View Full Version : This is what religion does for the world
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 11:38
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12944851
Totally absurd. People beheaded and mass attacks over someone burning a book, and a work of fiction at that. Quite how anyone who advocates religious belief can explain this I would like to see. And before you blame "extremists" remember that fundamentalists cant exist without religion underpinning it......
Sooner Islam, Christianity and every other faith disappears the better. Would think its the 10th century and not the 21st with this nonsense.
Tubthumper
02-Apr-11, 11:49
I'm particularly impressed with the attention-seeking 'Pastor' in the States who burned the Koran to prove a point but claims he can't be held responsible for the results.
What goes on in the heads of him and those Westboro church gimps?
My thoughts have always been.
Religion has a lot to answer for.
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 12:19
That pastor needs shot, and he needs shot simply cause hes an idiot that the world wouldnt miss! Incredible. Can you imagine a mass uprising at Oxford and them storming the US embassy and beheading people if some student at harvard burned a copy of Origin of the species?!?! It would quite rightly be be classed as an act of madness and the offenders punished and ostracized form society.
Anyone want to put across religions view on this madness?
One or more biggots has manufactured a situation that they knew full well would result in the deaths of others through the hands of extremists. It is little more than murder by proxy.
This is a crime against humanity and they should all be treated with the contempt that they deserve.
That pastor needs shot, and he needs shot simply cause hes an idiot that the world wouldnt miss!?
My god wheezer you are as predgidiced and as intollreant as the rest of them.....whats your motto....spread the hate...equal ignorance for all!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12944851
Totally absurd. People beheaded and mass attacks over someone burning a book, and a work of fiction at that. Quite how anyone who advocates religious belief can explain this I would like to see. And before you blame "extremists" remember that fundamentalists cant exist without religion underpinning it......
Sooner Islam, Christianity and every other faith disappears the better. Would think its the 10th century and not the 21st with this nonsense.
Yep - all this originated in the home of the brave and the land of the free! But hey - we can always hope with their right to bear arms someone will shoot the mad pastor,:confused.
Its ok to burn the bible, the Union flag or poppies on Remembrance day though.
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 13:18
My god wheezer you are as predgidiced and as intollreant as the rest of them.....whats your motto....spread the hate...equal ignorance for all!!!!
Sorry, sarcasm is hard to get across online. I clearly dont advocate shooting him on one hand then criticizing the deaths in the linked piece on the other. My point was to illistrate how lowly I think of such people, especially one who touts religion.
Its ok to burn the bible, the Union flag or poppies on Remembrance day though.
Aye - that's because the die-hard lefties will tell you we are a tolerant, multicultural nation where diversity is paramount. I wonder how that happened? I can't remember any meaningful discussion - oh there wasn't one incase it was deemed racist!.
Shabbychic
02-Apr-11, 15:00
Lynch mob mentality is not just the sole prerogative of religion. If you look at the news you'll see it goes on every day worldwide, for various reasons.
How about a black football player in England, chased and hit with bricks because he scored against the other team, a suspected thief in Uganda, beaten to death by a crowd, or nine people in India, including four children, burnt to death in the house of a man accused of killing a village leader. None of them have anything to do with religion. It is also going on in Libya right now.
So yes, religion may have a lot to answer for, but it does not stand alone.
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 15:20
Lynch mob mentality is not just the sole prerogative of religion. If you look at the news you'll see it goes on every day worldwide, for various reasons.
How about a black football player in England, chased and hit with bricks because he scored against the other team, a suspected thief in Uganda, beaten to death by a crowd, or nine people in India, including four children, burnt to death in the house of a man accused of killing a village leader. None of them have anything to do with religion. It is also going on in Libya right now.
So yes, religion may have a lot to answer for, but it does not stand alone.
Your right it certainly doesn't stand alone. However most of the points you brought up were at worst spontaneous madness, or as you put it "Lynch mob mentality". None of them has an entire organization, structured and spanning the whole world , indoctrinating a new generation that unbridled belief is a good thing, and killing in the name of a work of fiction is ok and infact is deemed good in the eyes of the creator. Thats why religion must disappear and soon
Lynch mob mentality is not just the sole prerogative of religion. If you look at the news you'll see it goes on every day worldwide, for various reasons.
How about a black football player in England, chased and hit with bricks because he scored against the other team, a suspected thief in Uganda, beaten to death by a crowd, or nine people in India, including four children, burnt to death in the house of a man accused of killing a village leader. None of them have anything to do with religion. It is also going on in Libya right now.
So yes, religion may have a lot to answer for, but it does not stand alone.
I'm assuming your reply was to me, as you have quoted me.
Did i say that religion is responsible for every ill doing in the world. NO. I am not that naive to think so.
But as i said and still stand by, it does have a lot to answer for.
My old Dad taught me a long time ago that there have been more people killed on this little planet of ours because of one word RELIGION, regardless of which one, Christian, Islam, Hindu or what ever, and I have not had any reason to disbelieve him yet.
Shabbychic
02-Apr-11, 15:37
I'm assuming your reply was to me, as you have quoted me.
Did i say that religion is responsible for every ill doing in the world. NO. I am not that naive to think so.
But as i said and still stand by, it does have a lot to answer for.
My reply was not to you, if it was, I would have quoted you. "Having a lot to answer for" is a generic statement. I was merely stating my views on the the topic heading.
onecalledk
02-Apr-11, 15:43
Religions all over the world DIVIDE people, perhaps that is why they were created in the first place? Everyone in the world is too busy arguing over whos god is best and fighting each other in the name of religion to do anything else. Its a smokescreen for a lot of things and as the 21st century unfolds it will show itself for what it is. Its a way to conquer and rule through fear and nothing else.....
K
My old Dad taught me a long time ago that there have been more people killed on this little planet of ours because of one word RELIGION, regardless of which one, Christian, Islam, Hindu or what ever, and I have not had any reason to disbelieve him yet.
Whole heartedly agree with you.
My reply was not to you, if it was, I would have quoted you. "Having a lot to answer for" is a generic statement. I was merely stating my views on the the topic heading.
Apology to you. If that was the case.
The bible clearly warns you against the practices of false religions.It also states,that no true practicing christian would take up arms against his fellow brothers.Although i am not a jehovah witness,i have great respect for them.False religions can be recognised by their teachings.In my opinion, jehovah witnesses are the only practicing christians who to my mind stand fast to bible principles.Satan at the moment rules this world.And as we all should know,he is the deciever.He trys to pull us as far away from god as he possibly can.But it must be remembered, he has also been called the angle of light.This is one of the reasons why, there are so many false religions in this world today.
Thats why religion must disappear and soon
God is in our lives; yesterday, today, tomorrow and for ever.... always has been; always will be .... DEAL WITH IT !!! (Oh and before you (and possibly others?) decide to take umbridge with my sentiments...........It's a Free Forum that I choose to comment on......if you have trouble with my sincere and heartfelt thoughts on MY religion, then I more than welcome PM's ? !
The bible clearly warns you against the practices of false religions.It also states,that no true practicing christian would take up arms against his fellow brothers.Although i am not a jehovah witness,i have great respect for them.False religions can be recognised by their teachings.In my opinion, jehovah witnesses are the only practicing christians who to my mind stand fast to bible principles.Satan at the moment rules this world.And as we all should know,he is the deciever.He trys to pull us as far away from god as he possibly can.But it must be remembered, he has also been called the angle of light.This is one of the reasons why, there are so many false religions in this world today.
Being a mere mortal how can I be sure the Bible doesn't promulgate a false religion?
God is in our lives; yesterday, today, tomorrow and for ever.... always has been; always will be .... DEAL WITH IT !!! (Oh and before you (and possibly others?) decide to take umbridge with my sentiments...........It's a Free Forum that I choose to comment on......if you have trouble with my sincere and heartfelt thoughts on MY religion, then I more than welcome PM's ? !
While I have the utmost respect for your beliefs I have to say I am concerned that you resort to SHOUTING to make your point. This is precisely why religion gets such a bad reputation. Perhaps weezer 316 has a point after all,:confused:lol:
The bible clearly warns you against the practices of false religions.It also states,that no true practicing christian would take up arms against his fellow brothers.Although i am not a jehovah witness,i have great respect for them.False religions can be recognised by their teachings.In my opinion, jehovah witnesses are the only practicing christians who to my mind stand fast to bible principles.Satan at the moment rules this world.And as we all should know,he is the deciever.He trys to pull us as far away from god as he possibly can.But it must be remembered, he has also been called the angle of light.This is one of the reasons why, there are so many false religions in this world today.
So if you do not follow Jehovah, you are false? Satan rules the world ?
God is in our lives; yesterday, today, tomorrow and for ever.... always has been; always will be .... DEAL WITH IT !!! (Oh and before you (and possibly others?) decide to take umbridge with my sentiments...........It's a Free Forum that I choose to comment on......if you have trouble with my sincere and heartfelt thoughts on MY religion, then I more than welcome PM's ? !
It is your prerogative to believe in what ever you want to. I personally do not care. I believe there is just good and bad, and maybe a little in between.
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 17:44
God is in our lives; yesterday, today, tomorrow and for ever.... always has been; always will be .... DEAL WITH IT !!! (Oh and before you (and possibly others?) decide to take umbridge with my sentiments...........It's a Free Forum that I choose to comment on......if you have trouble with my sincere and heartfelt thoughts on MY religion, then I more than welcome PM's ? !
No, hes in your life darling, not mine and thankfully not our governments either. And im perfectly happy for you to have your say, did you not see me asking for a religious apologists view on the article I named? Perhaps you could share those thoughts with us?
And one more thing, Ill comment and criticise your religion if I like, just they same as you can do so my lack of religion. We have moved past the age when denying of god would have got me burned at the stake. Deal with that as you like to say, minus the shouting of course
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 17:46
The bible clearly warns you against the practices of false religions.It also states,that no true practicing christian would take up arms against his fellow brothers.Although i am not a jehovah witness,i have great respect for them.False religions can be recognised by their teachings.In my opinion, jehovah witnesses are the only practicing christians who to my mind stand fast to bible principles.Satan at the moment rules this world.And as we all should know,he is the deciever.He trys to pull us as far away from god as he possibly can.But it must be remembered, he has also been called the angle of light.This is one of the reasons why, there are so many false religions in this world today.
And you know christianity to be true how? And this is the point, he wouldnt take up arms against his brothers, but I assume you advocate taking up arms against a non brother (ie a muslim) over someone burning a bible?
My old Dad taught me a long time ago that there have been more people killed on this little planet of ours because of one word RELIGION, regardless of which one, Christian, Islam, Hindu or what ever, and I have not had any reason to disbelieve him yet.
Thats why my son and daughter, aged 15 and 17, if asked what religion they were, wouldnt have a clue what to say.
Tubthumper
02-Apr-11, 17:58
What does God say about Pastor Jones?
God is in our lives; yesterday, today, tomorrow and for ever.... always has been; always will be .... DEAL WITH IT !!! (Oh and before you (and possibly others?) decide to take umbridge with my sentiments...........It's a Free Forum that I choose to comment on......if you have trouble with my sincere and heartfelt thoughts on MY religion, then I more than welcome PM's ? !
My god! (small g), you're getting excited aren't you. what's up, worried 'I'll take umbrage"? no need to shout to get whatever is your point across..
OK so you need your religion, personally I don't know why, but each to their own I suppose..
But I'd rather you'd not continue to use the words; "God is in our lives" - he ain't in mine, maybe better to calm down and say "God is in my life", Don't bring me into it...;)
The Drunken Duck
02-Apr-11, 18:42
Religion can make people do some seriously offensive things. Things that should never see the light of day.
Like this for instance .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
If there is a God .. why ?? .. for the love of all that is good and holy .. why ??
John Little
02-Apr-11, 19:03
Because it ain't religion that's the problem.
It's the interpretation of religion that's the problem.
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 19:32
Religion can make people do some seriously offensive things. Things that should never see the light of day.
Like this for instance .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
If there is a God .. why ?? .. for the love of all that is good and holy .. why ??
Report this man to the moderator immediately! Infact report him to the procurator fiscal! Truly awful haha!
oldmarine
02-Apr-11, 20:24
Guess I'm getting too old to understand these comments. I was taught by my Christian mother and have believed ever since to respect all people whom ever they may be. When I was in Caithness on my job and on vacation I saw the people a lot different than what I read on this website. What has changed? People appear to be so hateful in their postings and have little respect for anyone. I served with many from the United Kingdom during WW2 and they appeared to be a different breed from those I read on this forum. Have I changed that much or are the younger generations different?
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 20:55
Guess I'm getting too old to understand these comments. I was taught by my Christian mother and have believed ever since to respect all people whom ever they may be. When I was in Caithness on my job and on vacation I saw the people a lot different than what I read on this website. What has changed? People appear to be so hateful in their postings and have little respect for anyone. I served with many from the United Kingdom during WW2 and they appeared to be a different breed from those I read on this forum. Have I changed that much or are the younger generations different?
Anyone who advocates religion of any kind and then calls others hateful of spiteful are hypocrites of the highest order. Religion, and the abrahmic religions specifically, advocate homophobia, rascism, sexism and actively encourage killing of non believers within thier holy scriptures. If you believe in those scriptures, regardless of what you say in the here and now, then you are peddling all of the above.
Younger generations have for more belief in the rule of law and a respect that you can believe what you want but hand in hand with that goes the ability to criticise what you want. Dont confuse that with a lack of respect.
tonkatojo
02-Apr-11, 21:08
Guess I'm getting too old to understand these comments. I was taught by my Christian mother and have believed ever since to respect all people whom ever they may be. When I was in Caithness on my job and on vacation I saw the people a lot different than what I read on this website. What has changed? People appear to be so hateful in their postings and have little respect for anyone. I served with many from the United Kingdom during WW2 and they appeared to be a different breed from those I read on this forum. Have I changed that much or are the younger generations different?
I'm with your train of thought in your last sentence oldmarine in as much the younger generations just say what they please these days right or wrong in the manner older folk wouldn't.
Guess I'm getting too old to understand these comments. I was taught by my Christian mother and have believed ever since to respect all people whom ever they may be. When I was in Caithness on my job and on vacation I saw the people a lot different than what I read on this website. What has changed? People appear to be so hateful in their postings and have little respect for anyone. I served with many from the United Kingdom during WW2 and they appeared to be a different breed from those I read on this forum. Have I changed that much or are the younger generations different?
I am new to Caithness and the local people I have met are respectful, caring and accepting of others. The posts on here I find do not reflect the attitude of those I have met and thank goodness for that.
Because it ain't religion that's the problem.
It's the interpretation of religion that's the problem.
An intelligent post at last ...... well said !!!! why is when religion is mentioned on here reason goes and the emotional rantings start again? .
weezer 316
02-Apr-11, 22:55
I am new to Caithness and the local people I have met are respectful, caring and accepting of others. The posts on here I find do not reflect the attitude of those I have met and thank goodness for that.
What posts would they be?
And care to comment on the point raised at the start of the thread?
What posts would they be?
And care to comment on the point raised at the start of the thread?
I too, would like to know the answer to that.
secrets in symmetry
02-Apr-11, 23:08
The bible clearly warns you against the practices of false religions.It also states,that no true practicing christian would take up arms against his fellow brothers.Although i am not a jehovah witness,i have great respect for them.False religions can be recognised by their teachings.In my opinion, jehovah witnesses are the only practicing christians who to my mind stand fast to bible principles.Satan at the moment rules this world.And as we all should know,he is the deciever.He trys to pull us as far away from god as he possibly can.But it must be remembered, he has also been called the angle of light.This is one of the reasons why, there are so many false religions in this world today.
Where does Satan rule this world from and how do you know? Are you one of the followers of the angle of light?
An intelligent post at last ...... well said !!!! why is when religion is mentioned on here reason goes and the emotional rantings start again? .
that is a pretty clear answer to the initial posting but perhaps you do not understand what it means?
Guess I'm getting too old to understand these comments. I was taught by my Christian mother and have believed ever since to respect all people whom ever they may be. When I was in Caithness on my job and on vacation I saw the people a lot different than what I read on this website. What has changed? People appear to be so hateful in their postings and have little respect for anyone. I served with many from the United Kingdom during WW2 and they appeared to be a different breed from those I read on this forum. Have I changed that much or are the younger generations different?
¬I am new to Caithness and the local people I have met are respectful, caring and accepting of others. The posts on here I find do not reflect the attitude of those I have met and thank goodness for that. "
I think that is a clear enough answer for anyone to understand.
secrets in symmetry
02-Apr-11, 23:12
Religions all over the world DIVIDE people, perhaps that is why they were created in the first place? Everyone in the world is too busy arguing over whos god is best and fighting each other in the name of religion to do anything else. Its a smokescreen for a lot of things and as the 21st century unfolds it will show itself for what it is. Its a way to conquer and rule through fear and nothing else.....
K
Your pronouncements on Religion never cease to amaze me. If you are so against Religion, why do you worship crystals and crystal skulls? Don't try to dodge the issue by claiming that it's not religion. It's not science because science tell us that what you sell doesn't exist. So it requires blind faith and belief in something that most sane people would tell you doesn't exist.
The Music Monster
02-Apr-11, 23:23
I think, when you accept that organised religion is a man made institution, it is open to corruption as all institutions (not only religion!) are. For the most part religious people are very tolerant of other people - you would be absolutely out of order to suggest otherwise. Whilst any loss of life is tragic, and intentional destruction of life (ie murder) is deplorable, one has to question why the burning of the Qur'an was allowed to happen in the first place. It seems to me that freedom of speech and expression is taken and warped to allow people of one group to antagonise and offend people of another. If people obeyed the law on freedom of expression then none of this would happen, as toleration of creed and race are a part of that Act.
By the by, I find it rather tragically ironic that the moderators find posts condemning religion entirely acceptable and yet, as someone mentioned earlier, come down like a ton of bricks about potential racial issues.
And be warned, Weezer, you tread a very dangerous line when you condemn the Jewish religion. The scars of WWII are very much present in the Semitic world.
secrets in symmetry
02-Apr-11, 23:39
God is in our lives; yesterday, today, tomorrow and for ever.... always has been; always will be .... DEAL WITH IT !!! (Oh and before you (and possibly others?) decide to take umbridge with my sentiments...........It's a Free Forum that I choose to comment on......if you have trouble with my sincere and heartfelt thoughts on MY religion, then I more than welcome PM's ? !
I'm the kind of woman whose feet hit the floor each morning, and the Devil says........... " Oh, Blast She's Up !! "
I know it's in your signature and not in your post, but this is the second time I've seen Christians quoting the Devil in this thread. Are you suggesting the Devil fears You?
