Frozen dog meat???

[dbooth82]

hi every1 does any1 no of another place or good website to get frozen chunks of meat from for my dog? i sometimes get bags from pets at home which he loves but they dont always have a steady supply off it and i end up just getting alot of steak from the butchers which isnt cheap! if anybody can help plz feel free to leave a comment! thanks..

[111heather]

why dont you ask the butcher for dog mince

[unicorn]

My dogs love the butchers dog mince, it's me that has the problem cooking it :eek:

[Incognit0]

My dogs love the butchers dog mince, it's me that has the problem cooking it :eek:

Feed raw - the dogs love it and it's nutritionally better for them...

[unicorn]

I was going to but my butcher reckoned better cooked as it is all the things we don't eat.

[Sarah]

I was going to but my butcher reckoned better cooked as it is all the things we don't eat.

But dogs would have eaten raw in the wild, its rally good for them!

I'm so sad we don't have a butchers :(

[dbooth82]

hi i feed him the meat raw and he wont eat dogs mince. tried that 1 ages ago. thanks for suggestions tho.

[rhino]

If you are able to store bulk, then pets at home can order extra especially for you, just they cant hold it when it arrives.

[dbooth82]

hi there i ast them before but they said they dont always get the orders in as D STEVENS pick it up for them when there passing that way. cheers for the info tho.

[_Ju_]

Feed raw - the dogs love it and it's nutritionally better for them...

why do you think raw mince is more nutritional? :confused

[teenybash]

why do you think raw mince is more nutritional? :confused

I believe cooked meat loses some of its nutritional value.......:)

[_Ju_]

Belief has to do with faith and not with the science of nutrition.
While some enzymes and vitamins might be inactivated by cooking (and we are talking about domestic cooking and not industrial persevative cooking, so that is a big might), you have to consider what you are actaully getting in butchers mince. You are getting alot of cartilage, fat and meat that is starting to "go off". While all meat in a butcher is health inpected at an abbattoir, therefore little liklihood of parasites, that is not a guarantee of the absence of parasites. There is not even the advantage of large bones in the mince that would give a dog a jaw work out for cleaner teeth.

So your belief system ( of the higher nutritional value of raw meat) is to be balances against the scientific evidence ( which does not find there to be lesser nutritional value to cooked meat), the higher ratio of undigestible parts, higher incidence of food poisoning organisms and not even, in this case, the advantage of large unbreakable bones (because bones that can be broken and eaten kill dogs- I have seen it, in person, more than once). That is alot of faith to have, Teeny.

[crustyroll]

Hi, there are a couple of us just going to place an order this weekend with Fife Animal Feeds and he will deliver to Caithness. The raw food is better quality than Pets at Home. We really need as many people as possible to help us place an order as Pets at Home cant supply enough for the demand needed. No disrespect to P@H as I often shop there but the manufacturer of the frozen food is known in the industry as not being the best manufacturer of frozen raw food.

[crustyroll]

So your belief system ( of the higher nutritional value of raw meat) is to be balances against the scientific evidence ( which does not find there to be lesser nutritional value to cooked meat), the higher ratio of undigestible parts, higher incidence of food poisoning organisms and not even, in this case, the advantage of large unbreakable bones (because bones that can be broken and eaten kill dogs- I have seen it, in person, more than once). That is alot of faith to have, Teeny.

Can you tell me where there is scientific evidence (and not ultimately funded by pet food manufacturers) that proves the above?

Do you feed raw? Have you seen the advantages of feeding raw? There are disadvantages to all feeding systems, many dogs choke on dry food and get bloat. Lots of people feed their dogs cooked meat and then go on to say they get the runs, it's because the meat is cooked and there stomachs are designed to handle raw meat and bones. Their digestive systems are much shorter than ours and when the food is of correct natural nutritional value then less waste is produced at the other end as the body is using and digesting it properly.

[_Ju_]

If you had read my post I excluded industrial cooking (ie commercial pet food). :roll:
My professional experience has taught me very well what barf diets (that include chewable bone) do. My professional training covered nutrition for animals. Where is your scientific evidence that raw meat is more nutritious?

