View Full Version : Brown labels woman a ‘Bigot’ after questioning him on the economy and immigration
It seems that Gordon Brown doesn’t rate democracy or the opinions of the public very highly since this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm) happened today. :confused
Gillian Duffy questioned him about a number of issues including the cost of addressing the national debt and immigration from Eastern Europe. Mrs Duffy was subsequently labelled a bigot by the PM. :eek:
So what does that tell us about Gordon Brown?
IMHO his attitude does nothing for the Labour campaign - he's a prize prat.
I'll tell you what it does do. Loses the media forever the opportunity to mic him up again. Publishing or transmitting this, is a great smoking hole in their foot.
I'm no fan of Gordon Brown, it could have happened to any of them.:eek:
I can't believe this, he is at her house now apologising in person :eek:
cuddlepop
28-Apr-10, 15:24
I can't believe this, he is at her house now apologising in person :eek:
I think he's wasting his breath,damage has been done.:(
Even if she accepts his apology the Labour party have been damaged by this unguarded opinion.
What a blooming fuss over not very much! Have we not all done something like that? Yes, he is in the public eye but he is human! Yep - score one for the media again!!!
When you are in such a Public Position as G. Brown you must be on guard 24/7 and watch everything you do and say, even if you think you are private. Yes he was careless but this does open the question, what is his opinion of all the normal People out there that do the voting and how many times has said something like this, but has never been recorded.
I know some people say he is only human but this has nothing to do with humanity, but it has to do with letting his True feelings out and what he really thinks of the voters.
On saying that I would like to hear what Cameron and Clegg really think of the voters as it could be interesting.
What a blooming fuss over not very much! Have we not all done something like that? Yes, he is in the public eye but he is human! Yep - score one for the media again!!!
Of course it is a coup for the media. However does it not alarm you that this man labels someone as a 'bigot' when she raises legitimate questions in public? Or are you of the opinion that we should ignore these concerns in the hope that they will go away?
I am fairly sure, Kodiak, that they would be saying much the same!!! I am sure tho that they are both loving this and rubbing their hands with glee!
BTW I have no political affiliation! I think they are all lying gits!
I think they are all lying gits!
I'll second that emotion. Yet they're all we've got to choose from when we go to the polling station next week. That's democracy for you! :confused
The Oracle
28-Apr-10, 16:18
However does it not alarm you that this man labels someone as a 'bigot' when she raises legitimate questions in public?
Was it her questions that made her a 'bigot' or was it her responses to what he replied?
Can you tell us where the comments this lady made are reported.
Was it her questions that made her a 'bigot' or was it her responses to what he replied?
Can you tell us where the comments this lady made are reported.
Follow the link in Gronnuck's first post - the coloured and underlined "this" - all the info is available in links there!
Have any opinion on immigration these days and youre immediately branded a racist. Fact.
Was it her questions that made her a 'bigot' or was it her responses to what he replied?
Can you tell us where the comments this lady made are reported.
Details are here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649448.stm) although the exchange appears to have been edited. It's not quite as I saw it first time round. I fear wifie is right the media have scored big time and they are milking it for all its worth. :confused
Have any opinion on immigration these days and youre immediately branded a racist. Fact.
Racist! :Razz
The Oracle
28-Apr-10, 16:33
Follow the link in Gronnuck's first post - the coloured and underlined "this" - all the info is available in links there!
Thanks for that, found the video link.
A spirited Lady who speaks a lot of sense.
The Oracle
28-Apr-10, 16:45
..and (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/elections/talking-elections-post/post/talking_election/25/comment-the-attack-on-brown-is-hypocritical.html) it rumbles on !
One thing that this incident shows is that politicians "walkabouts" are all orchestrated and fake.
"PM: That was a disaster. Should never have put me with that woman ... whose idea was that? "
I am fairly sure, Kodiak, that they would be saying much the same!!! I am sure tho that they are both loving this and rubbing their hands with glee!
BTW I have no political affiliation! I think they are all lying gits!
Agree with you there.
Have any opinion on immigration these days and youre immediately branded a racist. Fact.
Another true quote
Have any opinion on immigration these days and youre immediately branded a racist. Fact.
It depends on what your opinion is. Irrespective of whether you like it or not, you have to accept the fact that we live in a global multi cultural society. Fact
One thing that this incident shows is that politicians "walkabouts" are all orchestrated and fake.
"PM: That was a disaster. Should never have put me with that woman ... whose idea was that? "
Someone called "Sue" it seems..
This just shows me how boring the campaigning has been to date. The media have been praying for a gaff like this because they are bored rigid with the economic discussions.
Well done Gordie, for handing it too them on a plate.
