Wick Academy Development Fund

[pat]

Liked the comment - thought it was Riggerboy in disguise.

The person I would like to see convene this meeting would be Ann Dunnet, the Lord Lieutenant of Caithness - she has the experience, ability and the knowledge to be able to get the answers and points needed to clear all this up, leaving no stone unturned and no slug still creeping around leaving a slimy trail - would make no bones about her decisions and opinions (shame Ewan Stewart is no longer with us for that, political incorrectness or legality, he could not care, said what he thought!)

Market Square - yes - everyone can hear and many folk can join in from their drinking dens so ensuring a good attendance at the meeting.

[bridgeend]

To save any meeting why do Mr Gunn,Mr More,Mr Carter
,Mr Widemuch,Mr Wares and whoever is on the commitee of WADF not just go to the Groat Office and Give them the Details of the Funds they hold and let the Groat publish the details.
This would be the easy way to sort the matter out or is a case Mr Gunn wishes to do it the Hard Way .

[Tubthumper]

To save any meeting why do Mr Gunn, Mr More, Mr Carter, Mr Widemuch, Mr Wares and whoever is on the commitee of WADF not just go to the Groat Office and Give them the Details of the Funds they hold and let the Groat publish the details.
This would be the easy way to sort the matter out or is a case Mr Gunn wishes to do it the Hard Way .
That's a brilliant idea. That way they could thumb their noses at me and all others on the org, save some face and yet still meet their obligations to the community & the OSCR (and the law) as a charity.

I wouldn't mind, all I want is to know what's there and what (if anything) has been done with it.


(Bet Mr Gunn won't let them do it though!)

[golach]

Where's the best place to book for a public meeting in Wick? It will have to have a top table facing the audience, with seats for a chairman (Jamie Stone?), the committee/ charity trustee's representatives (3 off?), maybe 3 for 'interested parties' representatives, plus public seating for maybe 50?

Try here for a meeting place Tubs, Bill Fernie has had this forum set up for a long time, choose one, there are still a few


http://www.caithness.org/telephones/index.htm

[Happy Guy]

Isn't that a bit big? After all, I'm sure not that many people will want to come along and hear the them state their case, in response to questions from the community they're keeping secrets from working on behalf of?:confused
The Assembly Rooms have a choice of rooms of different sizes, and one that is ideal for a top table and 50-60 public, so would be a good place to use

[Moira]

To save any meeting why do Mr Gunn,Mr More,Mr Carter
,Mr Widemuch,Mr Wares and whoever is on the commitee of WADF not just go to the Groat Office and Give them the Details of the Funds they hold and let the Groat publish the details.
This would be the easy way to sort the matter out or is a case Mr Gunn wishes to do it the Hard Way .

What would they tell the Groat though?

Would it be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but...... ? :D

[pat]

No answer in the post today tubthumper?

Maybe they have run out of ink for copier and your papers will be in the post by end of week!

Well we do have to live in hope! (and as they say die in despair!!!)

[Tubthumper]

Hah!

Nothing in the post today.

People of Wick and environs, rise up against these outrageous charlatans! When you see one of them, demand to know why they are treating us all like idiots.

Don't be afraid of them, their defiance is simply that of the blustering bully. They have no defence, they have simply done nothing with our money, because they are incapable!

We want it back, AND we want answers!:mad:

[gleeber]

Hah!

Nothing in the post today.

People of Wick and environs, rise up against these outrageous charlatans! When you see one of them, demand to know why they are treating us all like idiots.

Don't be afraid of them, their defiance is simply that of the blustering bully. They have no defence, they have simply done nothing with our money, because they are incapable!

We want it back, AND we want answers!:mad:

What a thumper of a thread and post of the century to boot. :)
I never thought I would post on here but Ive been following it from the beginning and over the years in the paper and am fascinated.
I feel quite neutral with no feelings about anything but surely its time this was investigated discreetly and privately by the powers that be?
And quickly?

[pegasus]

What a thumper of a thread and post of the century to boot. :)

It sure is!

The TRUTH will out indeed! :)

[bridgeend]

It sure is!

The TRUTH will out indeed! :)

Truth from the WADF chairman NO CHANCE going by his track record when he was Chairman of Wick Acd FC before he got Booted out .

[Tubthumper]

It's occurred to me that this whole sorry affair could put people off getting involved with fundraising or being a trustee for any charity.

Please, rather than backing off from any donation, commitment, charity role or trusteeship, just make sure that the cause you're interested in is open and straight in its dealings with the public, has no secret committees or agendas, that the books are open to examination (without having to pay and then wait until it's convenient for the 'committee'), and that there are clear objectives which are actively being pursued.

And don't let anyone bully you if you DO get involved! ;)

[pat]

Yes Tubthumper - many folk have already discovered how much work it is being on committees, the work and responsiblities, having to be police checked to be for some committees and groups.

It is not an easy job volunteering but if you do everything by the book, be transparent and above board with all actions it also helps the committee to work smoothly.

Hope a nice big pile of paperowrk from WADF is in the post for you in the morning, if it is not think the time for OSCR to be advised they are not abiding by the rules and for OSCR to start asking questions and getting answers for you.

[Happy Guy]

Is the time not fast approaching when the Police should be asked to become involved?

[Tubthumper]

Is the time not fast approaching when the Police should be asked to become involved?
At the moment, all that we've got are a group of people (identities largely unknown) who have collected a lot of money from people all over the North of Scotland for ten years or more, on the pretext that they would build a sports complex for Wick. Which they obviously haven't done.

And since no-one has seen a planning application, and various agencies don't seem to have heard anything from the group, it seems that they haven't been doing what they said they would do when they (a) collected the money and (b) registered their cause as a charity.

Getting the police involved will be down to the OSCR, if they decide a law has been broken. They are interested in what the WADF have been doing (or not) and are aware of this thread. They have a service expectation but they appreciate that charities have different abilities to respond and try to take account of these.

However, judgement is not made based solely on a ticking clock. As the WADF have been investigated previously AND don't seem to have learned anything (except how to treat the OSCR with the same contempt they treat the rest of us) AND as they are (probably) not acting in accordance with their governing document AND as they have a significant fund at their disposal AND as they have trustees with time to commit AND they are aware of their community's fury and outrage but have done nothing to assuage it, I would imagine that the OSCR will be onto this swiftly, otherwise their role and ability to deal with errant charities will be questioned by us and our elected representatives.

An e-mail, via the OSCR's online complaints process, directed to the lady who is the designated case worker is all it will take. And even if the documents arrive today, 'general' complaints about the WADF's behaviour can be raised by any member of the public who wishes to see further or faster action, when the time is appropriate.

What will be interesting is when the accounts and constitution finally arrive and we decide what we wish to do next (Demand that WADF have a public meeting? Have a public meeting for them? Get the WADF wound up and the funds transferred to a proper charity? Replace the trustees? or whatever).

I feel your frustration. I sense that our community feels betrayed and humiliated. I hope that our representatives and the official bodies can see that.

This thread is like a cannon; balled, wadded and fused, with the flame hovering close by and with a bloody great BANG just about to happen!:Razz Har har har.

[By the way, we're just about to break the 20 000 views barrier - how's THAT for a community web forum!]

[pat]

Well said Tubthumper - you have the community behind you in everything you are doing to unveil and uncover this "committee" who have ignored the wishes of the folk from whom they raised the monies, keep up the good works.

Obviously nothing in this mornings post either.

[Tubthumper]

No post yet (probably lost in the fog!) but will advise when it arrives.

(Re my 'cannon' metaphor - remember it could be a damp squib!) :cool:

[Tubthumper]

Post's been, nothing from WADF. They're obviously holding off as long as possible, thinking that's OK and within the rules. Oh dear.

I'm getting a bit annoyed now. I can be a bit tetchy when I'm annoyed...

[Alice in Blunderland]

I'm getting a bit annoyed now. I can be a bit tetchy when I'm annoyed...

Can you be tetchy and annoyed and clear your inbox as the shy folk who are trying to contact you rather than posting on the forum may not be able too............... ;)

You are either a very popular person with lots of people p'ming you or very lazy and not emptying your pms..........................I wonder which one that is? :Razz

[Tubthumper]

You are either a very popular person with lots of people p'ming you or very lazy and not emptying your pms..........................I wonder which one that is? :Razz
Sorry, sorry, sorry!! Box cleared (again!):eek:

Appreciate people wishing to keep info off the public boards, but please bear with me. I'm only an amateur (and a nerse as well!)

[Alice in Blunderland]

Sorry, sorry, sorry!! Box cleared (again!)

Appreciate people wishing to keep info off the public boards, but please bear with me. I'm only an amateur (and a nerse as well!)


Thank you so much :D

I just love it when people respond promptly to requests from members of the public............................... :Razz

Not bad for an amateur ................or a 'nerse' :eek:( must look that word up in the dictionary )

[Alice in Blunderland]

Post's been, nothing from WADF. They're obviously holding off as long as possible, thinking that's OK and within the rules. Oh dear.

I'm getting a bit annoyed now. I can be a bit tetchy when I'm annoyed...

Tubs I cant remember did you put a date on the letter you expect to get a reply back. It is acceptable according to OSCR for you to set the time limit so long as it is reasonable. ( not one or two days but one or two weeks they suggest)

[Wario]

Still nothing from these people!!!

I suppose we should not be surprised as Gunn, Carter, Wydmuch and Wares have been leading the people of Caithness a merry dance now for over 10 years. All that we have ever been told concerning new football stadiums and sports centres have never came true and all the time they were taking our money[evil]

[Corrie 3]

I see someone on here is trying to organise a Flash Mob!!!!!
Now then, where does Gunn live?????

;):lol:

[Tubthumper]

It is acceptable according to OSCR for you to set the time limit so long as it is reasonable. ( not one or two days but one or two weeks they suggest)
Blast, I wish I'd known that when I sent the letter, no I didn't. I guess they must be being as stinky as they can, and basing the 'reasonable response' time on the moment the cheque cleared.

I've taken a chill pill, and since the WADF are going to spin it out as long as possible, am going to restrict myself to a single post per day, made at 5pm, although I will continue to research. So I guess I'd better make each post a good one! :cool: let's aim for 25 000 views before the information finally arrives!

But that will rely on you all to keep the thread floating. Please don't let it sink off the front page after all this time & effort!

[Tubthumper]

All that we have ever been told concerning new football stadiums and sports centres have never came true and all the time they were taking our money[evil]
It will be interesting to see what's been spent, after all this time.

[Tubthumper]

I see someone on here is trying to organise a Flash Mob!!!!!
C3, hanging your bits out isn't going to speed things up!:eek:

[pat]

Well for those folk who have asked any questions about this fund and have not had them answered satisfactorily you can go on here

http://www.oscr.org.uk/Makingacomplaint.stm

and make them aware of your concerns - the more complaints the more likely they are to quickly investigate thoroughly.

Sorry Tubthumper, I am sure you will not mind everyone stealing your thunder and trying to get answers quicker than you appear to be getting them from WADF!

[Tubthumper]

No problem Pat, as you say the more people who actually register their concerns the more likely the OSCR are to react, and the more chance there is of getting this sorry (and embarrassing!) saga put to bed.

[W.A.D.F. (SC032787)]

The following letter was originally submitted to the editor of North of Scotland Newspapers. Unfortunately, it was deemed to be too long for publication and it was requested that the word count be reduced by >50% before it would be considered. Given the front page headline status of the original article about Wick Academy Development Fund, we were unhappy with this as we felt that it was only fair that it should be published exactly as it was to enable us to answer the questions posed and to enable our side of things to be put across. N.O.S.N. offered to publish it on their website next Friday but that wasn't suitable for us. Given that we have effectively been denied the opportunity to reach all of the local public via the printed John O'Groat Journal newspaper, the letter now appears here in 3 parts!


Dear Editor,
I write in response to the article “Answers Wanted Over Charity Leisure Fund”, which was the front page headline of the 9th of July 2010 edition of the John O’Groat Journal. In the article, it was reported that Jamie Stone MSP, had called for details of the Wick Academy Development Fund (W.A.D.F.) to be made available to the Caithness public. Over the last 9 years W.A.D.F. and its committee members have had to endure plenty of bad publicity and it has mainly been due to the often ill conceived views and actions of others. I have therefore endeavoured to address this situation and I have attempted to show the level of transparency and openness that has been called for.
1) The current management committee of W.A.D.F. are: Chairman – John (Jacky) Gunn, Vice-chairman – William (Billy) More, Secretary – Andrew Carter, Treasurer – William Wydmuch & Executive Officer – Allan Wares. Jacky Gunn, Andrew Carter and William Wydmuch are three of the original founder members of W.A.D.F. while Billy More and Allan Wares have served on the committee and the management committee for a number of years.
2) The registered address of W.A.D.F. is: 16 Thurso Street, Wick, Caithness KW1 5LF.
3) The registered Scottish Charity Number of W.A.D.F. is: SC 032787.
4) W.A.D.F. was formed on the 6th of January 2000 by a small group of like minded people who had a keen interest in, and were actively involved in, local sports and leisure activities. Individually, and collectively, they were fed up with the complete lack of proper sports, leisure and recreation facilities which were available to the people of this area especially when compared to other lesser populated localities and they were determined to try and do something to redress this imbalance.
5) Since that date, W.A.D.F. has been trying to quietly and conscientiously go about its business raising funds towards achieving its aim. This quietness has often been misconstrued by our detractors as secrecy. For some reason, what we have achieved or haven’t achieved, depending on your viewpoint, knowledge and level of expectation, has irked a few people who have then gone out of their way to try and make our lives as difficult as possible.
6) The aim of W.A.D.F. was, and still is, is to provide a much needed sports and leisure and recreation facility for the people of Wick and East Caithness. For phase 1, we envisaged a grass sports pitch and a five hundred seat grandstand incorporating, changing, fitness, leisure and conference facilities with ample associated car parking. Given the background of our management committee, this would unashamedly be aimed at the local football fraternity, although various other grass based sports could readily be accommodated. Additional phases of the proposed development were to incorporate various athletics facilities including a running track; a two-thirds sized football pitch indoor training facility along the lines of those already in use in Scandinavian countries sharing our inclement climate; and an arts performance facility. The area of land that we had been offered would have enabled us to easily incorporate all of these facilities.
7) This may not now be a stand alone facility as was originally envisaged, but could be in the form of an alliance or partnership supporting the development of another body. One possibility that we are currently exploring is whether or not we can become involved in providing the initial funding capital towards any of the leisure and sports developments which may be located at the proposed new Wick High School. It is our wish that the money that we have raised is put to good use and there may well be other ventures that we could become involved in as long as they fall within the remit of our aims and constitution.
8) Since its formation W.A.D.F. has received tremendous support from other charitable groups and trusts that were planning or beginning to operate similar ventures in other areas. One of these trusts was kind enough to loan us the plans of phase 1 of their now up and running facility, and we were also offered valuable technical assistance and encouragement by many of the individuals who were involved with the management of these organisations.
9) W.A.D.F. is a small charity and has no employees. All work undertaken on our behalf, including that of our Independent Financial Examiner, is done entirely voluntarily. Unfortunately O.S.C.R. treats all registered charities the same, irrespective of their size and the manpower and resources that are available to them.
10) Due to an administration oversight, the W.A.D.F. 2009 annual return to the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (O.S.C.R.) became overdue thereby resulting in W.A.D.F. being flagged up as “SENT TO COMPLIANCE” on the O.S.C.R. website. Although this is a minor infringement and is in no way an indication of any misappropriation or malpractice, it recently prompted a thread entitled “Wick Academy Development Fund” to be started on a local internet website message board. This thread received many replies some of which contained veiled threats, defamations, misrepresentations and allegations directed at W.A.D.F. and its management committee members. When W.A.D.F. became aware of this activity, we contacted the website concerned and they took appropriate action by moderating and closing the thread and issuing a warning to future contributors to the thread. We have managed to obtain copies of the messages concerned and we have sought legal advice on this matter and this will be pursued if our advisors deem this to be necessary. There will be regular monitoring of the situation particularly now that the thread has re-opened and is currently attracting a lot of new comments....