Religions all over the world DIVIDE people, perhaps that is why they were created in the first place? Everyone in the world is too busy arguing over whos god is best and fighting each other in the name of religion to do anything else. Its a smokescreen for a lot of things and as the 21st century unfolds it will show itself for what it is. Its a way to conquer and rule through fear and nothing else.....
K
I have to disagree with you there, K. There is only one motivator for the divisions in the world: people. People want wealth and the associated power. people will do anything for wealth and power. They will create a moral smokescreen called religion that is often transparent to those on the outside, but that justifies to themselves what they are willing to do to attain wealth and power. Religions in themselves have a core based on what is good in our humanity, but then we choose to interpret these philosophical texts in a way that justifies the commission of atrocities to get what we want: Wealth/Power.
The american pastor is a bully who wanted a reaction. He got exactly the reaction he wanted and the publicity he wanted. Better to be known in ignonimity than to live in obscurity.
And be warned, Weezer, you tread a very dangerous line when you condemn the Jewish religion. The scars of WWII are very much present in the Semitic world.
Are you saying that we cannot/should not criticise Judaism? Is Israel and its people sacrosant?
Being a mere mortal how can I be sure the Bible doesn't promulgate a false religion?
By reading the scriptures and studying them thoroughly,god gives us a clear message of true religion and false religions.For example many religions use symbols to worship over,the cross being(the principal symbol of christian religion).Nevertheless,true christians do not use the cross in worship.Why not?the important reason being jesus did not die on a cross.The bible was written in two languages greek being one,and hebrew being the other.The greek word generally translated(cross) is stau.ros.It basically means(an upright pale or stake).The companion bible points out:(stau.ros)never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle...there is nothing in the greek of the (new testement)even two imply two pieces of timber.In several texts,bible writers use another word for the instrument of jesus death.It is the greek word xy'lon.(acts 5:30: 10:39, 13:29, galatians 3:13, 1peter 2:24) this word simply means timber or a stick,club,or tree.By studying the scriptures thoroughly and doing some research many other practices of false religion can be quite clearly seen.
The Music Monster
03-Apr-11, 01:04
Are you saying that we cannot/should not criticise Judaism? Is Israel and its people sacrosant?
Not at all, just be aware that the repercussions of such statements can be substantial.
And you know christianity to be true how? And this is the point, he wouldnt take up arms against his brothers, but I assume you advocate taking up arms against a non brother (ie a muslim) over someone burning a bible?
As i said i am not a jehovah witness.However i know full well, that no jehovah witness, nor i, would bare arms against anyone,no matter what religion or colour that brother may be.Violence for whatever reason is strictly forbiden.
What does God say about Pastor Jones?
No true christian would bear arms against each other.Did you notice on the news report,the pistol that he keeps by his side.
Where does Satan rule this world from and how do you know? Are you one of the followers of the angle of light?
To explain what you have asked,would take me far to long.However i will say, your ignorance shines through.
Shabbychic
03-Apr-11, 01:50
By reading the scriptures and studying them thoroughly,god gives us a clear message of true religion and false religions.
God didn't actually write the bible....man did. So no matter how it translates, in whatever language, it is still a man written document, therefore proves nothing.
I totally respect your views and your religion, and have also studied world religions, but it should be a personal thing, and not something to push at people, who obviously don't hold the same views. It also doesn't mean that people who don't believe as you do are ignorant or stupid.
oldmarine
03-Apr-11, 03:54
As i said i am not a jehovah witness.However i know full well, that no jehovah witness, nor i, would bare arms against anyone,no matter what religion or colour that brother may be.Violence for whatever reason is strictly forbiden.
When I served with the U.S. Marines in the Pacific during WW2 and was disabled my a mortar shell a Navy Pharmacist Mate who was a Jehovah Witness carried me to safety away from the enemy. I always credited him with my life. Today, I have a Jehovah Witness friend who meets with me at a local Mac Donalds. We have become great friends.
Not at all, just be aware that the repercussions of such statements can be substantial.
I’m well aware of the repercussions of criticising anything to do with Israel and its people. The cry, “you’re being anti-Semitic” has for too long allowed them to defend the indefensible.
I’m with weezer 316 when he advocates the, “sooner Islam, Christianity and every other faith disappears the better.”
The first premise of the Jewish peoples’ claim to the land of Israel is that God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham. There are no Title Deeds or Land Registry records to support this. However successive governments of Israel have used this as one of their arguments for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from their lands. It still happens today.
Between 1967 and 2000 Israel was subject of 138 UN resolutions. Most of those resolutions call upon Israel to comply with basic principles of international law embodied by the UN Charter. Many of them condemn actions taken by Israel and call upon Israel on more than one occasion to comply with previous resolutions that Israel ignored and continues to ignore to this day.
Israel does all this in the name of religion.
By reading the scriptures and studying them thoroughly,god gives us a clear message of true religion and false religions.For example many religions use symbols to worship over,the cross being(the principal symbol of christian religion).Nevertheless,true christians do not use the cross in worship.Why not?the important reason being jesus did not die on a cross.The bible was written in two languages greek being one,and hebrew being the other.The greek word generally translated(cross) is stau.ros.It basically means(an upright pale or stake).The companion bible points out:(stau.ros)never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle...there is nothing in the greek of the (new testement)even two imply two pieces of timber.In several texts,bible writers use another word for the instrument of jesus death.It is the greek word xy'lon.(acts 5:30: 10:39, 13:29, galatians 3:13, 1peter 2:24) this word simply means timber or a stick,club,or tree.By studying the scriptures thoroughly and doing some research many other practices of false religion can be quite clearly seen.
Your first sentence discredits your thesis immediately; God didn't write the Bible, men did. To be able to judge the credibility of the written word one must be sure of the aims and objectives of the author/s. You might want to read, 'In Pursuit of History' by John Tosh.
The Drunken Duck
03-Apr-11, 08:42
I went agonstic many years ago, this thread is perfect proof of why. I believe that if someone wants to believe in something then I dont have the right to tell them not to, just like they dont have the right to tell me I should. But you have to wonder when you look at the incident mentioned in the first post on this thread not at what religion is but the effect it has on people. I see no difference in Christianity and Scientology, both are passionately followed by people who, despite having zero proof of its existence, talk like it is an actual thing. Yet Scientology is regarded as a cult and Christianity is not. If I decided that the world was created by a large chicken called Gerald and his evil badger nemesis called Cedric the Third, and we should all abide by the rules Gerald put down lest Cedric take our souls to a place he lives in for punishment, no doubt I would be called bonkers and eventually find myself eating soft food in a padded room.
Look at the followers of Islam and their "Ours is a religion of peace, but say anything about it we dont like and we'll kill you" act. Or Chrstians and their belief that the ghost of a dead joiner will condemn me to Hell for being naughty, a Hell that exsists apparently because a talking snake convinced a woman to eat an apple she shouldnt have. There is a naughty euphimism in there I am sure of it.
Religion ?? .. believe if you want to. But I think you're all nuts.
I know many instances when personal belief has rescued people from lives that would otherwise have been worthless. Just as an instance take Alcoholics Anonymous. Helpless drunks suddenly get a helping hand and before long families are restored to sanity, husbands to wives and mothers to children. Those people were helpless before but suddenly a power comes into their lives and the boozing stops. What's going on there?
Belief is a very powerful elixer. Once the blue touch paper is lit, look out. :eek:
Bobinovich
03-Apr-11, 10:18
If I decided that the world was created by a large chicken called Gerald and his evil badger nemesis called Cedric the Third, and we should all abide by the rules Gerald put down lest Cedric take our souls to a place he lives in for punishment, no doubt I would be called bonkers and eventually find myself eating soft food in a padded room.
Praying to a chicken makes a lot of sense and I am aware that badgers have an evil streak (lol), and this padded room sounds like just the ticket, so, O masterful one, where do I sign up :D?
The Drunken Duck
03-Apr-11, 10:25
Praying to a chicken makes a lot of sense and I am aware that badgers have an evil streak (lol), and this padded room sounds like just the ticket, so, O masterful one, where do I sign up :D?
Your nearest KFC on the second Thursday of the month at 6pm. Bring me £500, a mop, a Sky remote and a large cardboard cut out of Superman. All will be explained later.
God didn't actually write the bible....man did. So no matter how it translates, in whatever language, it is still a man written document, therefore proves nothing.
I totally respect your views and your religion, and have also studied world religions, but it should be a personal thing, and not something to push at people, who obviously don't hold the same views. It also doesn't mean that people who don't believe as you do are ignorant or stupid.
Although i respect your views and opinion,i would have to disagree.The scriptures were inspired by god.A businessman might have a secretary write a letter.That letter contains the businessmans thoughts and instructions.Hence,it is realy his letter,not the secetarys.In the same way,the scriptures contains gods message,not that of the men who wrote it down.I am not trying to preach to anyone,however i do have the right to answer back when comments are being directed at me.I fully agree that just because people do not believe as i do,that does not make them stupid or ignorant.However when rude comments are being made by people who have no respect for my beliefs,then surely i have the right to defend myself.
By the by, I find it rather tragically ironic that the moderators find posts condemning religion entirely acceptable and yet, as someone mentioned earlier, come down like a ton of bricks about potential racial issues.
I don't think it's ironic at all.
Religion is a viewpoint, nothing more. People should be free to discuss or condemn viewpoints as they see fit.
Race is not a viewpoint. It is something we are born with and cannot change.
Completely separate issues deserving of completely separate rules and standards.
If you want proof of what Religion does to the World you have to look no further than Ireland!!!!
C3....:roll::eek:
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 12:17
I think, when you accept that organised religion is a man made institution, it is open to corruption as all institutions (not only religion!) are. For the most part religious people are very tolerant of other people - you would be absolutely out of order to suggest otherwise. Whilst any loss of life is tragic, and intentional destruction of life (ie murder) is deplorable, one has to question why the burning of the Qur'an was allowed to happen in the first place. It seems to me that freedom of speech and expression is taken and warped to allow people of one group to antagonise and offend people of another. If people obeyed the law on freedom of expression then none of this would happen, as toleration of creed and race are a part of that Act.
By the by, I find it rather tragically ironic that the moderators find posts condemning religion entirely acceptable and yet, as someone mentioned earlier, come down like a ton of bricks about potential racial issues.
And be warned, Weezer, you tread a very dangerous line when you condemn the Jewish religion. The scars of WWII are very much present in the Semitic world.
Do me a favour and read a book or something. Ill criticise judiasm and every other religion, or even your belief in it if I feel like it. It, like all religions, is nonsense and stern warnings from clearly uninformed people who havent a clue about the concept of critical thinking isnt going to change it. And violence in the name of Judiasm, or any other religions name just proves the point at the start of the thread.
Now, having said why were people allowed to burn the koran, they are allowed because presumably they own the koran and are free to do as they wish with it. Perhaps you advocate returning to a point where they should be burned at the stake for such an at?
And to state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer
OK, I sincerely apologise for "shouting" in my previous post and also would like to say sorry if my saying that "God is in our Lives" upset/annoyed/disagreed with anyone.
I appreciate that my beliefs are, just that, mine; but there are many others who also believe them.
I'd also like to say that I do not retract my bit about "God is in our lives"........He is actually, but whether you decide to accept Him, is, as has been pointed out, entirely up to the individual......
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 12:36
By reading the scriptures and studying them thoroughly,god gives us a clear message of true religion and false religions.For example many religions use symbols to worship over,the cross being(the principal symbol of christian religion).Nevertheless,true christians do not use the cross in worship.Why not?the important reason being jesus did not die on a cross.The bible was written in two languages greek being one,and hebrew being the other.The greek word generally translated(cross) is stau.ros.It basically means(an upright pale or stake).The companion bible points out:(stau.ros)never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle...there is nothing in the greek of the (new testement)even two imply two pieces of timber.In several texts,bible writers use another word for the instrument of jesus death.It is the greek word xy'lon.(acts 5:30: 10:39, 13:29, galatians 3:13, 1peter 2:24) this word simply means timber or a stick,club,or tree.By studying the scriptures thoroughly and doing some research many other practices of false religion can be quite clearly seen.
What!? What practices of false religion? Can you list these practices please and were they occur in their respective religions?
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 12:40
OK, I sincerely apologise for "shouting" in my previous post and also would like to say sorry if my saying that "God is in our Lives" upset/annoyed/disagreed with anyone.
I appreciate that my beliefs are, just that, mine; but there are many others who also believe them.
I'd also like to say that I do not retract my bit about "God is in our lives"........He is actually, but whether you decide to accept Him, is, as has been pointed out, entirely up to the individual......
No again, your off on one. He isnt in my life. end of story. And the fact alot of other people "believe" what you do doesn't make it true! Id rather like to say that delusion is in your life but that would probably be a bit far. its probably indoctrination from a young age to accept without question.
No again, your off on one. He isnt in my life. end of story. And the fact alot of other people "believe" what you do doesn't make it true! Id rather like to say that delusion is in your life but that would probably be a bit far. its probably indoctrination from a young age to accept without question.
You actually make me smile weezer 316 ! ;)
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 12:45
You actually make me smile weezer 316 ! ;) Id rather make you think for yourself. Any chance you could answer the points I raised 3 posts back? for the record here it is again:
And to state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 13:09
To explain what you have asked,would take me far to long.However i will say, your ignorance shines through.Lol! Is it because you can't explain why Satan rules the world or because you don't know? Either way, calling me ignorant because you can't explain something simply, or are too lazy to do it doesn't reflect very well on you.
I'm used to being called ignorant by militant atheists who don't understand what I'm saying, but this is the first time I've been lashed out at by someone who thinks Satan rules the world.
Come on fudge, try to explain what you believe so that we may understand why you believe it.
Lol! Is it because you can't explain why Satan rules the world or because you don't know? Either way, calling me ignorant because you can't explain something simply, or are too lazy to do it doesn't reflect very well on you.
I'm used to being called ignorant by militant atheists who don't understand what I'm saying, but this is the first time I've been lashed out at by someone who thinks Satan rules the world.
Come on fudge, try to explain what you believe so that we may understand why you believe it.
I am an Atheist. I am neither ignorant or militant.
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 13:17
I am an Atheist. I am neither ignorant or militant.That's good to hear. I was complaining about militant atheists, not polite atheists like you.
That's good to hear. I was complaining about miltant atheists, not polite atheists like you.
Thats OK then. ;) :) [lol]
If you want proof of what Religion does to the World you have to look no further than Ireland!!!!
C3....:roll::eek:
The divisions in Ireland used religion as an excuse to re-enforce division to the benefit of England. Politics and dominion. Wealth and power. Religion is just the screen.
The divisions in Ireland used religion as an excuse to re-enforce division to the benefit of England. Politics and dominion. Wealth and power. Religion is just the screen.
Never a truer word spoken.
It's the same in the west of Scotland.
Religion gives those involved more "clout" than they would have if the real issues were foremost.
The divisions in Ireland used religion as an excuse to re-enforce division to the benefit of England. Politics and dominion. Wealth and power. Religion is just the screen.
In the name of religion, then.
But there is still a hell of a lot of it, going on.
Id rather make you think for yourself. Any chance you could answer the points I raised 3 posts back? for the record here it is again:
And to state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer
I found no reason for anyone to question cherokee's post, it was for me a simple statement of a person at peace with themselves and their life and no wish or need to argue with anyone. My life is the richer for reading this post.
I think for myself Wheezer but do you, you ask so many questions of others but is your mind open to the answers. You never accept that others might be right about anything.... Why? Why do you continue to blame religion and not the people for the wrongs of the world ? I would like your answers to both questions and that does not mean you asking me a question in return and I will retain an open mind to your reply.
In the name of religion, then.
But there is still a hell of a lot of it, going on.
Religion has been used time and again to justify the actions of people who rarely have anything to do with the religion they say they belong to. To encourage the fallacy that religion is to blame enables those who hide behind the word religion not being held accountable as individuals.
OK, I sincerely apologise for "shouting" in my previous post and also would like to say sorry if my saying that "God is in our Lives" upset/annoyed/disagreed with anyone.
I appreciate that my beliefs are, just that, mine; but there are many others who also believe them.
I'd also like to say that I do not retract my bit about "God is in our lives"........He is actually, but whether you decide to accept Him, is, as has been pointed out, entirely up to the individual......
Hmmm, at first you say sorry for saying god is in 'our' lives, and then you say you do not retract your bit about' god is in our lives'.. you are still telling me 'he is' in my life but it's up to me to decide - bit autocratic that isn't it..
That's like me telling you that god is NOT in your life, but it's up to the individual.. Eh? there's no way on earth I'd say that, I would not use my beliefs or lack of 'em to insinuate that you're wrong - and I see that you have no right either - surely you are being intolerant, intimating I'm wrong to believe? That's a very slippery slope, and incidentally it was mentioned by another poster that people appear to be so 'hateful' in their postings - total rot, absolutely - because I do not share their faith, does not mean I am a hateful person..
In the name of religion, then.
But there is still a hell of a lot of it, going on.
The point is that if religion were magically banished, there would be other excuses to justify atrocities commited in the search for power, wealth and dominance.
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 13:48
I found no reason for anyone to question cherokee's post, it was for me a simple statement of a person at peace with themselves and their life and no wish or need to argue with anyone. My life is the richer for reading this post.
I think for myself Wheezer but do you, you ask so many questions of others but is your mind open to the answers. You never accept that others might be right about anything.... Why? Why do you continue to blame religion and not the people for the wrongs of the world ? I would like your answers to both questions and that does not mean you asking me a question in return and I will retain an open mind to your reply.
I clearly have an open mind. I have said on numerous occasions I would believe in god if there was evidence of his existence. Believers on the other hand refuse to accept the lack of evidence of his existance and point to the world around us, which proves nothing. How you ascertain I never accept others might be right in incredible seeing as I clearly advocate critical thinking and adjusting your viewpoint to suit the evidence over blind faith. Id say its the lack of an answer for the question posed that makes a person say the person posing the qeustions has a closed mind, and is a common religious tactic.
Furthermore, I dont blame religion for the wrongs of the world. I blame it for the wrongs were faith is concerned. Again you have taken 2 and 2 and made 10. I say it has no place in the 21st century with its anarchic viewpoints. It has noting to do with say, MPs expenses.......
Anyway, you fancy answering my last question? The abiiity of thiests to duck questions is incredible. Infact I commend them on it. If it was an MP we would call them devious
David Banks
03-Apr-11, 13:55
When there is a bunch of homo sapiens living together, is it inevitable that they will come up with some sort of "system" which turns into a "religion"?
Might some people see its use as for the betterment of their society?
Might some people see it as a useful tool to wield power over others?
Might some people see it as making them better than others?
It seems to me that all such manufactured organisations have a mix of good and not-so-good people in them.
I am mostly disappointed (maybe I need a stronger word) by the people higher-up in religions. Why do many politicians feel it necessary to display some level of adherence to a religion to make themselves acceptable to a part of their electorate?