Incidently the reason the lady hasn't come out of her house yet to talk to the media again is:
a) not enough money on the table
b) the Secret Service shot her in the head
c) not enough money on the table
It depends on what your opinion is. Irrespective of whether you like it or not, you have to accept the fact that we live in a global multi cultural society. Fact
Indeed we do live in a global multi cultural society but that doesn't preclude us from discussing its merits or otherwise. There are people who have genuine concerns about their community’s ability to cope with the influx of people from other parts of the EU. The concerns of people in Peterborough was highlighted recently here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7574773/Migration-is-ruining-our-peaceful-city-say-Peterborough-councillors.html) People even had Eastern European squatters living in their garden sheds!
Surely this is all the more reason to discuss the issue instead of dismissing it in the name of political correctness?
Boozeburglar
28-Apr-10, 19:34
Seemed a lovely lady.
Brown's remarks were not so bad. He was talking about how she came over and was not inaccurate.
He did not seem angry, just disappointed.
I might have said much worse in the circumstances.
Seemed a lovely lady.
Brown's remarks were not so bad. He was talking about how she came over and was not inaccurate.
He did not seem angry, just disappointed.
I might have said much worse in the circumstances.
Are you saying that anyone who questions the issue of immigration is now a bigot?
Are you saying that anyone who questions the issue of immigration is now a bigot?
I think it was more about her obvious 'attitude' about the immigration of "flocks" of eastern Europeans. Can't imagine them wanting to settle in Rochdale though-awful place:Razz
Boozeburglar
28-Apr-10, 19:48
Are you saying that anyone who questions the issue of immigration is now a bigot?
If that is what I wanted to say I would have.
I have no need to be 'guarded'.
Nor does Gordon, we want honest politicians right?
Classic case of foot in mouth....shame it was n't Foot and Mouth as then he would have been quarantined or better for the duration!
With apologies to farmers.
If that is what I wanted to say I would have.
I have no need to be 'guarded'.
Nor does Gordon, we want honest politicians right?
Yes, we want honest politicians but we also want politicians who can address the constituents' legitimate concerns without denigrating them.
Boozeburglar
28-Apr-10, 20:07
Yes, we want honest politicians but we also want politicians who can address the constituents' legitimate concerns without denigrating them.
Well it is questionable whether his remarks were fair.
I don't see how his personal private remarks expressing concern for how things may have gone are an indication of any lack in his ability to address legitimate concerns.
He was perfectly polite to her, she just talked over him.
Greenrunner
28-Apr-10, 20:14
When I listened first time I mistook her phrase "where are they flocking from!" and heard something completely different! Would have made it slightly nastier.
equusdriving
28-Apr-10, 20:15
I think that the media have made a mountain out of a molehill, if any one really believes that any MP from any party agrees with every constituent and that there is any MP that hasnt made similar and probably a lot more offensive comments in private are kidding themselves
But i agree he was very careless for saying it with a mic on
I thought the 'interview' went well although he could have explained his policies in more depth. He did manage to placate Mrs Duffy, but then to label her a ‘bigoted woman’ was an enormous gaffe, which for many indicates his real feelings towards the public.
Boozeburglar
28-Apr-10, 20:37
I thought the 'interview' went well although he could have explained his policies in more depth. He did manage to placate Mrs Duffy, but then to label her a ‘bigoted woman’ was an enormous gaffe, which for many indicates his real feelings towards the public.
It could not be clearer that these were his feelings about one encounter with one individual.
Haweswater
28-Apr-10, 20:43
Whilst not a supporter of Gordon Brown, I suspect that the unfortunate affair has been blown (as usual) by the media out of all proportion.
Whilst his comments were clearly at odds with the friendly persona he displayed before getting into his car, it should be borne in mind that what was said was done so in private.
It was simply bad luck that his microphone was still switched on.
We are all guilty to some degree of another of venting our frustration behind closed doors.
In any case, the electorate of the country are not so stupid as to be influenced by one 'off-the-cuff' remark made in private. Surely the track record of Mr. Brown's administration will prove more damaging!
I think it was more about her obvious 'attitude' about the immigration of "flocks" of eastern Europeans. Can't imagine them wanting to settle in Rochdale though-awful place:Razz
Rochd'l is a fine place, 'specially the A627 southbound!
'Tis a very multicultural place, spent a little while working there, some of my colleagues found it a little scary though.
[quote=Phill;, some of my colleagues found it a little scary though.[/quote]
I found that woman a bit scary, reminded me of my M.I.L.
