View Full Version : Mushrooms are magic
I read an interesting wee ditty in a magazine today. It suggested that research showed that almost two thirds of people who were given the active ingredient of magic mushrooms (psilocybin) had a full mystical experience. One third of these said that the trip was the most spiritually significant of their lives. I dont know what the laboratary conditions were, nor the numbers involved, but I recognise the experience from my own dabbling with hallucigenics, over 30 years ago.
Considering the present state of the world, and the part played in it by our own leaders, does anyone think it may be an idea to spike their G&Ts with a small amount of psilocybin?
Maybe then, could God truly save the world?
Billy Boy
16-Jul-06, 21:14
what makes you think they aint already useing them in their G+T's lol, they have been on their own little planet for years[lol] [lol]
I read an interesting wee ditty in a magazine today. It suggested that research showed that almost two thirds of people who were given the active ingredient of magic mushrooms (psilocybin) had a full mystical experience. One third of these said that the trip was the most spiritually significant of their lives. I dont know what the laboratary conditions were, nor the numbers involved, but I recognise the experience from my own dabbling with hallucigenics, over 30 years ago.
Considering the present state of the world, and the part played in it by our own leaders, does anyone think it may be an idea to spike their G&Ts with a small amount of psilocybin?
Maybe then, could God truly save the world?
There is a school of thought that all the worlds religions are based on hallucigenic substances. They say manna from Heaven was a psycodelic mushroom. Could explain why they were wandering around in circles for forty years.
There is a school of thought that all the worlds religions are based on hallucigenic substances. They say manna from Heaven was a psycodelic mushroom. Could explain why they were wandering around in circles for forty years.
God's flesh is one of its names in Mexico I believe. The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Allegro certainly links the mushroom to the Essenes via the Dead Sea Scrolls and it has often been said that thwe Viking berserkers were charged up on Amanitas Muscarina. I have eaten more mushrooms than most I have met and the spiritual aspect of the experience changed me forever. Perhaps our leaders do need some sort of psychotropic assistance but I think their reaction to the mushroom would be less than desirable. It takes an open mind and a firm reality picture to handle this particular drug.
.
The only mushrooms I've experienced are the closed cup variety - I usually sautee them in butter & garlic and serve with the best of George Harper's fillet steak & the rest of the trimmings. Magic! They're especially magic when served to a large gathering of family/friends accompanied with copious supply of red wine, etc.
Gleeber & Gleber2 have alluded to mystical/spiritual experiences with hallucinogens - I'm intrigued to know if their experiences enhanced their lives in any way. QUOTES- " recognise the experience from my own dabbling with hallucigenics, over 30 years ago" & "It takes an open mind and a firm reality picture to handle this particular drug" - respectively.
I'm not being funny here - I've got an open mind & am pretty much grounded in reality. I'd be seriously interested to know if these two guys would actually advocate that we all try some form of hallucinatory substance sometime in our lifetime (and I don't mean alcohol) just to experience what it's all about? If not, why not?
As for God, the Government aka our leaders, etc. - that's a whole new thread - keen to know about the magic mushrooms first. :D
A right can of worms you have opened here. I will have to sleep on your questions and answer in the morning.
Gleeber, can you give us the name of the magazine? The monthly newsletter from the Dunnet Lighthouse isn't sufficient evidence to support your claim.
You speak of a mystical experience and a spiritual experience. Did the article define those terms or give examples as to what was experienced? When we had that Science and Religion thread going a few months back, Rheghead brought out some thoughts on the chemistry of emotions. I have done a bit of reading in the area. Certainly the whole field of neuropeptides and receptors has opened up the understanding of chemical reactions in the body. Mostly what they do is block the normal functioning of the chemical pathways in the brain and affected organs. What the body experiences is an interference rather than an addition to its normal working self. I understand mystical and spiritual experience to be an affect on the body from without it not an internal jumbling of what is already there.
The spiritual events that are described in a chemically induced state are from my observation very internal and self oriented. They are not outward focussed, nor do they normally result in a change of orientation to focus on good works in the spirit of the diety that is being claimed as the source of the spiritual intervention. In other words, they are selfish. For me, true spiritual experience is for the good of humanity, not something confined to the person eating magic mushrooms.
I am sure that we shall talk some more.
Considering the present state of the world, and the part played in it by our own leaders, does anyone think it may be an idea to spike their G&Ts with a small amount of psilocybin?
Not a good idea. Some political leaders are out of touch with reality enough as it is, without the help of hallucigenics! :roll:
Moira first. I wouldnt advocate the use of any drugs. Whether people take alcohol or cannabis or magic mushrooms is purely a matter of personal choice. Drugs never enhanced my life in any way.
I know from my own personal experiences I would rather hallucigenic drugs, if they were to be used, were used in a clinical environment.
I recall reading something years ago about some research being carried out on jailed prisoners in the USA where controlled use of LSD was found to have astonishing effects on the behaviour of the prisoners. Unfortunately, the leader of the research got a bit carried away with himself and the American establishment withdrew his research grants and he got as high as a kite for the rest of his life. I dont advocate that type of behaviour either.
If clinically controlled tests were to be done on consenting adults by responsable researchers I would have no problem with that.
I believe spirituality is an important part in the growth of a human being. Our bottled spirituality, at the moment, does not attract many converts. People have to dig very deep to come to terms with what organised religion is telling them. I often wonder how many church goers have been touched by what the article was describing as a mystical experience. I am aware that is judgmental, but sometimes personal experiences need to be trusted just for what they are, with or without drugs.
Canuck, The magazine was The New Scientist, 15th July edition. It was just a wee ditty but I imagine any compitant googler would be able to find out more.
I believe spirituality is an important part in the growth of a human being. Our bottled spirituality, at the moment, does not attract many converts. People have to dig very deep to come to terms with what organised religion is telling them. I often wonder how many church goers have been touched by what the article was describing as a mystical experience. I am aware that is judgmental, but sometimes personal experiences need to be trusted just for what they are, with or without drugs.
Interestingly, the world's (possibly) and most supported religion by its followers generally does not touch alcohol. So their spiritual experience and belief is unhindered by chemicals.
Not sure what they smoke, though. ;)
connieb19
17-Jul-06, 09:15
Maybe this is similar to the article Gleeber read!!!
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/46241.html
I wouldnt advocate the use of any drugs. Whether people take alcohol or cannabis or magic mushrooms is purely a matter of personal choice. Drugs never enhanced my life in any way.
I know from my own personal experiences I would rather hallucigenic drugs, if they were to be used, were used in a clinical environment.
I believe spirituality is an important part in the growth of a human being. Our bottled spirituality, at the moment, does not attract many converts. People have to dig very deep to come to terms with what organised religion is telling them. I often wonder how many church goers have been touched by what the article was describing as a mystical experience. I am aware that is judgmental, but sometimes personal experiences need to be trusted just for what they are, with or without drugs.
