View Full Version : Crazy or not?
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=5665
Looking at the past as I sat having a solitary Hogmany, it seems to me that the human slide into destructive decadence has accelerated beyond belief. This observation draws me to the conclusion that the whole human race could be sectioned as being completely insane. We destroy the future as we bicker and argue over our beliefs and we fight to ensure that we continue to live the life of Riley at the expense of our children and our grandchildren. Can we learn from the past or do we ignore the demands of the future so that we can support a present of hedonistic plenty?.
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=20247
Just over a year ago I posted my first thread on this Forum where I expostulated that the Human Race is certifiably insane. One year down the line and I am more certain than ever that we are crazy.
Whether it is on this Forum or the worldwide stage we are busy arguing and fighting, bickering on a ridiculously low level and seem to be completely unable to co-exist with those we see as different whether in colour, religion, nationality or even sex. Is all hope gone, or is there a vestige of sanity left in this barren race which seems hellbent on self-destruction?
Politically, I don't think that anyone can say that Western involvement in Asia has benefitted the people of Afghanistan or Iraq and our lack of true involvement is doing little to improve the lot of the Palestinians or the Ethiopians. We get too fat when the other half starve to death.
Our eco-system is going crazy and we cannot even agree on the cause(s) and continue to pollute the environment to an unprecedented degree. What we do achieve is too little, too late and meanwhile the ice melts and the Gulf sream falters.
At a time when all humanity should be pulling together to avert the aproaching catastrophes we are splitting into smaller and smaller groups fighting each other. Even on this message board we cannot exchange ideas without attack and defence and bruised egos. As above, so below and all change must first come from the individual. How sad that we can hide the truth from ourselves when we have to shoulder blame, shame and guilt.
Yes, in my opinion, the human race is collectively insane.
The first link was to my first thread on this forum followed by the First paragraph.
The second link was to a thread a year on with its first paragraph.
Three plus years on and I feel that my statements on the sanity of the human race are even more true. Is there no end to our collective madness..
John Little
08-Sep-10, 21:45
You are coming over as a half-empty person.
Try inverting the situation and restating it as a half-full scenario.
It may look slightly more positive if you do.
You are coming over as a half-empty person.
Try inverting the situation and restating it as a half-full scenario.
It may look slightly more positive if you do.
The observer sees what he sees. Is not a pessimist really an optimist who knows something? I reiterate, if the human race could be looked at as one person, he/she would be committed.
In the original threads which became quite long, a surprising number of Orgers must be half empty also by their posts.
John Little
08-Sep-10, 22:02
Happily, the human race is not to be regarded as one person, but as an infinite diversity.
As to the half empty Orgers, I think you will find that if someone makes a half empty case then it strikes a chord in many who will echo what they say.
Similarly if you make a half-full case then the same people will add their positives to what you say.
People are fickle. And moods change.
You live in a beautiful place. Life is good. Look at what you have. It is not all dark - nor even all light. Like all things it is a matter of balance.
I would echo the ancient Persian advice to you - 'Eat, drink and lie with women, for surely these are what is best in life' but it's probably not PC
Wow that brought back some memories........a few names there that I had forgotten.....Landmarker etc. etc. ;)
Well G2 I'd reiterate my reply to your first post over four years ago.......humankind needs guidance. We're like children playing with things we can neither control or understand.....
Happily, the human race is not to be regarded as one person, but as an infinite diversity.
As to the half empty Orgers, I think you will find that if someone makes a half empty case then it strikes a chord in many who will echo what they say.
Similarly if you make a half-full case then the same people will add their positives to what you say.
People are fickle. And moods change.
You live in a beautiful place. Life is good. Look at what you have. It is not all dark - nor even all light. Like all things it is a matter of balance.
I would echo the ancient Persian advice to you - 'Eat, drink and lie with women, for surely these are what is best in life' but it's probably not PC
You're quoting Iranian advice at me? They're making Atomic bombs you know.:)
The balance is loose and swinging. A tree may look beautiful but its heart may be rottem. It is the rottenness which brings it down.
Fer gawds sake, go an have a smoke :eek:
Wow that brought back some memories........a few names there that I had forgotten.....Landmarker etc. etc. ;)
Well G2 I'd reiterate my reply to your first post over four years ago.......humankind needs guidance. We're like children playing with things we can neither control or understand.....
Maybe the Divine Principal needs the attention of
PC Maintenance & Repairs
01955 621384
"No one to turn to, no-one to guide us, nobody cares." Where's the guidance then?
Fer gawds sake, go an have a smoke :eek:
No, it's illegal you know.
Maybe the Divine Principal needs the attention of
PC Maintenance & Repairs
01955 621384
"No one to turn to, no-one to guide us, nobody cares." Where's the guidance then?
Thanks for the advertising ;)
People look to different places for guidance. For some it's science that can provide all the answers and guidance for the future. For some it's religion. Personally I think that there is someone to turn to, there is someone to guide us, and there is someone who cares....
....but then you already knew I was going to say that. :)
People look to different places for guidance. For some it's science that can provide all the answers and guidance for the future. For some it's religion. Personally I think that there is someone to turn to, there is someone to guide us, and there is someone who cares....
....but then you already knew I was going to say that. :)
There are degrees of insanity and everyone has a little bit, lurking, waiting to pounce.
It must be fantastic to know that there's a loving God behind all this turmoil on our little lump of rock and that eventually by believing that, you will live forever in his kingdom. I find the notion insane but its part of the normal insanity inherant in the human race. Its as healthy as its crazy. :lol:
I agree with John Little. The Amageddon gene is a state of mind. It doesnt have to happen.
It's important to stay positive and focus on the other parts that make up the mechanics of human beings but never forgetting our ability to be destructive. Mentally, I think we're further down that track now than we were even yesterday.
There will be setbacks, but i think we are fundamentally good and our aim is to be as good as we can be. Its not in our interest to destroy ourselves. The world cant go on the way it is but we are beginning to address those important issues. Its never easy to adapt to daily change or to lose concerns for the future but on the whole I am optimistic about the human race.
Thanks for the advertising ;)
People look to different places for guidance. For some it's science that can provide all the answers and guidance for the future. For some it's religion. Personally I think that there is someone to turn to, there is someone to guide us, and there is someone who cares....
