View Full Version : Russia or America
billmoseley
08-Dec-11, 17:24
For many years we have thrown our hats in the ring with America on most things. But now i feel that we should maybe pull away from such a close friendship and look to deepen our ties with Russia and China. I don't think Russia is a threat to us. I also have taken to watching the Russian news service and it's surprising how different they see the world and how they perceive us in the west. Maybe it's time for a change. What do you Orgers think?
oldmarine
08-Dec-11, 17:43
For many years we have thrown our hats in the ring with America on most things. But now i feel that we should maybe pull away from such a close friendship and look to deepen our ties with Russia and China. I don't think Russia is a threat to us. I also have taken to watching the Russian news service and it's surprising how different they see the world and how they perceive us in the west. Maybe it's time for a change. What do you Orgers think?
Prior to WW2 America was an isolationist country. It was only after GB, FDR, and a few others plus the Japanese attacking America at Pearl Harbor that the USA got involved. Since then the USA has been in too many wars. I say "let each country fight their own battles." Would that make you happy?
cptdodger
08-Dec-11, 18:28
For many years we have thrown our hats in the ring with America on most things. But now i feel that we should maybe pull away from such a close friendship and look to deepen our ties with Russia and China. I don't think Russia is a threat to us. I also have taken to watching the Russian news service and it's surprising how different they see the world and how they perceive us in the west. Maybe it's time for a change. What do you Orgers think?
I agree, something that should have been done years ago. I'ts cost us a lot this "special relationship" with America.
John Little
08-Dec-11, 18:28
Hitler declared war on the United States on 10 December 1941. That made it the USA's war as well.
Stupidest thing he ever did; and he did plenty.
John Little
08-Dec-11, 18:30
Bill - I think casting in your lot with a superpower is not the way to go.
We've already cast our lot in anyway - with Europe.
billmoseley
08-Dec-11, 18:57
We've already cast our lot in anyway - with Europe.[/QUOTE]
well it's time we got out of that before it drags us down with it
Prior to WW2 America was an isolationist country. It was only after GB, FDR, and a few others plus the Japanese attacking America at Pearl Harbor that the USA got involved. Since then the USA has been in too many wars. I say "let each country fight their own battles." Would that make you happy?
Isolationist prior to WW2? Between WW1 and WW2 it was involved in conflicts in Nicaragua, Haiti, Mexico and the Dominican republic.
Alex is doing the right thing...siding up with China and getting a special relationship going!!
China will be a major superpower before very long and when we are out of the UK who better to have on your side.
C3..........:roll:;)
weezer 316
08-Dec-11, 21:11
Sorry but these are antiquated views. No one exists in isolation now, we throw our hat in with each country and theirs in with us, that way we will all be better off.
oldmarine
08-Dec-11, 22:33
Rheghead: Yes, the USA was involved in those conflicts, but when WW2 was brewing in Europe the citizens did not want to get involved. There were many demonstrations by the people who did not want to get involved with the war in Europe. FDR started the loan-lease program to get necessary supplies to the UK to help them fight that war. The citizens of the USA were very reluctant to do even that. Hitler's Germany sunk a lot of the USA ships trying to get those necessary supplies to the UK. It took the Japanese attack of Pearl Harbor to change all of that. After that the people in the USA followed the slogan "Remember Pearl Harbor." Even then 80% of the supplies were shipped to GB with only 20% going to we people in the Pacific. That's one of the main reasons the war in the Pacific lasted longer. I now feel we have been in too many wars and we should quit helping other nations fight their wars. Perhaps the people commenting on this thread to pull away from the USA are correct.
John Little
08-Dec-11, 22:46
Oldmarine - forgive me but I think you missed my point. In WW2 the USA did not help other people to fight "their" wars.
They fought against Japan because Japan attacked them.
They fought against Germany because Germany declared war on them.
They were America's wars.
billmoseley
08-Dec-11, 22:53
What i don't understand is why the USA seem intent on winding up Russia. Take this missile defence shield they want to install why not bring russia in on it and stop treating it like there was still a cold war on. I feel they have a lot to bring to the world.
There is a saying that has worked well for us over the years...
Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't know.
Yes OM...The United States has Policed the World...it is time to 'pull back'.......It has cost a lot!
oldmarine
08-Dec-11, 23:28
There is a saying that has worked well for us over the years...
Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't know.
Yes OM...The United States has Policed the World...it is time to 'pull back'.......It has cost a lot!
I most certainly agree. I and many other citizens like me are tired of fighting wars. I've been in too many of them during my 86 years.
For many years we have thrown our hats in the ring with America on most things. But now i feel that we should maybe pull away from such a close friendship and look to deepen our ties with Russia and China. I don't think Russia is a threat to us. I also have taken to watching the Russian news service and it's surprising how different they see the world and how they perceive us in the west. Maybe it's time for a change. What do you Orgers think?
Who in their right mind would want to ally us to two of the countries in the world with their record of human rights against their own peoples, except our First buffoon Eck
Rheghead: Yes, the USA was involved in those conflicts, but when WW2 was brewing in Europe the citizens did not want to get involved. There were many demonstrations by the people who did not want to get involved with the war in Europe. FDR started the loan-lease program to get necessary supplies to the UK to help them fight that war. The citizens of the USA were very reluctant to do even that. Hitler's Germany sunk a lot of the USA ships trying to get those necessary supplies to the UK. It took the Japanese attack of Pearl Harbor to change all of that. After that the people in the USA followed the slogan "Remember Pearl Harbor." Even then 80% of the supplies were shipped to GB with only 20% going to we people in the Pacific. That's one of the main reasons the war in the Pacific lasted longer. I now feel we have been in too many wars and we should quit helping other nations fight their wars. Perhaps the people commenting on this thread to pull away from the USA are correct.
And from then on nothing really changed.
oldmarine
11-Dec-11, 19:30
Since you people don't like Americans I will depart and not bother you anymore. I wonder what those Scotts who married Americans think about this thread?
billmoseley
11-Dec-11, 20:19
Since you people don't like Americans I will depart and not bother you anymore. I wonder what those Scotts who married Americans think about this thread? it's not Americans it's their policies that scare me so don't leave. what we are having is healthy debate
Since you people don't like Americans I will depart and not bother you anymore. I wonder what those Scotts who married Americans think about this thread?
Please lighten up, I did not mention that I disliked Americans or even gave a hint of it. But something of my posts obviously gave you the impression that some parts of American history is worthy of shame, as is British history. It is the place of Americans to right some wrongs by influencing their own politics. It would be folly to say that I dislike the British. :eek:
John Little
11-Dec-11, 22:09
I agree with Reggie. I have several American friends- and funnily enough they are not particularly fond of US foreign policy.
It doesn't mean they don't like Americans does it?
Since you people don't like Americans I will depart and not bother you anymore. I wonder what those Scotts who married Americans think about this thread?
OM.....This is a general anti trait on here I fear, especially from those in the UK...I live in Canada and am a Scot, but I find the same thing.
I suppose it is the 'small mind' syndrome of those who think and tell people they are very well educated, scholarly and superior...You can tell those people by the big words, sometimes used in the wrong place...and of course the flowery verbiage......
A recent post this Professor made on a thread on Caithness.org, decided to tell us poor ignorant immigrant souls...'What Money is'.... and then goes on to describe it.......
But then when you question his Cop Hating tendencies, he complains to the Mods even to the extent that I was threatening him( 3500 miles away), and Moira etal dishes out warnings..............Can you imagine.
sassylass
12-Dec-11, 02:21
Since you people don't like Americans I will depart and not bother you anymore. I wonder what those Scotts who married Americans think about this thread?
oldmarine, while there are some who seem anti American, there are far more who just like a good debate. You are a valuable contributor to this forum and I hope you stay.
oldmarine, while there are some who seem anti American, there are far more who just like a good debate. You are a valuable contributor to this forum and I hope you stay.
Very well said Sassylass, I for one am not anti American, and I would rather you stayed Oldmarine.
