View Full Version : Alcohol more harmful than heroin ?
Alice in Blunderland
01-Nov-10, 12:21
What do you think of the latest report by Dr Nutt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210
Im wondering if the clue is in his name .................NUTt :confused
Alice in Blunderland
01-Nov-10, 12:23
Or does he have a point ? :confused
teddybear1873
01-Nov-10, 12:52
Or does he have a point ? :confused
I wouldn't know, as I never was a heroin or crack user.
billmoseley
01-Nov-10, 13:23
i think he is saying that there are more illnesses and death from drink than drugs. which i agree with.
neilsermk1
01-Nov-10, 13:33
i think he is saying that there are more illnesses and death from drink than drugs. which i agree with.
So what is his point. There will be more deaths linked to alcohol abuse because of the sheer number of people who drink.
The mere fact that drug taking is illegal will limit the number of people who are users. That number would rise significantly if the use of certain classes of drugs were legalised, and it is almost a racing certainty that the number drug related deaths would increase pro rata.
Personally, I don't put any store in anything this idiot does or has ever said.:roll:
People don't burgle 20 houses a night to pay for alchohol!
onecalledk
01-Nov-10, 14:26
If alcohol was to try to be licenced today it wouldnt be. Many people wrongly assume they can spot an alcoholic. They come in many various forms and cover both sexes and many different age groups. The hard working female boss who comes home everynight to have a bottle of wine with her meal or a few glasses of wine to wind down is on the edge of alcoholism if not in it if she does this every night of the week. Alcohol creeps up on people, unlike other drugs that perhaps have an instant addiction.
It is entirely possible to be medically classed as an alcoholic consuming a glass of wine EVERY day for years. It is only when this glass is taken away the true damage can be seen. Alcohol is not tolerated well at all by the female body yet every weekend we see pubs full of females drinking to excess, the true damage will not show up for a few years but by then will it be too late?
Alcohol is everywhere and there is a social pressure on people to consume it. Alcohol can turn on ANYONE, of ANY age at ANY point in there lives. The government though takes a huge chunk of tax from the sales of alcohol so will go little way to tackle the reasons why people turn to drink in the first place. Why is alcohol and other drug abuse so prevailent in low income areas with little job prospects ? Those who live in these areas see no hope and then are sucked into what is around them. It is no co incidence that alcohol prices in deprived areas are KEPT LOW. If the government was really serious about raising the prices as a deterrent it would cover ALL off licences or outlets but it doesnt.
We get sucked into the hype over "hard " drugs all the while taking our eyes off the legal drug that is slowly taking over ......... Whilst a heroin addict is perhaps more easily spotted an alcoholic isnt .....
A government who makes millions of profit from tobacco and alcohol , 2 very legal and very dangerous drugs is hardly likely to seriously tackle it are they ?
K
This report is on a Social Level only. So in other words since that more people drink to excess than take Heroin it causes more social problems than Herion.
Personally, I don't put any store in anything this idiot does or has ever said.:roll:
People don't burgle 20 houses a night to pay for alchohol!
Very true Ducati.[lol]
Invisible
01-Nov-10, 14:51
Personally, I don't put any store in anything this idiot does or has ever said.:roll:
People don't burgle 20 houses a night to pay for alchohol!
No the NHS just pays them for it.
Maybe it is time to criminalise alcohol? :eek:
And yes, I do like a glass of wine myself but they are few and far between these days and I certainly didn't drink very much at any time in my life, no matter the stresses and heartache I went through although many round me did.
As far as I am concerned it is all part of growing up and facing life's difficulties as well as it's celebrations without the need for alcohol.
I enjoy life without crutches (metaphor) and can remember the happy and fun filled incidents more readily than if I was a regular partaker of a lot of alcohol and no memories of any fun I may have had.
In fact it doesn't take very much to feel happy without drink; better to enjoy the moment and savour it and the latest cause of my happiness was last night at Lyth Art Centre where we had a big party with many musicians from all over Caithness to close the season. There was as many musicians as audience!
And everyone had a good time with great music and much laughter and the after effects are still with me today. I have been listening to recorded music all day, singing along and enjoying cooking and working at home!
Oops, ended up a rant again....:confused
Alice in Blunderland
01-Nov-10, 15:22
No the NHS just pays them for it.