Respect to GB though for having courage to go back and face that dragon, or was it a choice of going back to apologise to her, or sharing a hotel suite with "Mandy"
or sharing a hotel suite with "Mandy"
A touch of the old homophobia coming back there m8, I would have thought "Mandy" and yourself would have been bosom buddies :roll:
Hogfather
29-Apr-10, 10:25
I thought the 'interview' went well although he could have explained his policies in more depth. He did manage to placate Mrs Duffy, but then to label her a ‘bigoted woman’ was an enormous gaffe, which for many indicates his real feelings towards the public.
Perhaps it just indicates his feelings towards 'bigoted women'? PS, I have no idea whether the wifie is a bigot or not, I don't care enough about it to listen to the clips etc. Shame politicians are 'not allowed' to let us know what they really think!
Boozeburglar
29-Apr-10, 11:30
A touch of the old homophobia coming back there m8, I would have thought "Mandy" and yourself would have been bosom buddies :roll:
It is the guy's nickname widely used and as far as I am aware it is based on his surname.
I can think of a few reasons I would prefer not to spend time with him, none of which relate to his sexuality.
;)
It is the guy's nickname widely used and as far as I am aware it is based on his surname.
I can think of a few reasons I would prefer not to spend time with him, none of which relate to his sexuality.
;)
It is a well known that "Mandy" is the New Labour version of Michael Portillo, who during his time at Westminster was often called the most loathed and hated politician (and this was from his own party)
I did like his train journey programme though
porshiepoo
29-Apr-10, 12:51
What a load of fuss over a load of nothing!
Perhaps the womans opinions gave Gordon Brown reason to believe that she is a bigot and if that is how she came across then he shouldn't be hounded just because he actually called her it.
I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations.
Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British.
If anyone called me a bigot on this particular subject I personally wouldn't give a monkeys uncle.
I know that my opinions don't stem from any prejudice against any other race or culture, I just also know that the UK needs to get border control under control :confused.
Bigot is just a word, if someone chose to call me that because they don't like my opinion I really wouldn't give a stuff.
Least he had the bottle to apologise in person. Though why he felt the need to is beyond me. If you don't want to be called a Bigot then don't speak like one.
northener
29-Apr-10, 12:59
The woman was talking emotive cobblers. Gordy was a damn sight more polite to her than I would have been. I'd have told her to shove her narrow-minded, ill-informed opinion up her jacksey.
If that's how your average 'lifelong Labour voter' views the world, then I'm suddenly beginning to warm to Uncle Gordy if he talks about them all like that.:Razz
Boozeburglar
29-Apr-10, 13:20
It is a well known that "Mandy" is the New Labour version of Michael Portillo, who during his time at Westminster was often called the most loathed and hated politician (and this was from his own party)
I did like his train journey programme though
Ironically I would vote for Portillo in a hearbeat if he joined a decent party.
Cannot ever see Mandy turning the perceptions of him around so neatly.
:)
The Drunken Duck
29-Apr-10, 13:29
Blimey.
Who knew so many people cared what a fat useless slack jawed gawking incompetent knacker like Broon thought about anything ??
You learn something every day .. :D
Boozeburglar
29-Apr-10, 13:32
Blimey.
Who knew so many people cared what a fat useless slack jawed gawking incompetent knacker like Broon thought about anything ??
You learn something every day .. :D
Crikey! Until I read Broon I thought you were talking about me!
Anyway, you will get splinters on that fence!
:)
Blimey.
Who knew so many people cared what a fat useless slack jawed gawking incompetent knacker like Broon thought about anything ??
You learn something every day .. :D
I always thought that his ambitions for power would probably be curtailed once people were actually asked to vote for him :lol:
Blimey.
Who knew so many people cared what a fat useless slack jawed gawking incompetent knacker like Broon thought about anything ??
You learn something every day .. :D
It was quite sickening watching him groveling to the lady because it was obvious he was only doing so because he realised he had blown the chances of Liebour getting re-elected. It would be interesting to find out what pressure was put on this old lady. It is also interesting that she has not made any further comments. Good old Gordon "Stalin" Brown has shown his true colours yet again.
I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations.
Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British.
What a disgusting attitude you have, you almost make me ashamed to be human. You are so hypocritical it is untrue, do the charities that you claim to be fundraising for know your beliefs?
I trust that if one of these "current leeches" wanted to donate to your cycling holiday next year, you would refuse their help?
Incidentally, I have still not received a reply from the commercial promoters of this jaunt to China, confirming how much money is actually being donated to
"Women for Women"
Perhaps you will enlighten us
What a load of fuss over a load of nothing!
Perhaps the womans opinions gave Gordon Brown reason to believe that she is a bigot and if that is how she came across then he shouldn't be hounded just because he actually called her it.
I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations.
Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British.
