View Full Version : CASE gives out Public Money Loans
Roll-up Roll-up ,you to can have a loan at a rate to suit yourself . What does Joe Public think off the a system that's seems to be there for the benefit off the few .Let's hear what you think of the 1.2million pound loan to a company that has had more than it's fair share of Grants over the years .We the Public were lead to believe that Norfrost were a cash rich business .Maybe there will be a turbine or two in Castletown yet??
Well Chester
1.2 million pounds is a lot of money. Before i personally decide what i think about this i would like to know a few things.
How many full time sustainable jobs are going to be created?
How much money and business will be brought into the company and into caithness as a result of aquiring this loan?
What sort of quality training for our young people is going to be made available as a result of this loan?
How is the effectiveness of this loan going to be measured?
How are we - the tax payers - going to be assured that this is the best thing for Caithness?
What safeguards are there to ensure that this is a wise investment - a sensible use of public funds?
In other words - what are we the tax payers - going to get back from the award of this loan.
I wait to be informed
Do you think that CASE would have given this sum of money to a group of ex-caithness glass employees to keep the factory open and the jobs in Wick .Or is it a case of "those who have get" It makes No sense to give a loan or class it as working capital .
Is there folk out there that have had their idea's crushed by CASE,and through the lack of funding have the a project go to waste
Is it a loan or is it a grant? I presume they would have to pay back a loan but that would not be the case with a grant.
I would like to be positive about this - retension of jobs, increase in work etc but have a nagging doubt about the 'discretionary' procedures which CASE applies. Surely a successful business like Norfrost is able to afford some sort of capital business loan from a bank for at least part of a venture like this, with maybe a top-up from CASE instead of getting the whole whack from them?
I do know of at least one business which met the stated CASE criteria for a new business start up but were knocked back with no reasonable answer so it is difficult not to be cynical about their processes. I agree with Squidge's points of view - there should be an easily accessible account of expenditure and value for money.
2little2late
09-Jun-04, 21:47
Perhaps Norfrost are going to be the next company to close its factory. After all, everyone CASE seem to give money to the business seems to close down, e.g. Hunter's of Brora, Caithness glass and who remembers Scotch rocks? The ice cube factory at Berriedale which was given a grant from case in 1998. They didn't last long, they moved to Speyside and ended up closing anyway. If I were a director at Norfrost I wouldn't take the loan as I say CASE are just a total jinx.
If a business cannot generate enough money to be a viable concern it will fold. If it cannot attract enough venture capital or private investor funds it is not viable. There are enough people with enough money to finance any project with commercial possibilities. Government money or quasi-government money is at best unhelpful and at worst debilitating to the country/area/town concerned.
'Silicon Glen' had millions thrown at it but provided low paid assembly line jobs for but a few years until these were relocated to Dbrovnic or Dien Bien Phu or in some cases back to America or Japan.
The only real jobs created are on the back of successful, innovative ideas financed by some hard-nosed person who, themselves wish to make money.
Less Government and Government intervention means more power to the people who matter, which is the likes of you and I, who have to stand on our own two feet without the benefit of charity.
On a similar subject, don't forget to vote today. I would never tell anyone how to vote but the less interference from Edinburgh/London and particularly Brussels/Strasburg the better.
Bluenose, you got it right, if norfrost (or any other company) cannot make money on its own MAYBE it should not exist because it is wasting public money. By the way how many million £ has norfrost had over the years? If it is has such great investment potential surely a bank would bank them. But then again the engineering side is sucessfull..... I am lead to belive.
We can carry this subject farther. The Government spent somewhere in the region of £60 billions on the NHS last year. That is over £1,000 per man, woman, child in the UK. If we were to receive that money personally, with the proviso that we bought personal health insurance with a recognised company, BUPA being the obvious one, everyone, immediately has private status with it's attendant shorter waiting lists, better treatment and all the subsequent benefits. There would be some shortfalls, such as A and E and the chronically sick. However, I haven't checked what the premiums are but they are well below £1,000 for the majority of people. Therefore, if 80% of people can be covered for, say £400-£500, then the £30 billions saved can be used by a slimmed down NHS to provide better care for the seriously ill or A and E patients that require it.
Jobcentreplus is another example, I don't know how much that costs but why does it exist? If you have a position to fill then advertise it in press, newsagents windows wherever. If the position is that important then be prepared to pay to fill it. Not just 'stick it in the job centre' for free and then possible have them issue application form etc.
There are numerous examples, Royal Mail, but I shall come back to that one.
Politicians may be honest, upright, decent people, but they are surplus to requirements in the main. A company run with the bureauocracy of this country would be bankrupt before it began.