The NHS are hard pushed to fund some medications let alone someone's drinking.
cuddlepop
01-Nov-10, 16:27
Its been said before that if alcohol was discovered in this day and age, its effects would be on par with herion and should be treated as such.:(
billmoseley
01-Nov-10, 16:28
i'll drink to that[lol]
cuddlepop
01-Nov-10, 16:31
Personally, I don't put any store in anything this idiot does or has ever said.:roll:
People don't burgle 20 houses a night to pay for alchohol!
But I've seen someone come into a house looking for it.:(...and only it.
I dont understand how smoking was so far down the list as im sure the costs to society are huge, way more than crack or cocaine.
GuitarHero
01-Nov-10, 17:49
It is a known fact that alcohol is related to more crime, violence, etc than drugs. It's nearly always when someone is drunk they start running riot or turning violent. I can not stand alcohol, I'm tee-total because have saw too many lives messed up with the rotten stuff.
It is a known fact that alcohol is related to more crime, violence, etc than drugs. It's nearly always when someone is drunk they start running riot or turning violent. I can not stand alcohol, I'm tee-total because have saw too many lives messed up with the rotten stuff.
Yeah but one 14 year old female Heroin addict can be a prolonged one person crime wave, needing to steal enough to fund a £1000 a week habit.
I'd probably agree.
Heroin is a pretty big deal in comparison to alcohol, if you bring tobacco, alcohol, heroin and cannabis to the table, I'd still say that heroin is the scariest of those 4 drugs. Tobacco would be second closely followed by alcohol in third. Of course, my opinion is based on my experience with some of these drugs.
However, if one person was taking heroin and the other was taking alcohol, I reckon the results would be equally as frightening. Drunk people are more terrifying that drugged people in my experience.
I think a one person crime wave is not totally inaccurate but a bit harsh when you consider the amount of damage drunk people do week in week out. There are a larger group of drinkers in the UK than there are heroin users so fair enough, the amount of violent crime is a lot higher. Statistics taken from Institute of Alcohol studies say that alcohol related crimes don't always mention that alcohol is involved. There were 52,205 incidents of violence in or around licensed premises in England and Wales between 2003 and 2004. It goes on to state that "Statistics of other alcohol-related offences are not collected per se. Offences such as assault are recorded statistically, but the involvement if any of alcohol in them is not routinely investigated or recorded."
I'm not sure about the statistics for drug related crime in the UK as I cannot find accurate results for a similar timescale, but I wonder if crimes such as burglery by a drug user is recorded as a drug offense? I'm guessing not, but it's an interesting question.
Drugs are all bad on some sort of level, alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, cocaine etc etc, none are immune. It's the government that have told us which drugs are acceptable and which drugs are not and pretty much shaped an opinion of what's right and what's wrong.
The Netherlands is a country tolerent of cannabis use and they make money out of it in taxes. They have the right idea. Go after the big guns selling/taking heroin/crack etc.
People say that cannabis is a drug that will lead onto harder drugs, which is true in some cases. But the same could probably be said about tobacco. There's implications for every type of drug that's legal or illegal.
I think tobacco should be as illegal as cannabis or cannabis should be as legal as tobacco.
Alcohol should be illegal, the only thing that likely stops these these things from happening is how much the government makes in taxes.
Anyway, fair bit of a tangent, take from it what you will.
Scarybiscuits03
01-Nov-10, 19:15
I think tobacco should be as illegal as cannabis or cannabis should be as legal as tobacco.
I have to disagree - Im no smoker and yes tobacco does cause harm to the body but cannabis causes harm to the mind! I know far too many folk that partake in it all to often and they have all become vacant minded idiots!.......
So harm to the mind is a lot worse than harm to the body? You're not really selling the idea to me here.
Being vacant minded is one thing, not being able to breathe because you had a 40 a day habit is quite another.
I'm not knocking your opinion or point of view, perhaps a little bit of a better explanation would shed a bit more light on your view :)
billmoseley
01-Nov-10, 20:01
I have to disagree - Im no smoker and yes tobacco does cause harm to the body but cannabis causes harm to the mind! I know far too many folk that partake in it all to often and they have all become vacant minded idiots!.......
your soo right on this one the long term effects cannabis has is very under stated . i'm in my late 40s and know people with serious mmental problems caused by the stuff.
redeyedtreefrog
01-Nov-10, 20:35
Personally, I don't put any store in anything this idiot does or has ever said.:roll:
People don't burgle 20 houses a night to pay for alchohol!