Gleeber, I am curious, why would an intelligent man such as yourself ever consider the use of these so called "Magic Mushrooms", and the other illeagal drugs you freely admit to having dabbled in?
Was it just because your were a natural born rebel? Rebelling against the Calvanistic County we were born in. Or were you going down the road to spiritual enlightenment?
We both come form similar upbringing and I have never touched any illeagal enhancing elements in my life.The thought of sticking a needle in myself is totally abhorant to me. I admit freely to ejoying a Beer of two in the company of good friends and for the Crack, the John Barleycorn, I can take or leave, usually that only comes out when a Caithness visitor arrives. But I take a glass of wine now and again to aid the digestion of course.
I have never found the need for spiritual enlightenment in my life, my spritual uplifts are my Grandaughters and my family,
Was Caithness so bad you had to go to the excesses and seek a solution in drugs?
Gleeber I am not having a go at you, I am genuinely curious
Golach, I agree with your comments re your Granddaughters and your family being your spiritual uplifts.
As a child I was told "God is Love" and I believe that anyone experiencing love experiences the ultimate.
In this life we will come across many things that give us "experiences" of one kind or another, be it music, dance, alcohol, hallucigenics, people or nature. Nothing wrong with any of them in moderation but it is such a shame that some people try to find more self-gratification by the misuse of any of these.
Ann
Blazing Sporrans
17-Jul-06, 12:44
I heard about a guy in Shetland a few years ago who used hallucinogens such as magic mushrooms and apparently did so on a larger scale than most. The fellow is supposed to have mutilated himself to a horrendous degree, ramming articles into various orifices in his body and then attempting to sever his own genitalia. I heard he told the doctors that he was trying to get to Heaven and that he had 'revelations' (while tripping of course) that told him the more he suffered, the sooner he would get there. Sounds like a real mystical/religious experience to me.....
Moira first. I wouldnt advocate the use of any drugs. Whether people take alcohol or cannabis or magic mushrooms is purely a matter of personal choice. Drugs never enhanced my life in any way.
I know from my own personal experiences I would rather hallucigenic drugs, if they were to be used, were used in a clinical environment.
I recall reading something years ago about some research being carried out on jailed prisoners in the USA where controlled use of LSD was found to have astonishing effects on the behaviour of the prisoners. Unfortunately, the leader of the research got a bit carried away with himself and the American establishment withdrew his research grants and he got as high as a kite for the rest of his life. I dont advocate that type of behaviour either.
If clinically controlled tests were to be done on consenting adults by responsable researchers I would have no problem with that.
I believe spirituality is an important part in the growth of a human being. Our bottled spirituality, at the moment, does not attract many converts. People have to dig very deep to come to terms with what organised religion is telling them. I often wonder how many church goers have been touched by what the article was describing as a mystical experience. I am aware that is judgmental, but sometimes personal experiences need to be trusted just for what they are, with or without drugs.
Canuck, The magazine was The New Scientist, 15th July edition. It was just a wee ditty but I imagine any compitant googler would be able to find out more.
Gleeber, the saddest aspect of my professional life is the realization that the church has become an instrument of repression for the beautiful, creative, joyous, loving human spirit. I agree with your suggestion that personal experiences do need to be trusted, although I would still want to see some discernment if there was an attempt to make them into something they might not be.
LSD, under controlled conditions, did have some excellent results in the treatment of personality disorders. The body's natural chemical blockade, which unhealthily protects some really negative life experiences, can be penetrated with the drug. From that experience psychologists have developed "drugless" forms of psychotherapy which have proven very valuable in releasing the "bottled up spirit."
... Rebelling against the Calvanistic County we were born in. Or were you going down the road to spiritual enlightenment?
I would like to suggest that the "Calvinism" that is so maligned by modern society is really a long way from the faith which Calvin taught. Calvin is the one who fought to free the human spirit from its negative religious bondage. He was the one who told us that the human purpose was to "enjoy" life. Yes, be responsible in how we did it, but still to be all that we were created to be and that included a life of joyfulness.
The earliest expression of the Christian Church in Scotland was that of the Celtic tradition. It was quite compatible with the earlier druid practises of a synergy with nature, humans and god. After the Council of Whitby it began to decline and all but disappeared by the year 1000. I think that rather than dead, the Celtic spirit was only dormant and with the Reformation and the work of John Knox (Calvin in Scotland), it began to come alive again. Okay, so maybe it has disappeared again in our day. Maybe Calvinism has become a repressive word. For that I express disappointment because Celtic Christianity and Calvinism were both once spirit freeing, spirit building, human affirming, individual supporting pathways of faith.
People have been ingesting power plants for centuries beyond count. Equally so people have not been ingesting power plants for centuries beyond count. Some people are drawn towards these "drugs" and others are not. Some people take something like the Pixie Cap mushroom once from curiosity and never take it again. Some people take it once and never stop. To each his own. Everyone who takes a psychedelic substance experiences a different "trip". Some experience absolute horror and some see God.
I would never encourage another person to try any drug. This decision is for the individual only. All of the books are written by observers, not participants and, as such, can only paint one side of the picture. Most of the people who are opposed to the taking of drugs, on this forum at least, are going on the words of others and not from personal knowledge. It takes a certain kind of mind to use and learn from the Magic Mushroom and, those who have not been blessed(or cursed) with this sort of mind are advised to leave them alone. These funghi grow in my garden. I find it funny, in a perverted sort of way, that someone in London can tell me that they are illegal. They grow on golf courses, church grounds, meadows, in private gardens and in many other places. If there is indeed a deity who created everything then perhaps he had a purpose for these Liberty caps. They are now considered class A. In the kitchens of most people you will find whole nutmegs. The nutmegs are legal but they are also a drug which, when abused, can cause mental trauma and blindness. We do not find a lobby agitating for the banning of nutmeg.
Every person who lives has a different slant on what is and what is not spiritual and the validity of spiritual revelation is always doubted by those who have not experienced one. Each to his own. Many are the roads from Thurso to London but no matter how you get there the destination is the same.
There is one thing, however, which in my opinion is beyond dispute and that is the fact that no-one ever experienced a spiritual high from the two most widely used drugs in our society ie tobacco and alcohol( beer does contain a mild psychedelic drug however) but countless thousands have had their lives wrecked or lost because of them. I have not heard of many people getting ill or dying from the Mushroom. Everything which we eat or drink has an effect on our minds and our bodies. What is therefore a drug and what isn't?
From Golach we get the usual stories when this subject arises. His drams and his family are enough for him. Good for him!!!! Neither myself or Gleeber have ever stuck needles into ourselves and never will. Broaden your knowledge base if you want to be listened to, my owld mate. By the way, what is your attitude to drugs which are not illegal? Salvia Divinorum is a plant which is legal and can be purchased legally. It was the drug used by the Aztecs to induce their visions and it is incredibly strong. Much more so than cannabis or mushrooms. In your veiwpoint, as illustrated by your posts on this subject. you would say that it is not illegal and is therefore OK. I, with almost forty years of research behind me, would be very alarmed to see this drug being taken by anyone who wasn't fully aware of what they were getting into.