CONTINUED IN FURTHER POSTS

[W.A.D.F. (SC032787)]

11) W.A.D.F. has brought the ongoing online message board saga to the attention of O.S.C.R. Particular reference was made to the postings which claimed that a request was sent to us for copies of documents on the 5th of July 2010 to which there has been no reply. This was as assurance against the possibility of a complaint being made to them. The regulator has been notified of these claims and the fact that this request has never actually been received by W.A.D.F.
12) W.A.D.F will without hesitation use the libel laws to protect both the charity, and its management committee members, from any threats, defamations, misrepresentations or allegations which have been made online or via any other medium.
13) In the mean time, the W.A.D.F. annual accounts which had been approved by the management committee at the 2009 A.G.M. and our O.S.C.R. annual return for 2009 were both received and signed by our Secretary before being sent to O.S.C.R. by our Independent Financial Examiner on Wednesday the 7th of July 2010.
14) Having received the relevant documents, O.S.C.R. returned the status of W.A.D.F. on their website to “ACTIVE” on the 9th of July 2010 i.e. the date that the newspaper article was published. Our annual income of £12,017 and checked annual return for the year ending 31st May 2009 were also displayed. This clearly indicated that the regulatory body had now received, processed and fully approved our annual return. Anyone interested in viewing this information can view it online at: www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexDetails.aspx?id=SC032787 (http://www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexDetails.aspx?id=SC032787)
15) Many of W.A.D.F.’s detractors are under the impression that we have just been in the business of taking money in from the public and have never assisted anyone with it. In fact, up until charitable status was achieved, i.e. at the time when we were still able to, some of our funds were used to bail out and rescue a local football club from the dire financial predicament that they had got themselves into. It is no exaggeration to say that the efforts of W.A.D.F. probably saved that football club from extinction at that time. It is quite ironic then, that so many of those who have seen fit to cause us so much annoyance over the years still have or had strong links to that particular organisation.
16) W.A.D.F. became disillusioned by the lack of effort and interest being shown towards the selling of A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets by many of those within that football club. They appeared quite content to sit back and be bank-rolled by the efforts of W.A.D.F. rather than be bothered to put in some real effort by themselves. We have no legal obligation to reveal the exact amount of money involved, but it runs to several thousand pounds and appears on our pre-charitable status accounts for that period.
17) The management committee of W.A.D.F became concerned that all the ticket income would be siphoned away and thereby leave nothing for future investment towards the proposed project. They therefore decided to apply for charitable status. In addition this would also bring about future benefits when the time came to apply for additional funding for the project. After due process charitable status was awarded to W.A.D.F. on the 14th of March 2002.
18) The gross income of W.A.D.F. up to our accounting date of the 31st of May 2009 was £260,886.34. This sum was raised almost entirely by the sale of our A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets and the investment account bank interest that was earned from that.
19) W.A.D.F. has probably sold more A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets beyond our locality than within it. Many of our regular ticket purchasers worked offshore and knew little or nothing about Wick but were still happy to buy tickets and have a flutter whilst also supporting our aims.
20) The 5 Scrabble style letter tiles drawn at the W.A.D.F. weekly lottery draws were always drawn by independent members of the public. At the outset the draws took place in a local social club and after the demise of that club, it took place in various shop and office premises around Wick. After the weekly draws had taken place, the tickets were then checked in premises which had either been rented as office space or hired on the night for just that purpose. At nearly £13,500.00 the hire of premises has been by far our main expense to date. Our detractors may wish to note that nearly 60% of this outlay was to pay for shared office space that we conveniently rented from the same local football club that we had financially assisted previously. Cost cutting measures saw our accommodation costs being reduced to just £220.00 in the last financial year as we now rely on the goodwill of management committee members for the day to day running of the charity and the housing of any assets etc, and we now only hire premises when absolutely necessary.
21) W.A.D.F. has never received any financial donations or gifts of money from any individuals, businesses or other organisations.
22) W.A.D.F has not yet reached a position whereby we can apply for additional funding but we do have an outline business plan which has been submitted to O.S.C.R. at their request.
23) The net income of W.A.D.F. i.e. the amount of cash in our bank accounts was £132,459.96 as of the 31st of May 2009. This sum easily exceeds that which was originally required as pre-funding capital for the originally planned project.
24) The W.A.D.F. funds are currently held in three bank accounts. One is an operating account and the other two are higher interest investment accounts. All outgoing transactions require to be authorised by any two from three authorised signatories. Due to the continued uncertainty and instability in the banking world, the management committee prudently decided to safeguard the assets of W.A.D.F. by transferring 50% of the accumulated funds that were held in the original higher interest investment account to a new second higher investment account in another bank.
25) W.A.D.F. fully appreciates that the money held in the Fund is fully accountable to the public under the powers and controls of O.S.C.R. but all assets of the Fund belong to W.A.D.F. and are under the jurisdiction of its constitutionally elected management committee. In spite of the misguided claims of some individuals, especially those online, no one has any right to either stake a claim to that money or to tell us, the charity’s custodians, what to do with it.
26) There has never been any misappropriation of, or so called “trousering” of, funds by any of the W.A.D.F. management committee members as has also been claimed or alleged. We take great exception to this obvious slur on our characters as things are actually quite the contrary with many personal expenses regularly being written off, and those expenses that have been claimed have only amounted to around 0.5% of our gross income to date.
27) W.A.D.F. has paid out a total of £97,650 in A-T Lucky Letters lottery jackpot and weekly £10 prizes; a figure which appears to be conveniently disregarded by those who have somehow financially projected that we should by now have in the region of £250,000 in funds sitting in a bank somewhere.

CONTINUED IN ANOTHER POST

[W.A.D.F. (SC032787)]

28) In September 2004, O.S.C.R. initiated an enquiry into the affairs of W.A.D.F. at the behest of a “concerned” member of the public. Although O.S.C.R. never disclosed the reason(s) for the enquiry being called or the identity of the individual behind it, their identity is known to us. It was however, a surprise to discover that it was a community councillor who had voiced their misguided “concerns”, but given the prior aggravation that we had received both individually and collectively from this individual and his associates, it shouldn’t have been. Two of the O.S.C.R. team travelled north in February 2005 and spent over 3 hours meeting with the W.A.D.F. management committee and our invited advisors. In January 2007, after over 28 months of dialogue, enquiries, document handover, compliance requests, etc, etc, absolutely no evidence of misconduct was found on the part of either W.A.D.F. or any of its management committee members and the enquiry was subsequently closed.
29) As a result of the enquiry, several recommendations were made and W.A.D.F. has fully complied with and implemented those to the satisfaction of O.S.C.R. although the “cloud” of being monitored will remain over us for an undetermined length of time.
30) Unfortunately, the complaint to O.S.C.R. has had a massive knock on effect. The adverse media publicity at that time and the subsequent fallout from the enquiry has caused problems with W.A.D.F. not being able to acquire the land that the charity had originally been promised. At that time we were at a delicate stage in the proceedings with both the landowner and the acting solicitors. Hopefully all our efforts won’t now be undone due to the non-availability of land on which to site a facility. Another consequence of the enquiry was that our carefully forged links with several influential people at leading companies involved in this sphere of activity, have now been damaged due to O.S.C.R. demanding information from them to facilitate their enquiry. Is this then to be viewed as a moral, or should that be an immoral, victory for that community councillor? Either way it is the people of our area who may now suffer due to the over zealous action of that egotistical individual.
31) The adverse publicity generated by the unfounded complaint has also had a detrimental effect on the sales of the W.A.D.F. “A-T Lucky Letters” lottery tickets. When the last jackpot was won in April 2009, our committee had already made the difficult decision to suspend our weekly lottery ticket sales from that time. W.A.D.F. however, reserves the right to resume the sale of these lottery tickets at any time.
32) Since its formation, W.A.D.F. has received applications for funding from local groups and organisations, both large, and small. Unfortunately, our constitution and stated objectives do not allow us to support other, often deserving, causes which fall outwith that sphere of activity. Despite allegations to the contrary, any application for funding has received the courtesy of a written reply and an explanation to this effect.
33) Copies of the W.A.D.F. accounts and constitution have always been available by application in writing to our registered address. Unfortunately, almost all requests have come from known mischief makers. For this reason a £10.00 administration fee is usually charged but this can and has been waived at our discretion. The mischief makers have complained about this charge but we are perfectly entitled to make it. Obviously, photocopying, printers, cartridges, paper, envelopes, mailing, etc, etc, all cost charities money which is conveniently forgotten by those giving us aggravation. Anyone showing a genuine interest in W.A.D.F. and its aims should find no problem in willingly paying, what is after all a donation to ensure that any incurred costs by a charitable body are minimised or ideally fully covered. Scottish charitable law does not specify a time limit but anyone who has applied in the approved manner has received the documents that they requested within a perfectly reasonable turnaround time.
34) So far, a minority of jealous individuals each with a pretty obvious personal vendetta, have succeeded in knocking W.A.D.F. off course and have somewhat hampered our progress. However they have failed to dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community. Unfortunately it would appear that some Wickers are so self-centred that they would rather that the wider populace gain nothing as long as their personal axes are ground. If trying to do something for a community that is as deprived and underprivileged as ours is a crime, then W.A.D.F. and its management committee are indeed culpable and guilty as charged.
35) The motto of W.A.D.F. is “Working For The Benefit Of The Community”; perhaps we should now change this to “Still Trying To Work For The Benefit Of The Community”. Seriously though, let’s hope that common sense prevails for the common good and that the community gets fully behind us and our efforts. Then maybe one day they will all benefit from the work that we have put in so far.
36) W.A.D.F. would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone, both near and afar, for the tremendous financial support that they have given to us so far through the purchase of A-T lucky Letters tickets. We had hoped that our project would have been much further ahead of its present position than it is, but we did not envisage that so many “man-made” obstacles would be encountered on route.
37) People involved with developments and projects in other areas have applauded W.A.D.F. for their efforts and are quite astonished when they learn of what W.A.D.F have had to overcome whilst trying to do something positive and good for this area.
38) After this open and frank letter, W.A.D.F. now hopes that the journey will get a little easier. The people that we know we are up against have done a lot of damage so far and won’t thank us for our revelations but we hope that we can regain the all important respect, trust and support of the public that we require and desire.

Andrew J. Carter,
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund (SC 032787)
16 Thurso Street
Wick
KW1 5LF

[Crackeday]

"We have managed to obtain copies of the messages concerned and we have sought legal advice on this matter and this will be pursued if our advisors deem this to be necessary. There will be regular monitoring of the situation particularly now that the thread has re-opened and is currently attracting a lot of new comments...."
I notice that you were quick enough to stop the public asking questions but not so quick at providing the information that the "public" requested?
Maybe I am wrong and I will hold my hands up if I am but where is the information that the public requested? Where is the money? How much is there? When (if ever) will we see the finished article? When can we see the accounts?
Too many questions not enough answers maybe we (the public) should seek legal advice as quickly as you have? And by the way who is paying for your "legal advice" is it coming out of the fund??????

[Tubthumper]

Documents have arrived: All that was asked for, and in line with the statements made above by the WADF secretary.

I have no scanner available, wait one while I type out the most interesting & relevant parts.

And as I said in an earlier post, I'm happy that the information has arrived and the WADF have come out and stated their case.

[Phill]

Well that makes a lot of sense.
Good to hear from the WADF itself, some interesting points.

However I do think it is prudent in this day and age when dealing with public / charitable funds, a regular and open communication to the public works wonders.
In this specific case the NOSN appear to have let you down in your reply.

I am more than happy to donate a domain, web hosting, maintenance basic website design and regular updating of a website for the WADF so further updates can be available to all, and this may help dissuade further mischief makers.

[Tubthumper]

It's just dawned on me, although seeking the information contained in the documents was the aim, if I scan and put them on here, they are in the public domain and that may not be acceptable to WADF - can their representative confirm (either by pm to me or by posting here) that putting the entire document on here is acceptable please?

I'll assume that posting the cash balance, income & expenditure/ surplus, committee members, remuneration and some information which I think is key to our interest will be acceptable, considering that the previous posts seek to exonerate the WADF committee.

Audited accounts from May 2010
Year to 31/5//09
Income £10686.64
Payments: £8381.33
Surplus for year 2305.31

Cash balance £132,719.96

Management Report
Committee
Chairman – Jacky Gunn
Vice Chairman – William More
Secretary – Andrew Carter
Treasurer – William Wydmuch
Executive Officer – Allan Wares

“Jacky Gunn received reimbursement of £487.86 in respect of expenses regarding collection of tickets. No other person received expenses.”

Financial Statement
"In respect of accounts the reserves are very healthy. However these reserves are necessary for work that requires to be carried out in establishing the Development Fund's current aim to both raise sufficient money to fund a feasibility study into the building of a purpose built leisure facility and also to retain sufficient funds to prime pump other sources of capital aid."

Principal Activities
"The principal activity of the fund during the period was fundraising through the sale of weekly Lucky Letter tickets.

The Development Fund’s aim was to both raise sufficient money to fund a feasibility study into the building of a purpose built leisure facility and also to retain sufficient funds or assets to prime pump other sources of capital aid.

Any such leisure facility was dependent on the obtaining of a suitable site in Wick or its environs. A suitable site was provisionally offered in Wick but after the adverse publicity generated by a spurious enquiry by OSCR into the running of the Development Fund it was subsequently withdrawn without explanation.

The ongoing fallout from the OSCR enquiry, together with increased competition and the economic climate, has resulted in a reduction in ticket sales which resulted in a corresponding increase in the time it would take to achieve the fund’s principal objective. As a result, the fund vacated office premises the previous year and this year ceased further sales of lottery tickets after payment of the final jackpot prize on 28 April 2009.

In view of the recent announcement of a new High School being promised for Wick, the management committee are awaiting sight of plans to see whether it will now be feasible to use the existing funds to provide a facility within the terms of its principal objective within or adjacent to that building. In the event of there not being significant progress in the following year they will consider distributing the assets of the Fund to other objectives contained within the parameters of its constitution."

From Constitution Issue 3 (Revised 6th May 2010)
4. Membership
”Membership is open to any individual aged 18 or over who actively supports the aims & objects of the Fund and to any group or body which actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund.

The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or to terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by the management committee before its decision is made. The management committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual membership subscription and its period of implementation.”

[Tubthumper]

So we (finally) got the information we sought. And there are answers to the queries that were put. The bank balance is healthy, there is a plan for carrying the fund forward.

As I said in a post earlier on, Wickers should THANK the committee for raising the funds and be GLAD that money has been raised on their behalf. We would HATE for another scandal involving charity funds.

On a personal note (as I said I would do) I would personally like to apologise for bringing the reputations of the committee into disrepute, and specifically (while the frustration was particularly hard to bear) for calling the committee ‘Charlatans’. There is a satisfied smile upon my face that the information is known, and that no shenanigans have taken place.

Although I will point out that the progress of this thread has gone a long way to finally bringing the work that the WADF committee has done, on behalf of the Wick community, to the attention of the public, in a way that the committee themselves have not hitherto managed. For that I have no apology.

[Droopy]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow, more so because like everyone else on here we can sit in our sitting rooms and 'nose' behind the anomimity of the internet.

Peoples identity has been insinuated and broadcast on here with no right to reply. I find this rather disturbing, the fact that its guilty until proven innocent. Its modern day Kangaroo court.

Is it any wonder professional bodies act with discretion and integrity when investigating complaints, and only publish the findings once all the facts and figures have been investigated.....its called civil society, this has been an internet witchhunt

There are indeed personal axes to grind and from what I can see only one contributer to this post (apart from W.A.D.F.) has had the courage so far to post under his own name. He may have been questioning the motives of W.A.D.F. but hes a 100 times any other man/woman for it.

We've probably not heard the end of this and who knows whos right or wrong but for all those who seek the truth, or are 'concerned'......... show genuine concern..... by not hiding away in cyberland.

[jimbews]

behind the anomimity of the internet.
. . .
Peoples identity has been insinuated and broadcast on here with no right to reply.

If anything libellous has been said I think you would find that the ORG is not anonymous.
See "Blocked email domains" statement at:
http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=542394&postcount=1
I'm sure that a court order would force the ORG to hand over the (traceable) email address of any member.

And surely there is a right of reply: in fact W.A.D.F. have just made use of it.

[Tubthumper]

I will however point out that I DID send a letter to the WADF on 5th July 2010, requesting documents.

[John Little]

I have not said much of anythin on this thread because it is a matter local to Wick and I do not consider that I have the right to poke my snitch in matters not linked to me.

However, on a broader front I would like to point out that we live in a (theoretically) open democracy where people may be called to account for what they have done in the public's name. It does not matter whether that is done in a council chamber, an elected committee or the local club organisation.

That being so I have to say that personally I cannot regard the unfolding nature of this thread as anything like a witch-hunt, for in that situation there is no true accountability and no opportunity to reply.

To me this is and has been a robust and completely healthy example of local democracy in action - on all sides now- and I applaud it enthusiastically. Something which was festering and causing bad feeling has been well and truly lanced and can now heal.

Good stuff.

[Tubthumper]

Can I just ask one little question regarding items 15-17 post #2 (where the WADF committee bailed out a local football team that was in danger of extinction).
Who were on the committee of the club at that time?

[Happy Guy]

I have not said much of anythin on this thread because it is a matter local to Wick and I do not consider that I have the right to poke my snitch in matters not linked to me.

However, on a broader front I would like to point out that we live in a (theoretically) open democracy where people may be called to account for what they have done in the public's name. It does not matter whether that is done in a council chamber, an elected committee or the local club organisation.

That being so I have to say that personally I cannot regard the unfolding nature of this thread as anything like a witch-hunt, for in that situation there is no true accountability and no opportunity to reply.

To me this is and has been a robust and completely healthy example of local democracy in action - on all sides now- and I applaud it enthusiastically. Something which was festering and causing bad feeling has been well and truly lanced and can now heal.