That's because you don't have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to dodgy drugs lords for alcohol.
That's because you don't have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to dodgy drugs lords for alcohol.
Neither do you or anyone else. Just say no :eek:
Just like everyone should say no to alcohol and tobacco... and probably everything else you think is bad.
Just like everyone should say no to alcohol and tobacco... and probably everything else you think is bad.
Donuts....................
What do you think of the latest report by Dr Nutt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210
Im wondering if the clue is in his name .................NUTt :confused
His name says it all....nutt
I have to disagree - Im no smoker and yes tobacco does cause harm to the body but cannabis causes harm to the mind! I know far too many folk that partake in it all to often and they have all become vacant minded idiots!.......
Mebbe they would have evolved into vacant minded idiots anyway.
Flu virus can affect many people, in epidemic proportions. It can also kill alot of people. But the majority of people who suffer flu recover. It's effects are great because of the numbers it affects. HIV virus affects alot less people ( as it is not as contagious as the flu virus). Without treatment it's affects are catastrofic to those who contract it, with a 100% mortality.
Alcoholism would be the flu. Hard drugs addiction would be HIV/AIDS. One is sever and life threatening to some, but most who aquire/use them suffer no long lasting effects. The other is comparitively rarer, but if you aquire/use it, the effects are inevitably catastrophic.
So you cannot compare, in my opinion, alchohol and hard drugs. They are two completely different beasts.
Scarybiscuits03
02-Nov-10, 12:05
So harm to the mind is a lot worse than harm to the body? You're not really selling the idea to me here.
Being vacant minded is one thing, not being able to breathe because you had a 40 a day habit is quite another.
I'm not knocking your opinion or point of view, perhaps a little bit of a better explanation would shed a bit more light on your view :)
Not everyone smokes 40 a day! I know people that have smoked all of their lives and no probs at all - in fact they are fitter than me! On the other hand ALL of the people I know that enjoy Cannabis come across as vacant and others suffer from mental probs including severe depression.
Smoking cigs are unlikely to affect you in getting a job (unless you suffer from lung/health probs) - whereas Cannabis can, due to the mental side effects and the way you come across......noone wants to hire a druggie!
Just my opinion - I certainly wouldn't employ one!
P.S I also know a few of them that had promising careers but gave them up when they discovered Cannabis........
I'm quite aware that not every person smokes 40 a day.
Not to contradict you, but not all smokers I've met have had some sort of illness related to their habit. And not all drug users I've met have had illnesses related to their cannabis use. I know a lot of people through my previous employment and found a lot of them very fascinating. Some of the most fascinating people were cannabis smokers, and in some cases, it was a recent discovery.
Most of them also smoked tobacco though, so they were damned either way :p
I can tell from your post however, that you're very "anti-drugs" so you're a bit one sided. While I'm not totally pro drugs, I am open to debate on the matter.
Scarybiscuits03
02-Nov-10, 15:29
I can tell from your post however, that you're very "anti-drugs" so you're a bit one sided. While I'm not totally pro drugs, I am open to debate on the matter.
You couldn't be more wrong! [lol]
Im all for the odd smoke but most folk don't know when to stop and thats when they turn into vacant idiots!
teddybear1873
02-Nov-10, 15:42
Mugshots of a young pretty girl Maria Ramos in New York City taken over a 15 year period which shows the harsh effects of drugs abuse. Hopefully life’s roughness as documented visually through these mugshots would deter more young people to say no to drugs.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/teddybear1873/downwardspiral.jpg
George Brims
02-Nov-10, 18:32
Mugshots of a young pretty girl Maria Ramos in New York City taken over a 15 year period which shows the harsh effects of drugs abuse. Hopefully life’s roughness as documented visually through these mugshots would deter more young people to say no to drugs.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/teddybear1873/downwardspiral.jpg
That's not 15 years. That's 15 MONTHS. You can debate alcohol/tobacco vs heroin/cocaine, but crystal meth is a blight on humanity.
teddybear1873
02-Nov-10, 19:22
That's not 15 years. That's 15 MONTHS. You can debate alcohol/tobacco vs heroin/cocaine, but crystal meth is a blight on humanity.