Here - and trying hard not to be cynical - I think of Tony Blair, Pierre Trudeau, Steven Harper, George W. Bush, Barak Obama, and many others.
And you guys will be getting a good dose of religion soon with the upcoming royal wedding.
OK, I'm an old cynic.
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 13:59
I am mostly disappointed (maybe I need a stronger word) by the people higher-up in religions. Why do many politicians feel it necessary to display some level of adherence to a religion to make themselves acceptable to a part of their electorate?
Here - and trying hard not to be cynical - I think of Tony Blair, Pierre Trudeau, Steven Harper, George W. Bush, Barak Obama, and many others.
You are very, very wrong about Tony Blair. He is a devout Christian and very evangelical, but he tried to keep it hidden during his years in power in order to make himself acceptable to part of the electorate. His behaviour in justifying the war in Iraq is equally evangelical.
I think GW is also evangelical, but he didn't keep it hidden. I don't know about the others.
The Tony Blair Faith Foundation (http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/)
Religion has been used time and again to justify the actions of people who rarely have anything to do with the religion they say they belong to. To encourage the fallacy that religion is to blame enables those who hide behind the word religion not being held accountable as individuals.
Millions of people must lie about their faith then.
The point is that if religion were magically banished, there would be other excuses to justify atrocities commited in the search for power, wealth and dominance.
I say the same to you, as i have to Kells above.
John Little
03-Apr-11, 14:15
Interesting article;
"As an Oxford undergraduate in the early 19th century, Percy Bysshe Shelley developed an argument for the non-existence of God. He entitled it The Necessity of Atheism, and 2011 is the bicentenary of his being expelled from the university for printing it.
The argument itself is simple. If you have seen or heard God, then you must believe in God. If you haven't, then the only possible reasons to believe in God are reasonable argument or the testimony of others. The main argument given for believing in a deity – that the universe must have had a first cause – is not persuasive because there is no reason to believe either that the universe must have had a first cause or that this cause, if it existed, was a deity. The testimony of others – a third-rate source of knowledge in any case – is invariably contrary to reason. This is not least because it reports God as commanding belief, which would be irrational of God, given that belief is involuntary and not an act of will. So there is no reason to believe in God.
It is not a particularly shocking argument these days, but remembering this Shelley anniversary is important for other reasons.
Atheists today are too often castigated as materialistic calculators whose lack of spirituality sucks their universe empty of all beauty. Remembering Shelley's atheism gives us an opportunity to counter this stereotype and to reflect on the aesthetic of enchantment with which a non-theistic world-view can be associated. The works of Shelley join the novels, poems, songs, sculptures, paintings, architecture and plays of generations of godless artists in exposing the straw man of the desiccated rationalist for what it is, and showcasing a humanist vision of life.
More timely is a remembrance of the social and political consequences of Shelley's argument. In The Necessity of Atheism he reminds us of the mistake that people make when they think that "belief is an act of volition, in consequence of which it may be regulated by the mind" and the way that "continuing this mistake they have attached a degree of criminality to disbelief of which in its nature it is incapable". We cannot pillory someone for their disbelief – it is not an area in which choice operates.
Today in Britain, non-religious people are not thrown out of universities because they don't believe in God, but in other parts of the world many suffer this fate – and worse. There are still places where it is illegal to declare yourself as non-religious on your identity papers or official records.
One of the most upsetting stories I was ever told was by a young humanist from Saudi Arabia who grew up so frightened of what would happen if he spoke out loud about his beliefs to another person that the only outlet for his thoughts was to go on long walks away from all people, and speak his mind only to the air. In fact, he never spoke to another human being about his most fundamental beliefs until coming to Britain in his late 20s, and experiencing then for the first time what those of us who live in freedom take for granted: the joyful dynamic of testing and developing our own ideas in conversation and dialogue with others.
In this country the blasphemy laws have been abolished, but elsewhere our fellow men and women face death for speaking and thinking freely. Remembering Shelley – so eloquent himself on the subject of human solidarity – provides a dynamic call for us to address these injustices internationally."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/02/shelley-the-necessity-of-atheism
He is actually, but whether you decide to accept Him, is, as has been pointed out, entirely up to the individual......
No he isn't, you're a looney, I thought we had established that?
What you are saying is; My beliefs are my beliefs and everyone else is wrong :roll:
No he isn't, you're a looney, I thought we had established that?
What you are saying is; My beliefs are my beliefs and everyone else is wrong :roll:
How can you be so utterly disgusting as to call me a "looney"[evil]
Do you know me, do you know my lifestyle, do you know anything about me; my advice to you is......talk about me when you do.... til' then I'd appreciate you keep your ignorant comments to yourself - I have never at any point said anything about those who choose their own religion or not ??[evil]
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 16:07
How can you be so utterly disgusting as to call me a "looney"[evil]
Do you know me, do you know my lifestyle, do you know anything about me; my advice to you is......talk about me when you do.... til' then I'd appreciate you keep your ignorant comments to yourself - I have never at any point said anything about those who choose their own religion or not ??[evil]
Do you fancy answering the question I have asked you 3 times now? For someone so steeped in religious manners and their overarching goodness, I assume ignoring someone completely isnt frowned upon....
I clearly have an open mind.
That is only your opinion, not a fact.
I have said on numerous occasions I would believe in god if there was evidence of his existence.
So you do not believe in god, so what, and why expect others to give you evidence.
Believers on the other hand refuse to accept the lack of evidence of his existance and point to the world around us, which proves nothing.
They have a faith that comes from within, no way to explain faith but a great asset in life for many people and those around them and why should you to expect anyone to believe just because you say they should.
How you ascertain I never accept others might be right in incredible seeing as I clearly advocate critical thinking and adjusting your viewpoint to suit the evidence over blind faith.
No comment on this as I fail to understnad the sentence.
Id say its the lack of an answer for the question posed that makes a person say the person posing the qeustions has a closed mind, and is a common religious tactic.
Yes I agree, dodging round an isssue in an effort to evade answering does show a closed mind, but cannot say I considered it a common religious tactic.
Furthermore, I dont blame religion for the wrongs of the world. I blame it for the wrongs were faith is concerned.
Take another read at the heading of this thread then where you certianly imply that religion is to blame for everything lol no mention of faith and again what do you mean when you say faith. do you mena faith in god or faith in religion, two different things
Again you have taken 2 and 2 and made 10.
Nope I have not added anything up and certianly not 'again' lol a common attempt to deflect reasoned argument wheezer but it did amuse me.
I say it has no place in the 21st century with its anarchic viewpoints. It has noting to do with say, MPs expenses.......
Fair enough, you have every right to say what you believe but you saying it does not make it so. Diverging a little with MP expenses I think.lol
Anyway, you fancy answering my last question? The abiiity of thiests to duck questions is incredible. Infact I commend them on it. If it was an MP we would call them devious#
No I do not fancy answering your question about thiests, I am still waiting for you to answer my questions.
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 16:12
Interesting article;
"As an Oxford undergraduate in the early 19th century, Percy Bysshe Shelley developed an argument for the non-existence of God. He entitled it The Necessity of Atheism, and 2011 is the bicentenary of his being expelled from the university for printing it.
The argument itself is simple. If you have seen or heard God, then you must believe in God. If you haven't, then the only possible reasons to believe in God are reasonable argument or the testimony of others. The main argument given for believing in a deity – that the universe must have had a first cause – is not persuasive because there is no reason to believe either that the universe must have had a first cause or that this cause, if it existed, was a deity. The testimony of others – a third-rate source of knowledge in any case – is invariably contrary to reason. This is not least because it reports God as commanding belief, which would be irrational of God, given that belief is involuntary and not an act of will. So there is no reason to believe in God.
It is not a particularly shocking argument these days, but remembering this Shelley anniversary is important for other reasons.
Atheists today are too often castigated as materialistic calculators whose lack of spirituality sucks their universe empty of all beauty. Remembering Shelley's atheism gives us an opportunity to counter this stereotype and to reflect on the aesthetic of enchantment with which a non-theistic world-view can be associated. The works of Shelley join the novels, poems, songs, sculptures, paintings, architecture and plays of generations of godless artists in exposing the straw man of the desiccated rationalist for what it is, and showcasing a humanist vision of life.
More timely is a remembrance of the social and political consequences of Shelley's argument. In The Necessity of Atheism he reminds us of the mistake that people make when they think that "belief is an act of volition, in consequence of which it may be regulated by the mind" and the way that "continuing this mistake they have attached a degree of criminality to disbelief of which in its nature it is incapable". We cannot pillory someone for their disbelief – it is not an area in which choice operates.
Today in Britain, non-religious people are not thrown out of universities because they don't believe in God, but in other parts of the world many suffer this fate – and worse. There are still places where it is illegal to declare yourself as non-religious on your identity papers or official records.
One of the most upsetting stories I was ever told was by a young humanist from Saudi Arabia who grew up so frightened of what would happen if he spoke out loud about his beliefs to another person that the only outlet for his thoughts was to go on long walks away from all people, and speak his mind only to the air. In fact, he never spoke to another human being about his most fundamental beliefs until coming to Britain in his late 20s, and experiencing then for the first time what those of us who live in freedom take for granted: the joyful dynamic of testing and developing our own ideas in conversation and dialogue with others.
In this country the blasphemy laws have been abolished, but elsewhere our fellow men and women face death for speaking and thinking freely. Remembering Shelley – so eloquent himself on the subject of human solidarity – provides a dynamic call for us to address these injustices internationally."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/02/shelley-the-necessity-of-atheism Interesting article indeed. Dont expect a retort from a theist though
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 16:16
Kelis,
Post 79. I think i actually gave you 2 answers. Are you a christian/muslim/Jew?
OK, I sincerely apologise for "shouting" in my previous post and also would like to say sorry if my saying that "God is in our Lives" upset/annoyed/disagreed with anyone.
I appreciate that my beliefs are, just that, mine; but there are many others who also believe them.
I'd also like to say that I do not retract my bit about "God is in our lives"........He is actually, but whether you decide to accept Him, is, as has been pointed out, entirely up to the individual......
Nice that you can say sorry for upsetting anyone but sometimes we all shout to be heard and I am sure that there are no sensitive souls around here. lol
Good to read about someone who is happy and content with life and their beliefs and does not need to try and push them onto others. This post certianly brightened my day thank you.
How can you be so utterly disgusting as to call me a "looney"[evil]
[/I] ??[evil]
Can you reply to my question please; weezer 316 ?
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 16:28
Take another read at the heading of this thread then where you certianly imply that religion is to blame for everything lol no mention of faith and again what do you mean when you say faith. do you mena faith in god or faith in religion, two different thing
I read alot of nonsense on here, and your last post is full of it, but this takes the biscuit! Here is my first post in its entirety just so we can be clear:
"Totally absurd. People beheaded and mass attacks over someone burning a book, and a work of fiction at that. Quite how anyone who advocates religious belief can explain this I would like to see. And before you blame "extremists" remember that fundamentalists cant exist without religion underpinning it......
Sooner Islam, Christianity and every other faith disappears the better. Would think its the 10th century and not the 21st with this nonsense. "
Hence the reason I mention Mp expenses. religion wasnt to blame incase it was far to subtle a reference. I aint bl;aming everything in the world on religion! I think If I was I would say something like "everything is religions fault" or something similar.
Now, any chance of an asnwer? For the record here is the question for the 4th time.....
To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 16:29
Can you reply to my question please; weezer 316 ?
Certainly. I didnt call you a looney, ducati did. Now can you asnwer mine, beow for the 5th time:
To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer
Kelis,
Post 79. I think i actually gave you 2 answers. Are you a christian/muslim/Jew?
Think again wheezer and then read my reply again, you did not answer the questions I asked. You may think you have but you did not do so, or I may have misread your answer please highlight the answers in question. Why do you ask for information that has nothing to do with you or the discussion? and that is an easy one for you to answer.
Take another read at the heading of this thread then where you certianly imply that religion is to blame for everything lol no mention of faith and again what do you mean when you say faith. do you mena faith in god or faith in religion, two different thing
I read alot of nonsense on here, and your last post is full of it, but this takes the biscuit! Here is my first post in its entirety just so we can be clear:
"Totally absurd. People beheaded and mass attacks over someone burning a book, and a work of fiction at that. Quite how anyone who advocates religious belief can explain this I would like to see. And before you blame "extremists" remember that fundamentalists cant exist without religion underpinning it......
Sooner Islam, Christianity and every other faith disappears the better. Would think its the 10th century and not the 21st with this nonsense. "
Hence the reason I mention Mp expenses. religion wasnt to blame incase it was far to subtle a reference. I aint bl;aming everything in the world on religion! I think If I was I would say something like "everything is religions fault" or something similar.
Now, any chance of an asnwer? For the record here is the question for the 4th time.....
To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer
You write a lot of nonsense as well wheezer lol and you are beginning to lose the plot you have not asked me any question four times so what is all this drivel about answering your questions about.
ahhh now I see, you are not answering my questions so decide to say I am doing the same thing, lol Nice one but not working lol
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 16:50
Think again wheezer and then read my reply again, you did not answer the questions I asked. You may think you have but you did not do so, or I may have misread your answer please highlight the answers in question. Why do you ask for information that has nothing to do with you or the discussion? and that is an easy one for you to answer.
Post 79 again. i asnwer it, infact Im ceratin I answered a similar question earlier in the thread. Id guess you dont understand what I have said.
The reason I asked is quite simply I wanted to see where you fell relating to the original link showing beheading's in afganhistan over some knucklehead burning a koran. I then tried again to get whether religious people back such actions by ASKING THE SAME QUESTION 5 TIMES in some sort of forlorn attempt to get an answer. None has been forthcoming. I can only surmise that anyone who believes in religion cant answer it without either appearing as an absolute maniac or appearing to undermine the very religion they hold dear.
So, for the 6th time, can you please please please please answer my question, which is below again. I literally beg of you!
"To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer "
Shabbychic
03-Apr-11, 17:00
Oh, for goodness sake weezer, will you give it a rest. You do this all the time on threads. You harass people about giving you an answer. What right do you have to demand anything on here, especially when all you will do is turn it into more demands for more answers? If people want to reply to you, they will. If they don't, then that is their right. This method you have adopted, does not make you look smart or intelligent, just immature and foolish.
How can you be so utterly disgusting as to call me a "looney"[evil]
Do you know me, do you know my lifestyle, do you know anything about me; my advice to you is......talk about me when you do.... til' then I'd appreciate you keep your ignorant comments to yourself - I have never at any point said anything about those who choose their own religion or not ??[evil]
I really don't care. People that try to preach really, really irritate me.
This is like Sunday afternoon at the Colosseum. The poor Christians are fighting back. Lions are not what they used to be. :lol:
It's Ground Hogg Day.:lol:
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 17:10
Oh, for goodness sake weezer, will you give it a rest. You do this all the time on threads. You harrass people about giving you an answer. What right do you have to demand anything on here, especially when all you will do is turn it into more demands for more answers? If people want to reply to you, they will. If they don't, then that is their right. This method you have adopted, does not make you look smart or intelligent, just immature and foolish.
Harrass? Gee whiz! I certaintly dont harras anyone! Infact id call it polite to answer a question when asked! You are right, they dont have to asnwer me, but Ill ask till the cows come home if I wish and I really couldnt care less if it comes accross as smart or as foolish. This isnt x-factor. And crucually, I do have a right to ask for an answer, just as much as anyone has the right not to answer.
Post 79 again. i asnwer it, infact Im ceratin I answered a similar question earlier in the thread. Id guess you dont understand what I have said.
The reason I asked is quite simply I wanted to see where you fell relating to the original link showing beheading's in afganhistan over some knucklehead burning a koran. I then tried again to get whether religious people back such actions by ASKING THE SAME QUESTION 5 TIMES in some sort of forlorn attempt to get an answer. None has been forthcoming. I can only surmise that anyone who believes in religion cant answer it without either appearing as an absolute maniac or appearing to undermine the very religion they hold dear.
So, for the 6th time, can you please please please please answer my question, which is below again. I literally beg of you!
"To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not? You can surely see what my next point is going to be if you answer that you dont support the actions above, so think carefully before you answer please, and I would dearly like an answer "
You have not answered my questions, I am very capable of reading and understanding what I read and again you have not answered my questions. Let me make this clear to you wheezer, you do not have the right to tell me to answer your questions, I appreciate that you are lacking in understanding and would suggest some study and reading rather than demanding others to supply you with your answers. By the way I do not require any answers from you but will instead refer to a more knowable source.
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 17:15
You have not answered my questions, I am very capable of reading and understanding what I read and again you have not answered my questions. Let me make this clear to you wheezer, you do not have the right to tell me to answer your questions, I appreciate that you are lacking in understanding and would suggest some study and reading rather than demanding others to supply you with your answers. By the way I do not require any answers from you but will instead refer to a more knowable source.
Lacking in understanding!! Im no genius but im no fool neither. State the questions again. Its only polite to answer them. When I do, can you answer my single solitary, simple question so that I may increase my understanding? Pretty please? with sugar on top??
Harrass? Gee whiz! I certaintly dont harras anyone! Infact id call it polite to answer a question when asked!
When it relates to the subject under discussion far enough but pity you do not answer questions.
You are right, they dont have to asnwer me,
I might tell you some things wheezer but others no way. You are a cheeky pup at times with what you ask next thing you will be wnating to know my age. ha .....no chance.
but Ill ask till the cows come home if I wish and I really couldnt care less if it comes accross as smart or as foolish.
Neither really.... just boring
This isnt x-factor.
Ah and I was putting on me best frock too.
And crucually, I do have a right to ask for an answer, just as much as anyone has the right not to answer.
Now we see the benifit of asking questions all the time, you can throw back quotes when the going gets tough.
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 17:26
Now we see the benifit of asking questions all the time, you can throw back quotes when the going gets tough.
Incredible ignorance, but I dont mind. Now can you restate your questions? Ill answer them all, I promise! Scouts honour!
Lacking in understanding!! Im no genius but im no fool neither
You are entitled to your opinion.
State the questions again.
If you are not a fool then you do not need me to read them to you, go read them for yourself.
Its only polite to answer them.
Not necessary but it might be interesting
When I do, can you answer my single solitary, simple question so that I may increase my understanding? Pretty please? with sugar on top??
I am no fool wheezer and I cannot stand men that grovel and I never commit until full disclosure is given; besides I don't care whether you increase your understanding or not.
Incredible ignorance, but I dont mind.AAAAhhh I have been incredibly ignorant, I read the quotes marking as being inserted rather than as part of the copy posting, so glad that you do not mind wheezer I would not like to see you upset.
Now can you restate your questions? Ill answer them all, I promise! Scouts honour!