[dbooth82]

Hi, there are a couple of us just going to place an order this weekend with Fife Animal Feeds and he will deliver to Caithness. The raw food is better quality than Pets at Home. We really need as many people as possible to help us place an order as Pets at Home cant supply enough for the demand needed. No disrespect to P@H as I often shop there but the manufacturer of the frozen food is known in the industry as not being the best manufacturer of frozen raw food. hi crustyroll sent u a pm!:D:D

[crustyroll]

Hi, if anyone else is interested can they email me asap as the an order has to be in this weekend and I can give more details.

[crustyroll]

If you had read my post I excluded industrial cooking (ie commercial pet food). :roll:
My professional experience has taught me very well what barf diets (that include chewable bone) do. My professional training covered nutrition for animals. Where is your scientific evidence that raw meat is more nutritious?

Well I have to be honest and say that I have no 'professional training' in this area but I do have years of experience and can see the excellent results in my dogs which no scientific paper can show. Most studies are privately funded by pet food manufacturers and a lot of the training given on nutrion, when you dig deep enough are funded by the pet food manufacturers again. Isn't it ironic that Mars who make pedigree chum etc know that dry food causes plaque and tarter on dogs teeth. So what do they do, they make another product to sell and make more profit, to help clean the dogs teeth, ie, Dental chews.

I have researched both sides of the argument and still come down to feeding raw and the obvious improvement to my animals. Can you tell me some of the disadvantages to feeding raw that my animals must be subjected to as that is their diet?

[Incognit0]

The cooking/raw debate is less about nutrition and more about what is biologically appropriate. Dogs find raw food easier to digest and as a result there is less tummy upset and their stools are considerably firmer.

BARF stands for biologically appropriate raw food (not bones and raw food as some think) - the whole biologially appropriate part is us feeding dogs food that their digestive system was designed to process. And this is not cooked meat.

[_Ju_]

If you are going to feed you animal rubbish, be it a comercial feed or raw, do not expect them to be healthy. For all the bad gyp that comercial feeds get, even the very lowest and basic muck you can think of, I have never seen a commercial feed create an acute life threatening problem (might have happened, I just have never seen it). I have seen barf diets kill dogs from one day to another (peritonitis). Not only once, but several times a year in a relatively small practice. That is evidence enough for me that a barf diet might not be as barf as some think.

Don't forget that the meat you are feeding your dog raw is not a rabbit or someother animal living wild in normal population densities. They are intensively farmed animals, meat that has been cold held for periods much longer that a piece of meat in the wild would keep before becoming unconsumable and also parts of carcase that do not have the natural poportions of meat/bone/connective tissue. Even raw, it is not the biologically appropriate diet you think it might be. It is a very different from the diet a wild dog or wolf would have.

[crustyroll]

I have never seen a commercial feed create an acute life threatening problem (might have happened, I just have never seen it).

So you have never seen bloat? I have never known of a dog to get bloat from eating a barf diet but I have known dogs getting bloat from eating a commercial diet, be it expensive or rubbish, there is usually no distinction.


Don't forget that the meat you are feeding your dog raw is not a rabbit or someother animal living wild in normal population densities.

How do you know I don't feed my dogs rabbits whole so that they are eating what they would in the wild? I don't go to Tesco's or the Co op and buy packs of meat to feed my dogs. They get tripe, rabbit, chicken, heart, lungs, bones, kidney, liver, muslce meat, tendons, cartlidge, so I think they are getting pretty much most of the animal and it's whats fed long term rather than short term that benefits their health. They wouldn't eat a whole carcass in one day, unless it was a pack, they would bury part of it and probably go back to it and remember they are selective in what part of the animal they eat first and not all dogs eat all parts of an animal, scraps are left for others.

[_Ju_]

So you have never seen bloat?
Are you talking about bloat followed by stomach torsion? If so there is a link with gas producing foods or dry foods with certain perservatives (usually found in the cheapest dry foods, FYI). However there are many many reasons for gastric dilation and torsion, many of which have to happen in a chain. The most important one of which is genetics. Genetically we produced deep chested animals with longer gastric ligaments when we bred these susceptable breeds. Ultimately yes we are responsible because we breed defects into our dogs (defects that we cannot see, that are associated with the standards trying to be acheived). Even then there is the requirement of excercise after feeding. Dry food is not always (or even usualy) present in cases of stomach dilation and torsion. Where as the long stomach ligament, deep chest and "boisterosity" always is.
By the way, out of curiosity, why are the unbiquitous canned humid foods not as vilified by barfers when, in my opinion, they are alot worse than most dried foods?