If anyone called me a bigot on this particular subject I personally wouldn't give a monkeys uncle.
I know that my opinions don't stem from any prejudice against any other race or culture, I just also know that the UK needs to get border control under control :confused.
Bigot is just a word, if someone chose to call me that because they don't like my opinion I really wouldn't give a stuff.
Least he had the bottle to apologise in person. Though why he felt the need to is beyond me. If you don't want to be called a Bigot then don't speak like one.
Well said porshiepoo - we need more like you putting their views across.
These wishy washy sandal wearing pseodo pc Liberals make me want to spew and they even have the affrontery to accuse you of bigotry. :D
Boozeburglar
29-Apr-10, 17:57
We cannot simply stop taking in those in need. That would be inhumane.
However, I admire you Porshie for saying whatever comes to mind and damn all who disagree.
Shame Gordon Brown did not have the guts to tell the media to do one, maybe more of us would be on his team right now.
I think we need to begin border control for Scotland so we can be sure to let in the needy that we need, and keep the relocators from Englandshire sitting on their piles rather than selling up and spreading their bigoted ways across our land.
There is a good reason that in all my travels being Scottish has been a huge advantage.
equusdriving
29-Apr-10, 18:13
I think we need to begin border control for Scotland so we can be sure to let in the needy that we need, and keep the relocators from Englandshire sitting on their piles rather than selling up and spreading their bigoted ways across our land.
Oh really so would that work both ways as twice as many Scots live south of the Border as English north of it !!!!!!!
I may be wrong but was it not The Broon or one of his team who was recently quoted saying something like "British jobs for British workers".
Is there an unspoken message in that statement :roll:
I think we need to begin border control for Scotland so we can be sure to let in the needy that we need, and keep the relocators from Englandshire sitting on their piles rather than selling up and spreading their bigoted ways across our land.
You mean like this disgusting rant:
I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations.
Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British.
It could not be clearer that these were his feelings about one encounter with one individual.
Maybe, but she asked the question that a lot more people than herself are asking.
You mean like this disgusting rant:
I think Anfields views might differ slightly if they lived in Slough, Peterborough, Luton , Bedford, Burnley etc etc etc.........
porshiepoo
29-Apr-10, 20:10
What a disgusting attitude you have, you almost make me ashamed to be human. You are so hypocritical it is untrue, do the charities that you claim to be fundraising for know your beliefs?
I trust that if one of these "current leeches" wanted to donate to your cycling holiday next year, you would refuse their help?
Incidentally, I have still not received a reply from the commercial promoters of this jaunt to China, confirming how much money is actually being donated to
"Women for Women"
Perhaps you will enlighten us
And what an absolute load of pigs do do that you talk.
If you're ashamed to be human I would suggest that it has more to do with your own intolerances than that of mine.
If I choose to call illegal immigrants 'leeches' then that is my perogative to do so, after all they do 'leech' off the leniancy and of the Uk and the absolutely rubbish immigration policy we have that allows these people access in the first place.
Incidentally I am not calling immigrants in general leeches, only those that are here illegally and who are happy to stay here illegally rather than go home or go through the proper channels (such as they are).
What the frack has my fundraising got to do with my immigration beliefs? What an absolute load a verbal diarrhea spewing forth from you. Be careful man you might just choke on it.
I really do not imagine that any illegal immigrant or 'LEECH' as I choose to call them is going to bother putting anything monetary back into the country by way of sponsorship. Do you!
Incidentally I'm raising funds to help women scientists specialise in research affecting women and their babies.
However, should you feel the need to inform the charity that one of their fundraisers has immigration views in way of ridding the country of all illegal immigrants and having strong entry policies from hereonin, go ahead. I wait with baited breath for the refusal of my fundraising that I'm sooooo sure will follow. NOT!
As for the amount of money from sponsorship that goes to women for women I do believe I told you in my last pm to you after you asked for that bloomin information. Still, I guess you're hoping to do some stirring on this issue again aren't you!
So although I cannot remember the amount of the top of my head, it's approximately 3/4 of the sponsorship raised that actually goes to the charity and the rest is used for flights etc. HOWEVER as I told you before, most of us are actually fronting the travel costs ourselves so that 100% of the money raised goes to the charity.
Does that satisfy you?
Jaunt to china? Who's jaunting? Certainly not me. I'm training bloody hard to complete a 450km cycle ride in 5 days. I'm training most days and entering as many runs as I can to help with fitness.
I will be supplying all my own equipment, paying all my own visa and insurance costs, on top of the travel costs to make sure that all sponsorship goes to charity.
porshiepoo
29-Apr-10, 20:13
We cannot simply stop taking in those in need. That would be inhumane.