Where you getting the idea thats 15 months?
It's hard to make out the year on the first picture, but it looks like it either says 83 or 93.
teddybear1873
02-Nov-10, 20:17
It's hard to make out the year on the first picture, but it looks like it either says 83 or 93.
Can hardly make out the 8 but the second digit is a 3. The 8 seems clearer in the second pic.
meth does this in a very short space of time:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/body/faces.html
This is her story, very sad,
AT 22, Maria Ramos should have had her whole life to look forward to.
Slim, with a mane of lustrous dark hair, a perfect complexion, bright eyes and sweet smile, she could have been a model.
Instead she chose heroin -- and as this startling sequence of pictures shows, the drug robbed her of her looks and her self-respect. Finally, it took her life.
In the 14 years after the first photograph was taken Maria stopped smiling.
She became sullen and withdrawn, losing all interest in her appearance, with little energy or desire to fight the devastating effects heroin wrought on her body.
First to go was her flawless complexion, then her sparkling gaze, her healthy hair and her slim figure.
By the time the last photograph was taken, when she was 36, she looked more like a bloated hag than a woman in her prime.
Weeks later she was dead.
Now the New York Police Department has compiled the 12 mugshots of Maria into a horrifying montage which starkly illustrates the effects of heroin abuse.
On a visit to the department, Judith Gillespie, head of the Royal Ulster Constabulary drugs squad, was so struck by the montage that she took a copy back to Northern Ireland to use in a hard-hitting anti drugs campaign.
"I brought it home just to remind myself and show others what effect drugs can have," Detective Superintendent Gillespie said. "From a smiling bright-eyed beautiful girl right through the 12 stages to her death, it is a grim reminder of just what can happen if you take drugs."
Maria Ramos came to police attention in April 1983 when she was arrested for soliciting in a notorious drug area of Manhattan. It is not known if she was already a drug user.
NYPD spokesman Walter Burns said: "She may have got involved in prostitution to fund her way through college."
Two years later, in 1985, as the deterioration in her physical appearance shows, she was abusing drugs.
Over the next 12 years her appearance was further ravaged as she was arrested again and again -- almost always for prostitution, occasionally for drugs possession -- and even served a short prison sentence.
Maria fell into a deadly cycle of prostitution to feed her drug habit.
Detective Burns said: "She was heavily into narcotics."
Prolonged hard drug abuse diminishes appetite and encourages apathy which in turn leads victims to neglect personal hygiene and appearance.
Paula Woodward, of the Institute for Studies of Drug Dependency, said: "With chronic frequent use, euphoria is replaced by restlessness, hyper-excitability, nausea, vomiting and weight loss. With continued use this may develop into a state of mind similar to paranoid psychosis."
A clampdown on drug crime has been a major feature of Rudolph Giuliani's time as New York mayor.
Here is a Meth one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E6QK3fsHVA&feature=related
Whats with all the scabs on their faces???
C3..:~(:confused
Probably allucinations that make them scratch at their skin until infected.
teddybear1873
02-Nov-10, 23:05
Whats with all the scabs on their faces???
C3..:~(:confused
Apparently one of the side effects with crystal meth, is that the person thinks they have bugs underneath their skin.
nasty..nasty..nasty...
And shocking how people can go from pretty to pretty awful in months...
Should show the photos in schools!
S1 upwards....
With emphasis on the timescale.....
Kids think they are invincable!
http://static.gigwise.com/gallery/winehouse_doherty1_1.jpg
Now wasn't it the Verve....the drugs don't work.......
teddybear1873
03-Nov-10, 15:59
http://static.gigwise.com/gallery/winehouse_doherty1_1.jpg
Now wasn't it the Verve....the drugs don't work.......
Now there's a fine pair of waste of spaces.
George Brims
03-Nov-10, 17:26
Where you getting the idea thats 15 months?
Because there's a web site that a law enforcement official in the US put together, showing the sequence of deterioration of people using crystal meth from their mug shots. Those sequences showing people going from fairly normal to total wrecks usually take from one to three years. No-one uses crystal meth for 15 years. You either stop using it or it stops you.