Go read them for yourself and dont be so lazy..... You know what wheezer you are beginning to get amusing.....lol
If it's any consolation weezer and even though I think your an aggressive secularist, I think your quite right to stand your ground. Its bettter not to ask questions though. :lol:
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 17:36
I am no fool wheezer and I cannot stand men that grovel and I never commit until full disclosure is given; besides I don't care whether you increase your understanding or not.
You dont even know what questions you asked did you??? Incredible. Disclosure?? I aint a sex offender or something!
I think you should go ask a more "Knowable source"........although how much knowledge that last point says you have is debatable!
To conclude, I did answer them, you know I did (post 79) and hope I just say I didnt. I ask again, you then spout incomprehensible nonsense. And for the record I cant investigate it any further as the thing in question is your opinion! I cant get any further without your help can I!?
Basic stuff kelis, really basic stuff
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 17:39
If it's any consolation weezer and even though I think your an aggressive secularist, I think your quite right to stand your ground. Its bettter not to ask questions though. :lol:
I probabaly am!! Wait, did i just agree with someone else! I though that was so un-me!
Religion must be opposed at all turns. Its lunacy and promotes a multitude of phobias and ridiculous ideas that do real harm every day. But in that vain, people are free to believe what they want, and I would defend to the death your right to believe anything.
You dont even know what questions you asked did you??? Incredible. Disclosure?? I aint a sex offender or something!
I think you should go ask a more "Knowable source"........although how much knowledge that last point says you have is debatable!
To conclude, I did answer them, you know I did (post 79
) and hope I just say I didnt. I ask again, you then spout incomprehensible nonsense. And for the record I cant investigate it any further as the thing in question is your opinion! I cant get any further without your help can I!?
Basic stuff kelis, really basic stuff
Ok I can see you are having problems so I will help you out,here are the questions in red and even showing the questionn marks.
You never accept that others might be right about anything.... Why?
Why do you continue to blame religion and not the people for the wrongs of the world ?
You dont even know what questions you asked did you??? Incredible. Disclosure?? I aint a sex offender or something!
Calm down wheezer no need to bring sex into it and I am sure you are not a sex offender or such like. lol
I think you should go ask a more "Knowable source"........although how much knowledge that last point says you have is debatable!
Bet then that would make for another thread would it not.
To conclude, I did answer them, you know I did (post 79) and hope I just say I didnt. I ask again, you then spout incomprehensible nonsense. And for the record I cant investigate it any further as the thing in question is your opinion! I cant get any further without your help can I!?
Cam down I have helped you now, postedthe two simple questions for you again.
Basic stuff kelis, really basic stuff
Better to keep it basic when you are having problems following me, :Razz
I probabaly am!! Wait, did i just agree with someone else! I though that was so un-me!
Religion must be opposed at all turns. Its lunacy and promotes a multitude of phobias and ridiculous ideas that do real harm every day. But in that vain, people are free to believe what they want, and I would defend to the death your right to believe anything.
Ah well done weezer you have just answered my first question, and yip it was to un-you. lol Just goes ot show you can do it if you try hard enough.
The world would be worse off without religion. Itll be a bummer for those of us who dont believe it and it turns out to be true. I couldnt imagine a world without religion but the ideas becopming more attractive. God could solve it for us right now if he had any compassion and thats what Christians believe. God showed himself in Jesus and by believing the story in the bible he can be there at all times. And he can because Ive seen it in action in others. Allahs there too for Muslims and there are millions of good muslims as well as good Christians. its a cool idea but it needs a lot of doubt as well as a lot of faith.
It's dificult to talk about this subject without hackles getting raised so its little wonder theres wars over it.
The worlds better for religion but we need to learn how to use it. Its a tool.
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 18:13
You never accept that others might be right about anything.... Why?
How you ascertain I never accept others might be right in incredible seeing as I clearly advocate critical thinking and adjusting your viewpoint to suit the evidence over blind faith. By default that means I will change my viewpoint to match a.n.other when there is compelling evidence to do so.
Why do you continue to blame religion and not the people for the wrongs of the world ? [/QUOTE]
Furthermore, I dont blame religion for the wrongs of the world. I blame it for the wrongs were faith is concerned. Again you have taken 2 and 2 and made 10. I say it has no place in the 21st century with its anarchic viewpoints. It has noting to do with say, MPs expenses.......
Pretty clear? Now any chance of an answer from your good self? Question below:
To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not?
What!? What practices of false religion? Can you list these practices please and were they occur in their respective religions?
Many people believe that all religions are pleasing to god,but the bible does not teach that.It is not even enough just to claim to be a christian.Jesus said:not everyone saying to me,lord,lord,will enter into the kingdom of the heavens,but the one doing the will of my father who is in the heavens will.To have gods approval,we must learn what god requires of us and do it.Jesus called those who do not do gods will(workers of lawlessness).(matthew 7:21-23)Therefore false religion has no real vaiue.True religion leads to everlasting life.False religion leads to destruction.Jesus said:go in through the narrow gate,because broad and spacious is the road leading off in to destruction,and many are the ones going in through it,whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life,and few are the ones finding it.(matthew 7:13,14).Those who worship the true god,base their teaching on the bible.Those who worship the true god,worship only jehovah and make his name known.Those who worship the true god,show genuine love for one another.Those who worship the true god,accept jesus as gods means of salvation.Those who worship the true god,are no part of the world.Those who worship the true god,preach gods kingdom as mans only hope.Godly love overcomes racial,social,and national barriers and draws people together in an unbreakable bond of true brotherhood.Members of false religions do not have such a loving brotherhood.How do we know that?They kill one another because of national or ethnic differences.True christians do not take up weapons to kill their christian brothers or anyone else.The bible states:the children of god and the children of the devil are evident by this fact:everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with god,neither does he who does not love his brother.True worshipers are no part of the world.Jesus said:my kingdom is no part of this world.No matter what country they live in,true followers of jesus are subjects of his heavenly kingdom and thus maintain stirict neutrality in the world political affairs.They take no part in its conflicts.The bible shows that all the many forms of false religion are part of babylon the great.(revelation 17:5).That name calls to mind the ancient city of babylon,where false religion started up after the flood of noahs day.Many teachings and practices now common in false religion originated long ago in babylon.For example,the babylonians worshiped trinities,or triads,of gods.Today,the central doctrine of many religions is the trinity.But the bible clearly teaches that there is only one true god,and that jesus christ is his son.(john 17:3)The babylonians also believed that humans have an immortal soul that survives the body after death and can suffer in a place of torment.Today,belief in the immortal soul or spirit that can suffer in hell fire is taught by most religions.Since ancient babylonian worship spread throughout the earth,modern babylon the great can properly be identified as the world empire of false religion.And god has foretold that this empire of false religion will come to a sudden end.(revelation 18:8).I am not trying to preach to anyone,as i believe each individual has the right to their own belief.And religion should not be forced on anyone.However you asked me to comment, and this was the only way i could.
David Banks
03-Apr-11, 18:46
You are very, very wrong about Tony Blair. He is a devout Christian and very evangelical, but he tried to keep it hidden during his years in power in order to make himself acceptable to part of the electorate. His behaviour in justifying the war in Iraq is equally evangelical.
I think GW is also evangelical, but he didn't keep it hidden. I don't know about the others.
The Tony Blair Faith Foundation (http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/)
Didn't he announce a change in his beliefs after stepping down as prime minister - even though it had occurred some months or years previously.
If that does not display his cynical use of religion as a means to (his) ends, then I do not know what does.
onecalledk
03-Apr-11, 19:09
Many people believe that all religions are pleasing to god,but the bible does not teach that.It is not even enough just to claim to be a christian.Jesus said:not everyone saying to me,lord,lord,will enter into the kingdom of the heavens,but the one doing the will of my father who is in the heavens will.To have gods approval,we must learn what god requires of us and do it.Jesus called those who do not do gods will(workers of lawlessness).(matthew 7:21-23)Therefore false religion has no real vaiue.True religion leads to everlasting life.False religion leads to destruction.Jesus said:go in through the narrow gate,because broad and spacious is the road leading off in to destruction,and many are the ones going in through it,whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life,and few are the ones finding it.(matthew 7:13,14).Those who worship the true god,base their teaching on the bible.Those who worship the true god,worship only jehovah and make his name known.Those who worship the true god,show genuine love for one another.Those who worship the true god,accept jesus as gods means of salvation.Those who worship the true god,are no part of the world.Those who worship the true god,preach gods kingdom as mans only hope.Godly love overcomes racial,social,and national barriers and draws people together in an unbreakable bond of true brotherhood.Members of false religions do not have such a loving brotherhood.How do we know that?They kill one another because of national or ethnic differences.True christians do not take up weapons to kill their christian brothers or anyone else.The bible states:the children of god and the children of the devil are evident by this fact:everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with god,neither does he who does not love his brother.True worshipers are no part of the world.Jesus said:my kingdom is no part of this world.No matter what country they live in,true followers of jesus are subjects of his heavenly kingdom and thus maintain stirict neutrality in the world political affairs.They take no part in its conflicts.The bible shows that all the many forms of false religion are part of babylon the great.(revelation 17:5).That name calls to mind the ancient city of babylon,where false religion started up after the flood of noahs day.Many teachings and practices now common in false religion originated long ago in babylon.For example,the babylonians worshiped trinities,or triads,of gods.Today,the central doctrine of many religions is the trinity.But the bible clearly teaches that there is only one true god,and that jesus christ is his son.(john 17:3)The babylonians also believed that humans have an immortal soul that survives the body after death and can suffer in a place of torment.Today,belief in the immortal soul or spirit that can suffer in hell fire is taught by most religions.Since ancient babylonian worship spread throughout the earth,modern babylon the great can properly be identified as the world empire of false religion.And god has foretold that this empire of false religion will come to a sudden end.(revelation 18:8).I am not trying to preach to anyone,as i believe each individual has the right to their own belief.And religion should not be forced on anyone.However you asked me to comment, and this was the only way i could.
Every church has its own minister who interprets the words in the bible differently. If all christians claim there god as the one true god then who is correct? The passages above can be read a number of ways. You could read that the words that state no true christian would ever bear arms mean that any true christian would never become a soldier and go to war? Does that then mean that you cannot be a christian soldier?????
The words above all point to ONE true god but its people interpretation of what a "true god" is that divides nations. If there was only one true god why are there so many different branches of christianity? Why have the free church, the anglican church etc etc. They all speak from the same bible do they not but the words they use are interpreted differently?
I ask all these questions not to put you down but to genuinely ask for answers. I went to church every sunday up until my father died. I was 13yrs old. I ask many, many questions of the church and all I got were riddles, not answers. The minister could not answer the questions of a bereaved 13yr old. In the few years preceding my fathers death I watched as the congretation of the church I attend diminished. The minister had retired and we got a new one, all fire and brimstone. Interpetation again ..... what one minister would explain and comfort with another damned you to hell with ........
It was then I questioned everything that I was taught up til that age, the church gave me no answers so I left ........
I have nothing against people who go to church, its their right to believe what they will but I have lost count of the people who judge me because I do not read a little book with a cross on it .....
K
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 19:27
Every church has its own minister who interprets the words in the bible differently. If all christians claim there god as the one true god then who is correct? The passages above can be read a number of ways. You could read that the words that state no true christian would ever bear arms mean that any true christian would never become a soldier and go to war? Does that then mean that you cannot be a christian soldier?????
The words above all point to ONE true god but its people interpretation of what a "true god" is that divides nations. If there was only one true god why are there so many different branches of christianity? Why have the free church, the anglican church etc etc. They all speak from the same bible do they not but the words they use are interpreted differently?
I ask all these questions not to put you down but to genuinely ask for answers. I went to church every sunday up until my father died. I was 13yrs old. I ask many, many questions of the church and all I got were riddles, not answers. The minister could not answer the questions of a bereaved 13yr old. In the few years preceding my fathers death I watched as the congretation of the church I attend diminished. The minister had retired and we got a new one, all fire and brimstone. Interpetation again ..... what one minister would explain and comfort with another damned you to hell with ........
It was then I questioned everything that I was taught up til that age, the church gave me no answers so I left ........
I have nothing against people who go to church, its their right to believe what they will but I have lost count of the people who judge me because I do not read a little book with a cross on it .....
K
Heartfelt point. I think your line that you got riddles instead of answers is a very pertinent point christians should ask themselves every day, is there an answer in religion and what is it? Im sure more would follow you out of the church if they did
You never accept that others might be right about anything.... Why?
How you ascertain I never accept others might be right in incredible seeing as I clearly advocate critical thinking and adjusting your viewpoint to suit the evidence over blind faith. By default that means I will change my viewpoint to match a.n.other when there is compelling evidence to do so.
I did not understand this sentence the first time I read it and it remains wordy and obscure in it's meaning. You have managed to answer this clearly on another posts now so not a problem.
Why do you continue to blame religion and not the people for the wrongs of the world ?
Furthermore, I dont blame religion for the wrongs of the world. I blame it for the wrongs were faith is concerned. Again you have taken 2 and 2 and made 10. I say it has no place in the 21st century with its anarchic viewpoints. It has noting to do with say, MPs expenses.......
This is not an answer to my question, I asked why you continue to blame religion and not people. You blame religion on the heading and not people and certianly not faith and have learned nothing from all the varies posting today. what a pity.
The rest is just waffle and although amusing means nothing and certianly not telling me how I think or add even. lol
Pretty clear?
Not clear at all but I have waded through the waffle to try and find out what you are saying. ,
Now any chance of an answer from your good self? Question below:
To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
To state that religious people are tolerant is in fact a generalized assumtion no surprise that it went unanswered. If you ask a specific question then you can expect a specific answer, leave out all the wordy stuff and your meaning will be clearer.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not?[/QUOTE]
A do not claim to be tolerant, I try, but often fail. The things you find in the bible I believe you read there but I never have and doubt that I ever will. My parents gave me a set of values as a child and later in life I formed my own values,are they based on the bible, some of them perhaps are. We live in a christian society so the values are in many ways inbred but I have formed my own values and nope the bible does not play a part in those. What does play a part for me is a firm believe in God as I understand him/her and that works well for me.
David Banks
03-Apr-11, 19:43
Heartfelt point. I think your line that you got riddles instead of answers is a very pertinent point christians should ask themselves every day, is there an answer in religion and what is it? Im sure more would follow you out of the church if they did
Someone said:
Philosophy has questions that may never be answered.
Religion has answers that may never be questioned.
Nope - this is what evil mankind does to religion. It doesn't matter what religion is being used as an excuse - it is the evil streak in mankind that is guilty of cruelty and murder. Look at the proportion of people that have religion and are actually good people. Trouble comes down to the scum that gravitate towards each other and think that they can achieve what evil has always filed to do - dominate the world. My personal view is that we should stay out of the middle east and let the murderous thugs kill each other off. Surely the civilised world can manage to do with the oil that can be found in the North Sea, the USA, Russia, etc and a total embargo placed around the Middle East and Africa - nothing in and nothing out. If they want to be killing savages let them get on with it!
The Music Monster
03-Apr-11, 20:10
My, my, hasn't this thread grown?! Unfortunately I've been busy off appreciating the fact that it is Mother's Day so haven't had time to gripe and try to dismantle other people's belief.
Thanks for the chuckles, Weezer!!! I particularly liked the bit where you told me to go and read something!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
I greatly doubt that you have read:
a)as much as me on this topic and
b)as balanced literature as I have
- but no problem, I won't dwell on it.
Either way, you gave me plenty to laugh at, and I am really grateful for that! Maybe when you're next reading your holy book, "The God Delusion" by Mr Dawkins, you'll take note of some of his grammar.
And yes, I do draw from the Bible for moral guidance - oh wait a minute, so does our constitution. Damn those pesky, religious people, eh?! They keep creeping in everywhere!!!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
That been said: http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-greet025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 20:25
Furthermore, I dont blame religion for the wrongs of the world. I blame it for the wrongs were faith is concerned. Again you have taken 2 and 2 and made 10. I say it has no place in the 21st century with its anarchic viewpoints. It has noting to do with say, MPs expenses.......
This is not an answer to my question, I asked why you continue to blame religion and not people. You blame religion on the heading and not people and certianly not faith and have learned nothing from all the varies posting today. what a pity.
The rest is just waffle and although amusing means nothing and certianly not telling me how I think or add even. lol
Pretty clear?
Not clear at all but I have waded through the waffle to try and find out what you are saying. ,
Now any chance of an answer from your good self? Question below:
To state that religious people are tolerant is, be default, a giant undermining of their whole belief. I raised this point in another thread but it went unanswered, so perhaps you can answer it here.
To state that religious people are tolerant is in fact a generalized assumtion no surprise that it went unanswered. If you ask a specific question then you can expect a specific answer, leave out all the wordy stuff and your meaning will be clearer.
Why, when the bible advocates racism, sexism, gang rape and actively attacking non believers while the church today is a homophobic organization, are you so "tolerant"? Do you believe the bible as a guide for your life of not?
A do not claim to be tolerant, I try, but often fail. The things you find in the bible I believe you read there but I never have and doubt that I ever will. My parents gave me a set of values as a child and later in life I formed my own values,are they based on the bible, some of them perhaps are. We live in a christian society so the values are in many ways inbred but I have formed my own values and nope the bible does not play a part in those. What does play a part for me is a firm believe in God as I understand him/her and that works well for me.[/QUOTE]
It is an answer to your first point. However, do dwell on such things as this when you have finally answered the seemingly unanswerable question would be criminal!
Now, firstly, thank you for you answer, and secondly, it shows perfectly well that our morals and values are drawn not from the bible (amazingly as some seem to think) but are present in even us mere mortals who do no believe in such nonsense.
The matter of if a god exists is another argument for another day, but I am glad we seem to agree that belief in the bible is incompatible with modern values, of which tolerance of other religions is one and which the bible clearly does not follow.
Lol! Is it because you can't explain why Satan rules the world or because you don't know? Either way, calling me ignorant because you can't explain something simply, or are too lazy to do it doesn't reflect very well on you.
I'm used to being called ignorant by militant atheists who don't understand what I'm saying, but this is the first time I've been lashed out at by someone who thinks Satan rules the world.
Come on fudge, try to explain what you believe so that we may understand why you believe it.