Sorry about ranting but it annoys me.
Thanks for reading.
On wasting money, why have more politicians etc wasting money in Edinburgh, when we have plenty of the idiots doing it in London anyway? All in a building that is hundreds of years old and didnt cost us £430million!!! :lol:
But Government and Government QUANGOs must have a finger in every pie possible.
If it's a success then aren't we wonderful, you couldn't exist without us and if it's a failure "Who can we blame?" Either way they think they are on a winner.
In the bad old days the local Landowner bribed the electorate with his own money in order to get his pet candidate elected to do his bidding. Now Governments take as much as they possibly can in order to bribe us with our own money by way of grants, allowances etc. in order to get their pet candidate elected and heaven help them if they don't follow the party whip.
And they call that progress!
If CASE has that type of money to hand out .Why more to a company thats had it's fair share in Grants already . What is the interest lost to CASE in a week on 1.2 mill .If only the interest was used, how many small businesses could have been started since the loan was granted and how many over the length of the loan .There are lots of businesses that would like to start a apprentice or expand with that sort of funding .
There ia not enough spirit in the replys ? who's for and against??
IS IS TRUE ?? That CASE are to have a White Elephant Stall at the HIE business event ?
There is certainly a case to be had for small businesses being given the funding to help them recruit an employee. There is also some help available too i think. Recruit Wick came into being as a direct result of Recruit Sutherland which came from the Sole traders initiative in Wales. This is designed to help small businesses take on their first employee. the reasoning behind it is ok - it should help to tackle unemployment, There is some money available i understand through the highland councils Employment grant scheme and New Deal subsidies but nowhere near the amount available it appears to Norfrost.
Jobcentreplus exists to help the most disadvantaged people in society get work,long term unemployed, people with disabilities, single parents, ex offenders etc, The "Stick a job in and we ll fill it" days are long gone i understand. The focus is largely on support and help for those that need it and thats available through Jobcentreplus advisers and through programmes like New Deal. They also pay benefits to people of working age, its completely different that the old jobcentres that we were used to.
Private Health insurance? hmmmmmm i dunno.I have no idea how to resolve the NHS problems but to make everyone go private I dont think would be the answer. People would fall through the net and end up with no cover and struggling. i would hate that to happen. I would like to look to France and see how they manage their system. that seems to work ok and the care seems to be good.
I do know that in the first two areas i mentioned the thing that makes the difference is the availability of work - sustainable employment.
That is the criteria that should be used to decide whether to grant a loan to any business. Is it going to create sustainable jobs for the people of Caithness who want to live and work here. Without jobs people leave. If norforst can show that by getting this loan they are going to be creating sustainable employment opportunities i would write the cheque myself.
To expand this debate still further.
Why do we not let Government do only the things that an individual or commercial organisation cannot. Such things as national defence, policing/law and order. At the turn of the last century the percentage of GDP spent by the Government was in the order of 10%. Now it is about 42% and that is called progress.
Within my lifetime we had an empire. That empire funded itself and 25% of the world's trade came up the river Thames. That benefited not only Britain but also the poor tobacco grower in Rhodesia, the maize planter in Zaire and the banana grower in the West Indies. It was a commercial organisation that was required to make a profit and the first rule of profit is that you do not let your workforce die.
Before 1960 I don't think there was ever a famine in Africa (Zaire could produce enough maize to feed the continent) but then the winds of change came and Bob Geldoff now spends more time on television than the test card.
Let us run the country/county/city/village as a business. No-one will starve, no-one would be denied health care and no-one would have to sign on because business, and I include every concern from Shell to Joe Bloggs corner shop, would expand to provide employment for everyone that wanted it.
As for the infirm, then perhaps we would find some of the compassion that is lacking today and give more to local charities rather than write a cheque once a year to some one-legged Mozambique boy who stepped on a mine laid by his father in the name of RENAMO, to ease our conscience.
As for Jobcentres getting the disadvantaged into work, that may be so, however my experience tells me that the disadvantaged are in that situation because a) they do not want to work because b) job centres exist to give them money. Cancel all giros for a week and you will find the desperate rather than the bone-idle.
To return to the original theme, taking CASE's money simply prolongs the dependence on Government intervention, which in the long term is only good for civil servants and politicians. It may be unfair to paint them all with the same brush but I see no way of distinguishing the wheat from the chaff.
Thank you.
Also Recruit Wick came into being as a result of Recruit Sutherland, which came into being as a result of Recruit Highlands and Islands, which came into being as a result of Recruit Scotland, which came into being as a result of Recruit Britain, which results in Lord knows how many Government wage bills.
If the civil service was halved overnight very few people outside it would have any idea.
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