But it is legal!!!Does that make it kosher.
In the old, more aware days, only the shaman would ingest the hullucinogenics and he would relay the received wisdom to the less capable of his tribe. Not the Chief, not the Wisewoman but the shaman/witch doctor
of the tribe. Politicians never. Not everyone has the potential to shamanhood
and not everyone should take drugs of any kind and the magic mushroom is as potent as they come. It is strange that the other indigenous mushroom, the fly agaric, is not illegal. As well as giving the user a hit it is also a poison which can be lethal. We all know the happy red and white toadstools of the woodland fairy scene but they can kill. They are legal, is at all right to eat them.
I was in a hurry and didn't log in when I first pulled up this thread. So, I got the advertising bar that appears to the "lurker" population. All three are advertisements for mushrooms: legal, even medicinal, but mushrooms none the less. I had a great laugh over it.
Maybe these ad bars pick up on the words in the thread title and send thematic ads through the system. I've never checked. Or maybe mushrooms are the topic of the day on the org ad channel. I'm still laughing.
Was Caithness so bad you had to go to the excesses and seek a solution in drugs?
Gleeber I am not having a go at you, I am genuinely curious
Well, hids lek iss Golach; Inteligence and the taking of drugs are not connected in any way. I've never used magic mushrooms. My hallucigenic days ended over 30 years ago. I'm not a rebel and so far, spiritual enlightenment has evaded me.
Glebers already answered your next quip regarding needles in arms. I find the thought quite repulsive also.
I've worked hard all my life, paid my taxes (eventually) made good friends, many on here, been good company, a shoulder for tears often enough, and a loving father. I suspect I would get on well enough with your good self, although I find your prejudices and preconcieved ideas about people rather archaic. For that reason I reject your idea that I sought some solice in drugs. I sought the same thing out of drugs as you seek out of alcohol, whatever that may be.
Now, if I was to be presumptious enough in my way of life being the "right way" whilst yours was the "wrong way" I too could ask the patronising question, Is Edinburgh so bad that you need to go to the excesses and seek a solution in alcohol?
I'm not having a go Golach and I dont need an answer. Just pointing out that you have some preconcieved idea that,, whilst your way of life is cool, mine may be a wee bit off the mark.
I make no apology for pointing out how your post comes across to me but I thank you at least for a more respectful if not totally discreet reply to my latest post.
I'm not having a go Golach and I dont need an answer. Just pointing out that you have some preconcieved idea that,, whilst your way of life is cool, mine may be a wee bit off the mark.
I make no apology for pointing out how your post comes across to me but I thank you at least for a more respectful if not totally discreet reply to my latest post.
I will be respectful in my reply and say thank you for putting your point back to me, and just one wee point I have never used alcohol as a crutch, and have never needed to, I like a drink in moderation, and I am not going to argue the issue, I was genuinely curious, but between yourself and the Owld Man 'o Dunnett I am gaining more knowlege about a world I obviously do not know a lot about.
I will be respectful in my reply and say thank you for putting your point back to me, and just one wee point I have never used alcohol as a crutch, and have never needed to, I like a drink in moderation, and I am not going to argue the issue, I was genuinely curious, but between yourself and the Owld Man 'o Dunnett I am gaining more knowlege about a world I obviously do not know a lot about.
Thats cool Golach. I never used drugs as a crutch either and hopefully never will.
I will be respectful in my reply and say thank you for putting your point back to me, and just one wee point I have never used alcohol as a crutch, and have never needed to, I like a drink in moderation, and I am not going to argue the issue, I was genuinely curious, but between yourself and the Owld Man 'o Dunnett I am gaining more knowlege about a world I obviously do not know a lot about.
Good grief, do I detect a note of humility!!!
Never needed any sort of crutch and what the world has thrown at me would break a lot of people. BTW Dunnet is spelled Dunnet.
golach, you've missed the mark yet again. You jump wildly from one assumption to the next, (mushrooms = needle use; alcohol = OK because legal and therefore not a crutch)
Glad you are gaining knowledge here. Here's another nugget; anyone using wine to relax is using a crutch, and to "aid digestion" is universal garbage, second only to "its good for my heart".
Good grief, do I detect a note of humility!!!
Never needed any sort of crutch and what the world has thrown at me would break a lot of people. BTW Dunnet is spelled Dunnet.
and Gollach is spelt Golach.......LOL I did not think you would rise for the bait, and yes you do detect a slight note of humility, ever so slight. But thank you I am gaining in knowlege every day,
respectfully,
Golach
Stop being so nice to one another. You are doing me out of a job as the mediator between G2 and G Edi.
golach, you've missed the mark yet again. You jump wildly from one assumption to the next, (mushrooms = needle use; alcohol = OK because legal and therefore not a crutch)
Glad you are gaining knowledge here. Here's another nugget; anyone using wine to relax is using a crutch, and to "aid digestion" is universal garbage, second only to "its good for my heart".
HT, my remark about using wine Quote "to aid digestion of course" Unquote was intended to be flipant, and no way reflects my use of alcohol. Anyway I rarely drink red wine which has been proven to be good for the heart, but not the soul.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
17-Jul-06, 22:15
"Magic"Mushrooms,the cheapest drug of all,ye don't need a dealer or money or onything.Just a nice wee habitual site that will grow them for FREE.
In my own experiences...."Have ye ever danced wi the devil by the pale moonlight!!!!!":lol: :lol:
"In my own experiences...."Have ye ever danced wi the devil by the pale moonlight!!!!!" :lol:
Frequently and oft. Have you?[evil]
Cedric Farthsbottom III
17-Jul-06, 22:38
Frequently and oft. Have you?[evil]
Lets just say Gleber2,that I started wi' the tango,and now doin' a funky fandango!!!!:lol:
Lets just say Gleber2,that I started wi' the tango,and now doin' a funky fandango!!!!:lol:
Quite a dancer, the Deil. Ain't he.[evil]
Cedric Farthsbottom III
18-Jul-06, 00:04
Quite a dancer, the Deil. Ain't he.[evil]
Ah do know though that one o' his dancin' cronies nicked the very tail of one o' ma Ayrshire mates horses.
Ma mate was called Tam O' Shanter!!!!:lol:
In my own experiences...."Have ye ever danced wi the devil by the pale moonlight!!!!!":lol: :lol:
hhmm, so dancing is involved. Gleeber never mentioned that in his original post and there is no reference to it in the journal article he refered me to.
Golach are we missing something here?
"Magic"Mushrooms,the cheapest drug of all,ye don't need a dealer or money or onything.Just a nice wee habitual site that will grow them for FREE.
In my own experiences...."Have ye ever danced wi the devil by the pale moonlight!!!!!":lol: :lol:
"I always ask that, I just like the sound of it!"