....but then you already knew I was going to say that. :)
How I wish I could agree with you.
It's important to stay positive and focus on the other parts that make up the mechanics of human beings but never forgetting our ability to be destructive. Mentally, I think we're further down that track now than we were even yesterday.
.
How much further down that track do we have to be before we can be considered, as a race,to be crazy?
Walter Ego
09-Sep-10, 07:16
As long as humans have free will there will be conflict, competition and groups who come out on the 'losing' side in the struggle for existance.
We're no different to any other animal in as much that we will further the cause of outr own family/pack/tribal group - even if this proves detrimental to the fuana and flora around us.
People harken back to a 'halcyon' period of time - this tends to vary depending on the attitude and beliefs of the person doing the harkening (?). Could be the '50s, the C19th or any time back to the Neolithic. None of which were ever as good as what people imagine.
Insane? no.
For example some of the South American empires believed that it wasn't insane to rip the hearts out of living victims to appease their Gods, C16th century Scotland burned women for 'witchcraft', all acros the globe there has been a constant battle for expansionism by one group or another at the expense of fellow humans.
Not insanity, insanity could be acting in a manner that is unacceptable to the society at that time, it's human nature....greedy, narrow minded, easily duped and self serving.
Or it could be that, actually, the world is a fantastic place to live and that maybe someone goes on a cyclical 'downer' brought about by long term substance abuse.......?;):Razz
onecalledk
09-Sep-10, 08:15
I will probably be shot down in flames for this post but here goes...... you seem to be focussing on the negative and energy goes where energy is focused. If you "buy in" to the fear that is around you then you will be pulled down by it.
There is a lot of chaos in the world just now, I view all the chaos as the stuff that needs to be changed. The human race DOES need to change what it does but the responsiblity to change lies with EVERYONE on the planet not just the chosen few. So sitting for example blaming the PM for the state of the country is just denying the responsibility the individual has to be the best they can etc.
We as a race are changing, more and more of the "negative" stuff is being brought to the surface, if we look at it and decide we can no longer tolerate it then surely that is a positive step? Only by being aware of some of the horrors in the world can we take steps to deal with them?
Everyone alive has a contribution to make to the world, EVERYONE, but until everyone alive believes this then it will be a slow change. We need to look past race, colour, religion etc. A lot of people in the world do and this is the tide that is turning. However this brings out a lot of fear in people who dont feel that safe in general, that brings out the "lunatics", who would rather live in their fearful state as its something they know, whether they like it or not is irrelevant. Human beings tend to stick to things they know and this brings a sort of comfort to them.
Chaos is needed to break down what was there previously so that something new can spring forth. Chaos is a natural part of the cycle of life.
Chaos is loose in the world just now. I would urge you to resist looking at the "half empty" glass and focus on the "half full".
Reality is what you make it. Focus on the negative then you will only see negative. Look at the positive and its a whole different ball game.
K
I can see where gleeber2 is coming from interestingly they thought that the 20th century would be the most peaceful on record and that the summer of 1914 was lovely by some accounts. There seems no explanation why it turned out to be the bloodiest in history by far...hopefully the year 2014 wont be as...misleading.
I have to say that I have reached my own particular view of the reality we live in by observing all aspects not just the bad. I also have a fair knowledge of history and the path that took us here. The balance is changing and chaos is winning and the future IMHO is looking grim.
I may or may not be a half empty person but in the light of the fate of the Planet and race this is of no consequence.
I will probably be shot down in flames for this post but here goes...... you seem to be focussing on the negative and energy goes where energy is focused. If you "buy in" to the fear that is around you then you will be pulled down by it.
There is a lot of chaos in the world just now, I view all the chaos as the stuff that needs to be changed. The human race DOES need to change what it does but the responsiblity to change lies with EVERYONE on the planet not just the chosen few. So sitting for example blaming the PM for the state of the country is just denying the responsibility the individual has to be the best they can etc.
We as a race are changing, more and more of the "negative" stuff is being brought to the surface, if we look at it and decide we can no longer tolerate it then surely that is a positive step? Only by being aware of some of the horrors in the world can we take steps to deal with them?
Everyone alive has a contribution to make to the world, EVERYONE, but until everyone alive believes this then it will be a slow change. We need to look past race, colour, religion etc. A lot of people in the world do and this is the tide that is turning. However this brings out a lot of fear in people who dont feel that safe in general, that brings out the "lunatics", who would rather live in their fearful state as its something they know, whether they like it or not is irrelevant. Human beings tend to stick to things they know and this brings a sort of comfort to them.
Chaos is needed to break down what was there previously so that something new can spring forth. Chaos is a natural part of the cycle of life.
Chaos is loose in the world just now. I would urge you to resist looking at the "half empty" glass and focus on the "half full".
Reality is what you make it. Focus on the negative then you will only see negative. Look at the positive and its a whole different ball game.
K
Basically I agree with what you have said apart from one aspect. I am not seeing only the negative side. I began to think along the line of my present philosophies 35 years ago but have always had the same degree of optimism expressed by other posters on this thread. Over that period I have seen a huge increase in the negative aspect and not much improvement in the positive which has eroded my optimism more than a little.
I believe that, in the long run, one can only be concerned about and do something about, one's own kharma in the belief that we create our own reality and that everyone lives in their own. Although there are not many on this forum who would agree with me, we are heading for Judgement Day and when put on the scales, the negative will swing the balance and the game at this level will end. Order has always grown out of necessary
chaos but that can only remain true if the root reality ie Planet Earth remains intact. Is this a guaranteed future in the face of the seismic and volcanic activity and the political system armed with the Bomb. Possibly not. The Christians wait for the writings of St. John the Devine to come true and the Apoalypse begin. They could be right! Spiritually the human race is at its lowest ebb and, although millions pay lip service to the teachings of one faith or another, not that many are living according to the true teachings of the Christian church or any other church for that matter.
I quietly wait for it all to end while daily enjoying the positive and optimistic side. A person with a terminal illness will try to enjoy what time is left to them and try to ignore the problem because it can't be fixed. This is my attitude to the possible insanity of the human race.
onecalledk
09-Sep-10, 14:30
I would disagree with you that spiritually the human race is at its lowest ebb. Spirituality has nothing to do with organised religions. There is a lot of chaos in all churches of all faiths just now and that is perhaps to make the human race think for themselves. It is only by looking within that we can find our own truths.