Tom Cornwall
03-Nov-10, 20:13
hold on till I set down this glass of Old Pulteney and read the report...:)
teddybear1873
03-Nov-10, 21:05
Because there's a web site that a law enforcement official in the US put together, showing the sequence of deterioration of people using crystal meth from their mug shots. Those sequences showing people going from fairly normal to total wrecks usually take from one to three years. No-one uses crystal meth for 15 years. You either stop using it or it stops you.
Where did you get the info she was meth user? Info I'm getting she was a heroin user.
oldmarine
04-Nov-10, 04:04
I'm of the opinion it's not the alcohol that is the problem as much as the amount consumed. It's the excess that becomes a problem.
radiohead
04-Nov-10, 07:31
A while ago I watched a documentary about drugs, in it they showed a British WW2 veteran who is addicted to medical grade herion and is supplied such on a daily basis. He was shown driving his car with no ill effects and his health is as good, if not better than others of his age. A leading pharmacologist stated that pure heroin is less harmful than sugar gramme for gramme.
Maybe the UK should take a leaf out of Holland and California's book and licence cannabis production, thus raising money to reduce the impact of spending cuts.
Sorry for the stoned ramble, it shows not all pot heads are mentally ill.:eek:
Sorry for the stoned ramble, it shows not all pot heads are mentally ill.:eek:
No, not all but most!!!!
There must be some underlying mental problem for even trying it in the first place. Myself? I dont feel like spending the rest of my life as a Zombie.
C3...:roll:
Radiohead you must have smoked too much because your arguement does not add up.
There is absolutely no corrolation between the heroin addicts good health and the want of cannibis legalisation!
Please compare like to like and not chalk and cheese.
You might as well compare asprin and LSD, at least they share some of their chemical structure!
onecalledk
04-Nov-10, 10:57
surely the point is being missed somewhere along the line. People dont take hard drugs because they wake up one day and think aha I will try some heroin today. Likewise drug dealers dont just have one choice of drug, the teenager (for example) who goes to his dealer for a bit of pot and finds dealer out of said pot but he has "something else" that he could give him is the road to harder drugs.
But having said that each human being is unique in their make up, some people can drink 20 pints and have little effect whilst another can have a sherry and topple. Thats the danger in both the drugs and the drink. NO ONE can know how they will be affected until they partake of either or both.
Crystal meth is one drug that is instantly addictive, someone"trying" this drug is instantly hooked and I believe it is one of the most lethal drugs out there, it can kill in a relatively short time, there are some horrific pictures of people who have torn their skin off due to hallucinations of what is under their skin on this drug.
Surely we need to look at WHY people abuse drink and drugs and not just the availability of either? If people are healthy physically and mentally then they should not need to dabble in either? Remember the lost valium generation, housewives who were prescribed valium but were never reviewed by their doctors? there are many people still living in the UK today who have lost decades due to being addicted to this LEGAL prescription drug ........
It is easy for people to JUDGE another, looking at a drug user lying slumped in the street or staggering around it is easier to think oh my god what an evil person etc. Life circumstances can drive people to the edge. Todays successful business person can be tomorrows alcoholic given the right amount of stress or life events ......
K
George Brims
04-Nov-10, 19:57
Where did you get the info she was meth user? Info I'm getting she was a heroin user.
Mine wasn't info, mine was a guess, based on the well-publicised site I mentioned. You want a sequence on the effects of heroin look at Keef Richards!
George Brims
04-Nov-10, 20:04
A while ago I watched a documentary about drugs, in it they showed a British WW2 veteran who is addicted to medical grade herion and is supplied such on a daily basis. He was shown driving his car with no ill effects and his health is as good, if not better than others of his age. A leading pharmacologist stated that pure heroin is less harmful than sugar gramme for gramme.
Medical grade heroin (dimorphine) used to be prescribed to registered addicts. Has that been abandoned? I've read that the reason Keith Richards is still alive (assuming he is; I've heard varying opinions on that!) is that he never used street heroin, only the medical grade stuff, during his years of addiction to it.
Maybe the UK should take a leaf out of Holland and California's book and licence cannabis production, thus raising money to reduce the impact of spending cuts.