One lad, when I was at school, ran into the playground shouting that there was a giant hamburger chasing him. He looked very very scared. Mushrooms were to blame (not giant ones....just the "magic" ones) We laughed at the time but I still remember the fear in his face.
Brain chemistry is a funny thing. It is purely physical, but seems to be capable of producing a "spiritual" experience.
Scientists theorise about other dimensions. Mankind has a name for the most common "other dimension" that most, if not all, people have experienced at one time or another: Spiritual, completely apart from the physical.
It's in us all.
The questions are.......how should we access it? How should it be used? Of what benefit it is it? Can it help us? Can it harm us?
One thing is for sure: we shouldn't ignore it.
hhmm, so dancing is involved. Gleeber never mentioned that in his original post and there is no reference to it in the journal article he refered me to.
Golach are we missing something here?
We speak figuratively as the dance takes place in other dimensions and is more concerned with the duality of our own natures which has to have the dichotomy between God and Devil to keep in balance and keep us sane.
We speak figuratively as the dance takes place in other dimensions and is more concerned with the duality of our own natures which has to have the dichotomy between God and Devil to keep in balance and keep us sane.
That works for me! Golach you okay with it?
hhmm, so dancing is involved. Gleeber never mentioned that in his original post and there is no reference to it in the journal article he refered me to.
Golach are we missing something here?
Canuck, sorry I am not getting drawn into this one, firstly I am not a good dancer, secondly I do not believe in God, so therefore I cannot believe in the Deil, but maybe I met him incarnate one day around the Waverley Steps [lol]
Chobbersjnr
18-Jul-06, 12:50
Canuck, sorry I am not getting drawn into this one, firstly I am not a good dancer, secondly I do not believe in God, so therefore I cannot believe in the Deil, but maybe I met him incarnate one day around the Waverley Steps
What a perceptive old fellow.[evil] :Razz
What a perceptive old fellow.[evil] :Razz
Who's been giving away family secrets?
I'm not being funny here - I've got an open mind & am pretty much grounded in reality. I'd be seriously interested to know if these two guys would actually advocate that we all try some form of hallucinatory substance sometime in our lifetime (and I don't mean alcohol) just to experience what it's all about? If not, why not?
What can take you to Heaven can take you to Hell.
Right on Fred. I've said similar things many times.
God's flesh is one of its names in Mexico I believe. The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Allegro certainly links the mushroom to the Essenes via the Dead Sea Scrolls and it has often been said that thwe Viking berserkers were charged up on Amanitas Muscarina. I have eaten more mushrooms than most I have met and the spiritual aspect of the experience changed me forever. Perhaps our leaders do need some sort of psychotropic assistance but I think their reaction to the mushroom would be less than desirable. It takes an open mind and a firm reality picture to handle this particular drug.
.
What mushrooms? A bit tame after black microdot I thought :-)
Did you ever read The Purple Pileus (http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0198.pdf) by H. G. Wells?
What mushrooms? A bit tame after black microdot I thought :-)
Did you ever read The Purple Pileus (http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0198.pdf) by H. G. Wells?
Black microdots circa 1972 were quite tame after the orange barrels brought over by Greatful Dead 1972. More LSD than I can honestly remember never prepared me for the mushroom. I gave three entire years to the latter.
No I have not read that particular H.G.Wells.
Scientists theorise about other dimensions. Mankind has a name for the most common "other dimension" that most, if not all, people have experienced at one time or another: Spiritual, completely apart from the physical.
It's in us all.
The questions are.......how should we access it? How should it be used? Of what benefit it is it? Can it help us? Can it harm us?
One thing is for sure: we shouldn't ignore it.
I think it must be pretty obvious to even the most uninterested of us, that religion evolved from this so called other dimension. I see religion as no more than a place to lay my hat. A place to belong. Something outside of normal reality to believe in, and because its outside of normal reality no one can challenge it, especially if another couple of billion people have the same beliefs.
Religion aside, your questions leave out the most obvious one. Where is it?
Is it "out there" in the heavens, or is it "in here" between wur loogs? Whilst Newton and Einstien gave us some fairly concrete laws about our environment, Freud and other mind explorers have never been able to give us even the simplist law of personality. Even though their theories may ring bells with some folk, with others they may mean nothing. Mind you, I suspect many of Freuds enemies are unconsciusly displaying the very atitudes he alludes to in his theories.
One things for sure, and thanks to Connie for finding that link to the story, psilicybin, taken in a controlled dose, and under medical conditions, created feelings of peace and love amongst a group of people with no experience of drug taking.
Somethings going on here. Surely its something wonderful?
It's been said on other threads that the only way forward for the human race is to overcome the hatreds and differences we have between us. We have to see those differences first, and then, how they are formed in our minds.
Why shouldnt the way forward be with mind altering drugs, especially as now, the drug of choice of most people in the west is also one of the most dangerous, and the one most likely to cause conflict?
Wow - this thread has certainly moved on somewhat in my absence. Thanks to Gleeber & Gleber2 for answering my questions very directly. I find this whole subject fascinating - my own experience is limited - hence the questions.
I'm amazed this discussion has not degenerated into the usual personal slanging match - the 3 "G's" have actually entered a meaningful dialogue! We all have so much to learn from each other - and I find that I still have many more questions to ask - but maybe not on a public forum!
It's rare I read & actually catch the drift of Fred's posts - tonight I did. Then he goes & spoils it all with talk of the "black microdot" - Ah well - It's probably a conspiracy anyway - between him & Gleber2 ;)
Saveman - your comments are very interesting - pity DrSzin is on holiday just now - would love to see his reply to this. Not sure I'd agree with Gleeber's idea of a way forward - but my mind is open.
A black micro dot was a particular form of LSD aka acid and first appeared on the market 1971 72. It was made in Britain and was considered to be a strong dose by the people who tried it. In fact, compared to some of the San Francisco made LSD,it was not very strong or pure.
I think it must be pretty obvious to even the most uninterested of us, that religion evolved from this so called other dimension. I see religion as no more than a place to lay my hat. A place to belong. Something outside of normal reality to believe in, and because its outside of normal reality no one can challenge it, especially if another couple of billion people have the same beliefs.
Religion aside, your questions leave out the most obvious one. Where is it?
Is it "out there" in the heavens, or is it "in here" between wur loogs? Whilst Newton and Einstien gave us some fairly concrete laws about our environment, Freud and other mind explorers have never been able to give us even the simplist law of personality. Even though their theories may ring bells with some folk, with others they may mean nothing. Mind you, I suspect many of Freuds enemies are unconsciusly displaying the very atitudes he alludes to in his theories.
One things for sure, and thanks to Connie for finding that link to the story, psilicybin, taken in a controlled dose, and under medical conditions, created feelings of peace and love amongst a group of people with no experience of drug taking.
Somethings going on here. Surely its something wonderful?
It's been said on other threads that the only way forward for the human race is to overcome the hatreds and differences we have between us. We have to see those differences first, and then, how they are formed in our minds.