I have met many people who are religious but who are not spiritual at all. To blindly follow in a faith that states they are better than any other faith is devisory and dangerous.
We are all one. When we harm anyone we also harm ourselves. We create wars which end up hurting EVERYONE involved, there are no winners in wars. We should be existing in harmony but whilst there are organised religions which promote division from others there will be no harmony.
Organisations that promote greed and division are breaking down. The human race far from heading towards an apocalypse is heading towards freedom. Freedom from greed and intolerance. BUT chaos makes people do strange things. The human race is trying to cling on to a way of life that has brought them to their knees. Not everyone buys into the fear and greed that is alive on this planet.
If everyone took a step back from the need to "be better", "to be right" and learned to live at peace WITH THEMSELVES first of all this world would get to where its going a lot faster. To cling onto the old brings pain, to let go of the old and see an alternative will bring change.
K
People look to different places for guidance. For some it's science that can provide all the answers and guidance for the future. For some it's religion. Personally I think that there is someone to turn to, there is someone to guide us, and there is someone who cares....
How I wish I could agree with you.
Why not sit down with Saveman and discuss why he believes it? At the very least you will have an interesting chat with a down earth guy. On the other hand you could discover a life changing view of our world which will give you a positive outlook and hope for the future.
I would disagree with you that spiritually the human race is at its lowest ebb. Spirituality has nothing to do with organised religions. There is a lot of chaos in all churches of all faiths just now and that is perhaps to make the human race think for themselves. It is only by looking within that we can find our own truths.
I have met many people who are religious but who are not spiritual at all. To blindly follow in a faith that states they are better than any other faith is devisory and dangerous.
We are all one. When we harm anyone we also harm ourselves. We create wars which end up hurting EVERYONE involved, there are no winners in wars. We should be existing in harmony but whilst there are organised religions which promote division from others there will be no harmony.
Organisations that promote greed and division are breaking down. The human race far from heading towards an apocalypse is heading towards freedom. Freedom from greed and intolerance. BUT chaos makes people do strange things. The human race is trying to cling on to a way of life that has brought them to their knees. Not everyone buys into the fear and greed that is alive on this planet.
If everyone took a step back from the need to "be better", "to be right" and learned to live at peace WITH THEMSELVES first of all this world would get to where its going a lot faster. To cling onto the old brings pain, to let go of the old and see an alternative will bring change.
K
Kharma cannot be ignored. I agree totally with most of what you are saying. I began to let go of the "old ways" many years ago and began to search for alternatives and this resulted in my being branded a nutter in many circles.
I personally believe that we are past the point of no return and no amount of positive thought is going to change the direction we are going in.
Unlike John Little I do not see us as disparate individuals but as a whole which encompasses the totality of life on this planet. We are totally disregarding the right of all creatures to exist and we, in our greed, are making the existance of flora and fauna extemely at risk.
Inherent human hubris which puts us at the top of creation is the major contributary cause of our possible downfall.
The destructive forces which are destroying our eco system have accelerated in the last fifty years and the pollution is inceasing all the time. We are using up planetary resources at an unprecedentd rate with no regard for the consequences. This rape of our planet is out of control and very little is being done to rectify the situation. We have global warming and this has led to heated debate and argument between those who will not accept human culpability and those who think that we are entirely to blame. Does it matter what the cause is when the solution is almost impossible to find.
We are one of the few animals which acively destroys its living space and Earth has finite resources.
Nothing will convince me that the human race is collectively sane.
Niall Fernie
09-Sep-10, 15:30
Watched this last night and then saw this thread, good talk on roughly this topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/nic_marks_the_happy_planet_index.html
Ted.Com is a great site, full of inspiring/interesting stuff, well worth watching.
Why not sit down with Saveman and discuss why he believes it? At the very least you will have an interesting chat with a down earth guy. On the other hand you could discover a life changing view of our world which will give you a positive outlook and hope for the future.
I have discussed religion with an avid appetite for truth with countless people including Saveman. I have studied religion per se for many years, from the age of nine or ten, and I have yet to see the light. The chances of me swallowing Christian or other religious beliefs are pretty slim.
We cannot sit back and wait for divine intervention, it will not come. Any change must come from us and if it doesn't come we are lost. I cannot live in the hope that God might exist. If I am interested in any religion it would have to be the Albigensian Heresy which is extinct, or the Bhudist religion which does not really see a God as such and does not worship as such. I try to keep my personal kharma clean. For example, I have been a vegan fo thirty years because I do not believe we have a right to kill anything that can be avoided and we do not need to prey on other living creatures to survive.
Saveman is happy in his beliefs I can live with mine.
Walter Ego
09-Sep-10, 16:16
Kharma cannot be ignored. I agree totally with most of what you are saying. I began to let go of the "old ways" many years ago and began to search for alternatives and this resulted in my being branded a nutter in many circles.
I personally believe that we are past the point of no return and no amount of positive thought is going to change the direction we are going in.
Unlike John Little I do not see us as disparate individuals but as a whole which encompasses the totality of life on this planet. We are totally disregarding the right of all creatures to exist and we, in our greed, are making the existance of flora and fauna extemely at risk.
Inherent human hubris which puts us at the top of creation is the major contributary cause of our possible downfall.
The destructive forces which are destroying our eco system have accelerated in the last fifty years and the pollution is inceasing all the time. We are using up planetary resources at an unprecedentd rate with no regard for the consequences. This rape of our planet is out of control and very little is being done to rectify the situation. We have global warming and this has led to heated debate and argument between those who will not accept human culpability and those who think that we are entirely to blame. Does it matter what the cause is when the solution is almost impossible to find.
We are one of the few animals which acively destroys its living space and Earth has finite resources.
Nothing will convince me that the human race is collectively sane.
I'll agree with everything you've said there, G2.
Apart from the very last sentance. I think you're crediting the human species with a greater potential sense of world community and responsibility than it will ever have. Sanity isn't really a notion that you can apply to a whole species.
onecalledk
09-Sep-10, 16:25
Watched this last night and then saw this thread, good talk on roughly this topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/nic_marks_the_happy_planet_index.html
Ted.Com is a great site, full of inspiring/interesting stuff, well worth watching.