However, I admire you Porshie for saying whatever comes to mind and damn all who disagree.
Shame Gordon Brown did not have the guts to tell the media to do one, maybe more of us would be on his team right now.
I think we need to begin border control for Scotland so we can be sure to let in the needy that we need, and keep the relocators from Englandshire sitting on their piles rather than selling up and spreading their bigoted ways across our land.
There is a good reason that in all my travels being Scottish has been a huge advantage.
Scottish border control. That's a good one. If Scotland turfed out all those "relocators from Englandshire" (who are here legally incidentally ;)) then Scotland would be one empty place.
Boozeburglar
29-Apr-10, 20:40
Sounds good! ;)
northener
29-Apr-10, 20:44
Sounds good! ;)
Any more o'that me lad and I'll set me whippet on you.
Somebody's got to edjercate you s,otherwise you'd all still be living in turf huts and painting your arses blue.:cool:
Boozeburglar
29-Apr-10, 20:51
I had mine tattooed.
I think we need to begin border control for Scotland so we can be sure to let in the needy that we need, and keep the relocators from Englandshire sitting on their piles rather than selling up and spreading their bigoted ways across our land.
An' burn 'em at the steak! Bloody incomers!
Should be ok for my hols for a visitors pass. Live in Dundee Street. :cool:
equusdriving
29-Apr-10, 21:17
An' burn 'em at the steak! Bloody incomers!
Oh really so would that work both ways as twice as many Scots live south of the Border as English north of it !!!!!!!http://forum.caithness.org/images/misc/progress.gif
northener
29-Apr-10, 21:37
I never realised the font size could go so big on this site.........;)
Ah think tha's bit, Equus.:Razz
An' burn 'em at the steak! Bloody incomers!
On a plate with chips and mushrooms is it :Razz
An' burn 'em at the steak! Bloody incomers!
Err...............:Razz
On a plate with chips and mushrooms is it :Razz
Aye, never post on forums when hungry.
Err...............:Razz
Err nothin' you..............oh..............ahh.............. oh bügger :eek:
keep the relocators from Englandshire sitting on their piles
Simple solution:-
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/41KubVybeL_SL500_AA280_.jpg
An' burn 'em at the steak! Bloody incomers!
I take it you dont like incomers ? How about me ? I'm moving north from Invernessy ..... ;)
Bartlett Boy
29-Apr-10, 23:45
i dont know if this is right response but there is and can be a lots of discrimination to immigrants which i dont agree with as any british resident can work in euro union and all want that far back they help us stay free from nazis a lot of pilots in battle of britain were polish and i for one welcome them etc there hard working and have good ethos
Boozeburglar
30-Apr-10, 00:24
Agree 100%
Agree 100%
Me too but what about the Pole tax? :eek:
Aaldtimer
30-Apr-10, 04:12
Me too but what about the Pole tax? :eek:
That would be the Poll Tax ducs!
It astonishes me the ranting against immigrants on here , considering the amount of countries the Scots have emigrated to in history!:confused
i dont know if this is right response but there is and can be a lots of discrimination to immigrants which i dont agree with as any british resident can work in euro union and all want that far back they help us stay free from nazis a lot of pilots in battle of britain were polish and i for one welcome them etc there hard working and have good ethos
Agree with that except that I suspect most Brits in Europe are either working or living off their savings and are not a drain on the host nation and claiming for every thing which I suspect they wouldnt get anyway.
I think Anfields views might differ slightly if they lived in Hucknall, Slough, Peterborough, Luton , Bedford, Burnley etc etc etc.........
I was born and bred in Liverpool, does that not count?
Liverpool is a true multicultural city, where people of all nationalities and beliefs have lived in harmony with each other since immigration began.
You will just have to get used to the idea that we live in a multicultural world.
The British Institution has, for is not Mr Windsor a Greek? and check out the ancestors of Mrs Windsor
Not forgetting that if fate had not intervened, the future kings of England would have had a Muslim, Egyptian step father!
And what an absolute load of pigs do do that you talk.
If I choose to call illegal immigrants 'leeches' then that is my perogative to do so, after all they do 'leech' off the leniancy and of the Uk and the absolutely rubbish immigration policy we have that allows these people access in the first place.
Incidentally I am not calling immigrants in general leeches, only those that are here illegally and who are happy to stay here illegally rather than go home or go through the proper channels (such as they are).
If you have children I just hope that you are not self educating them and that they have the opportunity at school to learn more about the beauty of life, and not the distorted myopic view that you seem to have.
Calling immigrants "leeches" does leeches a disservice, they perform a number of service to mankind, and have been shown to have 32 brains i.e. 32 more than you.