Marijuana is not licensed in California. The proposed law to enable that failed to pass by about a 56-44 margin on Tuesday this week. Medical marijuana is allowed, though where the shops that sell it actually get it is kind of vague. It's supposed to be sold only to those with a prescription, through cooperatives that are supposed to be non-profit. There's been some abuse of the system, inevitably, but it seems to work fairly well for those that need it.
this is worth a watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTH1rbTeqyg&feature=share
loganbiffy
10-Nov-10, 00:18
It's a bit of a pointless debate to be honest.
It's entirely up to every individual what they choose to put in their body.
Saying someone is a waste of space because they like a toke or a line of cocaine is pretty close-minded.
Just because you choose not to do it, doesn't mean that the next person feels the same way.
In my opinion drugs have been put on the planet for a reason.
Whether you choose to take drugs or consume alcohol or not is entirely a free choice, free will.
Live and let live.
It's entirely up to every individual what they choose to put in their body.
No it isn't-it's illegal! Is it "entirely up to every individual" who they murder, rob, rape etc?
The harm of illegal drugs is to society not the individual.
I'm of the opinion it's not the alcohol that is the problem as much as the amount consumed. It's the excess that becomes a problem.
It is a well known fact that some people are are allergic to alcohol in any way shape or form and just one drink is too much.
No it isn't-it's illegal! Is it "entirely up to every individual" who they murder, rob, rape etc?
The harm of illegal drugs is to society not the individual.
So put everyone who has ever swallowed a pint or a pill onto a desert island?
Where then does that leave the folks who have been given the wrong medication from the doctor /s who then go on to prescribe other drugs in order to the rectify the first mistake,
half the people in the country are taking something or other, are they all potential rapists, murderers and whatever?
We could just quarantine the world, I suppose.
loganbiffy
10-Nov-10, 12:46
No it isn't-it's illegal! Is it "entirely up to every individual" who they murder, rob, rape etc?
The harm of illegal drugs is to society not the individual.
Society is nothing to rave about pal.
I know literally hundreds of people who have taken/still take drugs and have never murdered, raped or robbed anyone.
It's just totally narrow-minded to think that everyone who takes drugs or alcohol is some mad murdering rapist.
And who cares if it's illegal? People are ALWAYS going to rebel. We are supposed to live in a world of so called free-will.
Alcohol harms society a lot more than you seem to realise, but is it outlawed? No, because the government make a tidy profit from taxes on it.
Why judge people on what they choose to do with their lives? It is none of your concern.
Society is nothing to rave about pal.
I know literally hundreds of people who have taken/still take drugs and have never murdered, raped or robbed anyone.
It's just totally narrow-minded to think that everyone who takes drugs or alcohol is some mad murdering rapist.
And who cares if it's illegal? People are ALWAYS going to rebel. We are supposed to live in a world of so called free-will.
Alcohol harms society a lot more than you seem to realise, but is it outlawed? No, because the government make a tidy profit from taxes on it.
Why judge people on what they choose to do with their lives? It is none of your concern.
I'm no strict comformist, but I recognise the massive proportion of the world's ills that are directly caused by the illegal drug trade. Every single person who buys illegal drugs perpetuates this, and then says I'm not harming anyone else-tosh:Razz
Every single person who buys illegal drugs perpetuates this, and then says I'm not harming anyone else-tosh:Razz
So growing your own weed for your own personal use is ok then.
loganbiffy
10-Nov-10, 22:52
I'm no strict comformist, but I recognise the massive proportion of the world's ills that are directly caused by the illegal drug trade. Every single person who buys illegal drugs perpetuates this, and then says I'm not harming anyone else-tosh:Razz
It's never going to go away mate, deal with it.
The government also control a large percentage of the illegal drugs that come into the country.
If you want to take illegal drugs that is your choice, it is none of my business and vice versa.
Too many people pay more attention to other people's lives rather than their own.
We will agree to disagree, I believe in free will.
It's never going to go away mate, deal with it.
The government also control a large percentage of the illegal drugs that come into the country.
If you want to take illegal drugs that is your choice, it is none of my business and vice versa.
Too many people pay more attention to other people's lives rather than their own.
We will agree to disagree, I believe in free will.
That was why I made the comparison to murderers, rapists and robbers.
I want to do it so I will.
One of these days society as a whole will decide we don't need people who put us all at risk for their own selfish gratification.
loganbiffy
11-Nov-10, 01:34
That was why I made the comparison to murderers, rapists and robbers.