Very interesting site
:)
Ted.Com is a great site, full of inspiring/interesting stuff, well worth watching.
I'd forgotten all about that site. Some interesting stuff on there.
I'll agree with everything you've said there, G2.
Apart from the very last sentance. I think you're crediting the human species with a greater potential sense of world community and responsibility than it will ever have. Sanity isn't really a notion that you can apply to a whole species.
A hypotheses can be anything. I asked that you imagine the human race as one entity not that it was. Looking at humanity as one entity then I would have no qualms about calling it insane.
Watched this last night and then saw this thread, good talk on roughly this topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/nic_marks_the_happy_planet_index.html
Ted.Com is a great site, full of inspiring/interesting stuff, well worth watching.
Well done Niall, that made me think a lot.
Walter Ego
09-Sep-10, 16:50
A hypotheses can be anything. I asked that you imagine the human race as one entity not that it was. Looking at humanity as one entity then I would have no qualms about calling it insane.
With you now.
And using your hypotheses, I have no alternative but to agree with you.
Watched this last night and then saw this thread, good talk on roughly this topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/nic_marks_the_happy_planet_index.html
Ted.Com is a great site, full of inspiring/interesting stuff, well worth watching.
Yes, this is a good site but quite a number of contributions could be regarded as a bit left field, certainly as left field as my own beliefs.
Some of the contributers are so outré as to have left the field completely.:)
Left the field, gone through the carpark and got chips on the way home[lol]
Watched this last night and then saw this thread, good talk on roughly this topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/nic_marks_the_happy_planet_index.html
Ted.Com is a great site, full of inspiring/interesting stuff, well worth watching.
Interesting....yes...his Trousers/ jeans no! You'd think he would dress up a wee bit!
Interesting....yes...his Trousers/ jeans no! You'd think he would dress up a wee bit!
Why? Would it enhance his credulity?:) I suppose that should read 'credibility.'
Why? Would it enhance his credulity?:)
Perhaps.....Am I too olde..... to look at a good presenter in person and that person be presentable
Perhaps.....Am I too olde..... to look at a good presenter in person and that person be presentable
I was once told by a punter that my band would sound a lot better if we all dressed the same. I didn't believe that either.
I was once told by a punter that my band would sound a lot better if we all dressed the same. I didn't believe that either.
I know a tenured Professor of Political Science, who decided to do the 'jeans thing'....... He felt that he had more respect/attention by being attired..........business casual!
onecalledk
09-Sep-10, 18:45
surely it doesnt matter if he was dressed in tinfoil and had a plant pot on top of his head, its the words that come out of his mouth that are important.
Again if people judged less, so what if someone is dressed casual? although I do tend to draw the line at the youth of today who like wearing their jeans half way down their legs :)
K
[quote=onecalledk;758587]surely it doesnt matter if he was dressed in tinfoil and had a plant pot on top of his head, its the words that come out of his mouth that are important.
Again if people judged less, so what if someone is dressed casual? although I do tend to draw the line at the youth of today who like wearing their jeans half way down their legs
:)
I think we are seeing the results of such a comment in our schools...To each his/her own..Politically correct of course!.....
Here we see a thread about the apparent insanity of the human race and it ends up discussing dress code. Surely this backs up my hypotheses? LOL:lol:
oldmarine
09-Sep-10, 19:20
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=5665
Looking at the past as I sat having a solitary Hogmany, it seems to me that the human slide into destructive decadence has accelerated beyond belief. This observation draws me to the conclusion that the whole human race could be sectioned as being completely insane. We destroy the future as we bicker and argue over our beliefs and we fight to ensure that we continue to live the life of Riley at the expense of our children and our grandchildren. Can we learn from the past or do we ignore the demands of the future so that we can support a present of hedonistic plenty?.
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=20247
Just over a year ago I posted my first thread on this Forum where I expostulated that the Human Race is certifiably insane. One year down the line and I am more certain than ever that we are crazy.
Whether it is on this Forum or the worldwide stage we are busy arguing and fighting, bickering on a ridiculously low level and seem to be completely unable to co-exist with those we see as different whether in colour, religion, nationality or even sex. Is all hope gone, or is there a vestige of sanity left in this barren race which seems hellbent on self-destruction?
Politically, I don't think that anyone can say that Western involvement in Asia has benefitted the people of Afghanistan or Iraq and our lack of true involvement is doing little to improve the lot of the Palestinians or the Ethiopians. We get too fat when the other half starve to death.
Our eco-system is going crazy and we cannot even agree on the cause(s) and continue to pollute the environment to an unprecedented degree. What we do achieve is too little, too late and meanwhile the ice melts and the Gulf sream falters.
At a time when all humanity should be pulling together to avert the aproaching catastrophes we are splitting into smaller and smaller groups fighting each other. Even on this message board we cannot exchange ideas without attack and defence and bruised egos. As above, so below and all change must first come from the individual. How sad that we can hide the truth from ourselves when we have to shoulder blame, shame and guilt.
Yes, in my opinion, the human race is collectively insane.
The first link was to my first thread on this forum followed by the First paragraph.
The second link was to a thread a year on with its first paragraph.
Three plus years on and I feel that my statements on the sanity of the human race are even more true. Is there no end to our collective madness..
Gleber 2: You have made some good observations here in this post. During my 85 years on this mud ball planet I have observed many things that makes me question the sanity of the human race. During WW2 I answered my country's call to defend her against a common enemy of the USA & Great Britain. We developed a weapon of mass destruction that was used on the common enemy with successful effect. What worries me now is that same weapon is now in the hands of many different countries we don't trust. And so what is our future? Ultimate destruction or peace? Take your pick for the answer.
Here we see a thread about the apparent insanity of the human race and it ends up discussing dress code. Surely this backs up my hypotheses? LOL:lol:
A small thought into your superior analytical skill...............
When we start at the bottom and work our way up then we can have success.....Correct the smaller things in life....e.g. respect., and we will work our way up to a better way of life....generally.
You said it so well yourself....Change must come from us.
Another example....New York City...Their terrible crime problems....not cured, but much better when they actually did something about the littering and minor damage. Every little bit helps!
You are at the top.......one must start at the bottom and work towards the top...
A small thought into your superior analytical skill...............
