Between a rock and a hard place

[changilass]

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1719392

Let's hope its sorted soon.

[upolian]

That really is shocking :S hope this gets sorted!!

[golach]

What a disgrace!!!!!!!!!![disgust]

[Gronnuck]

What a shocking way to treat trained workers in this day and age [disgust].

[Kodiak]

I agree it is a disgraceful situation and should never have happened.

In the report by P&J they say that the workers can not seek other work and are not entitled to any benefits.

This I do not understand as later in the article it says that they were informed "that our P45s are in the post."

If their P45's were in the post, then as soon as they receive them they would be able to seek other work and or claim benefits.

[changilass]

Yup, they can apply for other work now that their p45's are in the post.

I think some of this was written on the Thursday, which was when they first got word of what was happening (just 24hrs before they were due their redundancy payments).

I think its that in the time between friday (when Nuvia discharged them) and monday (when DSRL said they weren't taking them on) when they presented for work they could not have gotten a job and would not be eligible for any payments.

[upolian]

I agree is is a disgraceful situation and should never have happened.

In the report by P&J they say that the workers can not seek other work and are not entitled to any benefits.

This I do not understand as later in the article it says that they were informed "that our P45s are in the post."

If their P45's were in the post, then as soon as they receive them they would be able to seek other work and or claim benefits.

Very good point!!!

So how is this possible not being able to claim benefits?Would there insurance cover there mortgage payments because they have been paid of?

[changilass]

Not everyone has mortgage payment insurance.

If you have a rudundancy package that is very good and would cover the mortgage no problems, then paying on top for insurance seems a waste of time.

No one was to know this was going to happen.

TUPE usually works straightforward or kicks in at the tribunal stage after redundancy has been paid. This is a very unusal situation.

[Commore]

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1719392

Let's hope its sorted soon.

I thought, this sort of thing was against the law, I mean I thought, in the very least they would have been entitled to some notice, even if only a week.

I despair for these people, the thought of not getting up for work is devastating for some people, but the fear of losing their homes I imagine must be terrifying too.

A terrible state of affairs.

[Murdina Bug]

I really feel sorry for these guys. As I see it, from the limited facts available, it's their employer (Nuvia)who is at fault and is giving them false hope by pushing the TUPE angle. If Nuvia had a contract to supply workers that was coming to an end then it is up to them to either try to renew the contract or redeploy the staff. As they can't do either of these then they have declared them redundant. It's the way it works.

What's making it hard for the folks involved is probably that they have worked at Dounreay for a long time and see themselves as equal to the DSRL workers. Unfortunately, when you are in a batch of workers that gets sold to other companies you lose a lot of status that is not realised until it is too late.

[Dynamic Sounds]

From what I read from this Nuvia had a contract to supply workers to do certain tasks, and when the contract came to an end, these tasks are now being done by Dounreay themselves.

From what I have read over the years, if work is still to be done (whether it be washing a floor or safety surveillance as is the case here) it doesn't matter if the work is given to another company or taken back in house as it seems to have happened here, TUPE applies and the workers in situ, as these guys were, MUST be offered jobs with the new company.

As said above, lets hope it is resolved for these guys soon.

[Lucy]

I agree it is a disgraceful situation and should never have happened.

In the report by P&J they say that the workers can not seek other work and are not entitled to any benefits.

This I do not understand as later in the article it says that they were informed "that our P45s are in the post."

If their P45's were in the post, then as soon as they receive them they would be able to seek other work and or claim benefits.

I spoke to one of the workers today. As of this afternoon no P45 has arrived. (postie delivered other mail but nothing from NUVIA OR DSRL) No P60 has arrived and No Wage slip for their last months regular pay.

No P45 means no unemployment benefit, and also means that they cannot prove that they have been made redundant in order to claim mortgage protection.

the P60 should have been included with the last months wage slip and no wage slip means they cannot even check that the last wage they did get is correct.

This smells of some numpty sitting in an office playing with the workers lives and not giving a monkey about them.

[Nacho]

This smells of some numpty sitting in an office playing with the workers lives and not giving a monkey about them.

why couldn't the bean counter from 'Human Resources' have planned for them turning up and have their P45 etc ready for them to take away and get things sorted with benefits and mortgage insurance asap.

[changilass]

Maybe because the 'bean counter' is based down south.

You have to remember that up till 24 hrs earlier they were planning on paying the redundancy money, so no one would have been desperate for a p45.

[oldmarine]

Sounds bad to me. These workers got what is known as 'the shaft.'

[charlie]

"No P45 means no unemployment benefit"

False!
Make the claim NOW either by phone or online.

You wont get an appointment for a few days anyway even then you DON'T need to provide a P45 to make a claim for JSA.

[Boozeburglar]

What a sad crack this is.

To think of how much of our money went to prop up this industry, and now the one thing it did of any good is being undone in this manner.

Shameful.

[adi1]

I would like to comment more on this but I work for one of the companies involved.
Let's just say we all paid for DSRL's last bout of major pay off''s big time ££

[Boozeburglar]

It has been a never ending suck suck on the common teet for Dounreay.

Get ready for more treatment like this if the Tories get back in.

[Murdina Bug]

From what I read from this Nuvia had a contract to supply workers to do certain tasks, and when the contract came to an end, these tasks are now being done by Dounreay themselves.

From what I have read over the years, if work is still to be done (whether it be washing a floor or safety surveillance as is the case here) it doesn't matter if the work is given to another company or taken back in house as it seems to have happened here, TUPE applies and the workers in situ, as these guys were, MUST be offered jobs with the new company.


That seems to be the point that Nuvia are making but it's not necessarily so. Depends on how the contract was set up.

Transfers covered by the Regulations
The Regulations apply when an undertaking or part of an undertaking is transferred from one employer to another.
An example of transfer is:
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif where a contract to provide goods or services is transferred in circumstances which amount to the transfer of a business or undertaking to a new employer.
Transfers not covered by the Regulations

The Regulations do not apply to the following:

http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of a contract to provide goods or services where this does not involve the transfer of a business or part of a business;


I think second scenario is the one which is DSRL's point of view. Either way if the contract was up for review then the Employer, Nuvia, should have entered into communication with the workers long before they did.

[horseman]

Me ,not able to comment on the contractual rights an wrongs,but comes across as a right pigs ear!