As your cycling holiday has nothing to do with this thread I will not comment on it, other to say that when I receive information from the organisers I will start a new thread on this subject
whaligoechiel
30-Apr-10, 16:19
You will just have to get used to the idea that we live in a multicultural world.
The British Institution has, for is not Mr Windsor a Greek? and check out the ancestors of Mrs Windsor (or should you not have said Mrs Hanover)
Totally agree the royal family are a bunch of foreigners and sponge of the state so deport them
Maybe Phil will lend his country men some of the money he has saved sponging of us to help bail them out
porshiepoo
30-Apr-10, 17:54
If you have children I just hope that you are not self educating them and that they have the opportunity at school to learn more about the beauty of life, and not the distorted myopic view that you seem to have.
Calling immigrants "leeches" does leeches a disservice, they perform a number of service to mankind, and have been shown to have 32 brains i.e. 32 more than you.
As your cycling holiday has nothing to do with this thread I will not comment on it, other to say that when I receive information from the organisers I will start a new thread on this subject
For someone that has called me a "sad and horrible person" you're doing a pretty good job of showing your own hatred and intolerance of others too.
I actually use the word 'Leech' rather carefully in this subject.
Yep, Leeches can and do have their uses, as do some immigrants. However, the illegal immigrants suck the life blood of this country pretty much the same as a Leech would to the human body. Maybe they don't feed often but when they do they take in loads.
Like it or not, this country has a severe illegal immigrant problem, ignoring it won't make it go away and branding someone all sorts of names just because you don't like their views will not make it go away.
In fact, if you are so pro immigration in this country then you would think that you would be all for getting immigration under control and doing something about all the illegals we have here. If these steps were taken then there would be many more people more tolerant and accepting of foreigners coming in and setting up here.
As for the 'cycling holiday', don't worry about it. Should you feel the petty need to start a thread about it I will of course answer any questions you may have, though I dare say you won't get the kind of response from such a childish course of action that you are wanting.
So now put your toys back in your pram and go play with other mindless idiots of your nature. Go, shoo!
The Drunken Duck
30-Apr-10, 18:03
Anfield .. please .. stop .. :lol:
Liverpool a shining beacon of multiculturalism ?? .. please. I have only visited twice but on one of those occasions a coloured friend was racially abused by some locals. They then found out that he was not only a "coon" but a kickboxer too. Highly amusing, especially bit where I heard a shrieking scouse voice actually say "calm down !!" just before they got smacked so hard their family tree shook.
I don't know about Porshiepoo's brain power but I do know she has more balls than you in actually getting off her backside and doing something practical in pursuit of her belief's. Your last bit about "starting a thread" about it means what exactly ??, you are going to lay into someone doing a charity event ??, If so then sad doesn't even start to describe it.
If nothing else Gordon’s Gaffe has brought the issue of immigration to the fore and has perhaps allowed a debate. IMHO it is the lack of debate that has been the problem, not the immigrants.
There will be people who are concerned about the possible problems and view the immigrants in a negative light. I know many people in Peterborough have concerns and two councillors outlined them here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7574773/Migration-is-ruining-our-peaceful-city-say-Peterborough-councillors.html) but this is because the local infrastructure needs additional support which had been promised by central government and that has been slow to arrive.
The same thing happened in Glasgow at the beginning of the decade, the city agreed to accept a significant number of asylum seekers under the then ‘Dispersal Scheme’ and was promised help from central government which was slow to arrive and caused more than a few headaches for the then City Council.
A major stumbling block is the ban on asylum seekers working. Among the people seeking asylum are significant numbers of qualified professionals who are not allowed to work until they secure the right to stay or ‘leave to remain’.
Of course we have some ‘freeloaders’ but they will be weeded out and returned to wherever they came from eventually.
With regards to the influx, or ‘flock’ of EU citizens coming into the country most of them are filling jobs that no Brits want or are filling vacancies that we need filling – Polish dentists are just one example.
As I see it we should be able to have a free and frank debate without reverting to name-calling.
However, the illegal immigrants suck the life blood of this country pretty much the same as a Leech would to the human body. Maybe they don't feed often but when they do they take in loads.
Like it or not, this country has a severe illegal immigrant problem, ignoring it won't make it go away and branding someone all sorts of names just because you don't like their views will not make it go away.
Porshiepoo I understand your concern but here are a few facts;
The majority of illegal immigrants are here because they ‘jumped the queue’ and found their way here through a variety of routes. Once here most will seek asylum.
The vast majority of asylum seekers are not allowed to work and are forced to rely on state support, which is set at just 70% of income support, (just over £40 per week).