You are at the top.......one must start at the bottom and work towards the top...
Sarcasm?? Why?
Me at the top? In every way you must be joking. I laugh.LOL:D
I am afraid that you are right but we do not have the time.
Insane no, misguided,misinformed,uneducated,self centered,bigoted,uncaring and unsharing are some of the words I would use about the human race.
I suspect that education should be the way forward if taught in a correct manner and not just covering a narrow field with the object of obtaining certificates at the end of it.Education should be about seeking answers and combining knowledge with good measures of common sense thrown in so that the student can make an informed and considered judgement.This however will not be achieved all the while certain dogmas are adhered to and the teachings of religeous texts that allow no challenge to their veracity.
Until we as a race learn to respect our planet and each other then there is little hope, ultimately we will not only destroy the very enviroment that we live in but ourselves too.
Tread lightly upon the earth, leave no prints to show where you have been and hand it on in a better condition than you found it,nurture nature and the land, embrace people who are different and by befriending them, come to understand.
That was the doctrine of my late father which I have endeavoured to pass on to my descendents as I think he just about hit the nail on the head.
The message contained in this thread is..... The end Is Nigh.
Mind you Gleber uses much more sophisticated language to push home his point but the bottom line is he is telling us that our civilisation as we know it is going to come to an end.. soonish. :eek:
Holy books are full of this kind of prophecy so its no surprise to find modern humans caught up in the same intelectual trickery although Im sure Gleber believes his forecast for the future just as Ezekiel and Isaiah believed there's along with millions of fellow followers. I wonder if they are disappointed when they discover its only themselves that are coming to an end.
Thats what I call insane. :lol:
This thread reaks of religous fervour. Your all as bad as one another. Jews Christians Mohammedans and whatever else your crazy enough to believe. Its all pure nonsense. Imagination resulting in delusionary beliefs and you dont need to smoke dope to catch it either. It's rampant.
That's what's insane. [evil]
John Little
09-Sep-10, 21:35
Hmmm - he's got a point you know.....
This thread reaks of religous fervour. Your all as bad as one another. Jews Christians Mohammedans and whatever else your crazy enough to believe. Its all pure nonsense. Imagination resulting in delusionary beliefs and you dont need to smoke dope to catch it either. It's rampant.
That's what's insane. [evil]
Seemed to me as if they are just worried about what future we are bringing to the younger generation?
John Little
09-Sep-10, 21:49
David Cameron goes on a lot about leaving stuff to the next generations.
Know what?
I think the next generation grows up and deals with its world.
Same as we do.
I hope there is a difference in the way we speak to each other and the way cameron and co speak and also I hope our motives are different.
That is we differ, I think the next generation should have better than we do.
John Little
09-Sep-10, 21:58
I hope there is a difference in the way we speak to each other and the way cameron and co speak and also I hope our motives are different.
That is we differ, I think the next generation should have better than we do.
Why?
They will make the world they want.
Or deserve.
And will not blame past generations for how things are, any more than we do. It's a fancy.
We are responsible for our age and our world. Theirs is a far distant and other world.
That may have been reasonable when things like the eco system and finite resources (and maybe even the planet) where not at stake but now it's whole different ball game.
We are not leaving the younger generation a well built village hall or an embarrassing national flag, we are leaving them starvation and war.
David Cameron goes on a lot about leaving stuff to the next generations.
Know what?
I think the next generation grows up and deals with its world.
Same as we do.
A reeking dirty planet with polluted air and completely depleted natural resources. A world which we have destroyed for them by the greed of rampant consumerism directly coming from an unperecedented thirst for toys and things to make life easier for us and to supply us with endless entertainment. Where we have cut down the trees and made hundreds of living creatures extinct. Where we have created mountains of high level radioactive waste and haven't a clue what to do with it. Leave it to the kids?
I wonder how they will cope.
John Little
09-Sep-10, 22:11
You have perfectly described the world of 1880. The Clyde, the Scottish coalfield, the Welsh valleys, the Black Country. The London Smogs, the slums of Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield. The shipyards of Jarrow, Tyneside etc.
That's the smokey polluted world as it was in the days before clean air acts and environmental legislation..
How did we deal with it?
And do we blame them?
Or is that a futile exercise?
We live in the world we live in.
We cope with the problems we live with.
We hand it on.
Your responsibility ends. You are not guilty.
Te Absolvo.
The message contained in this thread is..... The end Is Nigh.
Mind you Gleber uses much more sophisticated language to push home his point but the bottom line is he is telling us that our civilisation as we know it is going to come to an end.. soonish. :eek:
Holy books are full of this kind of prophecy so its no surprise to find modern humans caught up in the same intelectual trickery although Im sure Gleber believes his forecast for the future just as Ezekiel and Isaiah believed there's along with millions of fellow followers. I wonder if they are disappointed when they discover its only themselves that are coming to an end.
Thats what I call insane. :lol:
As you well know G, there is nothing whatsoever religious about me and my conclusions come from observation of the totality of existance over forty odd years. I see the signs of the inevitable collapse of the world capitalist empire every time I watch the news. The pyramid is collapsing!!
I do not prophesy the future I follow trends and signs and
extrapolate
However, on a differnt plane I can see the signs and hints in all of the prophesies and the nexus point where they will coincide. It makes me fear for the future but not to predict it.
This thread reaks of religous fervour. Your all as bad as one another. Jews Christians Mohammedans and whatever else your crazy enough to believe. Its all pure nonsense. Imagination resulting in delusionary beliefs and you dont need to smoke dope to catch it either. It's rampant.
That's what's insane. [evil]
You were involved with religion more than I ever was. What more did you learn other than your statement that it is all insane?
I asked if the human race was insane. Religion never entered into it.
This is it, back then was the beginning of the destruction we see today. Back then they were leaving a dirty localised atmosphere to clean up. Do you not agree what we are seeing now is on a much larger scale? Who is to blame? Just like all Germans are not to blame for WW2 but the people in power at the time were. As you say John all humans living are not to blame how could they possibly be, but those in power are.
You have perfectly described the world of 1880. The Clyde, the Scottish coalfield, the Welsh valleys, the Black Country. The London Smogs, the slums of Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield. The shipyards of Jarrow, Tyneside etc.
That's the smokey polluted world as it was in the days before clean air acts and environmental legislation..