Why shouldnt the way forward be with mind altering drugs, especially as now, the drug of choice of most people in the west is also one of the most dangerous, and the one most likely to cause conflict?
I agree with you that religion evolved from another dimension. I even agree that the other dimension exists within each of us. (I would add that it is also beyond us as well. This ties in with Gleber2's short statement on dualism.) I also agree that drugs bring on a sense of peace, even a feeling of love. Although I don't have much practise with such drug induced sensations, I do have the experience of child birth. There are some pretty powerful chemical reactions going on there. No, I didn't have any pain inhibitors. So, I felt the full effect of those motherhood chemicals once the children were born. Now, I have no experience of the psychedelic variety so I cannot compare the two feelings. They are both chemical activities happening within the body. Emotion is a chemical activity. That is not another dimension. That is the biochemical system that is the human body. An introduced drug is not another dimension. It is this dimension, the dimension of the body. The same kind of thing happens as when a person eats an apple. The sugars break down and enter the blood stream just as the chemicals of the mushrooms break down and enter the blood stream. All still the dimension of the body.
Religion comes from another dimension, a dimension that can affect the body but is not of the biochemistry of the body. So, drug induced feelings might be great feelings, but that does not make them a religious experience. It is okay to feel wonderful, but what side affects do the chemicals have? Legally prescribed drugs have been tested and are shown to be somewhat okay if used under controlled situations. (I know Gleber2, pot has no side effects, except in me who is allergic to it, at least the smoke.)
Drugs only alter a feeling for a few moments (okay, maybe hours.) They don't alter reality. They only bring a false understanding of reality. They aren't going to go very far to bringing about world peace. Maybe it will stop the users from taking shots at one another for a brief period of time. But the person will revert to the old ways once a normal state returns.
I think that we need to be working toward making the playing field level for people so that they don't live in poverty and thus possibly turn to greed and strive for power which leads to violence. We need to be sensative to our own use of the worlds resources and our own exploitation of materialism. I think that is a better route to follow than the magic mushroom method.
IReligion aside, your questions leave out the most obvious one. Where is it?
Is it "out there" in the heavens, or is it "in here" between wur loogs?
When the barriers are down and the veil is torn, is there any real difference???
When the barriers are down and the veil is torn, is there any real difference???
The difference is that even with the barriers down a heaven out there is still out there. For a heaven to be of any value to humans it needs to be both out there and in our lungs.
It is okay to feel wonderful, but what side affects do the chemicals have? Legally prescribed drugs have been tested and are shown to be somewhat okay if used under controlled situations. (I know Gleber2, pot has no side effects, except in me who is allergic to it, at least the smoke.)
Drugs only alter a feeling for a few moments (okay, maybe hours.) They don't alter reality. They only bring a false understanding of reality. They aren't going to go very far to bringing about world peace. Maybe it will stop the users from taking shots at one another for a brief period of time. But the person will revert to the old ways once a normal state returns.
.
It is the understanding of reality which gets altered but this is not true for all those who take mindexpanding drugs. The reality which you take as the norm is, in my philosophy at least, just another illusion. It is what you personally percieve as reality which keeps our thoughts apart.The use of psychotropic drugs changed my attitudes to everything and not at all for a few moments but for the subsequent lifetime.
I agree with you, however, that the use of mind expanding drugs is a ridiculous solution for the problems that we, as a race, face at this point in time. I can't help but think that Gleeber had his tongue well and truly in his cheek when he made the suggestion. It's not that long ago in this same forum that he stated that the Spiritual world did not exist because he hadn't experienced it. Maybe 'tis he who should munch some mushies.;)
The difference is that even with the barriers down a heaven out there is still out there. For a heaven to be of any value to humans it needs to be both out there and in our lungs.
Loogs, not lungs. When the barriers are down your reality is as you make it. There is no heaven and there is no hell. There is only the reality/illusion that you percieve and you create that with your own thoughts which come from your personal conditioning. The drugs in question makes one question the validity of that conditioning.
It is the understanding of reality which gets altered but this is not true for all those who take mindexpanding drugs. The reality which you take as the norm is, in my philosophy at least, just another illusion. It is what you personally percieve as reality which keeps our thoughts apart.The use of psychotropic drugs changed my attitudes to everything and not at all for a few moments but for the subsequent lifetime.
I agree with you, however, that the use of mind expanding drugs is a ridiculous solution for the problems that we, as a race, face at this point in time. I can't help but think that Gleeber had his tongue well and truly in his cheek when he made the suggestion. It's not that long ago in this same forum that he stated that the Spiritual world did not exist because he hadn't experienced it. Maybe 'tis he who should munch some mushies.;)
"Psychotropic" - that is the word I was looking for!
I agree that from our experiences we have built up our own reality. But the phyical basis for maintaining that reality in our bodies is a chemical formulation. Psychotropic drugs, whether prescribed or otherwise aquired, breach the chemical barriers which our experiences have created. Beyond those barriers we all carry the truth of healthy human relationship. In a clinical use of drugs there is meant to be a permanent breaking down of the barriers. You are one of the fortunate ones who achieved it on your own. But I wouldn't recommend anyone else going down that pathway. It is far, far, far too dangerous.
I didn't hear in gleeber's previous post a conclusion that just because he hadn't had a spiritual experience that he didn't believe in the spirit world. I've never had a spiritual experience of the kind he was describing, yet I live my life knowing that such a world exists.
Loogs, not lungs. When the barriers are down your reality is as you make it. There is no heaven and there is no hell. There is only the reality/illusion that you percieve and you create that with your own thoughts which come from your personal conditioning. The drugs in question makes one question the validity of that conditioning.
We have to take a definition break!!!
What does "loogs" mean? I thought he had just made a typing error!
We have to take a definition break!!!
What does "loogs" mean? I thought he had just made a typing error!
Yer loogs are yer ears. Between yer loogs lies yer brain.
" It is far, far, far too dangerous.
I didn't hear in gleeber's previous post a conclusion that just because he hadn't had a spiritual experience that he didn't believe in the spirit world. I've never had a spiritual experience of the kind he was describing, yet I live my life knowing that such a world exists.
With this statement I agree entirely.
I was referring to a previous thread some time ago not Gleebers statements in this thread.
Yer loogs are yer ears. Between yer loogs lies yer brain.
Okay, that does make a difference. I was reading lungs = life force.
I was also misunderstanding you over the barrier thing. When you said veil, I was reading the "veil between heaven and earth", in other words that which separates the realms. I think what you are saying is that those places exist only in our imaginations, that because of our experiences we create a perception of a dualism. But that as the result of the chemical enlightenment those self created realms merge. Am I understanding this correctly?
(Moira, we shall get there!)
I often wonder if the X chromosone ever really understands the duality. Perhaps it requires the X and Y to find the needed balance to truly understand this game.
I often wonder if the X chromosone ever really understands the duality. Perhaps it requires the X and Y to find the needed balance to truly understand this game.