The bible says:woe for the earth and for the sea,because the devil has come down to you,having great anger,knowing he has a short period of time.(revelation 12:12).Satan is angry about being cast out of heaven and having just a short time left.In his anger he causes distress,or woe,on earth.The first book of the bible tells of an opposer of god who showed up in the garden of eden.He is described as the serpent,but he was not a mere animal.The last book of the bible identifies him as (the one called devil and satan,who is misleading the entire inhabited earth).Who made this devil,this satan?Put simply,one of the powerful spirit sons of god turned himself into the devil.How is this possible?Well,today a person who was once decent and honest may become a thief.How does that happen?The person may allow a wrong desire to develop in his heart.If he keeps thinking about it,that wrong desire may become very strong.Then if the opportunity presents itself,he may act upon the bad desire that he has been thinking about.This happened in the case of satan the devil.He heard god tell adam and eve to have children and to fill the earth with their offspring.Satan then thought,all these humans could worship me rather than god!So a wrong desire built up in his heart.Eventually,he took action to deceive eve by telling her lies about god(genesis 3:1-5).He thus became a (devil),which means,slanderer.At the same time,he became (satan),which means,opposer.When satan led adam and eve into sinning against god,he was really leading a rebellion.He was challenging gods way of ruling.In effect,satan was saying:god is a bad ruler.He tells lies and holds back good things from his subjects.Humans do not need to have god ruling over them.They can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad.And they would be better off under my rulership.Jehovahs perfect sense of justice would not allow him to put the rebels to death right away.He decided that time was needed to answer satans challenge, and to prove the devil a liar.So god was determined that he would permit humans to rule themselves for some time under satans influence.Jesus never doubted that satan is the ruler of this world.Satan once showed jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.Satan then promised jesus:all these things i will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.(matthew 4:8,9, luke 4:5,6)Would that offer have been a temptation to jesus if satan was not the ruler of these kingdoms?Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were satans.With each passing year,the world is becoming more and more dangerous.It is overrun with warring armies,dishonest politicians,hypocritical religious leaders,and hardened criminals.The world as a whole is beyond reform.The bible reveals that the time is near when god will eliminate the wicked world during his war of armageddon.This will make way for a righteous new world.(revelation 16:14-16).Jesus christ became king in heaven in the year1914.(daniel 7:13,14)soon after he received kingdom power,jesus took action.(War broke out in heaven),says the bible.Michael(another name for jesus)and his angels battled with the dragon(satan the devil,and the dragon and its angels battled).Satan and his wicked angels,the demons,lost that war and were cast out of heaven to the earth.Gods faithful spirit sons rejoiced that satan and his demons were gone.Humans,however,would experience no such joy.Instead,the bible foretold:woe for the earth ...because the devil has come down to you,having great anger,knowing he has a short period of time.(revelation 12:7,9,12).
Someone said:
Philosophy has questions that may never be answered.
Religion has answers that may never be questioned.
Great quote, and very fitting!
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 20:37
My, my, hasn't this thread grown?! Unfortunately I've been busy off appreciating the fact that it is Mother's Day so haven't had time to gripe and try to dismantle other people's belief.
Thanks for the chuckles, Weezer!!! I particularly liked the bit where you told me to go and read something!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
I greatly doubt that you have read:
a)as much as me on this topic and
b)as balanced literature as I have
- but no problem, I won't dwell on it.
Either way, you gave me plenty to laugh at, and I am really grateful for that! Maybe when you're next reading your holy book, "The God Delusion" by Mr Dawkins, you'll take note of some of his grammar.
And yes, I do draw from the Bible for moral guidance - oh wait a minute, so does our constitution. Damn those pesky, religious people, eh?! They keep creeping in everywhere!!!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
That been said: http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-greet025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
I'll certainly dwell on it! Again you make grandiose claims about you being better read based on what?? Nothing! You may or may not be, but to say the literature you read is balanced with regards to its belief in religion is nonsense! Be default faith is exactly that and based on objective criteria (such as that dirty word proof, something science is very good at discovering) it falls flat on its face. You know this as I dont believe for a second you are stupid so how on earth you can take a book on say the existance of god that says he exists and claim its balanced, or even that you are looking at it in a balanced way is utterly insane. And dont even try and pretend otherwise!!
Real hole you dug for yourself there! Or perhaps you can provide a ladder for yourself and point me to some of these pieces which are both balanced and objective, complete with the evidence to show these conclusions, that says god exists.
I literally wont be able to sleep until you respond to this.
Now, on your last point, I assume then that you fully back Pastor knicklehead burning a koran? The bible would appear to say this is morally just............and no, our constitution isnt based on the bible at all! Witness the inane mutternigs of Deuteronomy and fill me in on where they apply today!
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 20:38
Someone said:
Philosophy has questions that may never be answered.
Religion has answers that may never be questioned.
Great point! Who said that btw?
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 20:40
The bible says:woe for the earth and for the sea,because the devil has come down to you,having great anger,knowing he has a short period of time.(revelation 12:12).Satan is angry about being cast out of heaven and having just a short time left.In his anger he causes distress,or woe,on earth.The first book of the bible tells of an opposer of god who showed up in the garden of eden.He is described as the serpent,but he was not a mere animal.The last book of the bible identifies him as (the one called devil and satan,who is misleading the entire inhabited earth).Who made this devil,this satan?Put simply,one of the powerful spirit sons of god turned himself into the devil.How is this possible?Well,today a person who was once decent and honest may become a thief.How does that happen?The person may allow a wrong desire to develop in his heart.If he keeps thinking about it,that wrong desire may become very strong.Then if the opportunity presents itself,he may act upon the bad desire that he has been thinking about.This happened in the case of satan the devil.He heard god tell adam and eve to have children and to fill the earth with their offspring.Satan then thought,all these humans could worship me rather than god!So a wrong desire built up in his heart.Eventually,he took action to deceive eve by telling her lies about god(genesis 3:1-5).He thus became a (devil),which means,slanderer.At the same time,he became (satan),which means,opposer.When satan led adam and eve into sinning against god,he was really leading a rebellion.He was challenging gods way of ruling.In effect,satan was saying:god is a bad ruler.He tells lies and holds back good things from his subjects.Humans do not need to have god ruling over them.They can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad.And they would be better off under my rulership.Jehovahs perfect sense of justice would not allow him to put the rebels to death right away.He decided that time was needed to answer satans challenge, and to prove the devil a liar.So god was determined that he would permit humans to rule themselves for some time under satans influence.Jesus never doubted that satan is the ruler of this world.Satan once showed jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.Satan then promised jesus:all these things i will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.(matthew 4:8,9, luke 4:5,6)Would that offer have been a temptation to jesus if satan was not the ruler of these kingdoms?Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were satans.With each passing year,the world is becoming more and more dangerous.It is overrun with warring armies,dishonest politicians,hypocritical religious leaders,and hardened criminals.The world as a whole is beyond reform.The bible reveals that the time is near when god will eliminate the wicked world during his war of armageddon.This will make way for a righteous new world.(revelation 16:14-16).Jesus christ became king in heaven in the year1914.(daniel 7:13,14)soon after he received kingdom power,jesus took action.(War broke out in heaven),says the bible.Michael(another name for jesus)and his angels battled with the dragon(satan the devil,and the dragon and its angels battled).Satan and his wicked angels,the demons,lost that war and were cast out of heaven to the earth.Gods faithful spirit sons rejoiced that satan and his demons were gone.Humans,however,would experience no such joy.Instead,the bible foretold:woe for the earth ...because the devil has come down to you,having great anger,knowing he has a short period of time.(revelation 12:7,9,12).
Mate do yourself a favour and get a keyboard with a space bar or something. You could have made a world shattering point in there somewhere and I think most would have missed it
Mate do yourself a favour and get a keyboard with a space bar or something. You could have made a world shattering point in there somewhere and I think most would have missed it
Thats funny i'm reading it perfectly well on mine.And lets get one thing straight i'am not your mate!Now go and bother someone else, as i can't be bothered any more.If you choose not to believe,then that is your perogative,and i respect that,but you should have consideration for other peoples beliefs,and respect them also.It is called,good manners.I can see no reason for me to keep posting on this thread, because for some, their mind is firmly closed.So for the sake of arguement i will say good bye.
Mystical Potato Head
03-Apr-11, 21:59
Nope - this is what evil mankind does to religion. It doesn't matter what religion is being used as an excuse - it is the evil streak in mankind that is guilty of cruelty and murder. Look at the proportion of people that have religion and are actually good people. Trouble comes down to the scum that gravitate towards each other and think that they can achieve what evil has always filed to do - dominate the world. My personal view is that we should stay out of the middle east and let the murderous thugs kill each other off. Surely the civilised world can manage to do with the oil that can be found in the North Sea, the USA, Russia, etc and a total embargo placed around the Middle East and Africa - nothing in and nothing out. If they want to be killing savages let them get on with it!
The evil streak in mankind fuelled by extreme religious beliefs and intolerence of other "beliefs".As for the civilised world,well it has managed to act in a pretty uncivilised manner for quite a few centuries now,trying to kill each other off on a regular basis,infact the planets specialised subject appears to be tribal warfare and has been for centuries,plenty of killing savages outside the middle east.
Yes, there are a lot of good people who have religion,there's also a lot of good people who dont.
Great point! Who said that btw?
Anonymous; quoted in Dennett, Daniel C. (2006). Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon (1st ed. ed.). Viking Penguin. pp. p. 17. ISBN 0-670-03472-X.
weezer 316
03-Apr-11, 22:55
Thats funny i'm reading it perfectly well on mine.And lets get one thing straight i'am not your mate!Now go and bother someone else, as i can't be bothered any more.If you choose not to believe,then that is your perogative,and i respect that,but you should have consideration for other peoples beliefs,and respect them also.It is called,good manners.I can see no reason for me to keep posting on this thread, because for some, their mind is firmly closed.So for the sake of arguement i will say good bye.
Why do people who believe in god always go on about respect of their beliefs? I dont for a second question your right to believe what you want, I just question the beliefs themselves, which I am entitled to do, with no disrespect shown.
Really is a re-occuring theme on here. You must be able to see the difference there! And if you cant then id suggest you don read what I post as you are almost certainly going to take offense
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 22:57
The bible says:woe for the earth and for the sea,because the devil has come down to you,having great anger,knowing he has a short period of time.(revelation 12:12).Satan is angry about being cast out of heaven and having just a short time left.In his anger he causes distress,or woe,on earth.The first book of the bible tells of an opposer of god who showed up in the garden of eden.He is described as the serpent,but he was not a mere animal.The last book of the bible identifies him as (the one called devil and satan,who is misleading the entire inhabited earth).Who made this devil,this satan?Put simply,one of the powerful spirit sons of god turned himself into the devil.How is this possible?Well,today a person who was once decent and honest may become a thief.How does that happen?The person may allow a wrong desire to develop in his heart.If he keeps thinking about it,that wrong desire may become very strong.Then if the opportunity presents itself,he may act upon the bad desire that he has been thinking about.This happened in the case of satan the devil.He heard god tell adam and eve to have children and to fill the earth with their offspring.Satan then thought,all these humans could worship me rather than god!So a wrong desire built up in his heart.Eventually,he took action to deceive eve by telling her lies about god(genesis 3:1-5).He thus became a (devil),which means,slanderer.At the same time,he became (satan),which means,opposer.When satan led adam and eve into sinning against god,he was really leading a rebellion.He was challenging gods way of ruling.In effect,satan was saying:god is a bad ruler.He tells lies and holds back good things from his subjects.Humans do not need to have god ruling over them.They can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad.And they would be better off under my rulership.Jehovahs perfect sense of justice would not allow him to put the rebels to death right away.He decided that time was needed to answer satans challenge, and to prove the devil a liar.So god was determined that he would permit humans to rule themselves for some time under satans influence.Jesus never doubted that satan is the ruler of this world.Satan once showed jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.Satan then promised jesus:all these things i will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.(matthew 4:8,9, luke 4:5,6)Would that offer have been a temptation to jesus if satan was not the ruler of these kingdoms?Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were satans.With each passing year,the world is becoming more and more dangerous.It is overrun with warring armies,dishonest politicians,hypocritical religious leaders,and hardened criminals.The world as a whole is beyond reform.The bible reveals that the time is near when god will eliminate the wicked world during his war of armageddon.This will make way for a righteous new world.(revelation 16:14-16).Jesus christ became king in heaven in the year1914.(daniel 7:13,14)soon after he received kingdom power,jesus took action.(War broke out in heaven),says the bible.Michael(another name for jesus)and his angels battled with the dragon(satan the devil,and the dragon and its angels battled).Satan and his wicked angels,the demons,lost that war and were cast out of heaven to the earth.Gods faithful spirit sons rejoiced that satan and his demons were gone.Humans,however,would experience no such joy.Instead,the bible foretold:woe for the earth ...because the devil has come down to you,having great anger,knowing he has a short period of time.(revelation 12:7,9,12).Thank you for that. I appreciate the effort you must have put into it.
Your views evidently derive from the School of thought of the Old Testament and Revelations, which is one that not many of us subscribe to. I have always believed that the strength of Christianity lies in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, which superseded the Old Testament's inhuman side. The Gospel of John has always be a problem to me, irrespective of whether he wrote Revelations, which I personally doubt.
I do not believe Satan rules the world, and I believe the Synoptic Gospels support this view.
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 23:21
Heartfelt point. I think your line that you got riddles instead of answers is a very pertinent point christians should ask themselves every day, is there an answer in religion and what is it? Im sure more would follow you out of the church if they didWell, Praise the Lord! Weezy appreciates what he perceives as the heartfelt point of an ex-Christian child.
But what do you think of going from belief in a God with sufficient power to create Life, the Universe and Everything, to belief that simple crystalline solids have supernatural healing powers. Even you must know enough science to know that crystals have very simple structures that have been totally understood for at least 50 years, and they do not have any properties that we can not predict. The only interesting properties come from imperfections and impurities and even those have been understood for a long time.
What I have learned in recent weeks is that there is a whole religion built around these non-existent healing powers of crystals. They have colleges where non-existent properties are taught as fact and they issue what they call qualifications in using them. Is this not more primitive than our ancestors worshipping things we cannot grasp (literally) such as the Sun, the Moon and the Stars, or Earthly powers such as Thunder and Lightning? Now, I know you have issues with the idea of God, but at least God is an extra terrestrial unknown, and even you must be able to why some people are attracted to that idea. What I don't understand is why anyone with any degree of education who abandons the idea of God as a creator then turns to worship inanimate solids whose properties are so simple that they can be calculated to any desired level of accuracy by anyone with a big enough computer. In other words, healing by crystals is something that can be proved not to exist by science.
Are you with me weezer?
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 23:25
Harrass? Gee whiz! I certaintly dont harras anyone! Infact id call it polite to answer a question when asked! You are right, they dont have to asnwer me, but Ill ask till the cows come home if I wish and I really couldnt care less if it comes accross as smart or as foolish. This isnt x-factor. And crucually, I do have a right to ask for an answer, just as much as anyone has the right not to answer.
Don't stop weezy. It is good to challenge beliefs that have not been adequately challenged in the past. Only then does real progress follow.
The Lesson for tonight is that support sometimes comes from unexpected directions.
secrets in symmetry
03-Apr-11, 23:36
Didn't he announce a change in his beliefs after stepping down as prime minister - even though it had occurred some months or years previously.
If that does not display his cynical use of religion as a means to (his) ends, then I do not know what does.You can't have it both ways. Blair kept his religious zeal under fairly transparent wraps for most of the time he was PM. It was well known that he was close to Catholicism so it was hardly surprising that he converted soon after he stood down as PM.
I had little sympathy with those that admonished you for poking your nose into UK politics last week, but I now see that in your case they were right because you add nothing but your personal misunderstandings to the debate.
Gosh much thunderings and little enlightening here I think.
Weezer you can use quotes from the bible to support pretty much anything you choose. Christianity is a fluid changing form and much of it bears little resemblance to the old testament or to the image laid out by people like Paul. Many Christian churches do not advocate racism or hatred of homosexuality. Tolerance and understanding and love are words you will find preached from many many pulpits today.
You will never ever understand 'faith' and I use that word particularly because to believe in God is exactly that. It is faith in it's purest sense and it is impossible for those of us who do not have it to pick it apart and understand it. It does not make sense to us. The fact that we don't understand it however does not mean that people with faith are wrong, deluded or ignorant. They simply have something that we do not.
Finally, Ju I think made a vital point.... Religion is not the problem .... Man is. Religion is simply the tool man uses tosecure power or intimidate people. Peer, greed and control are the real problems.
Aaldtimer
04-Apr-11, 03:07
Anyone watch this programme tonight? http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0107zhy/Louis_Theroux_Americas_Most_Hated_Family_in_Crisis/
:eek:
Now that's really scary what religion can do!:~(
oldmarine
04-Apr-11, 05:59
You can believe what ever you want. As for me and my house we will believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him into eternity. I hope to meet Him after Armegeddon as described in the Book of Revelations. For me at 85 years of age it should not be too long.
John Little
04-Apr-11, 06:43
Is belief then a choice?
Tubthumper
04-Apr-11, 07:29
Anyone watch this programme tonight? http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0107zhy/Louis_Theroux_Americas_Most_Hated_Family_in_Crisis/
:eek:
Now that's really scary what religion can do!:~(
Saw that, very worrying. More so when you realise that these lunatics earn their crust as nurses and lawyers.
onecalledk
04-Apr-11, 09:36
Well, Praise the Lord! Weezy appreciates what he perceives as the heartfelt point of an ex-Christian child.
But what do you think of going from belief in a God with sufficient power to create Life, the Universe and Everything, to belief that simple crystalline solids have supernatural healing powers. Even you must know enough science to know that crystals have very simple structures that have been totally understood for at least 50 years, and they do not have any properties that we can not predict. The only interesting properties come from imperfections and impurities and even those have been understood for a long time.
What I have learned in recent weeks is that there is a whole religion built around these non-existent healing powers of crystals. They have colleges where non-existent properties are taught as fact and they issue what they call qualifications in using them. Is this not more primitive than our ancestors worshipping things we cannot grasp (literally) such as the Sun, the Moon and the Stars, or Earthly powers such as Thunder and Lightning? Now, I know you have issues with the idea of God, but at least God is an extra terrestrial unknown, and even you must be able to why some people are attracted to that idea. What I don't understand is why anyone with any degree of education who abandons the idea of God as a creator then turns to worship inanimate solids whose properties are so simple that they can be calculated to any desired level of accuracy by anyone with a big enough computer. In other words, healing by crystals is something that can be proved not to exist by science.
Are you with me weezer?
Is that the problem that you really have with me that is masked by your constant attacks on what I do the fact I am an EX christian child? that speaks volumes. There is no religion around crystals, there may be a belief although you dont need belief for them to work, they work. Belief does not equal religion. There is no workshipping of crystals , there are crystals, their properties and how they work, full stop.
Every debate that I even comment on is an excuse for a swipe at what I do. This is what I do , get over it. Sorry if it doesnt sit with your christian principles but there are lots of areas of business that perhaps shouldnt sit with your principles either.