Good stuff.
HERE HERE! Well said John Little

[cuddlepop]

HERE HERE! Well said John Little


I'll second that and ask why "they" took so long to respond to a request,:confused:confused

[pegasus]

28) In September 2004, O.S.C.R. initiated an enquiry into the affairs of W.A.D.F. at the behest of a “concerned” member of the public. Although O.S.C.R. never disclosed the reason(s) for the enquiry being called or the identity of the individual behind it, their identity is known to us. It was however, a surprise to discover that it was a community councillor who had voiced their misguided “concerns”, but given the prior aggravation that we had received both individually and collectively from this individual and his associates, it shouldn’t have been. Two of the O.S.C.R. team travelled north in February 2005 and spent over 3 hours meeting with the W.A.D.F. management committee and our invited advisors. In January 2007, after over 28 months of dialogue, enquiries, document handover, compliance requests, etc, etc, absolutely no evidence of misconduct was found on the part of either W.A.D.F. or any of its management committee members and the enquiry was subsequently closed.
29) As a result of the enquiry, several recommendations were made and W.A.D.F. has fully complied with and implemented those to the satisfaction of O.S.C.R. although the “cloud” of being monitored will remain over us for an undetermined length of time.
30) Unfortunately, the complaint to O.S.C.R. has had a massive knock on effect. The adverse media publicity at that time and the subsequent fallout from the enquiry has caused problems with W.A.D.F. not being able to acquire the land that the charity had originally been promised. At that time we were at a delicate stage in the proceedings with both the landowner and the acting solicitors. Hopefully all our efforts won’t now be undone due to the non-availability of land on which to site a facility. Another consequence of the enquiry was that our carefully forged links with several influential people at leading companies involved in this sphere of activity, have now been damaged due to O.S.C.R. demanding information from them to facilitate their enquiry. Is this then to be viewed as a moral, or should that be an immoral, victory for that community councillor? Either way it is the people of our area who may now suffer due to the over zealous action of that egotistical individual.
31) The adverse publicity generated by the unfounded complaint has also had a detrimental effect on the sales of the W.A.D.F. “A-T Lucky Letters” lottery tickets. When the last jackpot was won in April 2009, our committee had already made the difficult decision to suspend our weekly lottery ticket sales from that time. W.A.D.F. however, reserves the right to resume the sale of these lottery tickets at any time.
32) Since its formation, W.A.D.F. has received applications for funding from local groups and organisations, both large, and small. Unfortunately, our constitution and stated objectives do not allow us to support other, often deserving, causes which fall outwith that sphere of activity. Despite allegations to the contrary, any application for funding has received the courtesy of a written reply and an explanation to this effect.
33) Copies of the W.A.D.F. accounts and constitution have always been available by application in writing to our registered address. Unfortunately, almost all requests have come from known mischief makers. For this reason a £10.00 administration fee is usually charged but this can and has been waived at our discretion. The mischief makers have complained about this charge but we are perfectly entitled to make it. Obviously, photocopying, printers, cartridges, paper, envelopes, mailing, etc, etc, all cost charities money which is conveniently forgotten by those giving us aggravation. Anyone showing a genuine interest in W.A.D.F. and its aims should find no problem in willingly paying, what is after all a donation to ensure that any incurred costs by a charitable body are minimised or ideally fully covered. Scottish charitable law does not specify a time limit but anyone who has applied in the approved manner has received the documents that they requested within a perfectly reasonable turnaround time.
34) So far, a minority of jealous individuals each with a pretty obvious personal vendetta, have succeeded in knocking W.A.D.F. off course and have somewhat hampered our progress. However they have failed to dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community. Unfortunately it would appear that some Wickers are so self-centred that they would rather that the wider populace gain nothing as long as their personal axes are ground. If trying to do something for a community that is as deprived and underprivileged as ours is a crime, then W.A.D.F. and its management committee are indeed culpable and guilty as charged.
35) The motto of W.A.D.F. is “Working For The Benefit Of The Community”; perhaps we should now change this to “Still Trying To Work For The Benefit Of The Community”. Seriously though, let’s hope that common sense prevails for the common good and that the community gets fully behind us and our efforts. Then maybe one day they will all benefit from the work that we have put in so far.
36) W.A.D.F. would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone, both near and afar, for the tremendous financial support that they have given to us so far through the purchase of A-T lucky Letters tickets. We had hoped that our project would have been much further ahead of its present position than it is, but we did not envisage that so many “man-made” obstacles would be encountered on route.
37) People involved with developments and projects in other areas have applauded W.A.D.F. for their efforts and are quite astonished when they learn of what W.A.D.F have had to overcome whilst trying to do something positive and good for this area.
38) After this open and frank letter, W.A.D.F. now hopes that the journey will get a little easier. The people that we know we are up against have done a lot of damage so far and won’t thank us for our revelations but we hope that we can regain the all important respect, trust and support of the public that we require and desire.

Andrew J. Carter,
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund (SC 032787)
16 Thurso Street
Wick
KW1 5LF

you said "dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community," but just what have you deliverede to the comunity after 10 years and having taken well over a quarter of a milion pounds?

why is the field unavaliable? why has is taken 10 years to reach 'delicate' negotaitiosn?

when and where i sthe 2010 AGM?

why do y9ou keep saying that people who quesitopn you are 'vindictive' and that you 'knows who they are'?!

why are you constantly theratening legal action rather than just providfing simplke details? get on with it if you wants to take legal action.

why did renting a room once a week for a lotery draw cost £13,500 ? how come it suddeninly isnt necesary now?

for such massive (3) posts, you seem to have said nothing but made a few threats and starnge claioms.

[pegasus]

sorry to be one of "those giving us aggravation" but do yu have a list of names and adresses of the lottery draw winners over the years?

[Tubthumper]

With the 'libel' laws firmly in my mind, I just want to clarify a few facts. After all, debate and discussion are permissible in civil society, and it's always good to query what someone presents angrily as 'facts'.

15) ...up until charitable status was achieved, i.e. at the time when we were still able to, some of our funds were used to bail out and rescue a local football club from the dire financial predicament that they had got themselves into. It is no exaggeration to say that the efforts of W.A.D.F. probably saved that football club from extinction at that time.
And the Chairman and Secretary of the club (which was threatened with extinction, and was sorely lacking funds (see previous post) were Jacky Gunn and Andrew Carter (returned unopposed in 2002)!
It seems ironic that you raised funds in the club's name, restricted access to them for same club (which you led) and which you say so desparately needed money. How would it have looked if the club HAD become extinct due to lack of cash, while a substantial pot of cash had been raised for it?

It is quite ironic then, that so many of those who have seen fit to cause us so much annoyance over the years still have or had strong links to that particular organisation.
Perhaps they were quite entitled to be annoyed with those involved, for raising a lot of money using the club's name, while in executive positions of the club, then refusing to allow the club access to that money.

16) W.A.D.F. became disillusioned by the lack of effort and interest being shown towards the selling of A-T Lucky Letters lottery tickets by many of those within that football club. They appeared quite content to sit back and be bank-rolled by the efforts of W.A.D.F. rather than be bothered to put in some real effort by themselves.
But YOU were chairman & secretary, YOU refused to let others join the fund or know how much was in it and YOU were supposed to be in charge of the club. Is it any surprise people got disillusioned?

17) The management committee of W.A.D.F [led by the chairman and Secretary of WAFC] became concerned that all the ticket income would be siphoned away [presumably by Developing Wick Academy FC] and thereby leave nothing for future investment towards the proposed project [Which, I am sure, was primarily concerned with building a stadium complex for the local Highland League Football Team, as both of the main movers of the DF were in executive positions with the FC]. They therefore decided to apply for charitable status. In addition this would also bring about future benefits when the time came to apply for additional funding for the project. After due process charitable status was awarded to W.A.D.F. on the 14th of March 2002 [While Mr Gunn and Mr Carter were still Chairman & Secretary of the football club of the same name, which was in dire straits, for which many people thought they'd bought tickets to help build a stadium complex for, which was 'under threat of extinction', and in need of financial help].

I don't get it.:confused

[DeHaviLand]

You're not supposed to "get it" Tubs. You're just supposed to accept this version of events as Gospel, and drop what interest you have in the running of WADF. Now be a good boy, and run along. Nothing to see here. Can anyone tell me where the 'irony' smiley is please?:confused

[lynne duncan]

just imagine WADF if you had had the decency to publish the required informaton in the first place how much of this thread would not have been required, you are a public domain as is anyone who takes public money to fund anything for the public's benefit, and it is shameful that you threaten people with legal action.

the folk of wick have had the rug pulled out from them enough with the debacle of the gala money,
I'm all for supporting the townspeople efforts to raise monies to benefit the town, heaven knows we'll need to continue doing so in the current financial climate.

you want what we want - something to benefit the town - just stop being old brigade (working behind closed doors) and allow new blood in to help you.

[cuddlepop]

If its decided that an "all singing and dancing" Community School is built in Caithness, will there be any need for another sporting facility and if not what happens to the money that has been raised?

[Tubthumper]

What will happen to the money if its decided that because the new "community school" will have all the required sporting activities available there then?.:confused
The WADF have said they will work with the developers in partnership, and consider combining their money with other funds. Which is sensible and a great idea. After all £135 000 won't go far for a complex, and there would have had to be matching funding combined in for a complex anyway.
They said that in their annual report, I'm sure I posted the relevant bit earlier. Good for them, say I!:)

[cuddlepop]

The WADF have said they will work with the developers in partnership, and consider combining their money with other funds. Which is sensible and a great idea. After all £135 000 won't go far for a complex, and there would have had to be matching funding combined in for a complex anyway.
They said that in their annual report, I'm sure I posted the relevant bit earlier. Good for them, say I!:)

You probably did,its me not reading everything properly.

Wouldnt it be better to ask if the locals who raised the money if they wanted it to be part of a Highland Council funded new build.

£135 000 would give the kids a new park as long as land was available.:)

[Phill]

£135 000 would give the kids a new park as long as land was available.

£135k could kick start bigger things.

Maybe if the WADF had been a bit more open and up front they wouldn't have lost the public's confidence and would have been able to carry on selling the lottery tickets and raising more funds, that may have made the £135k £150k by now.

Maybe, just maybe, a bit more interaction with the public about what going on could see the WADF better supported and helped to further achieve it's aims (get selling lottery tickets again).

My offer of a website is a serious one. I would think Bill / Niall Fernie could find a bit of space on the .org. Even a sticky thread on here would help.

A bit more transparency and interaction and you never know, maybe some land could be found (or offer reinstated).

A more public campaign may bring help from those more experienced in raising funds professionally i.e. like lottery funding, Sports councils, EU grants and the like (I'm not knocking what has been done already or the efforts of the WADF so far but there are people who know a lot more about finding funding).

[Alice in Blunderland]

5) Since that date, W.A.D.F. has been trying to quietly and conscientiously go about its business raising funds towards achieving its aim. This quietness has often been misconstrued by our detractors as secrecy. For some reason, what we have achieved or haven’t achieved, depending on your viewpoint, knowledge and level of expectation, has irked a few people who have then gone out of their way to try and make our lives as difficult as possible.


I would like to comment on this section.

I feel that if a charity trying to raise money for a set goal wants to achieve this, would it not be best to get out their and get yourselves known to as many as possible be as loud as possible ?

Attract publicity of the right kind so that many know what you are trying to achieve and can support it.

You have fallen foul of being accused of secrecy before so why not address this by being as open as you can. Many organisations use this same media ( Caithness.org ) to let many know what they are up too for free. Interact more with the public.

Quietly going about your business has indeed had a negative affect on your operations and this is not all the fault of mischief makers or irked people.

Charitable organisations need as much publicity and attention of a positive kind as possible to help rake in the money.

Now is the time to step back and take a good hard look at how this should proceed and gain back the confidence which many seem to have lost in this organisation.

The only losers are the people of Wick who still do not seem to be anywhere near what your initial 'goal' was.


You are hoping that the journey will now become a little easier, it can only become easier when the driver at the wheel of this organisation takes on the complaints of the passengers, listens and changes how he is driving to make the journey better for all. :)

[pat]

Now this committee have opened up when are they going to hold OPEN meetings, when and where are the AGM or EGM being held?
I am sure there will be lots of folk interested in now being able to find out what is going to happen to the money so far raised - this committe must remember it is not their money to do as THEY wish. This money has been donated to benefit the Public of Wick and areas.
Why has it taken this 'committee' so long to answer - if they had been open and above board in the first place NOBODY would be having to ask questions.
The committee appear to still be extremely arrogant in their attitude to their 'GIVING PUBLIC' by their statements here on Caithness.org - how many of the 'Giving Public' will now donate to a charity which appears extremely relucant to be open and crystal clear in their operation, then appears annoyed at folk when the 'Giving Public' ask pertinent and relevant questions about their operation and to know how the money has been spent and what plans are ongoing for this Fund.
I believe an end must come now to this Fund, the money already donated should be amalgamated with one/some of the other charities seeking to improve facilities in Caithness or divided amongst several projects - I believe the chances of this charity raising more money now is extremely limited, wind up before all the money is spent on administration and travelling costs.

[Alice in Blunderland]

The aim of W.A.D.F. was, and still is, is to provide a much needed sports and leisure and recreation facility for the people of Wick and East Caithness. For phase 1, we envisaged a grass sports pitch and a five hundred seat grandstand incorporating, changing, fitness, leisure and conference facilities with ample associated car parking. Given the background of our management committee, this would unashamedly be aimed at the local football fraternity, although various other grass based sports could readily be accommodated. Additional phases of the proposed development were to incorporate various athletics facilities including a running track; a two-thirds sized football pitch indoor training facility along the lines of those already in use in Scandinavian countries sharing our inclement climate; and an arts performance facility. The area of land that we had been offered would have enabled us to easily incorporate all of these facilities.

You have already stated that you have pulled away from Wick Academy over concerns of syphoning money to this group but would it not be an idea to see if you can settle your differences and work with them again. They already have a site with parking which could be jointly developed further. They also have a massive support from the people of Wick and East Caithness and lots of good publicity. :)

[Alice in Blunderland]

The aim of W.A.D.F. was, and still is, is to provide a much needed sports and leisure and recreation facility for the people of Wick and East Caithness. For phase 1, we envisaged a grass sports pitch and a five hundred seat grandstand incorporating, changing, fitness, leisure and conference facilities with ample associated car parking. Given the background of our management committee, this would unashamedly be aimed at the local football fraternity, although various other grass based sports could readily be accommodated. Additional phases of the proposed development were to incorporate various athletics facilities including a running track; a two-thirds sized football pitch indoor training facility along the lines of those already in use in Scandinavian countries sharing our inclement climate; and an arts performance facility. The area of land that we had been offered would have enabled us to easily incorporate all of these facilities.

On the other hand if you look at the proposals for the new High School you will note that a running track and sports facilities and most of the other facilities in your statement are being incorporated into this site. Wick deserves the best possible facility and an approach to Highland Council or any of the local councillors would be no doubt welcomed by your organisation. There is no point in two bodies working separately towards the same goal.

When W.A.D.F. set up there was no prospect of Wick possibly ever receiving these facilities however times have changed and it looks like this very facility in time will now be getting built by Highland Council as part of the High School development. :)

Just a suggestion not mischief making

[Alice in Blunderland]

W.A.D.F. is a small charity and has no employees. All work undertaken on our behalf, including that of our Independent Financial Examiner, is done entirely voluntarily. Unfortunately O.S.C.R. treats all registered charities the same, irrespective of their size and the manpower and resources that are available to them.

No fortunately, all organisations are and should be treated equally regardless of size, manpower and resources.

This ensures that all organisations know where they stand and what is expected from them.:)

[Corrie 3]

I believe the chances of this charity raising more money now is extremely limited, wind up before all the money is spent on administration and travelling costs.
I agree Pat, I think the chances of anyone giving any money in the future is zero.!!!!!...Once bitten, twice shy comes to mind....:(:(

[Blarney]

At nearly £13,500.00 the hire of premises has been by far our main expense to date. Our detractors may wish to note that nearly 60% of this outlay was to pay for shared office space that we conveniently rented from the same local football club that we had financially assisted previously. Cost cutting measures saw our accommodation costs being reduced to just £220.00 in the last financial year as we now rely on the goodwill of management committee members for the day to day running of the charity and the housing of any assets etc, and we now only hire premises when absolutely necessary.:confused

I would suggest that the cost cutting measures should have been implemented sooner before they scandalously wasted such a huge sum of public money.........................

[Happy Guy]

At nearly £13,500.00 the hire of premises has been by far our main expense to date. Our detractors may wish to note that nearly 60% of this outlay was to pay for shared office space that we conveniently rented from the same local football club that we had financially assisted previously. Cost cutting measures saw our accommodation costs being reduced to just £220.00 in the last financial year as we now rely on the goodwill of management committee members for the day to day running of the charity and the housing of any assets etc, and we now only hire premises when absolutely necessary.:confused

I would suggest that the cost cutting measures should have been implemented sooner before they scandalously wasted such a huge sum of public money.........................
Unless I have missed something, the charity has not recently held any public meetings, and the committee is small in number, so I cannot see why there could EVER have been a need to HIRE accommodation or rooms?

[Alice in Blunderland]

All the talk of solicitors and action seems to have had an affect ! :(

I do hope that some of the helpful suggestions made by interested people will be taken on board so that things can move forward.....................

However I agree with Pat and possibly things will never be able to move on unless there is a big change. :)

Lack of public confidence rightly or wrongly will not help any charitable organisation improve its bank balance.

[pat]

Anyone found out yet when a general meeting of some type is to be held - it is meant to be advertised in the local press for all to see and be able to attend such meeting but I have not found any sign of one having been advertised for a very long time, so one should be scheduled very soon.

[Wario]

25) W.A.D.F. fully appreciates that the money held in the Fund is fully accountable to the public under the powers and controls of O.S.C.R. but all assets of the Fund belong to W.A.D.F. and are under the jurisdiction of its constitutionally elected management committee. In spite of the misguided claims of some individuals, especially those online, no one has any right to either stake a claim to that money or to tell us, the charity’s custodians, what to do with it.

Pat, I am afraid there will be no open meeting arranged by the famous five running this chaity. I doubt they have ever had any public meetings before and it is quite clear from the quote above that no one is going to tell them what to do.

The only opportunity is to apply to Mr Carter for membership. When you consider that they have a history of losing members I am not confident of your chances.

Perhaps this is the way forward. A dozen upstanding pillars of the community(can we find those from org members?) apply for membership and we can see what response they get!

[pegasus]

you said "dampen our enthusiasm and desire, and more importantly, to stop us from delivering something worthwhile to the community," but just what have you deliverede to the comunity after 10 years and having taken well over a quarter of a milion pounds?

why is the field unavaliable? why has is taken 10 years to reach 'delicate' negotaitiosn?

when and where i sthe 2010 AGM?

why do y9ou keep saying that people who quesitopn you are 'vindictive' and that you 'knows who they are'?!

why are you constantly theratening legal action rather than just providfing simplke details? get on with it if you wants to take legal action.

why did renting a room once a week for a lotery draw cost £13,500 ? how come it suddeninly isnt necesary now?

for such massive (3) posts, you seem to have said nothing but made a few threats and starnge claioms.

mr carter you have had almost 4 days to anwser these and otherquestions. but you have answered not 1.

what is the problem?

[pat]

am asking OSCR about the legality of not advertising an AGM or EGM.

If the present committe have been holding AGMs or EGMs why are the public not allowed to know about these meetings or be able to attend - pretty sure this is completely against all OSCRs guidelines .