Southern-Gal
12-Dec-11, 10:40
I dont do politics at all so forgive me if I make some terrible mistakes here :)
I think that it would be a mistake to get allied with a nation that treats its orphans, animals, children and any other living thing with less respect than we would a shiny new manufactured inanimate object. Imagine how our soldiers would be treated if saved by our allies? The Chinese are an incredibly tough nation. What they do to themselves in the name on etertainment on game shows would be classed as cruelty over here!
Some examples are
http://www.smh.com.au/world/a-seriously-ill-society-hitrun-case-of-little-yueyue-shocks-china--and-the-world-20111018-1ltv1.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512657/Starring-horse-riding-lions-Sickest-Show-Earth.html
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-2-21/51905.html
http://www.chinasucks.org/xichang.htm
How awful would it be to have them as allies?
Id rather go it aloe :(
I know nothing about Russia Im afraid.
For all their faults the Americans as a nation can empathise with other living things :)
Lets all hope that one day soon we wont need allies x
Hitler declared war on the United States on 10 December 1941. That made it the USA's war as well.
Stupidest thing he ever did; and he did plenty. Thought it was Op Barbarossa?
John Little
12-Dec-11, 11:14
Nah - that was June 21 1941 - invasion of Russia.
Mob-handed with 3 million men- not very subtle.
OM.....This is a general anti trait on here I fear, especially from those in the UK...I live in Canada and am a Scot, but I find the same thing.
I suppose it is the 'small mind' syndrome of those who think and tell people they are very well educated, scholarly and superior...You can tell those people by the big words, sometimes used in the wrong place...and of course the flowery verbiage......
A recent post this Professor made on a thread on Caithness.org, decided to tell us poor ignorant immigrant souls...'What Money is'.... and then goes on to describe it.......
But then when you question his Cop Hating tendencies, he complains to the Mods even to the extent that I was threatening him( 3500 miles away), and Moira etal dishes out warnings..............Can you imagine.
Oh come on sandyr1 stop blowing it all out of proportion. I've read Reggy's posts and they are not anti-American - as far as I can see he intended no insult to America or Oldmarine so please don't misread it OM..
We do owe a debt to America, They lost an awful lot of people in WW1 and WW2,for which we should be eternally grateful..
Align with Russia, nah - guaranteed that country is going to explode in the not too distant future.. Mrs Beks is of Russian extraction, her 'White lot' got out in 1917 to get away from the Bolsheviks, she has no intention of going back.
Ok these threads do degenerate, and it's all the better for it usually, but for sandyr1 to use it to continue his personal dislike of anybody educated, is a wee bit further off thread than it should be?
George Brims
13-Dec-11, 19:42
You will like it a whole lot less if that buffoon Newt Gingrich gets elected. He has proposed that he would appoint John Bolton as his Secretary of State. Bolton is completely barking mad (almost as loopy as GW Bush, who appointed Bolton, a man dedicated to the destruction of the UN, as the US Ambassador to - the UN!). Fortunately he must have been taking his meds and turned Newt down, but I bet if the offer was real instead of speculative he would change his mind.
Newt, incidentally, may have committed a felony-level election fraud by offering a job at this stage in the campaign.
For many years we have thrown our hats in the ring with America on most things. But now i feel that we should maybe pull away from such a close friendship and look to deepen our ties with Russia and China. I don't think Russia is a threat to us. I also have taken to watching the Russian news service and it's surprising how different they see the world and how they perceive us in the west. Maybe it's time for a change. What do you Orgers think?
So this is the type of government you want us to ally ourselves to is it? As for our First bufoon and his pandas, dont get me started.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/12/13/embattled-chinese-village-wukan-under-siege-by-riot-police-115875-23630867/
Oh dear Golach, do you trust a newspaper that has on your link a statement saying ...."more Top Stories"...Man bailed over death of a window......... etc!!!
I killed a window once but the police let me off as they thought it wasn't worth looking into.......:roll:
Btw, Wee Eck is the greatest!!!....just to get you started of course!! ;)
C3...............:lol:
Oh dear Golach, do you trust a newspaper that has on your link a statement saying ...."more Top Stories"...Man bailed over death of a window......... etc!!!C3...............:lol:
This any better I could go on cherry picking, but I wont
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/25/china-landgrab-inquiry-wukan-protests
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