How did we deal with it?
And do we blame them?
Or is that a futile exercise?
We live in the world we live in.
We cope with the problems we live with.
We hand it on.
Your responsibility ends. You are not guilty.
Te Absolvo.
Someone once said to me that we had used up more of the worlds resources and created more pollution in the second fifty years of the last century than we had in all human time on this earth. At the rate we are going with the tecnological advances and greater need for raw materials, our children will have nothing to cope with and we are guilty.
Mea culpa.
I asked if the human race was insane. Religion never entered into it.
I know but I am saying this stuff your punting is your religion. It fills the same space as jesus does for some and nearly did for me.
Your religion may be exclusively glebite but religion it is.
That's what makes it insane. lol
Life is better when you're slightly insane ;)
Serious all the time is not fun :D
This thread reaks of religous fervour. Your all as bad as one another. Jews Christians Mohammedans and whatever else your crazy enough to believe. Its all pure nonsense. Imagination resulting in delusionary beliefs and you dont need to smoke dope to catch it either. It's rampant.
That's what's insane. [evil]
Ohhhhhhhhh, gloves are off ;)
I know but I am saying this stuff your punting is your religion. It fills the same space as jesus does for some and nearly did for me.
Your religion may be exclusively glebite but religion it is.
No way.No way. Using any definition of the word religion, no way. I am punting nothing I am but stating my opinion.
John Little
09-Sep-10, 22:24
I have said this before.
The problem is not one of guilt or responsibility.
It is that there are simply too many people.
We are 7 billions.
25% of the earth's surface supports 7 billions of people.
It can only do so because of Industrial processes. Processed clothes, dwellings, food etc. Without industry, no billions.
So you may talk about global warming, environmental destruction etc to your heart's content, but it's a futile exercise because you condemn the very thing which keeps so many people in existence.
You want a better planet?
Reduce the population.
If not, then beating your breast and covering your head with ashes achieves precisely nothing,
I am punting nothing I am but stating my opinion.
But does anyone care of your opinion, I certainly dont.
I have said this before.
The problem is not one of guilt or responsibility.
It is that there are simply too many people.
We are 7 billions.
25% of the earth's surface supports 7 billions of people.
It can only do so because of Industrial processes. Processed clothes, dwellings, food etc. Without industry, no billions.
So you may talk about global warming, environmental destruction etc to your heart's content, but it's a futile exercise because you condemn the very thing which keeps so many people in existence.
You want a better planet?
Reduce the population.
If not, then beating your breast and covering your head with ashes achieves precisely nothing,
We grow enough food on this planet to feed everyone on it but it is grown for profit not people. I do not condemn the process needed
to keep us in style. I am fully aware of the necessities for life on this planet but if money were not the driving force behind the supply of such necessities we would be able to cope with the demand right now.
Granted, we have a population problem and if we run to history's pattern, war natural disaster and plague will remove a fair number.
I can assure you, like many others, I am not beating my breast or covering myself with ashes. You do that when the death moment comes, until the we enjoy the time that we have left.
I have said this before.
The problem is not one of guilt or responsibility.
It is that there are simply too many people.
We are 7 billions.
25% of the earth's surface supports 7 billions of people.
It can only do so because of Industrial processes. Processed clothes, dwellings, food etc. Without industry, no billions.
So you may talk about global warming, environmental destruction etc to your heart's content, but it's a futile exercise because you condemn the very thing which keeps so many people in existence.
You want a better planet?
Reduce the population.
A little two dimensional don't you think? There must be another way?
But does anyone care of your opinion, I certainly dont.
Then don't read the thread.
I think when wer'e talking about the future of our world it's better to keep, religion out of it and that includes the armageddon stuff, Karma and spirituality although theyre all the same anyway.
It frightens me when people say the planets population is too high because the only way to fix that is to reduce the population.
Hows that going to happen?
It kind of confirms glebers phantasies?
If billions are going to be eliminated that couldnt happen without a lot of pain.
Maybe theres a flood coming? Or a plague?.
Alternatively, maybe our grandchildren will be much wiser about the way of the world than their grandparents?
They deserve credit now because handle it they will.
John Little
09-Sep-10, 22:36
"We grow enough food on this planet to feed everyone on it but it is grown for profit not people. I do not condemn the process needed
to keep us in style. I am fully aware of the necessities for life on this planet but if money were not the driving force behind the supply of such necessities we would be able to cope with the demand right now.
Granted, we have a population problem and if we run to history's pattern, war natural disaster and plague will remove a fair number.
I can assure you, like many others, I am not beating my breast or covering myself with ashes. You do that when the death moment comes, until the we enjoy the time that we have left."
Why then we agree!
Throw the angst out of the window, stop worrying about what the grownups of the future will do and get on with your life, which alone you are responsible for.
You will be a lot happier for it....
John Little
09-Sep-10, 22:38
A little two dimensional don't you think? There must be another way?
Any suggestions?
you dispute my accuracy?
I think when wer'e talking about the future of our world it's better to keep, religion out of it and that includes the armageddon stuff, Karma and spirituality although theyre all the same anyway.
It frightens me when people say the planets population is too high because the only way to fix that is to reduce the population.
Hows that going to happen?
It kind of confirms glebers phantasies?
If billions are going to be eliminated that couldnt happen without a lot of pain.
Maybe theres a flood coming? Or a plague?.
Alternatively, maybe our grandchildren will be much wiser about the way of the world than their grandparents?
They deserve credit now because handle it they will.
G I Don't have any fantasies and you really shouldnt totally reject the thinking of so many thinkers just because you haven't seen it. Armageddon or Ragnarock, every culture has one, and to deny the existance of Kharma is dangerous.
I wish I had your unbridled optimism for the future.
John Little
09-Sep-10, 22:42
I think when wer'e talking about the future of our world it's better to keep, religion out of it and that includes the armageddon stuff, Karma and spirituality although theyre all the same anyway.
It frightens me when people say the planets population is too high because the only way to fix that is to reduce the population.
Hows that going to happen?
It kind of confirms glebers phantasies?
If billions are going to be eliminated that couldnt happen without a lot of pain.
Maybe theres a flood coming? Or a plague?.
Alternatively, maybe our grandchildren will be much wiser about the way of the world than their grandparents?