I think that weezer has made his point loud and clear about the INtolerance of those with belief. It appears ok if you follow the bible and are "one of us" but everyone outside of that is ridiculed or somehow going to burn in hell. The bible gave me no answers at a young age so I chose to walk away from it. That is a personal opinion that I have every right to make. I am sure that everyone who loses someone close to them would choose to ask questions of a faith they had, perhaps I am wrong .....
I dont constantly attack people with religious views however those with religious views seem to take it upon themselves to constantly attack "non believers". You might as well merge this thread now with the who is god thread as the comments have started discussing god, the original question was about religion not about whos god is better.....
Once more for you crystals come from the earth, they have various chemical properties due to their make up, science can tell you all about them, just look up any geology book, they are found on beaches, in shops , all over the place. There IS NO RELIGION attached to them. They look lovely and sparkly sitting on a window ledge and they are put into various electronic equipment ....... As far as I am aware there have never been any world wars started because someone took a dislike to them, nor has any civil wars or unrest been started because somebodies piece of amethyst was bigger than their neighbours .........
K
Weezer, have some answers:
If you believe that religion caused these people to do terrible things then you are taking away from the pure evil that can be present in the human race. You are as guilty as they are of using religion as an excuse.
Also, if you are so concerned about intolerance and think that the Bible advocates the appalling behaviour that you list, how about these words from Jesus Christ:
"The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
So, all Christians are told to be homophobes and rapists, eh? [lol] I don't think so...
Weezer, you're flogging a dead horse mate.. let 'em get on with it.
Personally, anyone who follows the thousands of various religions* and beliefs are welcome to - as long as they don't attempt to thrust it down my throat, or, as has been intimated in these posts. telling me that there is a god, and it's my loss if I don't believe in 'him'..
Having travelled extensively and had close personal friends of the Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and many of the Christian faiths - among them JW's, I often wonder where they learned their doctrines, and it looks like in 90% + of cases, their parents were of that faith - ain't that strange? - or is it damn obvious?
In friendly discussions have not come across many (if any) followers of Islam who where born and bought up in a Jewish family, or Buddhists born and brought up in a family that followed the Roman Catholic faith..
In my own instance, I was bought up in a Christian family and made my own decision of Atheism, following personal witness of the horrors bestowed upon others - due mainly to religious intolerances.
However my mother; a devout believer, who although had 'died' three times before being resuscitated asked me "why did God not take me?" - how does one answer that? .
As may be seen by perusing the list below, there are a LOT of the human race that have their own personal beliefs, many of these listed have killed many of opposing religions - we are seeing it now in places such as the Punjab where a few days ago a suicide bomber murdered 34, a witness told Geo television that the lone suicide bomber shouted 'Allah akbar [God is great]' before detonating the explosives.
There have been wonder, since man first looked out of his cave, theory, thought, into how/why we are here. Despite the cleverest minds in the world, the actual truth is ; we just do not know (yet).
Abrogating responsibility of research in the meantime, accepting the cop out of 'god did it' is, to me not tenable, I'm 66 and have been close to death on a number of occasions, I do not fear death, but would it not be a laugh to get to those pearly gates and find St Paul standing there, with me saying 'whoops my mistake', but you DID give me free will..
*Baha'i 5 million followers
Buddhism 307 million followers
Confucianism 5.6 million followers
Ethical Culture 7,000 followers
Hinduism 648 million followers
Islam 840 million followers
Judaism 18 million followers
Orthodox Eastern Church 158 million followers
The Roman Catholic Church, with 900 million followers
Shinto 3.5 million followers
Amish Mennonites 40,000 Amish Mennonites; 180,000 Mennonites
Baptists 31 million
Church of Christ 1.6 million
Church of England
Episcopal Church 2.7 million
Lutheran Church 8 million
Methodist Church 13.5 million
Pentecostal churches 3.5 million
Presbyterian Church 3.2 million
Seventh-Day Adventist Church 734,527
United Church of Christ 1.7 million
Mormons 4.5 million
Jehovah's Witnesses 893,000
Quakers 113,000
Unitarian Universalist Association 171,000
Jedi Knight 481,127
Weezer, have some answers:
If you believe that religion caused these people to do terrible things then you are taking away from the pure evil that can be present in the human race. You are as guilty as they are of using religion as an excuse.
Also, if you are so concerned about intolerance and think that the Bible advocates the appalling behaviour that you list, how about these words from Jesus Christ:
So, all Christians are told to be homophobes and rapists, eh? [lol] I don't think so...
Job 9:22
"He destroys both the blameless and the wicked."
A do not claim to be tolerant, I try, but often fail. The things you find in the bible I believe you read there but I never have and doubt that I ever will. My parents gave me a set of values as a child and later in life I formed my own values,are they based on the bible, some of them perhaps are. We live in a christian society so the values are in many ways inbred but I have formed my own values and nope the bible does not play a part in those. What does play a part for me is a firm believe in God as I understand him/her and that works well for me.
It is an answer to your first point. However, do dwell on such things as this when you have finally answered the seemingly unanswerable question would be criminal!
Now, firstly, thank you for you answer, and secondly, it shows perfectly well that our morals and values are drawn not from the bible (amazingly as some seem to think) but are present in even us mere mortals who do no believe in such nonsense.
The matter of if a god exists is another argument for another day, but I am glad we seem to agree that belief in the bible is incompatible with modern values, of which tolerance of other religions is one and which the bible clearly does not follow.[/QUOTE]
You did not answer the question wheezer so lets try again keeping it nice and simple. You state that this is what religion does to the world and this is followed by the violent actions of men and you blame these mens actions of religion. Later you say it is faith to blame, this is not an answer. Do you accept that it is not religion to blame but the actions of men for whatever reason, a yes or no will do just fine as an answer, without all the silly waffle.
"firstly, thank you for you answer, and secondly, it shows perfectly well that our morals and values are drawn not from the bible (amazingly as some seem to think) but are present in even us mere mortals who do no believe in such nonsense."
You just cannot grasp this at all wheezer so once again lets have another try. I was brought up in a christian community, as a child I was given guidelines to live by, so of course I was taught christian values from a young age. Being taught these values did not remove my ability to think for myself as I grew older when I then formed my own set of values. Simple so far wheexer.
In forming my set of values I did not read the bible but instead looked within myself for values that were meaningful to me and my life. These values came not from a book but from the people around me as I grew from a child to an adult. The important point here wheezer is that I chose from what I knew and that was Christian values.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 12:42
It is an answer to your first point. However, do dwell on such things as this when you have finally answered the seemingly unanswerable question would be criminal!
Now, firstly, thank you for you answer, and secondly, it shows perfectly well that our morals and values are drawn not from the bible (amazingly as some seem to think) but are present in even us mere mortals who do no believe in such nonsense.
The matter of if a god exists is another argument for another day, but I am glad we seem to agree that belief in the bible is incompatible with modern values, of which tolerance of other religions is one and which the bible clearly does not follow.
You did not answer the question wheezer so lets try again keeping it nice and simple. You state that this is what religion does to the world and this is followed by the violent actions of men and you blame these mens actions of religion. Later you say it is faith to blame, this is not an answer. Do you accept that it is not religion to blame but the actions of men for whatever reason, a yes or no will do just fine as an answer, without all the silly waffle.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely not. Its an answer just not the one you want.
Ask youself this question, would those madmen who beheaded folk in Afhganistan have done so without believeing they were protecting their religion? Seeing as the victims appear to have been in the country for quite some time then the answer is no.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 12:50
Well, Praise the Lord! Weezy appreciates what he perceives as the heartfelt point of an ex-Christian child.
But what do you think of going from belief in a God with sufficient power to create Life, the Universe and Everything, to belief that simple crystalline solids have supernatural healing powers. Even you must know enough science to know that crystals have very simple structures that have been totally understood for at least 50 years, and they do not have any properties that we can not predict. The only interesting properties come from imperfections and impurities and even those have been understood for a long time.
What I have learned in recent weeks is that there is a whole religion built around these non-existent healing powers of crystals. They have colleges where non-existent properties are taught as fact and they issue what they call qualifications in using them. Is this not more primitive than our ancestors worshipping things we cannot grasp (literally) such as the Sun, the Moon and the Stars, or Earthly powers such as Thunder and Lightning? Now, I know you have issues with the idea of God, but at least God is an extra terrestrial unknown, and even you must be able to why some people are attracted to that idea. What I don't understand is why anyone with any degree of education who abandons the idea of God as a creator then turns to worship inanimate solids whose properties are so simple that they can be calculated to any desired level of accuracy by anyone with a big enough computer. In other words, healing by crystals is something that can be proved not to exist by science.
Are you with me weezer?
Like I have said, she can worship what she wishes, but I dont see oppresive organizations causing bother the world over and venerating an atricious work of fiction, and using it to justify homophobic and sexists practices. When we have a church of crystal which engages in such things as mass child abuse and then to protect the perpitrators then I will attack that also.
Saying that, I dont think for a single second crystals have any magical powers and it is like religion in that there isnt any proof of such things.
And I appreciate the point as she clearly thought critically. A welcome step and more than most who worship god have ever done.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 12:55
Weezer, have some answers:
If you believe that religion caused these people to do terrible things then you are taking away from the pure evil that can be present in the human race. You are as guilty as they are of using religion as an excuse.
Also, if you are so concerned about intolerance and think that the Bible advocates the appalling behaviour that you list, how about these words from Jesus Christ:
So, all Christians are told to be homophobes and rapists, eh? [lol] I don't think so...
No, all "christains" are not homophobes and rascists, and im sure you fall into that category. Raises the earth shattering point though that if you dont belive what the bible says, then your going to hell, doesnt that concern you? Bible quite clear (for once) on such things:
Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
or, like most christians, do you pick and choose what you want to believe? if thast the case then I say your an athiest just the same as I am and dont believ in the word of god at all
Ah now you know what I want even if it is not what I say I want, mind reader form a distance , you are clever. lol
A simple answer instead of a lot of waffle is all I asked for and you do not give it, try a yes or no that works every time.
Once again you end with a question, go read about it and even try to understand what you read, and try reading all of the information about it you obviously have not done that.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 13:22
Ah now you know what I want even if it is not what I say I want, mind reader form a distance , you are clever. lol
A simple answer instead of a lot of waffle is all I asked for and you do not give it, try a yes or no that works every time.
Once again you end with a question, go read about it and even try to understand what you read, and try reading all of the information about it you obviously have not done that.
I aint reading your mind, im just using what you said before, which was "Do you accept that it is not religion to blame but the actions of men for whatever reason, a yes or no will do just fine as an answer, without all the silly waffle."
You have intimated that this is what i should think. Thats the answer you are looknig for clearly as you raised it before also. So no hocus pocus, no mind reading, just reading of what you wrote. And again no, religion is the problem. Is that clear??
Do you even actuallly read what you post before posting it? Id suggest you do
No, all "christains" are not homophobes and rascists, and im sure you fall into that category. Raises the earth shattering point though that if you dont belive what the bible says, then your going to hell, doesnt that concern you? Bible quite clear (for once) on such things:
Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
or, like most christians, do you pick and choose what you want to believe? if thast the case then I say your an athiest just the same as I am and dont believ in the word of god at all
Yes, like most Christians I choose to value the words of Jesus Christ above the teachings of books like Leviticus. This is the same Jesus Christ who did not mind whether the people he was teaching or healing were Jews, Romans, Samaritans or lepers etc... the very picture of tolerance and equality :)
No, all "christains" are not homophobes and rascists
Eek! I'm pretty sure I didn't write "christains" so why did you put that in quotation marks?!
Job 9:22
"He destroys both the blameless and the wicked."
So, you're more of a New Testament man? Me too :D
If you Christians believe the stories of Jesus' miracles, if you believe the story of Jesus' miraculous birth, if you believe the story that Jesus was raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven, then how can you refuse to believe precisely the same stories when they are told of the other Savior Gods: Herakles, Asklepios, the Dioscuri, Dionysos, and a dozen others I could name? could any chritstains explain this to me,, would be much obliged
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 13:49
Yes, like most Christians I choose to value the words of Jesus Christ above the teachings of books like Leviticus. This is the same Jesus Christ who did not mind whether the people he was teaching or healing were Jews, Romans, Samaritans or lepers etc... the very picture of tolerance and equality :)
Eek! I'm pretty sure I didn't write "christains" so why did you put that in quotation marks?!
So, you're more of a New Testament man? Me too :D
Well there is the issue in a nutshell. You pick and choose what you want to believe from the bible. You said it yourself "I choose to value the words of Jesus Christ above the teachings of books like Leviticus.". Your ignoring the word of god as shwown in the bible and therefore by default are going to hell!
Whilst we are here, could you clarify why you ignore leviticus? Coudlnt be anything to do with the fact you would can see how ridiculous it is and object to the horrendous teachings in book like it on moral grounds?
And I put christians in quotes as they are to be taken with a pinch of salt. I have never met one yet that takes the bible, all of it, as fact, depite the fact it is written as the world of god and venerated as such. You pick and choose the bits you like and you normally do it in line with modern values, and those have nothing to do with christianity.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 13:50
If you Christians believe the stories of Jesus' miracles, if you believe the story of Jesus' miraculous birth, if you believe the story that Jesus was raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven, then how can you refuse to believe precisely the same stories when they are told of the other Savior Gods: Herakles, Asklepios, the Dioscuri, Dionysos, and a dozen others I could name? could any chritstains explain this to me,, would be much obliged
Dont even bother asking the question, you will never ever get an answer. I have tried literally a hundred times. Dont waste your time
The Music Monster
04-Apr-11, 13:53
If you Christians believe the stories of Jesus' miracles, if you believe the story of Jesus' miraculous birth, if you believe the story that Jesus was raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven, then how can you refuse to believe precisely the same stories when they are told of the other Savior Gods: Herakles, Asklepios, the Dioscuri, Dionysos, and a dozen others I could name? could any chritstains explain this to me,, would be much obliged
I believe that there are truths in all world religions, and in spite of my personal beliefs sitting where they are, I very much appreciate the Hindu perspective of God as having many different faces for many different people - to reach different people in different ways. Good point, though.
The Music Monster
04-Apr-11, 13:54
Dont even bother asking the question, you will never ever get an answer. I have tried literally a hundred times. Dont waste your time
Oops! I just answered - there goes another of your theories!!!
Christian students are often devastated to hear of ancient religions which contained stories of resurrections, dying saviors, baptismal initiations, miraculous births, and the like. The inference, of course, is that the early Christian writers borrowed these stories and attributed them to Jesus as they formulated the Christian religion. Jewish scholar Pinchas Lapide states:
If we add to all these disturbing factors the statement that in the ancient world there were not less than a round dozen of nature deities, heroes, philosophers, and rulers who, all long before Jesus, suffered and died, and rose again on the third day, then the skepticism of most non Christians can easily be understood....
The imprisonment of the savior of the world, his interrogation, the condemnation, the scourging, the execution in the midst of the criminals, the descent into hell -yes, even the heart blood of the dying gushing out of a spear wound, all these details were believed by millions of believers of the Bel-Marduk mystery religion whose central deity was called the savior sent by the Father, the one who raises the dead, the Lord and the Good Shepherd.
Did the early Christians turn a human Jesus into a supernatural figure by borrowing supernatural elements from the mystery religions?
I aint reading your mind, im just using what you said before, which was "Do you accept that it is not religion to blame but the actions of men for whatever reason, a yes or no will do just fine as an answer, without all the silly waffle."
You have intimated that this is what i should think. Thats the answer you are looknig for clearly as you raised it before also. So no hocus pocus, no mind reading, just reading of what you wrote. And again no, religion is the problem. Is that clear??
Why would I intimate what you should think? it makes no difference to me what others think and I would not waste my time asking if I knew the answer. I have asked many times for an answer and received waffle, but you are clear now that you see religion as the problem and no big deal.
Do you even actuallly read what you post before posting it? Id suggest you do
There you go again and with a silly question this time, lol No need for personal attacks weezer none of us are perfect and I accept that you have a problem at times with being clear in your posts.
Christian students are often devastated to hear of ancient religions which contained stories of resurrections, dying saviors, baptismal initiations, miraculous births, and the like. The inference, of course, is that the early Christian writers borrowed these stories and attributed them to Jesus as they formulated the Christian religion. Jewish scholar Pinchas Lapide states:
If we add to all these disturbing factors the statement that in the ancient world there were not less than a round dozen of nature deities, heroes, philosophers, and rulers who, all long before Jesus, suffered and died, and rose again on the third day, then the skepticism of most non Christians can easily be understood....
The imprisonment of the savior of the world, his interrogation, the condemnation, the scourging, the execution in the midst of the criminals, the descent into hell -yes, even the heart blood of the dying gushing out of a spear wound, all these details were believed by millions of believers of the Bel-Marduk mystery religion whose central deity was called the savior sent by the Father, the one who raises the dead, the Lord and the Good Shepherd.
Did the early Christians turn a human Jesus into a supernatural figure by borrowing supernatural elements from the mystery religions?
I find that very interesting, it also sits well with many of the symbols used both in early Christianity and some even in use today that have pagon origans.
im glad you find it interesting,, kells, one only needs study ancient religions and civilizations, to see the bible is just a mish mash of half truths and bedtime stories to scare e kids, lol
Kells, and anyone else interested , watch this programme on bbc, not sure which channel as im out tuesdays,, but i record it,, Bibles.Buried.Secrets,,
very good stuff,,, i love Archaeology and ancient history.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 14:51
There you go again and with a silly question this time, lol No need for personal attacks weezer none of us are perfect and I accept that you have a problem at times with being clear in your posts.
You dont even read what you write do you? You said, and I quote "Do you accept that it is not religion to blame but the actions of men for whatever reason, a yes or no will do just fine as an answer, without all the silly waffle.". That is clear as day you trying to say what I should think!
I dont really know what to say to you about that. And thats a first let me tell you! Astonishing
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 14:56
Oops! I just answered - there goes another of your theories!!!
mmm no, we covered this on an older thread. Your wrong. You cant believe the same sory accros 2 religions. I highlighted aborigines believeing the world was dreamed into existence and Genesis. The two are differnt stories on how the world starts. Could you enlighten us to which one you believe and why? Thats what the original question was getting at. Truths in all religion, whilst also nonsense, is another issue entirely.
You dont even read what you write do you? You said, and I quote "Do you accept that it is not religion to blame but the actions of men for whatever reason, a yes or no will do just fine as an answer, without all the silly waffle.". That is clear as day you trying to say what I should think!
I dont really know what to say to you about that. And thats a first let me tell you! Astonishing
It has to be a first for you not to know what to say weezer, lol and yes I can be astonishing. I must admit I had a good laugh at this. I asked a question, I did not presume the answer but I admit that I worded the question to help you give an answer without any more waffle and it worked.
The Music Monster
04-Apr-11, 15:19
Your wrong.
What about my wrong?!
