff member took the child to see`the parent - and the toddler was happy to go back in. It was lovely to see them play through the window.

THe only small negative point is that a bell might be a good idea to retrieve child if you wished to go - but there was always members of staff floating about on the other side of the soft play locked area that could let you in.

The cafe is also lovely and ALL the children did not want to leave - we will be going back soon.

The staff can only be commended and are very patient, unfortunately there will be issues with childen who 'hit' and I have come across that in all areas of my child's life already - it can happen when childen are playing in another room in my house - so not isolated to a soft play area!

If you dont think the place is for you . Don't use it!

[bod1403]

Such a shame the a group that has been with the PPP since it first started isn't being treated as well as the young one's. Perhaps the "Oldies" don't bring in the same revenue!