They deserve credit now because handle it they will.
It frightens you because it is frightening.
You know the Malthusian equation?
Food supply goes up arithmetically - 1,2,4,6,8,10'
Population goes up geometrically 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128'
The Co2. The global warming etc - rises with the population.
Yes you should be worried.
G I Don't have any fantasies and you really shouldnt totally reject the thinking of so many thinkers just because you haven't seen it. Armageddon or Ragnarock, every culture has one, and to deny the existance of Kharma is dangerous.
I wish I had your unbridled optimism for the future.
I wish I had it too because the truth is everybodies talking like you in their own little way. :)
Ive never felt so much doom and gloom.
Fox news doesnt help.
"We grow enough food on this planet to feed everyone on it but it is grown for profit not people. I do not condemn the process needed
to keep us in style. I am fully aware of the necessities for life on this planet but if money were not the driving force behind the supply of such necessities we would be able to cope with the demand right now.
Granted, we have a population problem and if we run to history's pattern, war natural disaster and plague will remove a fair number.
I can assure you, like many others, I am not beating my breast or covering myself with ashes. You do that when the death moment comes, until the we enjoy the time that we have left."
Why then we agree!
Throw the angst out of the window, stop worrying about what the grownups of the future will do and get on with your life, which alone you are responsible for.
You will be a lot happier for it....
I don't feel angst for the dastardy deeds we have done in history nor for what might happen in the future history. I look after my own kharma and if truth were to be told, don't care much what happens or has happened but this attitude does not preclude me from observing and extrapolating.
You are a little presumptious to gauge my happiness level without knowing me at all.;)
It frightens you because it is frightening.
You know the Malthusian equation?
Food supply goes up arithmetically - 1,2,4,6,8,10'
Population goes up geometrically 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128'
The Co2. The global warming etc - rises with the population.
Yes you should be worried.
Playing your scenario out to the end is frightening and its very similar in content to what glebers suggesting.
However, glass half full and all that. :Razz
Playing your scenario out to the end is frightening and its very similar in content to what glebers suggesting.
However, glass half full and all that. :Razz
Ayeb but the glass is damn near empty.
Any suggestions?
you dispute my accuracy?
Of course not. The reduction or end of the human species would be the best thing to happen to this planet since....well for a long time.
My suggestions...To keep thinking about it. Just as a scientist when he cannot find an executable solution does not decide to burn the experiment or rip out the bits he finds are hard to handle - The reduction of Earth's population is great in theory.
John Little
09-Sep-10, 22:49
Oh my glass is very definitely half full for several reasons.
1 It will be a real problem long after my time
2 It ain't my problem.
3 It may never happen - it's a scenario. You can't predict the future with any certainty. Only loons think so.
Either way I have enough problems of my own. Sufficient to the day and so on....
Yes I'm half full because I'm having a ball.
I'm going to bed too - nite nite!
and to deny the existance of Kharma is dangerous.
See? Thats the most outragous religious behaviour right in front of our very eyes. Fear. To believe in Karma opens a whole can of worms about morality and human behaviour and why people are born with disabilities. Its nonsense and I dont fear it.
Its also insane. :lol:
Ayeb but the glass is damn near empty.
My glass has been empty for a while but like the tattie shoots in a dark room, they will crawl to the faintest light to fulfill their potential.
Its also insane. :lol:
.
Ye callan me insane check. Watch it biy or I'll slap ye roond e keyboard.
Oh my glass is very definitely half full for several reasons.
1 It will be a real problem long after my time
2 It ain't my problem.
3 It may never happen - it's a scenario. You can't predict the future with any certainty. Only loons think so.
Either way I have enough problems of my own. Sufficient to the day and so on....
Yes I'm half full because I'm having a ball.
I'm going to bed too - nite nite!
Point 1......You hope
2 Sure?
3 But it may. Are you not predicting your own scenario where you're all right and the future can look after itself because it's bound to be allright. Are you a loon too?
It will not take much for our financial situation to go into meltdown and that will essentially bring an end to reality as we know it and perhaps sooner than you seem to want to think.
With my half empty glass I will have the timerity to quote a song which is relevant and which I am in the process of recording tonight, It must be a good song because Gleeber likes it.
This is the last verse
We have polluted the land
Polluted the sea, poisoned the air we breath
And what we've done to the birds and beasts
Can scarecly be believed.
We are still fighthing wars,
Dealing in death
And never seem to learn
That the way of the gun
Is completely wrong
And never will bring peace
Fire and water
Earth and wind
Daily claiming lives
Is the mother fighthing back
In China and Pakistan.
Hurricane winds begin to blow
volcanos start to erupt
Earthquakes shake the ground beneath
And man cannot fight back.
It could be soon.
This song is backed by a bouncy reggae rhythm which makes you want to dance.
As the universe burns I reckon I'll be playing my guitar as I watch it. Nero was bit oldfashioned.
With my half empty glass I will have the timerity to quote a song which is relevant and which I am in the process of recording tonight, It must be a good song because Gleeber likes it.
This is the last verse
We have polluted the land
Polluted the sea, poisoned the air we breath
And what we've done to the birds and beasts
Can scarecly be believed.
We are still fighthing wars,
Dealing in death
And never seem to learn
That the way of the gun
Is completely wrong
And never will bring peace
Fire and water
Earth and wind
Daily claiming lives
Is the mother fighthing back
In China and Pakistan.
Hurricane winds begin to blow
volcanos start to erupt
Earthquakes shake the ground beneath
And man cannot fight back.
It could be soon.
This song is backed by a bouncy reggae rhythm which makes you want to dance.
As the universe burns I reckon I'll be playing my guitar as I watch it. Nero was bit oldfashioned.
I'll come and watch as well. While youre playing I'll be skinning up. (Purely for my "bad back" though)
Get it posted on the music section so I'll know the tune.
The present hoo ha about the Koran burnings is surely a fair indication of the Human mental state.
John Little
10-Sep-10, 17:41
With my half empty glass I will have the timerity to quote a song which is relevant and which I am in the process of recording tonight, It must be a good song because Gleeber likes it.
This is the last verse
We have polluted the land
Polluted the sea, poisoned the air we breath
And what we've done to the birds and beasts
Can scarecly be believed.