Asylum seekers want to work and support themselves. Many do voluntary work while their asylum application is being processed.
Asylum seekers do not come to the UK to claim benefits. In fact, most know very little about the UK asylum or benefits systems before they arrive. (Home Office, Understanding the decision-making of asylum seekers (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hors243.pdf), July 2002)
Asylum seekers do not jump the queue for council housing and they cannot choose where they live. The accommodation allocated to them is not paid for by the local council. It is nearly always ‘hard to let’ properties, which other people do not want to live in.
Asylum seekers do not get special perks such as mobile phones and help to buy cars. They are also denied access to many of the benefits others rely upon, such as disability living allowance.
There were only 25,670 asylum applications to the UK in 2008. They have fallen by almost half over the previous five years.
If all the refugees and asylum seekers in Scotland gathered at Hampden football stadium, it would be less than 20% full.
The Centre for Discrimination and Equality at Strathclyde University or the Scottish Refugee Council will have more information should you be interested. ;)
The Drunken Duck
30-Apr-10, 18:36
I agree Gronnuck, but I have personally had the experience of being pushed out of a job so that it can be filled by a foreigner being employed at a far lower day-rate than I was on.
You make a good point though in that there just aren't the funds available to cope with the uncontrolled influx we have had under Labour. And that isn't going to improve in the current financial climate. And anyway since when are we responsible for everyone that pitches up here ??, I didn't realise that we had to take care of everyone who simply decides they want to live here. We are known as a soft touch and the majority of asylum seekers head here with a full knowledge of that. How many pass numerous other countries to specifically get here ??, I have no quarrel with people who want to come to Britian, integrate, work hard and make a better life for themselves. What I do object to are those who think we are a free meal ticket and a soft touch, and have to pander to their beliefs first and foremost. I personally find that offensive.
With respect though the Home Office and Scottish Refugee Council are going to paint Asylum figures in a favourable light though aren't they ??, I mean the Home Office does not know for sure just how many illegal immigrants we do have.
porshiepoo
30-Apr-10, 18:42
If nothing else Gordon’s Gaffe has brought the issue of immigration to the fore and has perhaps allowed a debate. IMHO it is the lack of debate that has been the problem, not the immigrants.
There will be people who are concerned about the possible problems and view the immigrants in a negative light. I know many people in Peterborough have concerns and two councillors outlined them here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7574773/Migration-is-ruining-our-peaceful-city-say-Peterborough-councillors.html) but this is because the local infrastructure needs additional support which had been promised by central government and that has been slow to arrive.
The same thing happened in Glasgow at the beginning of the decade, the city agreed to accept a significant number of asylum seekers under the then ‘Dispersal Scheme’ and was promised help from central government which was slow to arrive and caused more than a few headaches for the then City Council.
A major stumbling block is the ban on asylum seekers working. Among the people seeking asylum are significant numbers of qualified professionals who are not allowed to work until they secure the right to stay or ‘leave to remain’.
Of course we have some ‘freeloaders’ but they will be weeded out and returned to wherever they came from eventually.
With regards to the influx, or ‘flock’ of EU citizens coming into the country most of them are filling jobs that no Brits want or are filling vacancies that we need filling – Polish dentists are just one example.
As I see it we should be able to have a free and frank debate without reverting to name-calling.
I came here from a town called Boston. It was a lovely town when we first arrived and over the years it seemed to just get more and more populated by immigrants.
The immigrants themselves weren't necessarily the problem it was the way in which they were all housed in their own community and not intigrated with the local population.
We ended up with no go areas of non English speaking communities and many jobs were snatched from under us. Lincolnshire is well known for its agriculture and the jobs in that industry were what many of the locals had survived on for many years. Then the immigrants came along and were willing to work for pittance (not that I blame them for that). The gang masters took advantage, paid them pittance and boarded them 8 to a room in houses.
Eventually the Gangmasters were taken under control and some form of legislation was put in place but the damage had been done and the anti-immigrant attitude had set in. I'm not saying that's a right thing just the way it happened.
I guess people feel that they have no control on a government level so express their disgust and concerns at the immigrants in general.
I visited Boston a year or so ago and was absolutely gobsmacked at the rise in immigrant population. Spotting the Brit became a game.
I was also dismayed to find that 90% of the foreign till workers at the local supermarket could not carry out a sentence in English. Bizarre!
My own opinion of immigrants may instead stem from being assaulted and my kids (then babies) being threatened by our immigrant neighbour. This angst was compounded by the fact that he and his family were protected despite the fact that he had had to be moved several times for the exact same behaviour. It was so severe that his previous victim spent ages tracking us down just so that they could offer support if it went to court.