Does anyone know if any AGM or EGM has been held?

Wonder what the answer will be when OSCR reply to my questions. At least I know OSCR will answer my questions and OSCR have open lines of communication and information, not trying to hide behind a committee who tries to mislead and make vague threatening inuendos to anyone asking for information this committee does not appear to want to openly give..

[Alice in Blunderland]

11) W.A.D.F. has brought the ongoing online message board saga to the attention of O.S.C.R. Particular reference was made to the postings which claimed that a request was sent to us for copies of documents on the 5th of July 2010 to which there has been no reply. This was as assurance against the possibility of a complaint being made to them. The regulator has been notified of these claims and the fact that this request has never actually been received by W.A.D.F.


This means nothing as its your word against there's however drawing OSCRS attention to this thread has been a good action I would say and I am sure they would have already had it drawn to their attention for various reasons.


12) W.A.D.F will without hesitation use the libel laws to protect both the charity, and its management committee members, from any threats, defamations, misrepresentations or allegations which have been made online or via any other medium.

Its a shame you have felt this necessary as a simple step of being more open and communicative with the public would have been suffice.

[pegasus]

Its a shame you have felt this necessary as a simple step of being more open and communicative with the public would have been suffice.

there wont be any legal action. they havent got a leg to stand on.

and interested parties would thane be enttiled to know who was paying the legal bill: the comottee members personally or the fund

[Alice in Blunderland]

there wont be any legal action. they havent got a leg to stand on.



True but the threat is enough to frighten some people away from asking questions or talking tough to at least goad them into a reply. I notice the reply only came forth once the accusations started flying. Simple questions get the silent treatment. :confused Tough talking from an organisation to members of the worried public.

If every councillor in the county threatened the same action for all the statements I have seen on the org there would be a queue of solicitors lining up to have a full time job. :Razz

[pegasus]

True but the threat is enough to frighten some people away from asking questions or talking tough to at least goad them into a reply. I notice the reply only came forth once the accusations started flying. Simple questions get the silent treatment. :confused Tough talking from an organisation to members of the worried public.


Yes. But if there is any action it should come from the local people. moneyt was suppliedfor a particular purpose and in good faith. at this point a contract has been created.consaideration (money) has been suplied by members of the public and a consideration (facilities/amenities) has been promised to those members of the publicv by the people who have been constantly and deliberately taking the money supplied to them over a very long period of tim e.

if 2 or more suppliers of money to this fund get together they could sue wadf and the members of the commitee for breach of contract and the court could order the return of the moneyu to the local people or appoint a trustee to administer the fund for the benefit of the local people

any missing moneyu could be recouped from the indivaul members of the seemingley secret society: gunn, carter and the rest, so long as they were mentioned by name in the inital legal action.

this is my understanding of the matter. Gunn, acrter and co could call the AGM or an egm and explain to the public why they have so far failed to honouyr there side of the contract in order to avert this legal action

the local poeple shouild take the initative. forget Carter's threats; thats all hot air

[Alice in Blunderland]

the local poeple shouild take the initative.


From what some of the posters have been posting it looks like quite a few already have. :) Not all of them local.

[Tubthumper]

£135k could kick start bigger things.

Maybe if the WADF had been a bit more open and up front they wouldn't have lost the public's confidence and would have been able to carry on selling the lottery tickets and raising more funds, that may have made the £135k £150k by now.

Maybe, just maybe, a bit more interaction with the public about what going on could see the WADF better supported and helped to further achieve it's aims (get selling lottery tickets again).

My offer of a website is a serious one. I would think Bill / Niall Fernie could find a bit of space on the .org. Even a sticky thread on here would help.

A bit more transparency and interaction and you never know, maybe some land could be found (or offer reinstated).

A more public campaign may bring help from those more experienced in raising funds professionally i.e. like lottery funding, Sports councils, EU grants and the like (I'm not knocking what has been done already or the efforts of the WADF so far but there are people who know a lot more about finding funding).
Perhaps a couple of fresh people on the committee? But that would need a few fresh members of the WADF overall.

No point in me applying, I suspect I have too much 'mischief-making' potential I suppose. But anyone else fancy helping steer the fund, at a crucial point where either rebranding and relaunching it, or looking at options for partnerships is on the agenda. For your community?

[Tubthumper]

... it can only become easier when the driver at the wheel of this organisation takes on the complaints of the passengers, listens and changes how he is driving to make the journey better for all. :)
Or perhaps a new driver is found?

[Tubthumper]

"The Fund shall hold each year an annual general meeting which shall be held within 15 months of the previous annual general meeting to:


Approve the minutes of the previous meeting;
Receive the annual report from the chairman;
Adopt the annual accounts;
Elect the honorary officers and ordinary committee members;
Appoint an independent examiner or auditor, as appropriate for the accounts;
Deal with any other competent business."

So we have to establish when the next AGM is (or when the last AGM was).

"An extraordinary general meeting shall be called by an application in writing to the secretary either supported by at least six members of the fund or received from the management committee, stating the business to be transacted at the meeting."

And we need to establish how many members there are, how many applications to join there have been, and (so we can make the appropriate representations for ourselves) the reasons any rejections were based on.

And then those of us who are really interested in the well-being of the Wick community will apply to join, by applying in writing to the Secretary.:)

'Working On Behalf Of The Community'

[Alice in Blunderland]

"The Fund shall hold each year an annual general meeting which shall be held within 15 months of the previous annual general meeting to:


Approve the minutes of the previous meeting;
Receive the annual report from the chairman;
Adopt the annual accounts;
Elect the honorary oficers and ordinary committee members;
Appoint an independent examiner or auditor, as appropriate for the accounts;
Deal with any other competent business."

So we have to establish when the next AGM is (or when the last AGM was).

"An extraordinary general meeting shall be called by an application in writing to the secretary either supported by at least six members of the fund or received from the management committee, stating the business to be transacted at the meeting."

And we need to establish how many members there are, how many applications to join there have been, and (so we can make the appropriate representations for ourselves) the reasons any rejections were based on.

And then those of us who are really interested in the well-being of the Wick community will apply to join, by applying in writing to the Secretary.

'Working On Behalf Of The Community'

I dont need a crystal ball to tell you your chances of getting onto the committee. [lol] Even if your application was written on £100 notes. ;)

They would keep your application and send you your refusal on ordinary paper recorded delivery of course. [lol]


Now for the small print................................

edit :this reply was written without prejudice just in case !!

[Tubthumper]

"9. Voting and Quorum
With the exception of changes to the constitution and dissolution of the fund, decisions put to a vote shall be resolved by a simple majority; the chair of the meeting shall hold a casting vote to be used where there has been an equality of votes cast.
The quorum at annual general meetings shall be five; the quorum at management committee meetings shall be three or such number as the committee may from time to time determine"

And from the Financial Statement:
Committee Members: Vacancies

So let me get this straight:


There are currently only 5 Fund members, and they are all having to act as office bearers due to the lack of any other members
The 5 members of the Committee have the power to select or reject any application for membership of the Fund
The Fund's membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee) elect the office bearers from within the membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)
The minutes of the meetings are circulated to all members of the Fund (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)
No announcement is needed for the AGM, as the 5 members who are entitled to attend and vote are all on the committee (with the power to select or reject additional membership applications, and who exclusively see the the minutes of meetings where such applications were considered)
6 members are required to call an EGM
And 6 members are required to change the constitution!

It's a pity there are not more interested people getting involved. All charities have the same problem, not enough people to help shoulder the burden. Come on folks. lets all join and help them out! :confused

[Tubthumper]

"12. Changes to the Constitution
Any change to the constitution shall require a two thirds majority of those members present and voting at a general meeting called to consider such a motion. No change shall be made which would have the effect of causing the fund to cease to be recognised by the Inland Revenue as a charity. Proposed changes to the constitution must be proposed by the management committee or six members of the Fund in writing to the Secretary"
13. Dissolution
Dissolution of the fund shall require a two thirds majority of those members present and voting at a general meeting called to consider such a motion.
In the event of the dissolution of the fund any assets remaining shall not be distributed among the members of the fund but shall be given to such other Caithness charity or charities, with similar aims and objects as the members of the Fund by a simple majority shall determine."

[Tubthumper]

You have already stated that you have pulled away from Wick Academy over concerns of syphoning money to this group but would it not be an idea to see if you can settle your differences and work with them again. They already have a site with parking which could be jointly developed further. They also have a massive support from the people of Wick and East Caithness and lots of good publicity. :)
That is eminently sensible road in my view. It's (apparently) what the fund was originally set up to do.

Getting to a position where old arguments are put to bed is one of the reasons for having lots of new members, and a bigger 'pool' to select office bearers from. Tired people can hand over the reins and take a rest, and all the old animosity can be forgotten about.

And to clarify another of the somewhat spluttering assertions made by the WADF Secretary in his post #2 on ownership of 'their money', the membership of the Fund decide the fate of the funds it has collected and stored on the public's behalf. And some kind of restriction on membership could be viewed as slightly strange; almost as strange as something like, let's say, inappropriate behaviour by a trustee being tolerated by a charity committee or the Regulator. :)

[Alice in Blunderland]

That is eminently sensible road in my view. It's (apparently) what the fund was originally set up to do.

:)

That's what I thought as well.

The fund bears the name of the football team and if they were originally set up to help the football team then maybe its time to forgive, forget and move forward for the benefit of the public,many of whom are still buying the football teams tickets. :)

[Alice in Blunderland]

There are currently only 5 Fund members, and they are all having to act as office bearers due to the lack of any other members
The 5 members of the Committee have the power to select or reject any application for membership of the Fund
The Fund's membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee) elect the office bearers from within the membership (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)
The minutes of the meetings are circulated to all members of the Fund (ie the 5 members comprising the committee)
No announcement is needed for the AGM, as the 5 members who are entitled to attend and vote are all on the committee (with the power to select or reject additional membership applications, and who exclusively see the the minutes of meetings where such applications were considered)
6 members are required to call an EGM
And 6 members are required to change the constitution!


Let me see .............................if you have got this right then a blind man can see this set up looks very bad and very heavily weighted to keeping this funds committee a closed group. I would hazard a guess that this constitution was drawn up after the big fall out !:roll:

[pat]

What would happen if any/some of them became incapacitated and were no longer able to take part in " the committee" meetings?

There appears as if there is no mention of having to have a quorum attending before they hold a meeting - extremely strange form for any committee.

Appears as if they make up the rules as they see fit at the moment - sure that will not be acceptable as far as OSCR are concerned, will have to wait for the answers to my questions to them about the validity of this committee.

[Tubthumper]

Pat- re voting & quorum (post #326)
"9. Voting and Quorum
With the exception of changes to the constitution and dissolution of the fund, decisions put to a vote shall be resolved by a simple majority; the chair of the meeting shall hold a casting vote to be used where there has been an equality of votes cast.
The quorum at annual general meetings shall be five; the quorum at management committee meetings shall be three or such number as the committee may from time to time determine"

[Alice in Blunderland]

What would happen if any/some of them became incapacitated and were no longer able to take part in " the committee" meetings?



Oh pat careful this thread is being closely monitered should there be a need for legal action :Razz

This may be taken as a veiled threat. [lol] only kidding ;)

[Alice in Blunderland]

The quorum at annual general meetings shall be five; the quorum at management committee meetings shall be three or such number as the committee may from time to time determine"[/I]

Would this mean that if a couple of them decided to get together at a meeting to vote on something then they could :confused

[pat]

Tubthumper - thanks for pointing the 5 at AGM - that was what I meant about any of "the committee" being incapacitated in any way and unable to attend - holiday, jail, hospital, jury service, family needs, etc -things which are extremely difficult to evade/avoid to attend an AGM of a "charity".
If they are unable to have a quorum at the AGM do they continue with meeting which makes the meeting noncompliant with their constitution and therefore any discussions and decisions nul and void and another AGM/EGM should be called at a later date to enable all 5 members to attend.


A-i-B - yes that was also what I was meaning.
If some of them wanted a decision to go one way all they appear to have to do is call a meeting when they knew the objectors or people against the idea, were unable to attend, that way they get their majority.
Simple or is it me being extremely suspicious of a committee which does not appear to stand up to much scrutiny?
How much notice of a meeting has to be given, can one be called without notice and then the decision given to the members who were not there!


This appears one committee I would like to be involved with - it may solve some of my questions.

[Tubthumper]

This appears one committee I would like to be involved with - it may solve some of my questions.
Bearing in mind the furore that was created by Wickers over the Gala funds affair, I would guess that a fair few will be wishing to join the WADF, now they've come out and stated their case. And as it seems that they're awful short of members and (like so many other groups) struggling to muster a committee.
Seems a simple enough process (and I can't see any reference to a membership fee), just write to:

The Secretary
WADF
16 Thurso Street
Wick
Caithness KW1 5LF

"4. Membership
Membership is open to any individual aged 18 or over who actively supports the aims & objects of the Fund and to any group or body which actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund.

The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or to terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by the management committee before its decision is made. The management committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual membership subscription and its period of implementation.”

But of course, they would have to have a good reason for refusing, and note that membership is not restricted to people in Wick & environs.

Come on, orgers, a charity needs members and a committee, let's all stand up and be counted!

"Working On Behalf Of The Community!"

[Happy Guy]

The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or to terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by the management committee before its decision is made. The management committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual membership subscription and its period of implementation.”

There is a reference to membership fees (see above) and I suspect that if a significant number of new membership applications arrive, we will see the above rule rapidly implemented. I wonder at what level?

[Alice in Blunderland]

The management committee shall have the right to refuse membership or to terminate the membership at its discretion; but the member whose termination is under consideration shall have the right to be heard by the management committee before its decision is made. The management committee shall from time to time determine the level of any annual membership subscription and its period of implementation.”

There is a reference to membership fees (see above) and I suspect that if a significant number of new membership applications arrive, we will see the above rule rapidly implemented. I wonder at what level?


With OSCR watching what is happening I doubt implementing this rule at present would be a very wise move.

Bearing in mind this thread has been brought to their attention.

[Tubthumper]

... I suspect that if a significant number of new membership applications arrive, we will see the above rule rapidly implemented. I wonder at what level?

I would expect any membership fee to be minimal, just to cover the costs of printing membership cards, extra minutes & agendas, plus posting. However the membership might decide on a regular newsletter, or at the very least a website as Phill has suggested which might add a wee cost.

And at some point it might be more economical to announce the AGM in the Groat rather than sending out individual invites, although I suppose we'll all have to get the minutes & agenda anyway.

We can discuss all these things at the AGM. :D

[Tubthumper]

At the AGM and other meetings we, as WADF members, will be able to decide how to raise more cash for the sports stadium project, seeing as the A-T Tickets are unviable.

But I'm telling you now, there is no way I'm doing a sponsored bike ride in a mankini!

My saddlebags couldn't stand the chafing! :eek:

[Happy Guy]

But I'm telling you now, there is no way I'm doing a sponsored bike ride in a mankini!

My saddlebags couldn't stand the chafing! :eek:

aww now you've dissapointed all the ladies on the org!

[crayola]

I found this using Google

The chairmen confirmed that after travelling thousands of miles and speaking to a lot of people he was even more confident that the new stadium described as a community based project will go ahead and asked for the backing of everyone. Mr Gunn hopes the funding will be in place by the end of the year and the first of a rolling programme of grants will be applied for. While the members supported the project there was concern that there was a cloud of secrecy surrounding the whole issue but Mr Gunn denied this and said that the development fund's AGM will be held shortly and applications for membership could be had from Andrew Carter. A number of sites have been identified and the club are confident that they will get a site and appropriate planning permission. It is hoped that details of the plans will be highlighted in the Groat once they are finalised.
This sounds good doesn't it tubs? :cool:

[Tubthumper]

It's about time too! When was this Crayola?

[crayola]

It's about time too! When was this Crayola?
It's dated 25/05/2001 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wickacademy/latest%20news2.htm) :lol:

[Tubthumper]

It's dated 25/05/2001 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wickacademy/latest%20news2.htm) :lol:
Oh. Should have guessed.

The delay will be because of all these pesky mischief-makers who are dead against a sports complex for Wick, as the Secretary points out in his earlier rants posts.

[Alice in Blunderland]

The delay will be because of all these pesky mischief-makers who are dead against a sports complex for Wick, as the Secretary points out in his earlier rants posts.


SO its all YOUR FAULT then !! :roll: Bend over time for a kick in the ..... :Razz

[Tubthumper]

SO its all YOUR FAULT then !!
What did I do? :eek: I only want to help get this thing moving again, get a sports complex for Wick back onto the cards!

I'm serious!

[Alice in Blunderland]

I'm serious!


I know you are keep up the good work :D


Loving your signature :D

[Tubthumper]

It's dated 25/05/2001 (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wickacademy/latest%20news2.htm) :lol:
There's been no progress in 9 years, that's why we need fresh members joining.

I've sent my application in (recorded of course). I hope the present membership understand that I'm doing all this to help get the sports complex project back into the public eye and keep it there. And as a member I can bring a lot of fundraising, PR and project management expertise (plus enthusiasm and humour) to the table.

[Amy-Winehouse]

There's been no progress in 9 years, that's why we need fresh members joining.

I've sent my application in (recorded of course). I hope the present membership understand that I'm doing all this to help get the sports complex project back into the public eye and keep it there. And as a member I can bring a lot of fundraising, PR and project management expertise (plus enthusiasm and humour) to the table.

Tenner says you dont get in nor a reply :cool:

[Alice in Blunderland]

And as a member I can bring a lot of fundraising, PR and project management expertise (plus enthusiasm and humour) to the table.

I bet some would rather it was your head on a plate that was brought to the table. ;) [lol]

Good luck with your application. As you say more bums on seats, more folk to help move this project forward to its end goal.