Quite frankly, your post is utter claptrap - of course you can believe in truths across religions - I think this is what you are saying anyway and I'm assuming "sory accros" means "story across" - clearly not a Google Chrome user!! I am quite able to believe that God is the God of all religions, and of course they all have their own variation on the stories. What I believe is personal to me, and quite frankly I don't think you are interested in it - so why ask? I do believe that all creation stories have elements of truth, if you can't understand that it is your loss and small-mindedness, not mine.
im glad you find it interesting,, kells, one only needs study ancient religions and civilizations, to see the bible is just a mish mash of half truths and bedtime stories to scare e kids, lol
Well the bible was pulled together in the 3rd Century so it is pretty old, lol I do find ancient religions and civilizations often have much to offer but so often the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.
Not much of an answer,, music monster,, at this time in history there was trade with india ,, spices,silks and the such, im sure you know what trade in them days entails,, lots of swapping of goods and more importantly,, ideas and customs,,one of the main reasons the romans got into judea, cicra 1stcentury bc,, for the trade in exotics ,, mega lucrative,
brahma and hinduism budda, etc etc,, christianity is just a sect of one of these religions and a mishy mash of other local ones,,just too keep the local peeps happy,, all religions are perverse,, they seek to control and close minds, imho
and if a GOD, GODS, do exist why dont he just pop down for an hour and let us all know about it, and solve the debate once and for all,, he did create the universe did he not, a couple of minutes on jeremy kyle would put us all straight,
it was good enough for moses and all them old testament bronze,iron age folks,, i always wonderwed why god gods only appear to one nutter at a time,, rofl,, ps only my humble educated opinion,,
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 15:22
What about my wrong?!
Quite frankly, your post is utter claptrap - of course you can believe in truths across religions - I think this is what you are saying anyway and I'm assuming "sory accros" means "story across" - clearly not a Google Chrome user!! I am quite able to believe that God is the God of all religions, and of course they all have their own variation on the stories. What I believe is personal to me, and quite frankly I don't think you are interested in it - so why ask? I do believe that all creation stories have elements of truth, if you can't understand that it is your loss and small-mindedness, not mine.
Reduced to elements of truth now have we? Keep going, salvation is just down the road, its called common sense.
Take it you dont care to elaborate on these elements within the two stories of creation I mentioned, both of whcih cant be true?
I am quite able to believe that God is the God of all religions,,
i like that music monster, nice statement, but is it a cop out, or just your particular belief,, which branch of the christians you with ,, if you dont mind pretty please
David Banks
04-Apr-11, 15:45
You can't have it both ways. Blair kept his religious zeal under fairly transparent wraps for most of the time he was PM. It was well known that he was close to Catholicism so it was hardly surprising that he converted soon after he stood down as PM.
I had little sympathy with those that admonished you for poking your nose into UK politics last week, but I now see that in your case they were right because you add nothing but your personal misunderstandings to the debate.
I have learned a few things since joining this forum. No doubt I will learn more.
I recognise that my views are from a different point of view, including the geographic one. My view of Tony Blair probably started with "she was the people's princess" and continued with interviews on his occasional trips to North America. - which no doubt included the view he wanted to present of himself here. Call it my "personal misunderstandings" if you like.
What I dislike, and maybe it happens more in North America than Scotland, is that a political leader will express his religious belief (to corner that portion of the population) but then assures the remainder that he (or she) will represent the entire country in making decisions and will not be influenced by his (or her) beliefs.
Alternatively, as you seem to indicate, Tony Blair kept his beliefs secret when in power and revealed them afterwards. Do you now wonder, after the fact, how those beliefs may have influenced any of his decisions?
During his election campaign, Barak Obama had to dissociate himself from statements by his church pastor from his church in Chicago - to avoid undue influence if he became president?
Then there will no doubt be some fancy footwork from Mitt Romney (a mormon) when he runs as a republican in the next US presidential campaign.
In my view, you need to live and act as a christian, muslim, mormon, roman catholic, jew, or whatever, all of the time, 24/7, or not at all. A belief that lasts e.g.: only from 10 to 11am on Sundays is no belief at all - to put it mildly.
kells the old testament was mostly put together after the jews were let oot of jail by the babylonians ,, circa 5th 6th century bc,,
this is why the old testament is such a nasty piece of work,,lot of chips on shoulders,
the jews wondered why their gods and i do mean gods, not one god but a hierarchy of gods including the chief gods wife?,Asherah
yahweh or EL as he was called by their forefathers, were pissed off with them, destruction of the temple etc etc,,slavery captivity,death for many.
Too only having one god YAHWEH, all their other gods were banished including gods wife Asherah
so pre babylonian they had lots of gods yahweh or el, being the head god, after the event about 60 to 100 years in captivity they only have one god, oh and the devil he appears about this time too. SCARY STUFF EH,, LOL
kells again the new testament was formed in about 3rd century ad early 200s ad,, again all the christains were at odds with each other,, nature of jesus etc ,is he a god etc divine and all that malarky,
not until Constantine the great ,in the early third century was it put together in a form we would recognize ,, council of nicea , do your google,,
this was when it was decided jesus was a son of god so thats 2 gods, and not without much dissention from half of the other middle east christians,,
but constantine and his bishops , knew the sword is much more powerful ,, ie its the emperors way, or your on your way to meet your maker,,simples,10s of thousands of christians were massacred by christians, great start eh
did you ever wonder about confession,,stuck in by Constantine to make sure he knew about all the plots and skulduggery going on about him , mega paraniod being a roman empereor and a god at the same time ,, ohh thats 3 gods
and we aint even got to the trinity yet ,,lol,, got to go make tea for the true god she will be in in a minute, lol
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 16:28
I am quite able to believe that God is the God of all religions,,
i like that music monster, nice statement, but is it a cop out, or just your particular belief,, which branch of the christians you with ,, if you dont mind pretty please
Nice. Its a total and utter cop out is what it is. Couldnt have said it better myself. As soon as you start asking difficault questions you get this nonsense back
yip i had noticed that,, weezer, been watching these threads with interest,, you dont need science to disprove gods existence,, archaeology destroyed gods and god existance ages ago, imho
kells the old testament was mostly put together after the jews were let oot of jail by the babylonians ,, circa 5th 6th century bc,,
this is why the old testament is such a nasty piece of work,,lot of chips on shoulders,
the jews wondered why their gods and i do mean gods, not one god but a hierarchy of gods including the chief gods wife?,Asherah
yahweh or EL as he was called by their forefathers, were pissed off with them, destruction of the temple etc etc,,slavery captivity,death for many.
Too only having one god YAHWEH, all their other gods were banished including gods wife Asherah
so pre babylonian they had lots of gods yahweh or el, being the head god, after the event about 60 to 100 years in captivity they only have one god, oh and the devil he appears about this time too. SCARY STUFF EH,, LOL
Well this explains a lot about the contents, I must read it soon. lol
kells again the new testament was formed in about 3rd century ad early 200s ad,, again all the christains were at odds with each other,, nature of jesus etc ,is he a god etc divine and all that malarky,
not until Constantine the great ,in the early third century was it put together in a form we would recognize ,, council of nicea , do your google,,
this was when it was decided jesus was a son of god so thats 2 gods, and not without much dissention from half of the other middle east christians,,
but constantine and his bishops , knew the sword is much more powerful ,, ie its the emperors way, or your on your way to meet your maker,,simples,10s of thousands of christians were massacred by christians, great start eh
did you ever wonder about confession,,stuck in by Constantine to make sure he knew about all the plots and skulduggery going on about him , mega paraniod being a roman empereor and a god at the same time ,, ohh thats 3 gods
and we aint even got to the trinity yet ,,lol,, got to go make tea for the true god she will be in in a minute, lol
Wikipedia does not tell me this, so I doubt what you posted is fact.
do yourself a favour and keep well away from it, the bible dont like women,, period , why do you think women have been 2nd class citizens until modern times,
I dont know why people bother starting threads like this, Gods existance has not been disproven in the slightest, nor has his existance been proven. If he is as fake as you claim then how come so many people in the world claim to have some form of belief in him ? Religion is not a living being, it doesnt choose what happens within its boundries and what doesnt happen. Its the people within religion who commit evil, and if they do so then they dont deserve to be in said religion. That is the one thing that offends religious people, blaming religion itself when it has no choice in the matter. I agree on many points like promoting homphobia, racism and murder but if people choose to follow such a belief system then who are you to challenge those beliefs. I find the bible interesting at best, it does not make a great deal of sense to me but i wouldnt not challenge someones religious convictions, the same as i hope they would not challenge mine
yip i had noticed that,, weezer, been watching these threads with interest,, you dont need science to disprove gods existence,, archaeology destroyed gods and god existance ages ago, imho
I prefer to keep an open mind on this issue, the constant existance of belief in something/someone greater than man within every culture is difficult to disregard even when reason is applied. Even as one belief is destroyed another appears and this is constant in every culture.
Golach wikipediea aint the font of all knowledge , and neither am i,, i just read to much history books, archeology etc etc.
You are forgetting that the first known God was a woman. lol
Yip kells i know , thats why i worship the ground they walk on ,, lol,, or may get thick ear ,lol
I dont think this thread is directed at all religions in the slightest, it seems to me to be straight against christianity. What about rastafarian beliefs or Zoroastrianism, i see no mention of those, especially the latter of the two
do yourself a favour and keep well away from it, the bible dont like women,, period , why do you think women have been 2nd class citizens until modern times,
Lets not forget Dr E Lyle research while Head of Scottish Studies at Edinburgh Uni show that Scotland was a matriachal society at one point, dont remember the dates sorry.
Yip kells i know , thats why i worship the ground they walk on ,, lol,, or may get thick ear ,lol
And hear speaks a man who knows his proper place. lol
Zoroastrianism, yip now that was a religion and a half,, study a bit of that and you will see where all or most of the early bible stories come from.
nice point Kupkake.
most of every day society comes from one place or another, its no surprise the bible takes many ideoligies from other religions. But as i said this is a suject that shouldnt be bothered about, let people believe what they want in the comfort of their own homes without proclaiming religion to be poison basically. I dont think it is and i dont follow it, i find it can be a very beautiful thing and positive influence on people
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 17:31
I dont know why people bother starting threads like this, Gods existance has not been disproven in the slightest, nor has his existance been proven. If he is as fake as you claim then how come so many people in the world claim to have some form of belief in him ? Religion is not a living being, it doesnt choose what happens within its boundries and what doesnt happen. Its the people within religion who commit evil, and if they do so then they dont deserve to be in said religion. That is the one thing that offends religious people, blaming religion itself when it has no choice in the matter. I agree on many points like promoting homphobia, racism and murder but if people choose to follow such a belief system then who are you to challenge those beliefs. I find the bible interesting at best, it does not make a great deal of sense to me but i wouldnt not challenge someones religious convictions, the same as i hope they would not challenge mine
Ill tell you who I am to challenge beliefs. I am a person who believes wholeheartedly in the current form of democracy, freedom of speech and everything in between. Hand in hand with that goes the ability to worship who you wish, but also question who and what you wish. This freedom allows people to openly practice the religion of their choosing but when that religion is a bastion of the things we all hate, ill challenge it. And it really is as simple as that.
Furthermore, disproving god is irrelevant. There is no proof of his existence and taking the evidence that we have collected over the eons shows this. So being unable to disprove he exists isnt an argument for his existence.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 17:33
do yourself a favour and keep well away from it, the bible dont like women,, period , why do you think women have been 2nd class citizens until modern times,
Double agreed! Unless you like gang rape that is, in which case im sure there are websites that can cater for that where no one is actually raped
You are nobody important and certainly not important enough to think you have the right to challenge the beliefs of religious people. Freedom of speech right there that is as you said yourself, im curious weezer, wich religion is a bastion of all things you hate in this world ? You only seem to be against one from my point of view
You are nobody important and certainly not important enough to think you have the right to challenge the beliefs of religious people. Freedom of speech right there that is as you said yourself, im curious weezer, wich religion is a bastion of all things you hate in this world ? You only seem to be against one from my point of view
And who are you to say. Who and who is not important. Some one who is not important, in your life. Might well be in another persons.
He/She may well be important to some people, but to challenge worldwide religion, no one is that important
He/She may well be important to some people, but to challenge worldwide religion, no one is that important
But you started your post with.................You are nobody important.
I dont think they are, but i understand your point that to someone, however many, or few people they might be that person might mean something. Let me put it this way then if it makes you feel more at ease, instead of complaining because i said one thing then another, everyone in this world is important to someone or another, im sure saddam hussain meant something to someone, but no one can challenge the religious beliefs of others. thats something they have no right in, if they disagree fair enough, but to start venomous posts proclaiming religion to be this and that is not right, religion has many benefits, more so than negatives as most believers will tell you
Double agreed! Unless you like gang rape that is, in which case im sure there are websites that can cater for that where no one is actually raped
Now I did not know that wheezer and how do you know no one is actually raped. :Razz
I dont think they are, but i understand your point that to someone, however many, or few people they might be that person might mean something. Let me put it this way then if it makes you feel more at ease, instead of complaining because i said one thing then another, everyone in this world is important to someone or another, im sure saddam hussain meant something to someone, but no one can challenge the religious beliefs of others. thats something they have no right in, if they disagree fair enough, but to start venomous posts proclaiming religion to be this and that is not right, religion has many benefits, more so than negatives as most believers will tell you
I make no secret or apology, that i am an atheist. I also believe that religion / in the name of. Does have a lot to answer for. Not every one who commits the atrocities we here of, can be doing it because they are evil, some of them must be true believers, . Also your last sentence. You will say that, as you are one of those ( believers ).
And who are you to say. Who and who is not important. Some one who is not important, in your life. Might well be in another persons.
He is entitled to his opinion and if he thinks weezer is not important then who knows he might be right, I know I am not important to many people ....... so what.
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 18:27
You are nobody important and certainly not important enough to think you have the right to challenge the beliefs of religious people. Freedom of speech right there that is as you said yourself, im curious weezer, wich religion is a bastion of all things you hate in this world ? You only seem to be against one from my point of view
Challenge whom and what i want where I want. Its called freedom, something you dont find in religion. You might like it if you try it. And you right im not that important at all, but aint we all the same in the eyes of christ?
Im against all religions. They promote hatred and discrimination, encourage you to believe without thinking critically, are bastions of child abuse, encourage violence through their respective holy texts and most importantly are totally and utterly unsubstantiated by any observable facts or evidence. And thats brought from the benefit of going to a catholic school when I was younger. Even the teachers used to try and encourage us to think for ourselves and only believe what you have reason to believe.
And finally, i have every right to criticise and question your religious belief, just the same as you have every right to do so my lack of belief. You dont like it, then read another thread
He is entitled to his opinion and if he thinks weezer is not important then who knows he might be right, I know I am not important to many people ....... so what.
You sound like a child, who has just stomped out of a room. (So what).It was a statement that KupKake made, not an opinion.
I make no secret or apology, that i am an atheist. I also believe that religion / in the name of. Does have a lot to answer for. Not every one who commits the atrocities we here of, can be doing it because they are evil, some of them must be true believers, . Also your last sentence. You will say that, as you are one of those ( believers ).
Some of them must be true believers........ Care to inform us of your source of knowledge about this statement.
Weezer you have a great way with words ,, damn your god ,, oops sorry i meant good,, rofl
Some of them must be true believers........ Care to inform us of your source of knowledge about this statement.
Not a statement, more of a question. But some have laid claim to this. Or are they liars.
Yes he did state his opinion and fully entitled to do so. You are entitled to think I sound like a child who has stomped out the room but I am wondering just how that sounds, great image that brings to mind. Dare I say it without a withering comment from you ............... I dont care what you think, you are not that important.
In the eyes of Christ we all are the same, he loves us all equally, but he cannot love those who do not believe in him and accept him as their personal saviour. Thats the whole core principal of christianity, as for the child abuse i dont know where your getting that tripe from, on the rare occasion it does surface its catholic priests who always seem to be guilty. Im not challenging your belief in the slightest, if you want to be an athiest then feel free, im simply saying you should not be challenging the beliefs of everyone who will potentially read this thread, wich in escence is what your doing, if you challenge one persons beliefs you challenge everyones. Am i sitting here trying to convert you to Christ ? No, so im not challenging your personal views, im defending the religious views of those im sure your offending. I mean why start up a thread like this, its pointless. And your not challenging my beliefs in the slightest, my belief system could not possibily be intimidated by someone such as you who seems to know so little about the religions of this world and who blames them for the way the world is. I have no religious beliefs myself anyway, so good luck challenging me to a battle of faith. Im more spiritual than anything, i belong to no religion in any wich way
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 18:45
Some of them must be true believers........ Care to inform us of your source of knowledge about this statement.
Ever hear of the crusades for starters? Blessed by the pope no less
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
I used to have a book on these crusades. Fascinating stuff and shows the incredible narrow mindedness of religious people of the time. it hasnt changed much
Not a statement, more of a question. But some have laid claim to this. Or are they liars.
some of them must be true believers sounds more like a statement but if it is more of a question then what is the question?
Yes he did state his opinion and fully entitled to do so. You are entitled to think I sound like a child who has stomped out the room but I am wondering just how that sounds, great image that brings to mind. Dare I say it without a withering comment from you ............... I dont care what you think, you are not that important.
Can you define, what you mean by. Withering. As it has quite a few meanings. If you mean i am sarcastic, well yes i am, 10 out of 10. To quote a famous line in a film. Quite frankly my dear, i don't give a dam. I am important to who matters most to me.
I have indeed heard of the crusades as im sure any school child who attends religious education has also heard of them, fascinating stuff is right, but thats not to say they are narrow minded, the pope may have been so, but in armys and wars, you do as ordered wether it conflicts with your beliefs or not, and if you dont you then suffer the punishment wich in them days would have been execution, something im sure the people would not have wanted to experiance. I support religion through and through both good and bad. But then im narrow minded of course for having faith in something, wich is a rather wonderful thing. If Christians are narrow minded for wanting to believe in something better than themselves and that there life would not have been for nothing then God Bless them
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 18:55
In the eyes of Christ we all are the same, he loves us all equally, but he cannot love those who do not believe in him and accept him as their personal saviour. Thats the whole core principal of christianity, as for the child abuse i dont know where your getting that tripe from, on the rare occasion it does surface its catholic priests who always seem to be guilty. Im not challenging your belief in the slightest, if you want to be an athiest then feel free, im simply saying you should not be challenging the beliefs of everyone who will potentially read this thread, wich in escence is what your doing, if you challenge one persons beliefs you challenge everyones. Am i sitting here trying to convert you to Christ ? No, so im not challenging your personal views, im defending the religious views of those im sure your offending. I mean why start up a thread like this, its pointless. And your not challenging my beliefs in the slightest, my belief system could not possibily be intimidated by someone such as you who seems to know so little about the religions of this world and who blames them for the way the world is. I have no religious beliefs myself anyway, so good luck challenging me to a battle of faith. Im more spiritual than anything, i belong to no religion in any wich way
Ill dissect this word for word. A retort would be welcome
1: You argue for Jesus and his eternal love, then proclaim no religion affinity. Why would you associate yourself with such tripe as Deuteronomy then proclaim no affiliation???