You may be absolutely right on that.
Might I add that X and Y created it and thus are the ones to understand and resolve it.
Might I add that X and Y created it and thus are the ones to understand and resolve it.
The yin and yang truly exists in the mind that contains the two and therefore, to me, logic would dictate that only a male Shaman would use the drugs to understand the contents of his own mind and reality and aspire to that balance which can be attained. which creates the gateway to greater understanding of the mysteries of the game that is life.
The yin and yang truly exists in the mind that contains the two and therefore, to me, logic would dictate that only a male Shaman would use the drugs to understand the contents of his own mind and reality and aspire to that balance which can be attained. which creates the gateway to greater understanding of the mysteries of the game that is life.
With that logic it would also be necessary to accept a second kind of life reality for the XX personality. That is an equally authentic life with equally authentic experiences. Perhaps on that plane there is no dualism, just a continuum. Maybe XXs don't create the barriers, the veils, in the first place.
Back to the medical model, the psychotrophic drugs seem to work the same on XYs as on XX, so I am not sure that one can conclude that the only source of enlightenment is through the male Shaman using the drug of the region.
With that logic it would also be necessary to accept a second kind of life reality for the XX personality. That is an equally authentic life with equally authentic experiences. Perhaps on that plane there is no dualism, just a continuum. Maybe XXs don't create the barriers, the veils, in the first place.
Back to the medical model, the psychotrophic drugs seem to work the same on XYs as on XX, so I am not sure that one can conclude that the only source of enlightenment is through the male Shaman using the drug of the region.
Your first statement I agree with only it is notXX but X0. The X creates a barrier to stop it merging with the void. In the XY the void has been banished by the existance of Y and it can be examined in safety.
The same fuel will power a lawn mower and a jet plane.Same effect, different end result. I speak from an XY point of view when the two are in balance.
Your belief will not change the truth.
I havnt got a clue what Glebers talking about so there's no point in me pretending to be smart by making any comment on his dialogue with canuck. Yes, I accept, because I havnt experienced it (whatever it is) doesnt mean its not real for someone else. It would be helpful though if Gleber wid explain in simple terms what it is he is talking about.
I know a little about psychological duality within the scientific models of research. Each person has an ego and a superego. These are the two imposters fighting for dominance within each individual personality. Most folk will be aware of the internal discussion going on in their heads when they are faced with making a decision about something, which although they may want to do it, the sensible thing would to be not to do it. The question is, who is allowing who to do what? This split between the "topdog" and the "underdog" begins at a very early age.
There's a couple of points I would like to pick up on. First, my intention for this thread was not purely tongue in cheek. There's nothing new in the idea that drugs, can, and will, make people feel better. That being the case drugs can be a life changing experience, whether it's relief from depression with valium, or mystical experiences with psilicybin, to enable people to become more self aware.
In the same magazine where I read about the mushroom experience there was a more lengthy article on new forms of drugs to combat drunkeness. Pop a pill when your finished having a good time on a belly full of alcohol and walk home sober. No hangover, nothing. Well, maybe 30 quid lighter in the pocket. It's coming folks.
I dont believe there's a spiritual dimension "out there", but I believe there's a spiritual dimension between my loogs. Some people pick up on that to mean God, and to be honest when someone has a spiritual or mystical experience, most people would see that as coming from out there. I believe it comes from inside. Nowadays, through self help books, money grabbing gurus, (television evangelists) New age stuff, etc, more people are coming into contact with things, reputably from that other dimension.
My own take on spiritual awakenings is that people come into contact with parts of their own personalities, which, up until the time of the experience, were repressed or unconscious mental energies.
Simple as abc. or should that be xx, xo, yy.:D
I wouldnt dare suggest Glebers trips were anything more than flights of fancy, because I know how seriously he takes the experience. Mind you, I meet the same dogmatic certainty about reality, in Church of Scotland ministers and Freud quoting builders. ;)
I have no dogmatic certainty about anything. That which I know to be true and that which I don't. The middle not proven section is hugantic and that's where opinion lurks. No words written by other humans will convince me of anything. They tell me London exists, I have seen it, and, although that seeing was in the past, I am prepared to believe it still exists. I have never seen Dheli. It might exist or it might not. This almost digital thinking I apply to almost everything to the extent where I am prepared to believe that nothing exists or perhaps that everything does. How can I be dogmatically certain??
Cedric Farthsbottom III
19-Jul-06, 21:43
Gleber2,how could ye say such intellect and then put a 'p' in how!!!I was getting carried away with ye then,until the 'p',which I'm not takin' by the way!!!!:lol: :lol:
Gleber2,how could ye say such intellect and then put a 'p' in how!!!I was getting carried away with ye then,until the 'p',which I'm not takin' by the way!!!!:lol:
I hope my edit restored your faith.:lol:
Cedric Farthsbottom III
19-Jul-06, 22:30
I hope my edit restored your faith.:lol:
Definitely restored the faith,although it wasn't gone in the first place!!!:lol:
By the way its Delhi!!!!
Definitely restored the faith,although it wasn't gone in the first place!!!:lol:
By the way its Delhi!!!!
I'll put a spell on you!!!!
Cedric Farthsbottom III
19-Jul-06, 22:34
I'll put a spell on you!!!!
:lol: :lol: It worked!!!!
pultneytooner
19-Jul-06, 22:36
Religion comes from another dimension, a dimension that can affect the body but is not of the biochemistry of the body. So, drug induced feelings might be great feelings, but that does not make them a religious experience.
Drugs only alter a feeling for a few moments (okay, maybe hours.) They don't alter reality. They only bring a false understanding of reality. They aren't going to go very far to bringing about world peace. Maybe it will stop the users from taking shots at one another for a brief period of time. But the person will revert to the old ways once a normal state returns.
I think that we need to be working toward making the playing field level for people so that they don't live in poverty and thus possibly turn to greed and strive for power which leads to violence. We need to be sensative to our own use of the worlds resources and our own exploitation of materialism. I think that is a better route to follow than the magic mushroom method.
A drug induced religious experience may be a real phenomena or it may not, the same as your religious feelings may be real to you but equaly false to someone else. Everyones reality including yours is different or at least their perceptions of it are so someone using entheogens may be infact entering another reality, who's to say any different.
Greed, striving for power and creating violence, I thought that was the preserve of the rich.
entheogens .
Educate me . What are they?
Cedric Farthsbottom III
19-Jul-06, 23:00
Entheogens are what the shamen use.Must be quite strong cos it made them "Move any Mountain".:lol: :lol:
pultneytooner
19-Jul-06, 23:08
Educate me . What are they? Psychoactive plants, i.e, amanitas, cannabis, peyote, mushrooms, Salvia divinorum used as a catalyst to attain a higher state of enlightenment and spirituality.
Psychoactive plants, i.e, amanitas, cannabis, peyote, mushrooms used as a catalyst to attain a higher state of enlightenment spritualy.