[Tubthumper]

Tenner says you dont get in nor a reply :cool:
You're on! (the tenner can go to the Fund!):lol:

[Tubthumper]

Tenner says you dont get in nor a reply :cool:
Here Amy I just remembered, you bet we wouldn't get a reply from the WADF on here and we DID! (albeit only because the committee will only lower themselves to communicate on their own terms and the Groat wouldn't publish their huge letter).

Is that a tenner you owe us already? ;)

[Tubthumper]

Letter is progressing through the delivery system. Not quite so rapid this time, but never mind! :D

[Tubthumper]

Don't know if this should be in the Literature section, but I was bored and felt inspired to rotten poetry for the first time in months (and it's inspired by this thread)



Us Here Now

A pot of gold
A fund of plenty
Cornucopia indeed
Which overspills and threatens
To unite a people low and glum with hanging cloud

The Gala diddle
And further fiddle
In the bandroom sets our tone control to miserable
Bold grey geese call
We move to the fall
Will nothing serve to set a smile?

Can there be any salvation for us?
Can we drag these sagging spirits
Onto a happier kind of bus
And navigate towards the sun
Ring the bell, let the driver know we want to leap
From his platform onto a better, fairer, happier pavement

(Butseeoverthereinthedistance…)

Gala floats are the Real McCoys
BFest to make an annual noise
Sea turbines bring employment joys
New school for all our girls and boys
The Fund helps pay for sporting toys
All blend to make new Wick alloys

Next year laughter and high jinks
The Stagecoach departs empty, returns bursting
More, and bigger trains required
A population rising buoyed on the spirit of Far North
United against pishy weather, stinky economy, nasty secrecy
Working together for a better flatness
Striving for a lack of trees with opportunity
Driving by the flagstone fences that say it’s here and now

Verdant, blustery, damp and empty
But OURS
And BETTER
With CHANCES
For ALL OF US

[riggerboy]

a canny be bothered going through this threat complete can some give me a general whats happening so far, it seems to harder to keep up with than eastenders ?????

[Tubthumper]

Bing bing bing bing bing biiiiing bing (eastenders tune)
Well:
After a bit of a furore the information requested arrived, at the same time as the WADF secretary posted a huge response on here (took up 3 posts!) That was because the Groat wouldn't take their letter responding to J Stone's call unless they cut it by half, so in order to respond, they put the whole thing on here. You should read it, it's interesting (pages 15 & 16 I think).
In summary, their letter sought to


address some of the issues raised
threaten legal action
explain that the WADF had bailed out a bankrupt & failing lazy local football club
describe significant mischief-making which caused the income to drop and meant that the sole site that they had their eye on suddenly wasn't available.

It pointed out that they comply with all OSCR requirements (forgot to post their return for this year but that's a minor thing) and are still working on behalf of the community, despite all their setbacks.

There's £135k in the bank. 5 members on the committee (a few of us are joining to help spread the load and get things moving again). The committee agreed to look at working with the new school arrangement. They stopped selling the A-T Tickets as the income was no longer covering the outlay on prizes. They never got my first letter, and have made sure the OSCR were aware of the org thread.

A few queries have come up on the content of their letter, like 'who was on the FC committee when it was going down the tubes' and 'Are the committee members REALLY having to do all that work themselves, and can they really block membership applications?'

And that's it in a nutshell. A fair dunt of cash (well done WADF and all the collectors & contributors), no real movement on a sport complex, and we're just waiting for our memberships. You should join as well, the more decent coves there are the less strain is involved in getting the WADF sorted out and back in action for the community.

Oh and we've been trying to identify new fundraising methods, the thread's dropped to page 2 but you can still vote.

Doof, Doof Duh Doof-Doof dudududuh.

[riggerboy]

so has anyone apologised to jackie gunn or is his name still dirty, i`ve known jackie for many years and i think he has been used as a scapegoat,,,, please enlighten me in this

[Tubthumper]

so has anyone apologised to jackie gunn or is his name still dirty, i`ve known jackie for many years and i think he has been used as a scapegoat,,,, please enlighten me in this
Yep, to all the committee, I think on page 17. As for still having a 'dirty name' I don't know.

It seems to me that the committee could have done far more to let people know what was happening over the 10 years they've been operating. As for who is to blame for the reputation and the bad feeling that seems to have arisen in Wick about this fund, maybe you can enlighten us. When did it start, why did it start, how did it persist, how could it have been prevented?

If I'm joining this group it would be nice to know what's in the background. :)

[Tubthumper]

Membership application letter has been delivered. This is getting exciting now!:)

[DeHaviLand]

Membership application letter has been delivered. This is getting exciting now!:)

Until you get a reply saying that membership applications are decide annually, 2nd week in August :(

[Amy-Winehouse]

Here Amy I just remembered, you bet we wouldn't get a reply from the WADF on here and we DID! (albeit only because the committee will only lower themselves to communicate on their own terms and the Groat wouldn't publish their huge letter).

Is that a tenner you owe us already? ;)

Was it a tenner bet ? I cant be bothered to look tbh, Im losing interest rapidly in this thread- sorry. Incidently , How much money did you personally sink into the WADF ? I wid say maybe £40 of my hard earned went on tickets

[Tubthumper]

Was it a tenner bet ? I cant be bothered to look tbh, Im losing interest rapidly in this thread- sorry. Incidently , How much money did you personally sink into the WADF ? I wid say maybe £40 of my hard earned went on tickets
Never mind about the tenner, you can donate it to the WADF next time you're in Wick. I bought quite a few tickets thinking it was for a stadium for WAFC.

Sorry you're bored with this thread (I am as well, but glad it attracted over 27 000 views!) Maybe there'll be reports of good things happening soon.

Anyway at least now we know that there's a dunt of dosh waiting to be used even though there's been no actual movement towards the goal. :cool: How about joining the WADF and helping it on its way?

[WICKER10]

Was it a tenner bet ? I cant be bothered to look tbh, Im losing interest rapidly in this thread- sorry. Incidently , How much money did you personally sink into the WADF ? I wid say maybe £40 of my hard earned went on tickets

Amy Winehouse you should know how the WADF works very well as WADF used to draw the tickets in the Taxi office of your former employer

[Tubthumper]

Until you get a reply saying that membership applications are decide annually, 2nd week in August :(
WHAT? Did you actually get that reply?? :eek:

[DeHaviLand]

WHAT? Did you actually get that reply?? :eek:

No tubs, I was just preparing you for the almost inevitable disappointment.

[Tubthumper]

My counsellor tells to me to always think positive! Glass half-full (or fool half-gassed?) and all that.

I'm only trying to help!:)

[ducati]

I'm writing to Mr Carter to request a membership application form as per the rules. I hope if I do it 'by the book' I will get a positive response. I have 35 years business management experience so I hope I can be an asset. I also regularly deal with the funding bodies so maybe I can help there, at least with understanding the way they work.

BTW where can I get a set of Wick Alloys for my car? :eek:

[Tubthumper]

[QUOTE]I'm writing to Mr Carter to request a membership application form as per the rules. I hope if I do it 'by the book' I will get a positive response. I have 35 years business management experience so I hope I can be an asset. I also regularly deal with the funding bodies so maybe I can help there, at least with understanding the way they work.Great, skills like that are key to any project of this type. I'm hoping I can bring some useful skills in too.

BTW where can I get a set of Wick Alloys for my car? :eek:
Maybe try Wick? But make sure you get those locky wheely things just to be on the safe side...


Sorry about that, I couldn't think of anything else that rhymed!

[Amy-Winehouse]

Amy Winehouse you should know how the WADF works very well as WADF used to draw the tickets in the Taxi office of your former employer

Did they ?? Well I certainly never saw the draw being made, so your wrong Im afraid.

If thats the case, I get in a helicopter twice a month, so I should ken how to fly one now eh ;)

[ducati]

Did they ?? Well I certainly never saw the draw being made, so your wrong Im afraid.

If thats the case, I get in a helicopter twice a month, so I should ken how to fly one now eh ;)

I've found, that the Pilots get very upset if you wrestle the controls away screaming "lets have a shot" :eek:

[Tubthumper]

I've found, that the Pilots get very upset if you wrestle the controls away screaming "lets have a shot" :eek:
Duke, it can't be that hard. The most difficult bit is keeping it in one place, it doesn't even need a steering wheel for goodness' sake!

Surely an experienced taxi driver could manage to drive one no problem?

[Phill]

The most difficult bit is keeping it in one place

I'm still trying to work out how they keep 'em on the ground once the spinny bits get going.

[Tubthumper]

When all's said and done, its just one of them Causewaymire things with seats and windows.

[Tubthumper]

Did they ?? Well I certainly never saw the draw being made, so your wrong Im afraid.

If thats the case, I get in a helicopter twice a month, so I should ken how to fly one now eh ;)
You work offshore Amy, did you used to sell the tickets when they were on the go? Did you have to be a member of WADF to sell them? And if you're not already, how do you fancy joining and lending a hand?

[Tubthumper]

so has anyone apologised to jackie gunn or is his name still dirty, i`ve known jackie for many years and i think he has been used as a scapegoat,,,, please enlighten me in this
Did you used to sell the tickets offshore RB? And do you not fancy joining WADF to muck in, help a Wick charity get to its objectives?

After all you (along with a few others on the org) got quite annoyed about the gala funds.

[Tubthumper]

You know something, we've been spending time with this thread (and its predecessor which got closed under threat of legal action), on behalf of the community for nearly two months now. I'm really quite annoyed that the WADF, who posted a huge letter on here (and by definition willingly joined the online debate) have never bothered posting since, even to address the very pertinent questions that were asked about their strange and frankly slavering posts.

Among other things, they made claims about the early days of the fund which just didn't add up, which perhaps put the remainder of their response to calls from Jamie Stone MSP in doubt.

You know, items 15-17, We bailed out a club that couldn't be bothered blah blah... set up a separate fund to help the club but would only give money under duress splutter rant... no legal obligation blah slaver... saved the club from extinction rave splutter...

The Secretary never bothered mentioning that the poor club was actually run at the time by the present WADF committee (and which seems to be doing just fine now since it voted to get rid of the failing chairman and secretary, who managed to separate the club's Development Fund from the club and take it with them when they got kicked out).

Despite the Secretary's plea for community support at the end of the letter (which seemed odd seeing as he'd blamed the lack of progress on 'mischief-makers - concerned members of the community perhaps?) I think the WADFs failure to respond since then, or to continue contributing to the ongoing discussion on here is pretty low. But probably typical of the existing committee who seem think they're above communicating with the community they claim to serve (and their elected representatives) unless they're forced.

When I gain membership (and based on the WADF constitution on what basis can they refuse me?) I'll volunteer to take up the role of Secretary and make a point of communicating with the community properly!

[WICKER10]

You know something, we've been spending time with this thread (and its predecessor which got closed under threat of legal action), on behalf of the community for nearly two months now. I'm really quite annoyed that the WADF, who posted a huge letter on here (and by definition willingly joined the online debate) have never bothered posting since, even to address the very pertinent questions that were asked about their strange and frankly slavering posts.

Among other things, they made claims about the early days of the fund which just didn't add up, and put the remainder of their response to Jamie Stone MSP in doubt.

You know, items 15-17, We bailed out a club that couldn't be bothered blah blah... set up a separate fund to help the club but would only give money under duress splutter rant... no legal obligation blah slaver... saved the club from extinction rave splutter...

The Secretary never bothered mentioning that the poor club was actually run at the time by the present WADF committee (and which seems to be doing just fine now since it voted to get rid of the failing chairman and secretary, who managed to separate the club's Development Fund from the club and take it with them when they got kicked out).

Despte the Secretary's plea for community support at the end of the letter I think the WADFs failure to respond since then, or to continue contributing to the ongoing discussion on here is pretty low. But probably typical of the existing committee who seem think they're above communicating with the community they claim to serve (and their elected representatives) unless they're forced.

When I gain membership (and based on the WADF constitution on what basis can they refuse me?) I'll volunteer to take up the role of Secretary and make a point of communicating with the community properly!

Well said Tubthumper Wick Acd have come on leaps and bounds since the meeting that Got rid of The Chairman and his mate.
It is a Pity the present Wick Acd cannot access these funds as i am sure they would put them to good use for the benefit of the people of Caithness

[Tubthumper]

It is a Pity the present Wick Acd cannot access these funds as i am sure they would put them to good use for the benefit of the people of Caithness
That's a good point W10. Since in 10 years they have failed to acquire the single piece of land they wanted for a completely new complex, the existing committee have rightly spoken about linking with the new High School to provide, I assume, something like a large stand and all weather pitch etc. But why does the community need another stand and all-weather pitch?

So rather than just combine the money with the High School project, why not combine the money with the Harmsworth Park project and save duplication? After all, Wick Academy FC is the one single bit of Caithness that is noticed by the wider Scottish public every week.

I know WAFC have distanced themselves from WADF, but surely for the good of the community WADF can look at starting a dialogue with the club. The existing £135k just getting swallowed up in the school project may be fine, but a lasting legacy outside what the Council should provide anyway seems a better legacy that acknowledges the efforts made by the WADF.

To completely disregard the club seems petty and immature to me, and makes it look like the existing committee have took the huff or are simply on an ego trip.

[Amy-Winehouse]

You work offshore Amy, did you used to sell the tickets when they were on the go? Did you have to be a member of WADF to sell them? And if you're not already, how do you fancy joining and lending a hand?

No I certainly didnt, I support the Football club & the team but Ive nothing to do with WADF .

[Tubthumper]

No I certainly didnt, I support the Football club & the team but Ive nothing to do with WADF .
Sorry. I thought you might be up for joining to help get the project on its way. :(

[Alice in Blunderland]

I see the AGM was May of this year so its another year or so until another one :confused

[crayola]

There's been no progress in 9 years, that's why we need fresh members joining.It's remarkable isn't it?

WADF's recent rant suggests their attitude has stood still for more than 9 years and their silence since that outburst suggests they don't want to change in the foreseeable future either. :roll:

Keep up the good works tubs, WADF desperately needs your openness and expertise.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Keep up the good works tubs, WADF desperately needs your openness and expertise.

They need it but somehow I doubt they want it or anyone else's help. :roll:

It will most likely be seen as 'mischief making'.


One long letter then nothing else, back to silence and non communication with the public which is why they find themselves in this predicament. :(

It will be interesting to see how many of the folks who have stepped forward to offer assistance will be accepted onto this small committee.

[crayola]

They need it but somehow I doubt they want it or anyone else's help. :roll:

It will most likely be seen as 'mischief making'.


One long letter then nothing else, back to silence and non communication with the public which is why they find themselves in this predicament. :(

It will be interesting to see how many of the folks who have stepped forward to offer assistance will be accepted onto this small committee.
AiB it won't be seen as mischief making because they said.....


38) After this open and frank letter, W.A.D.F. now hopes that the journey will get a little easier. The people that we know we are up against have done a lot of damage so far and won’t thank us for our revelations but we hope that we can regain the all important respect, trust and support of the public that we require and desire.
Oh God I can't finish this post as I intended because I'm laughing so much. :lol:

[W.A.D.F. (SC032787)]

Whilst everyone has been busy nit-picking and disecting WADF's response, what's really been bugging me is that it's claimed that there is / was a community councillor in our midst who appears to have done a heck of a lot of damage to the future of this project and yet so far, no one appears to have, either noticed or cared! Maybe some of the efforts being expended on here should be channelled towards finding out just who this individual is....Who is it? Anyone any ideas?

[Tubthumper]

Whilst everyone has been busy nit-picking and disecting WADF's response, what's really been bugging me is that it's claimed that there is / was a community councillor in our midst who appears to have done a heck of a lot of damage to the future of this project and yet so far, no one appears to have, either noticed or cared! Maybe some of the efforts being expended on here should be channelled towards finding out just who this individual is....Who is it? Anyone any ideas?
I didn't bother pursuing it because I thought it looked like the WADF were just trying to shift the blame for their failure to meet their aim, which was to get £100k for a feasibility study. There's £135k there now, which says to me that the target must have been met a few years ago.

Yet there is no site and no plan, there has been no study, apparently no communication with local sporting bodies and precious little info given out to the local folk. Not even a website for goodness sake!

And the ongoing silence on here just serves to reinforce belief that this is a bunch of people with little or no idea what to do next, but who are determined to get their own way.

Mischief makers, community councillors... it was their fault guv! The Archer, you've helped out with your recorded delivery suggestion, you're obviously on the side of reason - maybe you can speculate on who the councillor was that has apparently prevented the building of a football stadium for Wick, and also maybe on their reasons for doing so.

Be careful though, there could be legal repercussions! ;)

[gleeber]

What have I missed?
Ive been following this thread closely and Ive missed the introduction of the mystery person. Could you fill me in on their part in this saga to save me reading the WADF release again, please?

[Tubthumper]

Gleeber: In summary, it was all someone else's fault.

edit - Hur hur, I saw what you did there...
the WADF release

[WICKER10]

Whilst everyone has been busy nit-picking and disecting WADF's response, what's really been bugging me is that it's claimed that there is / was a community councillor in our midst who appears to have done a heck of a lot of damage to the future of this project and yet so far, no one appears to have, either noticed or cared! Maybe some of the efforts being expended on here should be channelled towards finding out just who this individual is....Who is it? Anyone any ideas?

This person was acting on there own i think not as part of Wick Community Council he was a Community Councillor at the time and also had to do with the playing field upgrade in the Bignold Park.
He should know all about Charity funds as i believe he has close links with the Tax Office it was his complaint that started the OSCR to look at this fund.Well done to him to highlight this group as things are Not right

[crayola]

Mischief makers, community councillors... it was their fault guv!
That's why I was laughing so much last night. They spent more time attacking this alleged community councillor and blaming him for the way they choose to run their secret society than they did trying to get the public onside. :roll:

[Tubthumper]

That's why I was laughing so much last night. They spent more time attacking this alleged community councillor and blaming him for the way they choose to run their secret society than they did trying to get the public onside. :roll:
Stop nit-picking Crayola! :) They have a motto that says they're 'working for the benefit of the community' which should be enough to satisfy the most cynical of sporting observers. Perhaps we should just accept that they know best when it comes to sports provision.