I want to do it so I will.
One of these days society as a whole will decide we don't need people who put us all at risk for their own selfish gratification.
Society isn't going to decide anything. Everyone on the planet does their own thing, it's the way the world works.
I'm sorry you don't like it but that's life mate.
If you honestly think everyone who likes to party and take drugs is a killer or a rapist then it's you who needs your head checked.
I've never heard so much nonsense.
Aaldtimer
11-Nov-10, 04:16
Society isn't going to decide anything. Everyone on the planet does their own thing, it's the way the world works.
I'm sorry you don't like it but that's life mate.
If you honestly think everyone who likes to party and take drugs is a killer or a rapist then it's you who needs your head checked.
I've never heard so much nonsense.
And if you think that all that is harmless, and OK, then you are mistaken.
Just check-out what's going on in Mexico, Columbia, on the streets of UK, the misery, burglary, muggings etc. to feed these habits...it all has consequences...but that's OK by you eh?[disgust]
Society isn't going to decide anything. Everyone on the planet does their own thing, it's the way the world works.
I'm sorry you don't like it but that's life mate.
If you honestly think everyone who likes to party and take drugs is a killer or a rapist then it's you who needs your head checked.
I've never heard so much nonsense.
OK. you fail to grasp the simple concept of a comparison (I refuse to speculate on the reason for this ;)).
Let's try a different tack. I accept that not all drug addicts are criminals (apart from the criminal act of buying, or growing and taking illegal drugs). But have you any explanation for the fact that the vast majority of criminals in our jails and currently in the judicial system; Asbos, bail, community sentences etc. are drug addicts as well?
loganbiffy
11-Nov-10, 13:16
And if you think that all that is harmless, and OK, then you are mistaken.
Just check-out what's going on in Mexico, Columbia, on the streets of UK, the misery, burglary, muggings etc. to feed these habits...it all has consequences...but that's OK by you eh?[disgust]
I never said it was all harmless but the majority of drug users are not raping murderers. I accept the fact the some drug addicts do indeed steal and harm people but how about not tarring everyone with the same brush?
Alcohol causes way more violence then drug use and over trivial things like football.
People accept alcohol is fine as it is legal, where as drugs are not.
Consuming alcohol also has consequences, ever consider that?
Like I said as well, nothing is going to change, the government let a certain amount of drugs into the country, so go take it up with them.
And all this nonsense about society. Society was screwed long before recreational drugs came on the scene.
loganbiffy
11-Nov-10, 13:20
OK. you fail to grasp the simple concept of a comparison (I refuse to speculate on the reason for this ;)).
Let's try a different tack. I accept that not all drug addicts are criminals (apart from the criminal act of buying, or growing and taking illegal drugs). But have you any explanation for the fact that the vast majority of criminals in our jails and currently in the judicial system; Asbos, bail, community sentences etc. are drug addicts as well?
You want a tissue to wipe away the tears because it's not a perfect world we live in?
I would also say that a lot of people in prison are drug addicts, the chances are pretty high that they first took drugs while under the supervision of HRH.
Like I said anyway, it isn't going to go away, you just have to accept it and get on with things. Alcohol is a bigger killer yet it is perfectly legal as the government make a killing on taxes.
loganbiffy
11-Nov-10, 13:23
Sigh, I give up. :lol:
Somehow I doubt that ;)
oldmarine
11-Nov-10, 17:31
It is a well known fact that some people are are allergic to alcohol in any way shape or form and just one drink is too much.
Those people should stay away from alcohol definitely. Only they can control what they do.
It's a bit of a pointless debate to be honest.
It's entirely up to every individual what they choose to put in their body.
Saying someone is a waste of space because they like a toke or a line of cocaine is pretty close-minded.
Just because you choose not to do it, doesn't mean that the next person feels the same way.
In my opinion drugs have been put on the planet for a reason.
Whether you choose to take drugs or consume alcohol or not is entirely a free choice, free will.
Live and let live.
Is it also up to the individual what they want to DO with their body? ie child abuse, as above, rape, murder, steal? has the ability to do all thiose things also been put on the planet for a reason? Of course drugs are there for a reason - to save lives. the abuse of, is the rot of society.
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