How do you know I don't feed my dogs rabbits whole so that they are eating what they would in the wild?

Fife animal food products:

Best Tripe, Puppy Tripe, and Tripe Chunks
Minced Chicken, Lamb, Beef and Venison etc
Knuckle Bones, Ribs and Hooves, Pigs Ears
Chicken Wings, Carcasses,Turkey Necks, Chicken Necks and Fillets dried Food, Biscuits and Mixer
You might buy them from somewhere else, but no....these guys dinna sell rabbits, so I know that you do not always feed your dogs wild rabbits (even if they did sell rabbits, they would be industrially farmed rabbit). Which means I have come to an unaddressed point: every product above is produced intensively, and therefore much more likely to carry food bourne diseases than a wild carcase would.

I am not going to convert you and I can tell you right now that there is nothing anyone can say that would change what I know to be true about what we feed our dogs. Have you ever see a 6 month old golden retiever die from one time he scarfed a chicken bone from the bin? I have. He was in agony and no one could do anything for him. He had the "pleasure" of 6 months of cronic peritonitis that was caused by an undetectable splintered piece of chicken bone. Yet chicken wings are on the menu of a natural healthy diet? Have you ever cleared the impacted anal passage of a dog who pulverises bones? It's one of those jobs that you have to see and smell to appreciate.

This thread began with the DOMESTIC cooking of butchers mince being discussed. It was defended that this is less nutritional. The science does not defend this position. The cooking can resolve the possibility of food bourne diseases and better the digestibility of the mince. By all means feed your dog meat and/or offal, it is not only good for them, but they love it! But THINK about what is in it. Could it have salmonella, campylobacter, E Coli or some other disease that could make your pet or your family ill? Could it contain parasites that were missed at inspection? Could it contain bones? This discussion has verred off into me somehow in the dried foods corner against the "BARFers". I can only say that there are alot of different kinds of dried food. In the dry pet food arena you basically get what you pay for. Just like what happens in human food shopping oddly enough! ;)

[Incognit0]

Don't forget that the meat you are feeding your dog raw is not a rabbit or someother animal living wild in normal population densities.

I actually do feed my dogs whole rabbit, they also have whole chicken carcasses (minus the breasts and legs) and take for themselves the occasional (read frequent :roll:) rat.

My dogs are vaccinated and wormed regularly and have a regular digestive system and a lovely gloss to their coat (without the film that you get with commercially prepared dog food - go and stroke your dog, do you feel that residue on your hand? You don't get that with a mainly BARF diet).

E Coli, Campylobacter and C diff are not diseases that affect healthy dogs - canine digestive systems cope with bacteria like this much better than humans - my dogs have eaten all sorts on walks (half dead deer, rotting fish, you name it!) and they have never had diarrhoea or sickness.

My dogs also have a their diet supplemented with a small amount of cereal based working dog food - basically to get their cereals into them....

I do agree with you about the whole tinned food thing - bad, but I can't find anywhere on the thread where a BARFer is advocating it.

[Aaldtimer]

..."half dead deer"...??? The mind boggles!!!:eek:

[_Ju_]

I actually do feed my dogs whole rabbit, they also have whole chicken carcasses (minus the breasts and legs) and take for themselves the occasional (read frequent :roll:) rat.


My dogs also have a their diet supplemented with a small amount of cereal based working dog food - basically to get their cereals into them....

I do agree with you about the whole tinned food thing - bad, but I can't find anywhere on the thread where a BARFer is advocating it.

I am very glad that you have never had the negative experience of splintered chicken bones ( rabbit can also be a risk, thou they tend to make less sharp splinters) or impacted feaces in any of your dogs. May it never happen though I wouldn't take that bet on an animal of mine.
Cereal is pretty much undigestible for dogs. Vegetable based dog food would be better. Or whole grain rice based.
I never said anything about BARFers supporting tinned food. What I said was BARFers are decrying dried foods ( which this thread was not about, but yes about cooking meat domestically) as if I were defending them all. Yet alot worse than most dreid foods, even the muck of them, is tinned food, yet absolute silence over them. Reading a post in it's entirety instead of diagonally might save you time searching threads.