Seriously though, how difficult is it to set up a simple website to let people know what you're planning and how you're getting on? :confused

Also, the view count for this thread shows 28 757 this morning, that's about equivalent to a view for every single living human being in the County of Caithness. There is still significant interest from the community.

[Wario]

That's why I was laughing so much last night. They spent more time attacking this alleged community councillor and blaming him for the way they choose to run their secret society than they did trying to get the public onside. :roll:

Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me? I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member:confused

If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.

[mrlennie]

Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me? I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member:confused

If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.

But you were always mischievous wario - It's just your nature[lol]

[Tubthumper]

Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me? I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member:confused

If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.
Wario, Wario
We wonder who you are-io
To front of stage, you star-io
And tell us all you know
Caithness folk near and far-io
Now spill it blow by blow! :)

Sounds extremely interesting, perhaps a few more details, a drip at a time? But paying attention to the legal niceties of course!

[Phill]

.........to run their secret society........ Now, now. It's not a secret society it's all open and above board......so we're told.


Seriously though, how difficult is it to set up a simple website to let people know what you're planning and how you're getting on?Incredibly easy, and my offer still stands. Additionally I'm sure Messrs Fernie could find a bit of space on the .org.


pets winning jackpots and so on
Oooooh, did Dale Winton do the draw?

[Tubthumper]

...when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member
Now that's what I call a secret society, even the members don't know they're members!!

Can we take it that getting membership of WADF is simpler than we think then? :confused

[WICKER10]

Just been told that No New memberships of WADF are being granted at the moment hence i will not be getting a membership.
Anyone else tried to join?
Was also told that members do not have a vote on matters just the exec commitee .
The whole thing is a farce and it is our money they are playing games with

[DeHaviLand]

Well, what a surprise :roll:

[Tubthumper]

I can't believe this Wicker10! They've turned you down? They must have told you direct as there's no mail today, what did they say and who said it?

From the WADF's Constitution:
"5. Management of the Fund
The affairs of the fund, including the adoption of regulations and bye-laws, shall be conducted by a management committee comprising the honorary officers (who shall be appointed under the terms of clause 6 following) and up to 5 ordinary management committee members as shall be elected at the annual general meeting of the Fund to hold office for one year till the end of the next annual general meeting."

There are 'vacancies' for ordinary members as of the last AGM (May 2010). That's why people are applying to join, because (a) They wish to help a struggling committee and (b) they wish to ensure the doings of the WADF are sound. It seems strange to me that a committee could effectively set themselves up to block a membership application when they claim that membership is 'open to...'

"Ordinary members of the management committee retiring from office may stand for re-election but if they shall have completed six continuous years as a committee member or officer they shall not be eligible for re-election but may stand for election as a member of the management committee or officer at the next annual general meeting."

So they make provision for up to 5 ordinary members on the committee with voting rights. So your source was wrong, members who are elected to the committee do have voting rights. But you're telling us that 'No New memberships of WADF are being granted at the moment', in other words they refuse to let you join Wicker10, so there can be no members on the executive committee?

"6. Honorary Officers
The officers of the Fund shall consist of a chairman, a vice-chairman, a secretary, a treasurer and an executive officer. All officers shall be elected at the annual general meeting and will hold office for a three-year term. On the completion of their term, officers may stand for re-election for a further three year period. Should any officer stand down during their period of office, the officers shall elect a suitable replacement whose appointment will be ratified by the members at the following annual general meeting."

So if a member of the committee (ie one of the 5 existing honorary officers) was to stand down, perhaps because some recent event has thrown their behaviour as a charity trustee into doubt, or the other members of the comittee have doubts about their suitability, then the committee would have to elect a replacement from the remaining membership of 4? But without that member the committee would not be quorate (needs 5 members) and so I assume would have to go to the membership to find another committee member. But are there any other members?

It becomes stranger. Must find out about this situation.

[Tubthumper]

I just had to claim post number 400 for myself! :)

And almost 30 000 views! That's amazing, don't tell me there's no interest in what's going on! :lol:

[crayola]

Never mind giving all the credit to this councillor, what about me? I am now thought of as a pen pal with Oscar I have written so many letters exposing false promises, delays, pets winning jackpots and so on and the pen was really hot when I was thrown out of the fund, despite not even knowing I was ever a member:confused

If there are medals being handed out for exposing this sham I would expect to be on the podium.Apologies Wario. I do appreciate that you've been doing serious work while some of us have not. :o

C x

[Happy Guy]

"Ordinary members of the management committee retiring from office may stand for re-election but if they shall have completed six continuous years as a committee member or officer they shall not be eligible for re-election but may stand for election as a member of the management committee or officer at the next annual general meeting."

This seems to contradict its self, or am I being dim? It says rhat if a mamber has served for 6 continious years they are not eligible for re-election but then goes on to say they may stand for election at the next AGM? And surely by now all members have served for more than 6 years?
I am REALLY confused now

[Tubthumper]

Me too Happy Guy! :eek: How can it be legitimate to put a restriction on ordinary members serving on the committee (and then not having any) but not on those who are 'honorary officers'? There are so many things I just don't get, including how can someone set up an 'open' charity only to stop people from joining?? :confused And Wario's post about getting kicked out when he didn't even know he was a member has made me even MORE suspicious!

Can I ask a question please? Could all those following this thread who are themselves, or who know anyone who is a member of WADF, please post on here or pm me?

Don't worry about getting accosted by the committee in the streets of Wick, i'm sure they've given that up, and I'll keep it confidential.

I just want to get an idea of how many members (obviously those who actually KNOW they're members!) there might be before I ask the WADF how they went about recruiting members and when they last accepted anyone.

Let me know if you got kicked out too, and the reasons. :)

[Tubthumper]

They rejected me! :eek:

'Please note that we are not actually seeking new members at this time, but I have noted your interest and have put your application on file until when that position changes.'

This is supposed to be a charity with open membership (subject to the committee's right to refuse or terminate membership) according to their constitution! It looks to me as if 'not actually seeking new members' indicates they are operating a closed membership at a time when they desparately need expertise to push the project forward from its complete stall. While that saves them having to reject membership applications (where of course they'd have to explain why) it's hardly in the spirit of their governing document.

Is it arrogance? Desperation? Or have they just got used to getting their own way while they're not getting anywhere?

I've had about enough of this.:confused

[DeHaviLand]

Tubs, I hope you're not surprised!
seems to me like a further investigation into this group is now in order. There would appear to be a great deal of questions missing some very important answers!:roll:

[ducati]

Tubs, I know I promised to apply, but after a PM from another orger quoting word for word the response you got, I didn't. I'm afraid I don't handle rejection well. Ask Mrs ducati :eek:

[Tubthumper]

That's OK Duke, it would just have been a waste of a stamp. They're not interested.

We might as well face it, with these guys running the show there's never going to be a footie stadium or anything else built with the money. Maybe it should just get added to the High School pot.

[Corrie 3]

That's OK Duke, it would just have been a waste of a stamp. They're not interested.
Is it worth having a word with the Groat about these applications being turned away do you think Tubs?
If not, what do you suggest as a next line of approach?
:(

[Tubthumper]

Is it worth having a word with the Groat about these applications being turned away do you think Tubs?
If not, what do you suggest as a next line of approach?

Maybe just querying what's going on with OSCR yet again.

I have to say, I'm becoming pretty disillusioned. As those who have previously tried to get some action or sense out of the WADF have found, they seem to be able to sit back and thumb their noses at us while failing to actually do anything (including building a stadium for our Highland League team as they originally promised) with our money.:(

[Alice in Blunderland]

They rejected me! :eek:



Rejection is so hard. Dont let it get you down. :D

Better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all.


Pick yourself up dust yourself down and start all over again. :eek:

[Tubthumper]

Thanks Alice, you've rejuvenated my enthusiasm glands again!

The WADF obviously lack the skills and ability to organise the building of a multi-purpose football stadium and training facility, have given up trying (see their response on pages 14-15) and are too petty and self-centred to let anyone else with applicable skills join their exclusive clique to help move the project on after 10 years and no movement.

The only avenue they're exploring is to liaise with the new high school build [they don't appear to have managed to find any partners] and maybe put the cash towards improving the sports facilities there. That's not a bad idea, but it's certainly not the only road forward. The people of Wick and environs think there are better uses it can be put to, if people with some imagination, drive and ability are permitted to have a say.

I think a letter to the WADF asking them (a) to clarify their strange membership policy and (b) to explain why the only avenue they are now willing to explore is the school one, is in order. Recorded delivery of course. And copied to OSCR and the relevant elected representatives.

Of course, I could be wrong, and the people of Wick and environs actually want the dosh stuffed into the school pot. If that's the case, why not post on here and let us all know.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Of course, I could be wrong, and the people of Wick and environs actually want the dosh stuffed into the school pot. If that's the case, why not post on here and let us all know.


I believe if the money is not going to be used to develop a stadium it should go to something with a distinct football theme. As the funding is secured for the High School ( well once the money is in the bank )
would it not be better to invest this money into another project more deserving ?

East End football club or split between all the local football clubs and teams, or even Wick Academy football team which to most people who read the title of the fund would assume they are fund raising to develop Wick Academy :confused


Of course the fund could accept new members who are enthusiastic and willing to help and push forward to the end goal. :)

This would indeed mean they would not have the ultimate control that they now have, however it would mean that they would be a step closer to achieving what they originally set out to do. :)

[tonkatojo]

I believe if the money is not going to be used to develop a stadium it should go to something with a distinct football theme. As the funding is secured for the High School ( well once the money is in the bank )
would it not be better to invest this money into another project more deserving ?

East End football club or split between all the local football clubs and teams, or even Wick Academy football team which to most people who read the title of the fund would assume they are fund raising to develop Wick Academy :confused


Of course the fund could accept new members who are enthusiastic and willing to help and push forward to the end goal.

This would indeed mean they would not have the ultimate control that they now have, however it would mean that they would be a step closer to achieving what they originally set out to do. :)

Steady Alice, far to much common sense. ;)

[telfordstar]

Tubs, I hope you're not surprised!
seems to me like a further investigation into this group is now in order. There would appear to be a great deal of questions missing some very important answers!:roll:

Well said. WICKER10 is very very good at these kind of investigations. They should do it :)

[Alice in Blunderland]

Steady Alice, far to much common sense.

Woops I know but when you look at this whole thing common sense seems to have gone out the window and feet stamping and tossing of toys and dummies from prams has taken over (or maybe its been there since the split from Wick Academy football team).

The more people who now apply to this fund I garuantee the more refusals that will come back. WHY ?? because their is a huge amount of lets say huffing and puffing going on! IMHO and without prejuce ( since lawyers could be monitoring this ;) )


This fund is now at a crossroads where to go from here? I certainly hope that this vast amount of money is not thrown at the first cause that they can think off just to get rid of it as that truly will be a waste of all the years hard work that has gone into raising this money.

The dream of a sports stadium is still there just let others including those who have received their rejection letters lately participate and help to bring it to reality ! :)


OSCR are looking at this fund and will continue to probe into it as long as their is this air of secrecy and suspicion. Do the organisers really want to put up with all this agro ? A change of attitude is all that will take to make the road a little less bumpy instead of pointing the finger at others and saying its all their fault. :)

[Tubthumper]

Well said. WICKER10 is very very good at these kind of investigations. They should do it :)
That's fair, Wicker10 started the original (closed) thread off, and it'll save me getting all worked up (and wasting money on recorded delivery!)

[Happy Guy]

They rejected me! :eek:

'Please note that we are not actually seeking new members at this time, but I have noted your interest and have put your application on file until when that position changes.'

:confused
Well, I got my "Letter of Rejection" today. Identical wording! Its quite humiliating to be turned down by a charity when offering help and time for free. I have worked with a number of charities over my (many!) years, and have never met with anything other than the warmest and most enthusiastic of welcomes. WADF is obviously different from the charities I have been involved with before, both major national, and small local ones.

[Tubthumper]

Happy Guy, this isn't your average charity we're talking about here, these people are special. :confused

Don't be downhearted, it says more about them than it does about us! You'll just have to e-mail OSCR, the poor lassie must be about demented!

And as Alice in Blunderland pointed out, this kind of thing makes people thinking twice about donating, supporting or trying to get involved in any good cause.

[Alice in Blunderland]

And as Alice in Blunderland pointed out, this kind of thing makes people thinking twice about donating, supporting or trying to get involved in any good cause.


Exactly this will have a very negative affect on many other small charities. From a tiny seed of suspicion mighty great oak trees of doubt and caution grow.

This negativity in itself will go against OSCRs principles would it not. :confused

[Tubthumper]

Mr A Carter
Secretary
Wick Academy Development Fund
16 Thurso Street
Wick
Caithness
KW1 5LF


3rd September 2010

Dear Mr Carter

Thank you for your letter of 26th August advising me that that WADF is not currently seeking new members.
As I am still very interested in helping move the organisation towards finally meeting its stated objects and aims, I wonder if you would mind answering a few questions:
1. Your constitution states that membership of WADF is open to any individual aged over 18 who actively supports the aims and objects of the Fund. Why are you effectively refusing membership to those who apply, despite their apparent qualification?
2. I am concerned that the current committee (as elected by the membership) is not effectively directing the WADF. Can you please tell me:
(a) How many members the WADF currently has?
(b) How many members attended the last AGM in May?
(c) How the existing members were generally recruited?
(d) When the last time the WADF accepted a membership application was?
3. The WADF committee has proved incapable of achieving its aim (providing a sports complex for Wick) and has stated it may have to work with other organisations. Can you give me an idea of:
(a) Organisations you have so far sought to associate with?
(b) Whether you have so far (or intend to in the near future) discussed use of the Wick Academy Development Fund to assist in the development of Wick Academy Football Club?
5. The sole site the WADF had informally identified for the sports complex became unavailable, apparently due to ‘mischief-makers’. Can you tell me what formal approaches have been made regarding:
(a) Locations for the complex?
(b) Funding support?
(c) Access to expertise from other like-minded organisation?
6. Other than being interested in football, what suitable skills does the current committee have in organising a large community project such as that originally envisaged?
7. The current Chairman of the WADF was recently convicted on two counts of threatening behaviour in the local Sheriff Court. Can you tell me what consideration the WADF committee have given to the current incumbent’s suitability to continue in his role?
8. The community’s goodwill is essential for a project such as this, and there remains suspicion and scepticism over the WADF because of its perceived secrecy. Why have you made no effort to let the community know what you are doing on their behalf, for instance through a simple website or page on the community internet forum?
I am sure these questions will not require much research to reply to, and I hope they don’t get in the way of the WADF’s work.
Thank you very much in anticipation.


Yours Sincerely


Copies:
Via e-mail
OSCR designated case worker
Jamie Stone MSP
John Thurso MP

Via Highland Council website
Cllr Katrina McNab
Cllr Bill Fernie
Cllr Graeme Smith

[old dad]

What we have here is a complete absence of progress and a refusal to bring in any help.
This suggests to me that the objective of this fund all along was only ever to collect our money.
I think that priority must now be to get the fund back into community control.

[Corrie 3]

Good letter Tubs, superbly written if I may say so!!

Well done!

C3....:D

[Alice in Blunderland]

Tubs I assume that you sent it recorded delivery,with a stamp addressed envelope and a reasonable time stated in which you expect a reply ? :)

All to help the smooth process of your request.

[Phill]

They rejected me! :eek:

'Please note that we are not actually seeking new members at this time, but I have noted your interest and have put your application on file until when that position changes.'

Glad it wasnea just me that got a letter like that then, I'm still feeling rather let down :~(

[crayola]

We're a psychic lot on this thread. Everything we predicted has come to pass so far.

What are WADF going to do next?

Should we expect them to enter into an aggressive phase of indignant righteousness accompanied by more threats of litigation while they continue to do nothing with the fund?

[Tubthumper]

My ball is clearing... I see five angry men, they're not all bad folk, but they're agitated about people being interested in what they're doing. There's a load of money, it's very lonely and feels neglected. There's a meeting, angry words exchanged... some of them want to move forward and forget the past, there's shouting, wagging fingers, threatening behaviour... They're voting, they've changed their minds about new members. They invite those who applied to join and are 'on file' to go along to a special meeting. They offer tea and small cakes, show a slide presentation of the proposed complex. They inform the wide-eyed new members about the alternative schemes for partnership or donation of the funds, invite them to add new ideas and elect 5 members to join the executive committee. There's an EGM, a website and a meeting with the press. There's a big surprise when the present chairman stands down, once he realises that the biggest stumbling block to progress is himself. There's communication with local sports people, football teams... Wow!

[Alice in Blunderland]

My ball is clearing... I see five angry men, they're not all bad folk, but they're agitated about people being interested in what they're doing. There's a load of money, it's very lonely and feels neglected. There's a meeting, angry words exchanged... some of them want to move forward and forget the past, there's shouting, wagging fingers, threatening behaviour... They're voting, they've changed their minds about new members. They invite those who applied to join and are 'on file' to go along to a special meeting. They offer tea and small cakes, show a slide presentation of the proposed complex. They inform the wide-eyed new members about the alternative schemes for partnership or donation of the funds, invite them to add new ideas and elect 5 members to join the executive committee. There's an EGM, a website and a meeting with the press. There's a big surprise when the present chairman stands down, once he realises that the biggest stumbling block to progress is himself. There's communication with local sports people, football teams... Wow!


.................................. Erm dare I add to the story.

......................Tubs gets all excited, rolls over in the bed, lands on the floor, wakes up with a jolt and alas dream shattered back to the reality of rejection. [lol] ;)

[Tubthumper]

A dream perhaps? But one that I'm sure would make many people happy if even part of it were to come true.