We are still fighthing wars,
Dealing in death
And never seem to learn
That the way of the gun
Is completely wrong
And never will bring peace
Fire and water
Earth and wind
Daily claiming lives
Is the mother fighthing back
In China and Pakistan.
Hurricane winds begin to blow
volcanos start to erupt
Earthquakes shake the ground beneath
And man cannot fight back.
It could be soon.
This song is backed by a bouncy reggae rhythm which makes you want to dance.
As the universe burns I reckon I'll be playing my guitar as I watch it. Nero was bit oldfashioned.
This is better; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo
But we're still here.....
Each generation has its introspection.
If it is crazy to allow the adults of 100 years hence to run their own lives without feeling that I am responsible for what they do- why then yes I am a loon.
I do not hold Lloyd George, HH Asquith, Stanley Baldwin or Ramsay McDonald responsible for my troubles. I should not think that people in 80-100 years will give it another thought. They'll just get on with things.
John Little
10-Sep-10, 17:48
The present hoo ha about the Koran burnings is surely a fair indication of the Human mental state.
Actually the present hoo-ha about the Koran burnings is indicative of no such thing. It merely indicates that some people are very stupid.
You know Gleeber was right - this is a religious thread even if you don't know it.
This is the Fall.
Once there was an earthly paradise - but we strayed, we fell. God sent an angel to cast us out. We are sinners and we should mend our sinful ways.
Or Milton - Paradise Lost - we are a race of fallen angels and we should mend our evil ways and return to a state of grace where all is green and ecological and health and safety rules all.
Except there never was an earthly Paradise.
Or a golden age.
And human beings have always exploited their surroundings. And the world goes on.
I begin to think that you seek an emetic or an enema to purge you of your own imagined guilt.
You are not responsible.
Just look over towards Orkney - and enjoy.
This is better; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo
But we're still here.....
Each generation has its introspection.
If it is crazy to allow the adults of 100 years hence to run their own lives without feeling that I am responsible for what they do- why then yes I am a loon.
I do not hold Lloyd George, HH Asquith, Stanley Baldwin or Ramsay McDonald responsible for my troubles. I should not think that people in 80-100 years will give it another thought. They'll just get on with things.
If indeed there are things to get on with.
How can you say that"this is better" when you have read one verse of three and not heard it?
As it is, I really didn't like Barry Maguire or his songwriting at the time.
John Little
10-Sep-10, 18:04
"If indeed there are things to get on with.
How can you say that"this is better" when you have read one verse of three and not heard it?
As it is, I really didn't like Barry Maguire or his songwriting at the time."
I think the world will still be here.
You are in a gloomy mood aren't you?
Is there nothing I can say to cheer you up or take your guilt away?
As to your song, Maguire's is iconic, sold across the world, caught the imagination of millions and,especially in context, has a pithy raw bitter taste which still echoes in the world of today.
Maybe when yours does I may admit to a certain bias and consider revising my view.
I like it - always did - and it's a good tune.
And I have not heard your tune.
But hey - it's all subjective anyway.
Actually the present hoo-ha about the Koran burnings is indicative of no such thing. It merely indicates that some people are very stupid.
You know Gleeber was right - this is a religious thread even if you don't know it.
This is the Fall.
Once there was an earthly paradise - but we strayed, we fell. God sent an angel to cast us out. We are sinners and we should mend our sinful ways.
Or Milton - Paradise Lost - we are a race of fallen angels and we should mend our evil ways and return to a state of grace where all is green and ecological and health and safety rules all.
Except there never was an earthly Paradise.
Or a golden age.
And human beings have always exploited their surroundings. And the world goes on.
I begin to think that you seek an emetic or an enema to purge you of your own imagined guilt.
You are not responsible.
Just look over towards Orkney - and enjoy.
Lets get one thing straight, this thread is about the hypothetical insanity of the human race and the religious aspect was not introduced by me.
So Mr. Allegro, not every one has guilt, imagined or otherwise. And that includes me. You are reading things into my posts which aren't there.
We have never exploited our surroundings to the extent we are now and that is fact though.
You seem to spend more time passing comments on me personally than you do on the thread topic in general. OK Chacun a son gout, but you are jumping to unsubstanciated conclusions about me which are, on the whole totally wrong.
I see Orkney countless time a day without taking it for granted. You seem to take the planet for granted and seem to think that it will always be there to be exploited. Perhaps it will but your optimism is as poorly founded as the pessimism you seem to accuse me of
Il Ponderosa.
I am not in a gloomy mood. At my age one does not expect to have that much time left and I am fairly sure that if the cataclysm does come it won't bother me much. Therefore no gloom at my own hypotheses or thoughts.
Does the fact that a song sold a lot the only criteria to judge its quality.
Unfortunately, not true.
John Little
10-Sep-10, 18:36
I think you mean Ponderoso Mr Alleghieri.....
I think you mean Ponderoso Mr Mr Alleghieri.....Alleghieri.....
It seems I meant Il Penserosa, L'allegro
In my copmparative ignorance I cannot suss the Alleghieri Quote but then I have never bothered much with Dante.
Well John Little, they call me John Fats.
John Little
10-Sep-10, 18:42
Unfortunately this thread is not an in vitro consideration, nor is it objective.
Its original thesis is one of such overwhelming pessimism that it seemed to me that the author of it was rather steeped in gloom.
I hoped to dispel it with a dash of optimism.
I see now that you would rather that I did not- so will void the field/thread and leave you to bathe in it uninterrupted by yours truly.
Oh hardly unprecedented. Merely tactful. Neither you nor I are female.... are we???
Maybe you are - if so madam then I apologise for my presumption.
This is better; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo
Or depending what mood you're in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxrXQGrc5e8
L'allegro
Just in case you have bowed out of the debate, I point out that I edited the post before your last one.
Il Penserosa.
John Little
10-Sep-10, 19:11
It seems I meant Il Penserosa, L'allegro
In my copmparative ignorance I cannot suss the Alleghieri Quote but then I have never bothered much with Dante.
Well John Little, they call me John Fats.
Mr Fats - I had decided to bow out, but since you are now Penserosa, and obviously a lady, I cannot resist;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjqx8rUUklg
Mr Fats - I had decided to bow out, but since you are now Penserosa, and obviously a lady, I cannot resist;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjqx8rUUklg
Point taken.
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