Cheers both of you. Add Salvia divinorum to that list. Stronger than all the named others put together.
pultneytooner
19-Jul-06, 23:12
Cheers both of you. Add Salvia divinorum to that list. Stronger than all the named others put together.
Consider it done.;)
Greed, striving for power and creating violence, I thought that was the preserve of the rich.
Thanks for spotting that.
Better perhaps to have written something like ... possibly turning to emulate the values of the wealthy, greed...
A black micro dot was a particular form of LSD aka acid and first appeared on the market 1971 72. It was made in Britain and was considered to be a strong dose by the people who tried it. In fact, compared to some of the San Francisco made LSD,it was not very strong or pure.
Never rated the American stuff myself, too pure for my liking, acid without strychnine is like liver without onions.
Never rated the American stuff myself, too pure for my liking, acid without strychnine is like liver without onions.
Met your type before.
Your first statement I agree with only it is notXX but X0. The X creates a barrier to stop it merging with the void. In the XY the void has been banished by the existance of Y and it can be examined in safety.
The same fuel will power a lawn mower and a jet plane.Same effect, different end result. I speak from an XY point of view when the two are in balance.
Your belief will not change the truth.
I studied genetics/chromosomes many years ago and I needed to check to see if there was new nomenclature that I wasn't aware of. The same old stuff I learned is still pretty much current. So, what I think that you are suggesting is that females lack the magic Y gene. That might be true but an XO female suffers from Turner's syndrome. The chromosome representation for a normal female is XX. Like X or not, we have lots of it. It may keep us from merging with the void (whatever that means), but why would we worry if Y has already banished the void and made it as if no void exists?
I don't think that I suggested that my belief would ever change the truth. But wow, wouldn't it be great if they were the same thing!
Maybe this is similar to the article Gleeber read!!!
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/46241.html
In our discussion we haven't really identified what was being refered to as a "religious experience." The author of the magic mushroom article described what the people who participated in the study meant when they talked about having a spiritual experience.
Quoting from the article:
Psilocybin's effects lasted for up to six hours, Griffiths said. Twenty-two of the 36 volunteers reported having a "complete" mystical experience, compared to four of those getting methylphenidate.
That experience included such things as a sense of pure awareness and a merging with ultimate reality, a transcendence of time and space, a feeling of sacredness or awe and a deeply felt positive mood like joy, peace and love. People say "they can't possibly put it into words," Griffiths said.
My nomenclature does not come from text books and I apologise if I have confused the issue. The point that I was trying to make is that the male and female heads are completely different and this determines the way we see and interprate reality.
Although I am sure " science" and its terminology will shoot me down in flames, it is my belief that the female head is female is female is female while the male head with the X and Y contains male and female equally and is consequently completely different from the X only consciousness.
In the past when I have aired these hypothetical ideas, I have been accused of being sexist and claiming a superior position for the male compared to the female. Not true, I am merely stating the difference.
My nomenclature does not come from text books and I apologise if I have confused the issue. The point that I was trying to make is that the male and female heads are completely different and this determines the way we see and interprate reality.
Although I am sure " science" and its terminology will shoot me down in flames, it is my belief that the female head is female is female is female while the male head with the X and Y contains male and female equally and is consequently completely different from the X only consciousness.
In the past when I have aired these hypothetical ideas, I have been accused of being sexist and claiming a superior position for the male compared to the female. Not true, I am merely stating the difference.
Gleber2, are you saying that a man can think like a woman if he wants to, but a woman can't think like a man?
I think that I will add a new dimension to this thread. Has anyone else heard about the psychodelic properties of dried banana skin? In my misspent yoof I once read this somewhere. Apparently, once the banana is dry you crumble it up and smoke it.
I once knew a hop-head who would smoke anything - even horse manure! He eventually died of drug overdose - not even his own drugs!
Gleber2, are you saying that a man can think like a woman if he wants to, but a woman can't think like a man?
In a nutshell, yes. This does not make him better or worse, only different. It is the accepting of that difference which make the combination of man and woman work in a reality where, at this point in time, it is not working. It is rather obvious in this present reality that the ladies are in the ascendant and control through the male rather than with him.
So much of what I believe about the game is completely hypothetical and I stopped discussing the issue because I got fed-up being called sexist, chauvinist and misogynistic. This thread was about mushrooms and it was during my years of investigating my own mind using the mushroom that these conclusions began to come to me.
Woman, in our present reality, needs man but doesn't really seem to want him. Man seems to want woman but doesn't really need her. If we are to go through to the next level of the game as a male/female entity then we need to work together in a way which we don't have right now. X alone can't make it but X plus Y can. Man can go through on his own in other words.
Over the last forty or so years, woman have taken over and man is getting more and more emasculated. This works fine in our present mess of a reality but will not work when the crunch comes and we have to fight for the right to go through to the next stage of human existance. Perhaps Armageddon and total destruction is a more certain future.
As my ideas on this subject come from my own mind and not from the internet or books, I can't quote references and supply food for arguement and I will not respond to three thousand ladies telling me that I'm wrong.
In a nutshell, yes. This does not make him better or worse, only different. It is the accepting of that difference which make the combination of man and woman work in a reality where, at this point in time, it is not working. It is rather obvious in this present reality that the ladies are in the ascendant and control through the male rather than with him.
So much of what I believe about the game is completely hypothetical and I stopped discussing the issue because I got fed-up being called sexist, chauvinist and misogynistic. This thread was about mushrooms and it was during my years of investigating my own mind using the mushroom that these conclusions began to come to me.
Woman, in our present reality, needs man but doesn't really seem to want him. Man seems to want woman but doesn't really need her. If we are to go through to the next level of the game as a male/female entity then we need to work together in a way which we don't have right now. X alone can't make it but X plus Y can. Man can go through on his own in other words.
Over the last forty or so years, woman have taken over and man is getting more and more emasculated. This works fine in our present mess of a reality but will not work when the crunch comes and we have to fight for the right to go through to the next stage of human existance. Perhaps Armageddon and total destruction is a more certain future.
As my ideas on this subject come from my own mind and not from the internet or books, I can't quote references and supply food for arguement and I will not respond to three thousand ladies telling me that I'm wrong.
That brought tears to my eyes Gleber2 [no kidding} and made me laugh at the same time.....what a mess eh! :~(
In a nutshell, yes. This does not make him better or worse, only different. It is the accepting of that difference which make the combination of man and woman work in a reality where, at this point in time, it is not working. It is rather obvious in this present reality that the ladies are in the ascendant and control through the male rather than with him.
So much of what I believe about the game is completely hypothetical and I stopped discussing the issue because I got fed-up being called sexist, chauvinist and misogynistic. This thread was about mushrooms and it was during my years of investigating my own mind using the mushroom that these conclusions began to come to me.
Woman, in our present reality, needs man but doesn't really seem to want him. Man seems to want woman but doesn't really need her. If we are to go through to the next level of the game as a male/female entity then we need to work together in a way which we don't have right now. X alone can't make it but X plus Y can. Man can go through on his own in other words.