[Tubthumper]

Here's another high-profile organisation that's not taking on new members.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-11212686

However those in charge are replacing it with a website, so that people can still gain enjoyment and feel part of it.

There are lessons to be learned... :D

[ducati]

Here's another high-profile organisation that's not taking on new members.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-11212686

However those in charge are replacing it with a website, so that people can still gain enjoyment and feel part of it.

There are lessons to be learned... :D

Like all the other 'Scottish' publishers and media companies they have been taken over by a giant media group.

[DeHaviLand]

Not much chance of this giant media group (the .Org) taking over at WADF though. We may have to go for a hostile takeover. Man the guns :D

[Tubthumper]

A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"

It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.

What do you think? :eek:

[Corrie 3]

A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"

It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.

What do you think? :eek:
I am starting to really worry now Tubs.....these are my thoughts....

1). How do we(the public) know that the money collected is still there? They could have shared it out amongst themselves for all we know!!

2). With the bad publicity that they have brought on themselves its clear that no more money will be given to this fund, with that in mind the committee should be stating what they are going to do with the said money.

3). I honestly think the Police should be called in to investigate, with Wicks record of "Do Gooders" pocketing money how do we know that this isnt another scam???

This non-action from this so called Committee is absolutely digraceful....if they dont come up with something soon I reckon they should be run out of town!!!!

C3....:(

[Alice in Blunderland]

A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"

It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.

What do you think? :eek:

I dont think that this will affect your ability to go out in Wick. :) You are only asking questions of a charitable organisation handling public money. Where's the harm in that ?:confused

[John Little]

A friend laughingly said to me yesterday, "You won't be able to go out in Wick ever again, after all this WADF business!"

It got me thinking. I like Wick, and I like Wickers, and I can't believe that trying to help sort out a longstanding community problem could lead to some kind of simmering hatred.

What do you think? :eek:

I would have thought it would be the other way round....

[Tubthumper]

That last post of mine looked wrong. My mate meant that certain individuals might be interested in making a night out in Wick interesting, not the whole population! Thanks for pointing that out JL.

Anyway, I told him not to be so daft. We're going out on the spree in Wick in a couple of weeks, and intend to fully enjoy the beer and crack.

And tomorrow it will be one week since I sent my last letter to the WADF, enquiring about (among other things) their membership policy.

[ducati]

That last post of mine looked wrong. My mate meant that certain individuals might be interested in making a night out in Wick interesting, not the whole population! Thanks for pointing that out JL.

Anyway, I told him not to be so daft. We're going out on the spree in Wick in a couple of weeks, and intend to fully enjoy the beer and crack.

And tomorrow it will be one week since I sent my last letter to the WADF, enquiring about (among other things) their membership policy.

Are we all invited? Safety in numbers you know :eek:

[sandyr1]

That last post of mine looked wrong. My mate meant that certain individuals might be interested in making a night out in Wick interesting, not the whole population! Thanks for pointing that out JL.

Anyway, I told him not to be so daft. We're going out on the spree in Wick in a couple of weeks, and intend to fully enjoy the beer and 'crack'.

And tomorrow it will be one week since I sent my last letter to the WADF, enquiring about (among other things) their membership policy.

Really........after all we've spoken about! Haha

[Tubthumper]

Are we all invited? Safety in numbers you know :eek:
Yes, I'll post details of the event in a whiley. Everyone's welcome!

Really........after all we've spoken about! Haha
Hah! I meant CRAIC of course. :cool:

[Alice in Blunderland]

Yes, I'll post details of the event in a whiley. Everyone's welcome!



You paying !!! :D [lol] :Razz

[ducati]

Great, we can go into Wick and get tanked up then hire a sharra down to Portgower to sort 'em out and get Corrie3 back :mad:

[Tubthumper]

We can start off in 'Spoons, grab a stake... :roll:





My coat? Taxi!

[Tubthumper]

I was just having a wee drift through the constitution of the Fund that's 'Working for the benefit of the community'. It struck me that, other than operating a membership bar, they've been following the terms of their constitution (the Governing Document that the OSCR bases its assessment of a charitiy's performance) so we can't really complain about them.
But look...

'3. Powers
In pursuance of these objects the Fund shall have the following powers:'
'(1) Bring together in conference and work in liaison with representatives of voluntary organisations, government departments, local and other statutory authorities and other individuals' [Have they done this? I don't think so]

'(2) Take out membership of such organisations as are considered to be in the interests of and compatible with the objects of the Fund' [Have they done this? How can we know when they won't let us join?]

'(3) Arrange and provide for or join in arranging and providing for the holding of meetings, lectures, classes, training courses, seminars and exhibitions' [Have they done this? I doubt it very much]

'(12) Cause to be prepared and printed, or otherwise reproduced and circulated, free of charge or for payment, such papers, books, periodicals, pamphlets or other documents or films or recorded tapes as shall further the objects.' [Really? I've never heard of a pamphlet. No website either. Google WADF or any variation and all you'll find is this thread, glib reassurances from Mr Gunn at WAFC in 2001, and a couple of other sites where people have complained about it. Oh, there was a thing in the Groat in 2006 about a £3m complex, but of course it was just more talk.]

So that leads me to the conclusion that WADF have NOT been abiding by the terms of their constitution. Even after being investigated by OSCR. I wonder if the OSCR are aware of this?

And it got me thinking: It seems that as our friends (who have been unable to make any progress at all in ten years) would rather explode than let anyone else join and have a say, they may be tempted to dissolve it rather than suffer the shame of defeat and having someone else get their sticky paws on 'their' cash. This is what their constitution says:

'13. Dissolution
Dissolution of the Fund shall require a two-thirds majority of those members present at a general meeting called to consider such a motion.

In the event of dissolution of the Fund, any assets remaining thereof after meeting all liabilities shall not be distributed amongst members of the Fund but shall be given to such other Caithness charity or charities with similar aims and objects as the members of the Fund by a simple majority shall determine.' [But what members are there? Why can no-one else join? Does that mean that our self-electing committee of 'honorary officers' can once more do as they please?]

So what Caithness charities with similar aims and objects (providing a sports complex for Wick and environs, primarily football themed) are there that could use £135 000 of our money? ;)

[Alice in Blunderland]

So that leads me to the conclusion that WADF have NOT been abiding by the terms of their constitution. Even after being investigated by OSCR. I wonder if the OSCR are aware of this?




Erm let me see now, let me think ................mmmmmm yip I think OSCR will now well and truly be aware of this as they are also following this thread are they not ?? :confused

[Phill]

I was just having a wee drift through the constitution of the Fund that's 'Working for the benefit of the community'. It struck me that, other than operating a membership bar, they've been following the terms of their constitution (the Governing Document that the OSCR bases its assessment of a charitiy's performance) so we can't really complain about them.
But look...

'3. Powers
In pursuance of these objects the Fund shall have the following powers:'
'(1) Bring together in conference and work in liaison with representatives of voluntary organisations, government departments, local and other statutory authorities and other individuals' [Have they done this? I don't think so]

'(2) Take out membership of such organisations as are considered to be in the interests of and compatible with the objects of the Fund' [Have they done this? How can we know when they won't let us join?]

'(3) Arrange and provide for or join in arranging and providing for the holding of meetings, lectures, classes, training courses, seminars and exhibitions' [Have they done this? I doubt it very much]

'(12) Cause to be prepared and printed, or otherwise reproduced and circulated, free of charge or for payment, such papers, books, periodicals, pamphlets or other documents or films or recorded tapes as shall further the objects.' [Really? I've never heard of a pamphlet. No website either. Google WADF or any variation and all you'll find is this thread, glib reassurances from Mr Gunn at WAFC in 2001, and a couple of other sites where people have complained about it. Oh, there was a thing in the Groat in 2006 about a £3m complex, but of course it was just more talk.]

So that leads me to the conclusion that WADF have NOT been abiding by the terms of their constitution. Even after being investigated by OSCR. I wonder if the OSCR are aware of this?

And it got me thinking: It seems that as our friends (who have been unable to make any progress at all in ten years) would rather explode than let anyone else join and have a say, they may be tempted to dissolve it rather than suffer the shame of defeat and having someone else get their sticky paws on 'their' cash. This is what their constitution says:

'13. Dissolution
Dissolution of the Fund shall require a two-thirds majority of those members present at a general meeting called to consider such a motion.

In the event of dissolution of the Fund, any assets remaining thereof after meeting all liabilities shall not be distributed amongst members of the Fund but shall be given to such other Caithness charity or charities with similar aims and objects as the members of the Fund by a simple majority shall determine.' [But what members are there? Why can no-one else join? Does that mean that our self-electing committee of 'honorary officers' can once more do as they please?]

So what Caithness charities with similar aims and objects (providing a sports complex for Wick and environs, primarily football themed) are there that could use £135 000 of our money?

And I thought it was just me who wasn't getting it.:confused

"...by associating with the.....inhabitants in a common effort....to provide facilities..."

"Bring together...and work in liaison with...individuals"

Cool! So......why not?:~(

From my point of view we have an organisation with good great intentions, seemingly operated by a small group of committed individuals who have obviously given a huge amount of their time over the years. They have put in a lot of time and effort to raise the £135,000.00 or so they have, they should be applauded for their efforts, this is no small sum of money.

But, I can't understand what is now happening?! Okay there has obviously been something going on somewhere, people making 'noises' or dare I say 'mischief' but this has been cleared apparently by the OSCR so it's all tickety boo and business as usual...no?

It has stalled, ran out of steam, lost direction, lost ideas and.....dare I say it, lost public confidence.
So why the refusal of new members?

How about a challenge?
I reckon with all the publicity this is generating there is a fantastic opportunity, get some new members on board, get some new ideas, sing from the rooftops about what the end goal is and monopolise on all the publicity and aim for £200,000 by 2012.

:cool:

[Alice in Blunderland]

How about a challenge?
I reckon with all the publicity this is generating there is a fantastic opportunity, get some new members on board, get some new ideas, sing from the rooftops about what the end goal is and monopolise on all the publicity and aim for £200,000 by 2012.

:cool:

Quite achievable given that there is already a substantial amount of money in the bank. There are various funds which can now be tapped into which can match the amount already raised. :)

[Tubthumper]

Alice, Phill, you're quite correct that even greater sums can be accessed using the existing money as leverage. Also that great efforts have been made to raise the cash, which (as I've said from the start) should be lauded.

But I maintain that WADF needs new blood to give fresh impetus and an improved public face.

Anyway, nothing in the post from them yet. :roll:

[Corrie 3]

I think I might write to them and ask them where they have this money banked and what kind of interest rate they are getting on it.
Do you think they would reply and disclose that information?
Even at the low rate at the moment it should be bringing in a fair few pounds in interest if they have it banked at the right place!!

C3...:(

[Happy Guy]

I was just having a wee drift through the constitution of the Fund that's 'Working for the benefit of the community'. It struck me that, other than operating a membership bar, they've been following the terms of their constitution (the Governing Document that the OSCR bases its assessment of a charitiy's performance) so we can't really complain about them.
But look...

'3. Powers
In pursuance of these objects the Fund shall have the following powers: etc etc.....' ;)

Good point, but, the way this is worded, it seems that it only gives them the POWERS to do these things if they so choose, I don't think it places any OBLIGATION on them to actually do it?
My main concern and one that I would hope OSCR would be concerned about too, is that in any charity, the Trustees have a legal duty to:
a) Protect the Charities funds, and by just sitting on the money (quite a large sum) in a bank account, for a number of years, money is lost if the maximum interest income is NOT achieved, then they fail in that duty
b) To further the Objectives of the Charity, as defined in their charter. Well, I cannot see how having that money siting somewhere doing nothing achieves ANYTHING! So again they fail in that duty also.
These two things are the principle and over-riding duties of the Trustees of any charity, and carry a legal responsibility

[Tubthumper]

Corrie3, Happy Guy youse are correct. Because the interest rate is incredibly low (and looks like remaining so for a time yet) many charitable funds are being hit by the income drop.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11265144

The fund in the report exists to dish out money to provide sporty coaching. 'Our' Fund (the WADF) exists to ensure... what?? :eek:

To fund a feasibility study into a sports complex? With £135k available and nothing even planned since 2006?

Our money should be out there doing good, not stuck in a bank doing nowt but making an arrogant, self-perpetuating 'committee' feel good about itself! :mad:

Committee members; stop letting yourself be bullied, consider what people are thinking. Why not just allow new members to join? Maybe something will finally get done, and you could look good in your community's eyes!

[Tubthumper]

I think I might write to them ... Do you think they would reply ... ?

Probably just to let you know that they're not actually seeking to divulge any information at this time.

If you're lucky they'll keep you on file until that changes. Hah!

[Alice in Blunderland]

I think I might write to them and ask them where they have this money banked and what kind of interest rate they are getting on it.
Do you think they would reply and disclose that information?


C3...:(

There is no harm in writing to them and asking these questions. A stamped addressed envelope would help. :D

[Phill]

I've been out of the county for a few days so obviously missed the updates.

I take it now membership has been opened up and there is to be a public meeting announcing the next stages of the funds expansion and global domination!




:confused

[Alice in Blunderland]

I've been out of the county for a few days so obviously missed the updates.

I take it now membership has been opened up and there is to be a public meeting announcing the next stages of the funds expansion and global domination!




:confused


Ehhhh I don't get it are they letting new members in ? :eek: Have i had too many glasses of wine tonight.

[DeHaviLand]

Ehhhh I don't get it are they letting new members in ? :eek: Have i had too many glasses of wine tonight.

No :( Yes :Razz

[Phill]

Apologies all, obviously dreaming again!!



:~(

[Alice in Blunderland]

No :( Yes :Razz


Oh I was allowed it was my Birthday ;)

[Alice in Blunderland]

Apologies all, obviously dreaming again!!



:~(


Whhheeeeeww I thought I had too much vino [lol]

You had me scrolling back through the messages to see if someone had posted that they had received a reply saying new members were being considered.

[DeHaviLand]

Oh I was allowed it was my Birthday ;)

Congratz, hope it was a good one :D

[crayola]

It crossed my mind yesterday that the Org seems to be run in much the same way as WADF. But the difference is that the Org provides a service to the community and is a privately owned thing as opposed to a charity and it's not sitting on more than £100K of money donated by the public. And that makes all the difference.

[Tubthumper]

Just got back, raked through the heap of mail expecting at least something from WADF...

Nothing. Nowt. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Hee-haw.

Two weeks have passed, not even the decency to write back saying 'Get stuffed, mind your own business!'.

OK. I asked a series of reasonable questions about WADF's lack of progress, membership policy, attitude to the community, repeated re-election of the same faces to the committee (and refusal to let anyone else have a say), and on having a thug as chairman.

Methinks the gloves must come off now...

[Tubthumper]

There is no harm in writing to them and asking these questions. A stamped addressed envelope would help. :D
Although it gives me a pain in my heart to say it, I very much doubt you'll get a response.


There is money that needs to be used, and plenty of uses it could be put to...
The present committee haven't a clue what to do...
Although there are plenty of people who want to join and help...
But the present committee have it all sewn up so no-one else can join...
There is money that needs to be used...

We're stuck in an endless loop. :mad:

[sandyr1]

Some Countries have in place a system whereby, money taken in by an Organizationn under an exemption of Taxes, must use a portion of said money within a 'certain period of time'.
If that isn't done they an lose their 'Tax Deductible'' status.
There must be something that you can do....
It doesn't seem feasible that people can run lotteries etc. etc., for years and just sit on that money and not use it for some purpose related to that which it collected for.
Come on you smart people of Kaitness, get the Charitable Trust Act or whatever it is called, and 'peruse' it for the answer....
I know with us that I think 30% of tax receiptable money taken in, MUST be used within a certain time!
Just a thought as you guys sleep......Regards.....s

[pat]

No replies yet from OSCR (the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator) but I did get emails in reply to my two requests for them to check specific things about this charity - emails from OSCR said they would be looking into the matter of this charity - did say they would be replying probably within 28 days,but it could take up to 3 months - will have to get chasing OSCR as WADF do not appear to be answering anyone.

Wonder if WADF are answering OSCR and if they are not what will the Regulator do?

I surmise if they do not answer OSCR in the specified time and the answers do not satisfy the regulators, some folk will be investigated thoroughly by our local boys in blue as well as OSCR - and the investigation will not just be this past couple of years but go right back to the start of the fundraising charity, Wick Academy Development Fund - think there will be a few folk manufacturing bricks at the moment at the thought of everything becoming clear to the folk in Wick area.

[Tubthumper]

There must be something that you can do....
It doesn't seem feasible that people can run lotteries etc. etc., for years and just sit on that money and not use it for some purpose related to that which it collected for.
Come on you smart people of Kaitness, get the Charitable Trust Act or whatever it is called, and 'peruse' it for the answer....
A good point Sandy. It appears that, for all their sneaky behaviours, broken promises, lack of movements, ignorings of community opinion, threatenenings in the street, refusals to give money, and complete ineptitude, the WADF haven't actually done anything wrong in the eyes of the OSCR and relevant Acts!

It needs effort from concerned people in the community to raise the stakes and (from the look of recent input to the thread) many of us have found our interest has moved on. That, along with ignoring requests for information, is one of the ways a crew like this can carry on sitting on our dosh and acting in their arrogant, contemptuous manner.

It's not just down to a few of us banging away on here for the general entertainment of the populace: all you concerned citizens out there need to do your bit if your actually care about this.

Send an e-complaint to OSCR, contact our Councillors, MP and MSP, post on here but whatever you do, after 35 000 views (the most popular thread on here in years) DON'T let the WADF become just another 'Hah! they were dealing with it but they didn't get anywhere, typical' issue.

[ducati]

think there will be a few folk manufacturing bricks at the moment at the thought of everything becoming clear to the folk in Wick area.