2: There has been hundreds of cases in just the past few years from the catholic church of child sexual abuse. Yet every child who is indoctrinated in the virtues of faith is a victim of abuse. They are being taught what to think, not how to think, and thats criminal.
3: If you had bothered to read my previous posts you would see I dont blame religion for the ills of the world. I blame it where religion causes problem. Seems natural. No? How you arrived at the conclusion I blame it for all the worlds ills I dont know. You likely just made it up.
4: Again I'll question your beliefs if I wish. You are free to question mine. Only by doing that can anyone renounce or adopt a religion.
5: Im extremely well read in most of th worlds major religions and one or two others you might not have heard of. Hence the reason I say they are nonsense. Can you say the same?
6: Point 1 but with the caveat what exactly do you believe?
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 19:00
I have indeed heard of the crusades as im sure any school child who attends religious education has also heard of them, fascinating stuff is right, but thats not to say they are narrow minded, the pope may have been so, but in armys and wars, you do as ordered wether it conflicts with your beliefs or not, and if you dont you then suffer the punishment wich in them days would have been execution, something im sure the people would not have wanted to experiance. I support religion through and through both good and bad. But then im narrow minded of course for having faith in something, wich is a rather wonderful thing. If Christians are narrow minded for wanting to believe in something better than themselves and that there life would not have been for nothing then God Bless them
Id suggest you look up the word context.
Infact thats probably to subtle. You asked how we knew murders had been commited by true believers. It deosnt get much more clear cut than attempts to take back the holy land from muslims. It was sanctioned by gods representative on earth. Without god appearing and confirming the pope believed in him then we are stuck taking the persons word for it.
Ever hear of the crusades for starters? Blessed by the pope no less
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
I used to have a book on these crusades. Fascinating stuff and shows the incredible narrow mindedness of religious people of the time. it hasnt changed much
The crusades lol where did that come from !!! Ah just noticed wikipedia.org Have I lost the place here, I did not think we were into history. A lot of narrow minded people around and they are not all religious folk either.
You are right, sarcastic is a better word, I would hate to think that you did give a dam about anything written of a forum and I am not being sarcestic when I say that. By the way I love that quote. lol
I defend christianity because i believe it be the better religion out of them all and agree with the teachings of Jesus, that does not mean i believe he existed or that God does, i find christianity to be the most beautiful, it teaches love, acceptance, honour your mother and father (something most in this day and age dont seem to do) among many other beautiful practices. I defend if because the best people i know are christians, yet the worst i know seem to be more like you, athiests with no morals or acceptance of religion who instead wish to see it dead. And as i openly said, in the cases when child abuse has surfaced, wether frequently or not, it has always been catholic priests who are found to be guilty. If you believe you know more religions than i do then feel free to express wich said religions i have not heard of. As for you questioning my beliefs, im not questioning yours in anyway and i stated your not important enough to challenge my beliefs or to make me change my mind, and my beliefs are of great significance to me, so i wont be divulging you in what i do and dont believe so you can insult them, but i will say i believe in many many things, but i do not belong to a religion, everyone can portray their own beliefs however they wish as i do.
Actually you know what i believe in, Zecharia Sitchins alien movement
I defend christianity because i believe it be the better religion out of them all and agree with the teachings of Jesus, that does not mean i believe he existed or that God does, i find christianity to be the most beautiful, it teaches love, acceptance, honour your mother and father (something most in this day and age dont seem to do) among many other beautiful practices. I defend if because the best people i know are christians, yet the worst i know seem to be more like you, atheists with no morals or acceptance of religion who instead wish to see it dead. And as i openly said, in the cases when child abuse has surfaced, wether frequently or not, it has always been catholic priests who are found to be guilty. If you believe you know more religions than i do then feel free to express wich said religions i have not heard of. As for you questioning my beliefs, im not questioning yours in anyway and i stated your not important enough to challenge my beliefs or to make me change my mind, and my beliefs are of great significance to me, so i wont be divulging you in what i do and dont believe so you can insult them, but i will say i believe in many many things, but i do not belong to a religion, everyone can portray their own beliefs however they wish as i do.
So all the worst people you know, have told you they are Atheists, who lack morals, and all the child abusers, are catholic. I think it is you who is insulting
You are right, sarcastic is a better word, I would hate to think that you did give a dam about anything written of a forum and I am not being sarcestic when I say that. By the way I love that quote. lol
Have to agree with you there. :lol:
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 19:41
I defend christianity because i believe it be the better religion out of them all and agree with the teachings of Jesus, that does not mean i believe he existed or that God does, i find christianity to be the most beautiful, it teaches love, acceptance, honour your mother and father (something most in this day and age dont seem to do) among many other beautiful practices. I defend if because the best people i know are christians, yet the worst i know seem to be more like you, athiests with no morals or acceptance of religion who instead wish to see it dead.
No morals! You are incredibly judgemental, just like most religious apologists! I have never killed a soul, raped, robbed, cheated or attacked anyone. Amazingly I have done it without any morals. How do you imagine I have managed to keep a lid on my murderous lust to kill maim and rape all this time? Ill gove you a clue, you can rule out the bible.
And by the way, morals have nothing to do with religion! If they did all those Christians that have had sex before marriage dont seem to have any morals either, despite being good Christians!
Id gamble you support christianity for no other reason than you weer born and raised in a country where the predominant religion is Christianity.
Damn, Id gamble. My lack of morals showing again!
Yes indeed i know wether or not they are non believers, you do tend to find things out people whom you have known for some time. I very well may be insulting, i found it insulting that he started this insane thread to begin with trying to offend people with religious backgrounds and beliefs. Religion plays one of the most significant roles in the world, many world leaders are religious or ex world leaders, The Queen, Barack Obama, George Bush are prime examples. And granted im not an Obama or Bush fan, Religion is still winning the battle it seems considering more than more than half the worlds population believe in some form of deity. Evolution poses no threat at all, there are many Christian Evolutionists
Zecharia Sitchin's theories are not accepted by scientists and academics who dismiss his work as pseudohistory and pseudoscience. Sitchin's work has been criticized for flawed methodology and mistranslations of ancient texts as well as for incorrect astronomical and scientific claims.
Similarly to earlier authors such as Immanuel Velikovsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky) and Erich von Däniken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken), Sitchin advocated theories in which extraterrestrial events supposedly played a significant role in ancient human history. all a bit twighlight zone, but too each their own,,
you are kidding kupkake are you not,, but i suppose as good as the rest of the religions out there.
Weezer most of Britain is Christian or some form of religous belief. I think you'll find more religious people than non believers, maybe you have not done any of the above like killing and rape, but that does not stop you trying to insult the one thing most people consider to be the most important thing in their life wich is faith, any Christian will tell you its the backbone of their life and your trying to challenge their views and thats not immoral ? I disagree, your twisted for trying to destroy the thing that brings many people happiness
I am well aware that Zechariah Sicthins views are not accepted by the scientific community, weezer wanted to know my own personal beliefs and i was been sarcastic, i hardly believe in aliens
yip i didnt think you did ,, you sound much to intelligent for that nonsense..
Do you remember in the far gone days of being students in Caithness. And do you remember history classes the section on the Scottish Wars of Independence (Loaded name!). One of the highlights was an episode called the Douglas Larder. The English had chased away the garrison of Scottish patriots. This annoyed the chief of the Duglas clan (or maybe they were Scottsh Normans nothing remains the same under history's unflinching gaze) and he resloved to be avenged. So he set fire to the place- with the garrison all there. And they of course were burned. I dont know if anyone here has ever seen a burn victim. Horrible way to go. Smells of pork - because the skin of the pig most resembles human skin. Add to that of course screaming bagpipes to drown the anguish of the English.
It ill beehoves(is this a word?) the Scots to criticize the Afghan struggle for independence.
Well, we kids thought this was almost as exciting and glamorous as Bannockburn.
SO why pick on the poor old Afghans who are writing their history as best they can?
We kids in Thurso thought the Scottish War of Independence was just great. Well, I cant speak for everyone but certainly all the boys
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 20:40
Yes indeed i know wether or not they are non believers, you do tend to find things out people whom you have known for some time. I very well may be insulting, i found it insulting that he started this insane thread to begin with trying to offend people with religious backgrounds and beliefs. Religion plays one of the most significant roles in the world, many world leaders are religious or ex world leaders, The Queen, Barack Obama, George Bush are prime examples. And granted im not an Obama or Bush fan, Religion is still winning the battle it seems considering more than more than half the worlds population believe in some form of deity. Evolution poses no threat at all, there are many Christian Evolutionists
There you go again! You theists are just a breed of your own! Please tell me what relevance world leaders being religious are? Is this some sort of theologian x-factor?? Really, utterly preposterous! And this isnt a war!
And to mention that half the world believes in a dietys show that if this was a war then you have already lost. Theists used to unsult other religions, now they happily group them all together in a vain attempt at "we got more men than you, we must be right", a bit akin to the discussions I used to have in th playground!
And to state most of britain is Christian is utterly preposterous. Church attendance is down over 90% on 1945, and bear in mind they had bombs dropping on them,which would lead anyone to prayer!
Tell me, bearing in mind these "facts" of world leaders and numbers, does this have a bearing on your faith or even the truth of, in lieu of any facts may I point out, your faith??
weezer 316
04-Apr-11, 20:42
I am well aware that Zechariah Sicthins views are not accepted by the scientific community, weezer wanted to know my own personal beliefs and i was been sarcastic, i hardly believe in aliens
What about alien lief somewhere in this universe? And surely to god, an extraterrestrial from Rigel's star system is a whole lot more likely than a being more complex and able to design, build and monitor and entire universe and everything in it!?!
secrets in symmetry
04-Apr-11, 20:46
You're doing a grand job here weezy. I admire your indefatigability. Did you get the Viagra that the forum troll's brother in law's GP wouldn't prescribe for him?
weezers keyboard.........[lol][lol][lol]
8895
Got to love you and leave you Weezy, but if you insist on knowing my own personal religious beliefs then fair enough but no, world leaders views have no influence on mine, not so long ago though in regards to you saying most of britain been christian is absurd, Gordon Browns own words were ''Britain is still a christian nation''. But as for my own beliefs, and i am been honest in saying this, something you wont like, i agree word for word with all of my heart every thing the westboro baptist church claims. Im going straight to hell, but i still think they have the right idea. That is my idea of getting the message across, im not a member of the church or the baptist religion, but i believe its the got the right idea
Got to love you and leave you Weezy, but if you insist on knowing my own personal religious beliefs then fair enough but no, world leaders views have no influence on mine, not so long ago though in regards to you saying most of britain been christian is absurd, Gordon Browns own words were ''Britain is still a christian nation''. But as for my own beliefs, and i am been honest in saying this, something you wont like, i agree word for word with all of my heart every thing the westboro baptist church claims. Im going straight to hell, but i still think they have the right idea. That is my idea of getting the message across, im not a member of the church or the baptist religion, but i believe its the got the right idea
So your having a wind up or do you really agree that the Westboro Baptists have the right idea?
I genually think they have the right idea why ? You all going to try and lynch me because of my beliefs ? He asked and i told, try and challenge a set of beliefs like that
They can believe what they like and your right. No one can challenge their commitment to their religion. Psychologically and morally they may have a philosophy based on the bible and their love for Jesus cant be faulted but I wouldn't want to live in a world where the majority of people practised their religion like them.
I dont know why people bother starting threads like this
I think its because its an interesting subject that most people will have thought about at one time or another. Thats why its caught on as a subject of everyday life since the beginning of time. Most religions work if the person believes in them enough. Religions are there to fulfill an inner need and most people have them. Its good that people get a chance to log into religion. If people get extreme about their religion its best to keep a close eye on them. The law is still stronger than belief in a god.
You're doing a grand job here weezy. I admire your indefatigability. Did you get the Viagra that the forum troll's brother in law's GP wouldn't prescribe for him?
Now theres a new word for me. Indefatigability. You learn something new, every day.
Now theres a new word for me. Indefatigability. You learn something new, every day.
Hms Indefatigable was an Aircraft Carrier in WW2, another usless bit of info
Hms Indefatigable was an Aircraft Carrier in WW2, another usless bit of info
Thank you for that golach.
secrets in symmetry
04-Apr-11, 23:07
Now theres a new word for me. Indefatigability. You learn something new, every day.
I'm happy to be of service O polite and gracious atheist lady.
In my rush, I got the quote rather wrong. The correct version is
"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability, and I want you to know that we are with you, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-Quds"
I'm happy to be of service O polite and gracious atheist lady.
In my rush, I got the quote rather wrong. The correct version is
"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability, and I want you to know that we are with you, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-Quds"
Ok smart arse. Whats the gobble de gook, at the end.:)
secrets in symmetry
04-Apr-11, 23:18
Alternatively, as you seem to indicate, Tony Blair kept his beliefs secret when in power and revealed them afterwards. Do you now wonder, after the fact, how those beliefs may have influenced any of his decisions?No, he didn't keep them under wraps in the sense that he hid them. He didn't draw attention to them. Just to be boring, I will quote what I said
"Blair kept his religious zeal under fairly transparent wraps for most of the time he was PM. It was well known that he was close to Catholicism so it was hardly surprising that he converted soon after he stood down as PM."
Of course those beliefs affected his decisions. Witness his unerring belief that he was right to invade Iraq. You have to be religious (or stupid) to have faith like that.
Apologies for effectively telling you to bog off last night. I sometimes forget that not everyone on this forum is an idiot. :D
Ok smart arse. Whats the gobble de gook, at the end.:)
until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem
secrets in symmetry
04-Apr-11, 23:23
Ok smart arse. Whats the gobble de gook, at the end.:)Google it, and look at who said it and to whom.
until victory, until victory, until Jerusalem
Thank you.
athiests with no morals or acceptance of religion who instead wish to see it dead. .
You're talking total twaddle there, I'm an athiest and I don't have morals? what purile nonsence
secrets in symmetry
04-Apr-11, 23:38
Like I have said, she can worship what she wishes, but I dont see oppresive organizations causing bother the world over and venerating an atricious work of fiction, and using it to justify homophobic and sexists practices. When we have a church of crystal which engages in such things as mass child abuse and then to protect the perpitrators then I will attack that also.Lol! You really do like to quote the Old Testament. Christianity is based on the New Testament and, as I claimed in another thread, it has evolved over the last two thousand years because it had to evolve in order to survive.
Saying that, I dont think for a single second crystals have any magical powers and it is like religion in that there isnt any proof of such things.No it's not like religion, it's a million times more deluded than religion. As you and others have pointed out, no-one can prove the Universe wasn't created by a giant weezybug in a dark matter halo around a remote galaxy. Crystals are different. Science can prove that we understand every property of simple solids such as crystals, and we know they don't have healing powers. We know it, we don't need to speculate, so believing that crystals and crystal skulls can heal requires an extreme form of (usually self induced) delusion that puts any God Delusion into perspective.
And I appreciate the point as she clearly thought critically. A welcome step and more than most who worship god have ever done.No-one who thinks critically can possibly believe that crystals have healing powers.
More on that some other time. I can put on my educational hat and become an evangelist for scientific education.
secrets in symmetry
04-Apr-11, 23:39
Thank you.
Thanks indeed to Kells. It appears to have a totally different meaning when quoted out of context, which is delicious.
onecalledk
05-Apr-11, 08:43
Lol! You really do like to quote the Old Testament. Christianity is based on the New Testament and, as I claimed in another thread, it has evolved over the last two thousand years because it had to evolve in order to survive.
No it's not like religion, it's a million times more deluded than religion. As you and others have pointed out, no-one can prove the Universe wasn't created by a giant weezybug in a dark matter halo around a remote galaxy. Crystals are different. Science can prove that we understand every property of simple solids such as crystals, and we know they don't have healing powers. We know it, we don't need to speculate, so believing that crystals and crystal skulls can heal requires an extreme form of (usually self induced) delusion that puts any God Delusion into perspective.
No-one who thinks critically can possibly believe that crystals have healing powers.
More on that some other time. I can put on my educational hat and become an evangelist for scientific education.
"healing powers" covers so much doesnt it? what about plants ? do they have "healing powers" or do they just do what they do ? Goodness in a previous life perhaps you had serious problems with crystals, perhaps you fell into a crystal mine or something and banged your head. I dont believe they have powers, dont be so silly, I use crystals because they work! there is a whole field of therapies where crystals are used because of their structure and the way they conduct energy ......
oop energy, now thats another field as well, you do agree the human body has an energy field dont you? hmmm perhaps not cos you cant actually see it , oh wait yes you can cos you can photograph it, ......
I take exception to being called deluded especially by someone who knows nothing about the subject they have a problem with ...... sigh ..
am now away to lie down with some amethyst on my forehead, well known for cooling and soothing .......... :-)
Indiginous peoples all over the world have used crystals for thousands and thousands of years for their benefits and yet a wee book written and then argued over by men since claims they dont work. So if they dont conduct energy why are they used by the electronics industry ? you cant say ok they work they are in my pc but hold on put them on the human body and nothing happens,,, you cant have it both ways.....
weezer 316
05-Apr-11, 09:12
Got to love you and leave you Weezy, but if you insist on knowing my own personal religious beliefs then fair enough but no, world leaders views have no influence on mine, not so long ago though in regards to you saying most of britain been christian is absurd, Gordon Browns own words were ''Britain is still a christian nation''. But as for my own beliefs, and i am been honest in saying this, something you wont like, i agree word for word with all of my heart every thing the westboro baptist church claims. Im going straight to hell, but i still think they have the right idea. That is my idea of getting the message across, im not a member of the church or the baptist religion, but i believe its the got the right idea
If it wasnt so tragic it would be laughable! You really havent a clue how to put any sort of reasoned argument accross have you?
You accuse me of being an athiest with no morals, I point out I havent murdered anyone or even hurt anyone and ive done it witout morals....a minor miracle I would think! You then, after lambasting my lack of morals, proclaim support for a small fringe group that pickets dead soldiers funerals!! And I have no morals! Incredibly niave or what! Think we wouldnt notice what you said in a previous post or something????
Like most theists, you are a massive hypocrite of the highest order that makes it up as you go along. And that cant be good for the world.
Now if you will excuse me I have 10 woman tied up in my basement. Im going to rape and kill them all..........after I have robbed that bank i have had my eye one for the past month.
Lunatic
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