Over the last forty or so years, woman have taken over and man is getting more and more emasculated. This works fine in our present mess of a reality but will not work when the crunch comes and we have to fight for the right to go through to the next stage of human existance. Perhaps Armageddon and total destruction is a more certain future.
As my ideas on this subject come from my own mind and not from the internet or books, I can't quote references and supply food for arguement and I will not respond to three thousand ladies telling me that I'm wrong.
At the risk of also incuring the ire of three thousand women, there are parts where I totally agree with you. As long as we can keep to the premise that you stated to sporran that this does not make for better or worse, only different then I will agree that males and females think differently. As to your theory that woman thinks that she doesn't need man, I sure hope not. I have to take issue with that paragraph.
I am not quite sure that males have both male and female components as you descibe it. In your model what makes females think the way they do is most likely due to the double dose of X. I suspect that we are mixing psychology and physiology here in ways that are bringing more confusion than clarity to the discussion.
Taking this to a realm where I have done some study, the biblical story records the unique presence of female leaders during times of transition within the faith community. In fact their presence is recognized as one of the discernable traits of a community in change. The world we live in is in the throws of a change very much like the period of movement from the Middle Ages to the Renaisance. We are leaving that age now to move to something new. So, it is quite natural to assume that women would be more visable and assuming leadership roles (especially in the religious community) in ways our society has not seen before.
Carlo Gambino
20-Jul-06, 15:00
I took some mushies almost 20 years ago but I remember it as if it was yesterday, awesome totally hillarious, I didnt stop laughing for 6 hours, the only thing was my sides really were sore the next day, never tried them again though as some of my friends had bad trips through taking too much.
. As to your theory that woman thinks that she doesn't need man, I sure hope not. I have to take issue with that paragraph.
I am not quite sure that males have both male and female components as you descibe it.
Taking this to a realm where I have done some study, the biblical story records the unique presence of female leaders during times of transition within the faith community. In fact their presence is recognized as one of the discernable traits of a community in change. The world we live in is in the throws of a change very much like the period of movement from the Middle Ages to the Renaisance. We are leaving that age now to move to something new. So, it is quite natural to assume that women would be more visable and assuming leadership roles (especially in the religious community) in ways our society has not seen before.
One only has to observe the present day relationships that exist within our society where the dynamics of the male female relationship seem to have developed into a fight for supremecy and control and the number of divorced and single parents would indicate that the changes in the status quo are not helping.
Of course you can't be sure that man has the internal balance of the X and Y because you are a woman and are not equipped to think like a man.
In most herd animals, like the horse, the Matriarch reigns supreme as she does in the wolf packs. The male however, is there to protect and fight and is a rule unto himself. The dominant male is the best father to continue the strengthening of the gene pool and his genetic supremacy over other males is essential. Now every woman seems to seek a mate that is slightly weaker than she is and this pet man syndrome is weakening the gene pool to an unprecedented degree. Now we have a generation of males where the very traits that made him essential to the ongoing improvement in the herd are being bred out to the degree where there is in fact very little difference between young males and young females.
Women have always been in control. The first imprint on our brains is the contents of our mother's head and that sets the future for the individual male. Before the movement for women to take a more prominent front driving seat, it was said that behind every important man there is a more important woman pulling his strings. Now the ladies are in the driving seat and men have become drones in a queen controled hive and no longer have a role in the new order. If we fight we are put in jail but that used to be our primary function. The new order that would be an automatic move onwards from our present reality is one that I am glad to be too old to see.
We are in the process of change but I fear it will not be the sort of change you are anticipating and it is the traits peculiar only to the male that will see us through it, if indeed we get through it. The evidence of the global today would indicate that we are running out of chances. Do we go back to Genesis or do we move on to where we have never been before? If we can bridge the gap between man and woman and put each in its appropriate place then we might have a chance of moving on. If we continue in the direction we are travelling right now we have not got much time left.
pultneytooner
20-Jul-06, 17:50
At the risk of also incuring the ire of three thousand women, there are parts where I totally agree with you. As long as we can keep to the premise that you stated to sporran that this does not make for better or worse, only different then I will agree that males and females think differently.
What about the two-Spirit people supposedly having a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit living in the same body. Can a female think as a man or a male think as a woman?
Also, what has hunter's syndrome got to do with spirituality?
Just wondering.:D
In most herd animals, like the horse, the Matriarch reigns supreme as she does in the wolf packs. The male however, is there to protect and fight and is a rule unto himself. The dominant male is the best father to continue the strengthening of the gene pool and his genetic supremacy over other males is essential. Now every woman seems to seek a mate that is slightly weaker than she is and this pet man syndrome is weakening the gene pool to an unprecedented degree. Now we have a generation of males where the very traits that made him essential to the ongoing improvement in the herd are being bred out to the degree where there is in fact very little difference between young males and young females.
The thought of my husband as a "pet man" is quite laughable! :lol: I certainly didn't choose a mate slightly weaker than myself. But I do see where you're coming from, Gleber2.
The thought of my husband as a "pet man" is quite laughable! :lol: I certainly didn't choose a mate slightly weaker than myself. But I do see where you're coming from, Gleber2.
Really??????!!!!!!! I wonder.LOL[evil]
I think that I will add a new dimension to this thread. Has anyone else heard about the psychodelic properties of dried banana skin? In my misspent yoof I once read this somewhere. Apparently, once the banana is dry you crumble it up and smoke it.
And the called it Mellow Yelloooow.
Myth.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
20-Jul-06, 21:03
All different folk get a different buzz fae different things.Some folk smoke banana skins and feel ill.Some folk go on the biggest rollercoaster in the world and get the biggest adrenalin buzz.
Me,myself.Every morning or afternoon I have my first fag,the heid buzz is a right kick.
Enlightenment is to the beholder and only the beholder can truly tell ye the true meaning!!!.....Cedric the Intellectual 2006!!!!:lol: :lol:
pultneytooner
20-Jul-06, 21:19
All different folk get a different buzz fae different things.Some folk smoke banana skins and feel ill.Some folk go on the biggest rollercoaster in the world and get the biggest adrenalin buzz.
Me,myself.Every morning or afternoon I have my first fag,the heid buzz is a right kick.
Enlightenment is to the beholder and only the beholder can truly tell ye the true meaning!!!.....Cedric the Intellectual 2006!!!!:lol:
Wise words grasshopper.;)
Cedric Farthsbottom III
20-Jul-06, 21:23
Wise words grasshopper.;)
Thank ye master!!!!!:lol:
Thank ye master!!!!!:lol:
Thank the celestial elephant.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
20-Jul-06, 21:39
Thank the celestial elephant.
Aye and him/her too.Thank the Gleber2 for if his intellect did not defy the org. then I would pack up ma bags now.Pultneytooner,my master,the drinks are on me the next time we meet!!!!!:lol: :lol: ...maybe even a song!!!!
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