Good, we will need them to build the new stadium and leisure facilities.

[cuddlepop]

Did anyone see notification of an AGM advertised in May anywhere?


If they say they called one then they had to advertise it locally,usually its done here in the Free Press.

Can the locals call an EGM or can that only be done by the "silent committee?

Far to many questions left unanswered to wait till May next year and as they say they called an AGM then their accounts till April 2010 must be done and a copy requested.:confused

As pat said silence may be because there all to busy.;)

[Tubthumper]

... and the investigation will not just be this past couple of years but go right back to the start of the fundraising charity, Wick Academy Development Fund ...

Was that when the current Chairman of WADF (you know, the thug who got found guilty of threatening people that used to raise money for 'his' fund) was 'leading' the local Highland League football team down the pan?

Do you mean around 2000, when the WADF was first established using the Football Club's name, apparently to raise funds for a stadium for the Football Club?

Where the then Chairman of the Football Club (the thug) apparently only released funds under duress to save the Football Club he was 'leading' from closing down?

Where the members of the Football Club were dismayed to find they were unable to join their own Development Fund as the Chairman of their Football Club & his Friends managed to set it up to keep anyone else from joining and having a say?

Wasn't that just before the Football Club had to have a Putsch to get rid of their rubbish Chairman and Secretary, who were failing totally at running a Football Club, but succeeding in raising loads of money (under very dubious pretences) for the Football Club? The same Football Club which, despite appeals and enquiries by OSCR, wasn't allowed to get near the money or even stop the WADF from using the name to raise even more money?

Yes, I think it was.

I wonder if the Act which was set up to make it simple to raise money for good causes is turning out to be a godsend for fast-talking committee people. Or if the OSCR's seemingly 'hands-off' approach means that achieving results with a fund comes a long way behind not upsetting the fundraisers.

Welcome back from your break Pat! :cool:

[Tubthumper]

Did anyone see notification of an AGM advertised in May anywhere?
There's only the 'famous five' on the committee, they can circulate the agenda & minutes between themselves however they wish. And no-one else gets to see what they decide to do.

Can the locals call an EGM or can that only be done by the "silent committee?
It needs 6 members to call an EGM. There are only the 'famous five' on the committee at the moment, no ordinary members ('vacancies'). I asked how many ordinary members there are, who was at the AGM, when the last time they accepted new members was - surprise surprise I got no reply.

They won't let anyone join their fund. Or know what they're doing. But then again, it's hardly surprising; if we got information, it wouldn't be a secret club, and ego massage would be difficult.

Thing is, there are decent folk on the committee, they just don't seen to be able to get anywhere. I wonder why?

[sandyr1]

I dunno people..I think you have much at fingertips..The Media, I mean 'real madia'. The locals ones don't usually want to push local people as they are more community based, and everyone knows each other.
When some of these 'tabloids' start doing the 'foto thingy, and Television start pushing Mikes in people faces, it does seem to bring people to their senses. There is nothing like 'peer pressure' and media support to bring the best and worst out in people.
And you have your political masters to assist you/ remember they depend on 'voters' to keep them in employment.
I realize that Caithness.Org is well read, BUT it is a small fish the scheme of things. You all seem to be committed to make this 'community money', help the community, as that was the intention all along.
In addition......As an 'outsider looking in'......I think each and every one who posts on this issue should be somewhat careful of their 'personal comments'. It can come back to haunt one.
Just some personal thoughts!
Keep up the good work!......................s

[Tubthumper]

Slight deviation here. I was down Oban way last week, and passed Lochgilphead Joint Campus, which is a big school complex serving a small town and rural area. It looks pretty smart, (apart from the gym roof which blew off before it was even opened!). I took a few pictures but the phone-cam's gone mad so I can't post them. :roll:

Anyway, it's got a massive outdoor sports area in front, all-weather pitches etc. and I thought it was a decent indication of what can be done with school/ community sporting facilities (although there isn't a stadium that I could see.)

If there is no hope of WADF managing to organise a stand-alone facility, no chance of any reconciliation between the WADF and WAFC to allow development of a stadium and complex around the Club (as the fund was originally intended, and what most people want), and no way in the short term that we will be allowed to help the project move forward, then perhaps improving or adding to the proposed school-based facility is the best we can hope for after all.

Just so long as the Football Club get the use of it and the money we donated doesn't end up paying for something that was originally in the Council's scope.

[Tubthumper]

Away back in the depths of this thread, Katarina suggested the Bignold Park as a location for a sports complex. I think there were still questions over ownership at the time, but forgetting about the High School location issue (which has only appeared relatively recently) I just had a moment of wondrous confusion...

Why didn't the WADF committee consider Council-owned land for their sports complex? The Bignold Park is for the use of the community, and it would have seemed a sensible option, don't you think? It would have attracted support in kind (donation from the HC?) and been in a very suitable position. Rather than the single (privately owned?) piece of land that they pursued (and lost) it seems to me that publicly-owned ground would have been a far better idea right from the start. Can anyone enlighten us on why that didn't happen? :confused

[W.A.D.F. (SC032787)]

Why didn't the WADF committee consider Council-owned land for their sports complex?
Where have you been for the past few months? Not being a Weeker you will have no concept of the fact that us Weekers want the Bignold Park to remain as is...as was...end of story!! Obviously WADF being Weekers are thinking the same way to...

[Alice in Blunderland]

Obviously WADF being Weekers are thinking the same way to...


Just want to point out something but .........

OBVIOUSLY WADF being a a group fund raising for and on behalf of the people of East Caithness would be glad of the extra offers of support from members of the public .......

would OBVIOUSLY be willing to support and help develop sporting clubs/groups throughout the county.......

Also they would OBVIOUSLY want to be as open and frank with said public to gain as much confidence as possible in their group and their actions !

If they were......... :roll:

then OBVIOUSLY there would never have been any need for this whole sorry thread and resulting fiasco.

I think if one thing this thread has highlighted is the OBVIOUS contempt that the WADF seem to hold some Weekers in. ;)


who knows maybe the bit of land that was being looked at for a stadium may have been Bignold Park and thats why there is such secrecy surrounding which bit of land it was !

[WICKER10]

Just want to point out something but .........

who knows maybe the bit of land that was being looked at for a stadium may have been Bignold Park and thats why there is such secrecy surrounding which bit of land it was !

The bit of ground Gunn was looking at and in talks for was at The bottom of Newton Hill opposite to where the Radio Station Gates were.
It belongs to the estate and is still available for sale i am told.
Gunn had plans to sell of Harmsworth Park or so he said to give Wick Acd the best ground in the North

[Tubthumper]

Where have you been for the past few months? Not being a Weeker you will have no concept of the fact that us Weekers want the Bignold Park to remain as is...as was...end of story!! Obviously WADF being Weekers are thinking the same way to...
Obviously, why didn't they bother contacting the Council about ANY bit of land?? Was it arrogance? Or did they want to have a setup that no-one else could have a say in the running of?

Bignold Park is a sports area already; Rather than lose the opportunity for a stadium altogether, why not have it there? And do you speak for all Weekers? Maybe you could get the committee to make another statement on here letting us know, what they've been doing while ignoring us. And what's the general feeling among Weekers about the WADF/ WAFC situation? Maybe you could follow up your post this time, the last time you posted about the councillor that spoiled the WADF's plan but you didn't come back.

If WADF ever manage to get a facility in place, I wonder what the conditions for getting to use it will be, and how much they will charge us?

Edit - By the way, can you tell me what the criteria for being a Weeker are? I think I may have Wick in my blood.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Edit - By the way, can you tell me what the criteria for being a Weeker are? I think I may have Wick in my blood.

Nah dinna believe you ,you are going to have to prove that one ! [lol] [lol]

Is it born, bred and brought up in Week ? :confused

[Tubthumper]

Is it born, bred and brought up in Week ? :confused
Who are you calling 'it'? :lol:

[John Little]

POI.

Judicial Review in Scotland

"Judicial review is the procedure whereby the exercise of a delegated discretionary decision making power is examined by a court so as to ensure that the power has been properly exercised for it's lawful purpose1. In general terms the court will intervene where the person or body which has been given the power fails to act when it is required to or when it makes a decision it ought not to have made when acting properly within the terms of the mandate given to them. The remedy is only available in the Court of Session".

http://www.jonathanmitchell.info/uploads/Judicialreview.pdf

[Tubthumper]

POI.

Judicial Review in Scotland

http://www.jonathanmitchell.info/uploads/Judicialreview.pdf

So that's like getting a neutral person or referee involved, to look at the issues and direct on what needs to happen?

I see your point, but surely if there could just be more sensible people involved in the decision-making process there would be a better chance of getting the community onside and actually going in the right direction with the money we donated.

[John Little]

Look - it's not my community so I won't say what I really think in detail.

But Charles 1 was accused of erecting, as I believe I have said before, an arbitrary and unaccountable power.

This is not admissible in a democracy. This is what the courts are for.

Judicial review, as I understand it, is a no-blame situation, and to avoid splitting your community grievously, it seems to me to be the best option. Judge's recommendations are binding I think. But I am no lawyer so you need to ask one.

I am not saying that you should pick the tab up either. This money was raised by the community for community purposes. It is of legitimate concern to your community representatives - if it is not, then what is the purpose of having them? If the council is not interested in something involving such a sum, and of such division and strife in the community, then it should be.

I do not, though again I am no expert, see why you should not approach a councillor and ask them if the council's law officers could look this over pro bono publico.

Failing that, you may have, on the Org somewhere, an ambitious young solicitor who might do it, again, pro bono - though that's a long shot.

Do you have a citizens' advice bureau in Wick? That's another course....

Judicial review is not a hostile procedure I think. It is a referee process.

It's just a pity that it seems necessary.

Do you think it has to go that far?

[veekay]

John Little, I see from another thread that you are planning a trip up. Perhaps you could be an independant reviewer of this whole sorry, decidedly fishy ( possibly illegal) affair. Midges would be the least of your worries!

Only a suggestion;)

[Alice in Blunderland]

Do you think it has to go that far?


I would say that it possibly would have to go this far. :(

[John Little]

Hm.

"The objects of the Fund shall be to promote for the benefit of the inhabitants of Wick and its environs without distinction of sex, sexuality, political , religious or other opinions by associating with the local statutory authorities, voluntary organisations and inhabitants in a common effort to advance education and to provide facilities, or assist in the provision of facilities , in the interest of social welfare for recreation and other leisure - time occupation so that their conditions of life may be improved."


http://www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexDetails.aspx?id=SC032787

Associating with.......

common effort.............




The Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 gives OSCR the power to make inquiries into apparent or alleged misconduct in charities; bodies that are connected to or controlled by charities; and bodies that are not charities but are represented as charities.

What OSCR deals with
OSCR can only investigate complaints where it has the legal power to do so. We can make inquiries into cases where:
the trustees are not acting in accordance with the governing document or charity law
it appears that misconduct in the charity may be putting assets at risk
the charity's income is not being used for its stated charitable purposes
the way in which the charity is administered is detrimental to its beneficiaries or causes served
an organisation is calling itself a charity when it is not.

http://www.oscr.org.uk/Howtocomplainaboutacharity.stm

[John Little]

Hypothetical question.

If an organisation is registered as a charity and has a set of objects published on the charity regulator's website, if it appears to not fulfil those objects....is it still a charity?

And if this does appear to be the case, does not the regulator have a statutory duty to investigate?

https://www.oscr.org.uk/ComplaintsForm.aspx


Complainer's Name (note that OSCR will accept anonymous complaints but may be restricted in the action that can be taken):

[John Little]

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2005/en/aspen_20050010_en_1


http://www.barprobono.org.uk/

http://www.advocates.org.uk/FLSUwebsite/agencies_flsu.html

http://www.hmitchell.co.uk/pdfs/Role_of_Charity_Trustee.pdf

[sandyr1]

[quote=John Little;765113]Hypothetical question.

If an organisation is registered as a charity and has a set of objects published on the charity regulator's website, if it appears to not fulfil those objects....is it still a charity?

And if this does appear to be the case, does not the regulator have a statutory duty to investigate?

https://www.oscr.org.uk/ComplaintsForm.aspx

Yes JL.. I again agree with you. If something is set up to enhance, and has not fulfilled those objectives, then is it a charity?
Perhaps people from the Wick area, form a committee to investigate why this money is not being used for the proposed objectives..
It can be a number of 'concerned citizens' who get together as they are concerned. Appoint a spokesperson and bring your concerns to Council. It will be noted in Council Minutes and then let them ignore it if they wish. Then on to the Media if need be. I am sure once this 'ball' get rolling you will have all sorts of support!
There would be no need to slag anyone, just a fact finding committee.
And I would suggest that perhaps this Thread be abandoned, as some of the comments by some stragglers are not useful to your cause!
BTW...Not addressing you Tubs...you seem to be the driving force here.
The 'community' could be generally updated here but personal opinions etc are not worthy of such a good cause.
Again, obviously..............I am not within your community but methinks I was buying tickets for this on my trips back over the past years.
I feel that once 'outed', this 'charity' can become good for all involved....
BTW...These are personal opinions and thoughts.
Ohhhhhhhhhhh....you also have Bill Fernie...he may not want to get involved but as a Councillor he must also satisfy his constituents....I am sure he will be 'onside', with good advice.

[pat]

Post has been today - no answers yet - not only that the mail plane has obviously not made it in either.

Answer from OSCR should not be far in coming

[Tubthumper]

I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.

Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).

So, no further information being given, and it's obviously all MY fault. :confused

[Corrie 3]

I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.

Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).

So, no further information being given, and it's obviously all MY fault.
Really Tubs,
You weren't expecting a civil answer from them were you?
We all know they are locked in their little circle and wont let anyone else in, I am also getting fed up of anyone asking questions being branded a "Troublemaker".....As far as I can see there are only 5 people who are troublemakers, they are the ones that have took public money and doing absolutely nothing with it. They have no plans as what to do with it and no plans to increase these funds to a sizeable level. What else are we to think but that these people have something dishonest to hide IMHO !!
Until they come up with a solution I will always think of them in this way, what else can I do?...Trust them??????....I dont think so!!

C3....[disgust][disgust][disgust]

[Metalattakk]

I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.

Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).

Let's not forget that it is a crusade entirely of their own making. If they'd simply accede to the simple requests given appropriately, then this would all be over, done and dusted, and everyone would be happy chappies. Unless there is indeed something to hide...

So, as they're obviously unwilling to enter into any dialogue with mere mortals and the very people who have donated to this fund, where can we go from here?

Time to escalate this whole sorry matter. I suggest involving people that they cannot ignore simply because they don't like the 'tone' of the questions asked.

John Thurso, Jamie Stone, the OSCR, the media, etc. Let's see the WADF refuse to answer their questions.

[veekay]

I got a letter from the WADF secretary, scolding me for putting my letter onto this forum.

Also because I've posted several passages from the WADF constitution, and am waging an online crusade against them, he won't be answering my questions (which he didn't like the tone of).

So, no further information being given, and it's obviously all MY fault. :confused


They have obviously been getting their own way for far to long and like naughty children when they are finally taken to task they don't like it. I hope this letter won't put you off Tubthumper or put anyone else off either, the whole thing needs to be sorted. Perhaps if I write I might hear something different - yeah!

[Tubthumper]

Perhaps if I write I might hear something different - yeah! Go for it Veekay! Although our chums will probably claim you're part of the same online crusade, to deflect attention away from themselves. But the OSCR must have cottoned onto the fact that a lot of people want action. 37 000 views and counting, that's an awful lot!

But the bottom line is that they made promises, we contributed money, they've failed to deliver for ten years. And they STILL refuse to listen to their community, or let anyone else have a say. :confused

[Tubthumper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-11436406

Now I'm not saying that we could have £32m worth up here, but look at the scheme for the Halkirk centre.

Ten years of bloody-mindedness on the part of a clique determined to do things their way or nae way. And where have we got? No centre and no plan. Too little cash to do anything and no possibility of raising any more because people won't contribute.

But of course, it's all OUR fault! :(

[veekay]

Go for it Veekay! Although our chums will probably claim you're part of the same online crusade, to deflect attention away from themselves. But the OSCR must have cottoned onto the fact that a lot of people want action. 37 000 views and counting, that's an awful lot!

But the bottom line is that they made promises, we contributed money, they've failed to deliver for ten years. And they STILL refuse to listen to their community, or let anyone else have a say. :confused


OK I will do that. I am sure they will appreciate the concern of another member of the community!

[pat]

obviously no letters in the post for any of us from WADF or OSCR - wonder when we will be getting answers, must be very very soon.

[katarina]

This is just plain ridiculous! bring them out and string them up I say! Turn them upside down and shake them till all them thousands fall oot o their pockets! seriously, I don't see how this can be allowed to go on.

[pat]

well said Katarina

Have you sent your questions to OSCR? Do it all legal and above board, OSCR are already looking into this committee, how it is run and where the money is going or has it m ay have been spent.
I am (one of many folk I am sure) who have got in touch with OSCR to ask them to investigate this committee, what they are doing with the monies they have collected through the years, why this committee will not answer questions put to them by the folk who helped raise the monies by buying tickets or selling them.
This committee MUST be made to be held fully accountable for their actions, be fully accountable to the folk in the community who raised this funds.

Even if it is one query about a charity OSCR have to investigate but I think OSCR will have more than one person asking questions on this particular charity.

[Tubthumper]

John Thurso, Jamie Stone, the OSCR, the media, etc. Let's see the WADF refuse to answer their questions.
They managed to treat Jamie Stone's request for information with a degree of contempt. Their 'letter' of response was too long for the Groat. But, being supremely arrogant, rather than edit it down as suggested by the paper (to make it readable, and as any normal charity committee would do) they split it up and put it on the org, making us suffer the horror of trying to decipher the rantings, vitriol and half-truths.

The difficult part is always waiting for the official response...