If this country is expected to live in harmony with immigrants then we need to be shown some forward movement in border control and entry proviso's and the amount of illegals here needs to be gotten under control.
It's fine if we're proud of a country that shows toleration to foreigners and welcomes them with open arms but if that comes at a cost of losing control of our own country then it just makes us stupid.
Drunken Duck and porshiepoo I understand your points and you have my sympathy. This is all the more reason why the subject must be discussed. For too long government at both local and national level have thwarted any discussion by labelling any views other than their own as 'racist'.
With Turkey's accession to the EU possible in 2013 over 62 million additional people may well have the right to move freely across the EU. We must at least have the government prepare for this.
IMHO we should be discussing the issue rationally at all levels of society.
Drunken Duck and porshiepoo I understand your points and you have my sympathy. This is all the more reason why the subject must be discussed. For too long government at both local and national level have thwarted any discussion by labelling any views other than their own as 'racist'.
With Turkey's accession to the EU possible in 2013 over 62 million additional people may well have the right to move freely across the EU. We must at least have the government prepare for this.
IMHO we should be discussing the issue rationally at all levels of society.
Make that 74 million.
As this thread has 'matured' into a do something about the immigration problem.
I have this to throw in. I've heard a figure of 80% of all immigration isn't. It is merely people from other EEC countries living and working here. Something that is set in stone in the EEC constitution. UK citizens can and do also take advantage of this. Fancy a job in Spain for the summer?
So the only immigration any gubberment can do anything about should they so wish, is from countries outside the EEC. 20%.
Personally I don't give a hoot how many immigrants settle in the UK, as long as they are not criminals or terrorists (we have enough already).
When we talk about overcrowded Britain, I don't get it. But I have never lived in a city, and never would. My experience is, therefore most of the UK is pretty empty.
I don't really understand why anyone lives in Wick or Thurso when there is cheap land and housing to rent or buy all over the county. Mind you I have never wished to live within a minutes travel time of work either. :)
Although I do now because I work from home:confused
porshiepoo I know Boston. One of my sons lives between Kirton Lindsey and Gainsborough. The changes right across Lincolnshire are quite startling and sometimes even scary!
I was born and bred in Liverpool, does that not count?
Liverpool is a true multicultural city, where people of all nationalities and beliefs have lived in harmony with each other since immigration began
Exactly, since immigration began. The UK is often, as Im sure youve heard, referred to as a mongrel nation comprising of peoples such as the Romans, Norse,Angles, Saxons,Celts, Huegenots, Jews etc etc and indeed we are. But the difference is, and its a big difference , is that theyve all come to the UK in dribs and drabs over hundreds(thousands?) of years and have integrated with the native population. The amount coming in now is a flood and a lot of them do not want to integrate into our society, in fact some actually want us to adapt to their lifestyle, religion and cultural beliefs and thats when the locals start to resent them. IMO.
Btw Is there any reason you added Hucknall to my post? Just curious thats all.
porshiepoo
30-Apr-10, 19:51
Exactly, since immigration began. The UK is often, as Im sure youve heard, referred to as a mongrel nation comprising of peoples such as the Romans, Norse,Angles, Saxons,Celts, Huegenots, Jews etc etc and indeed we are. But the difference is, and its a big difference , is that theyve all come to the UK in dribs and drabs over hundreds(thousands?) of years and have integrated with the native population. The amount coming in now is a flood and a lot of them do not want to integrate into our society, in fact some actually want us to adapt to their lifestyle, religion and cultural beliefs and thats when the locals start to resent them. IMO.
Btw Is there any reason you added Hucknall to my post? Just curious thats all.
Oooo, I checked your post out. You're right Anfield did add Hucknall to your list.
Coincidentally (or not) Hucknall is where I grew up. :roll:
Oooo, I checked your post out. You're right Anfield did add Hucknall to your list.
Coincidentally (or not) Hucknall is where I grew up. :roll:
Fame at last, youve got your own stalker.
porshiepoo
30-Apr-10, 20:17
Fame at last, youve got your own stalker.
Hey, maybe I should phone that new Stalker number. lol.
Crikey, it is all really rather sad isn't it. :lol:
I honestly don't know where Anfields dislike of me stems from but I'm pretty sure it's not just based on comments I've made on here.
Maybe I know him lol. Ooo that's just too spooky for words. :eek:
Btw Is there any reason you added Hucknall to my post?
Probably just someone with "Hucknall" better to do with their time ;)
John Little
30-Apr-10, 20:21
It does rather make you think. I read last week that London passed the 50% mark - just over 50% of Londoners were not born in the UK.
The Drunken Duck
30-Apr-10, 20:22
porshiepoo I know Boston. One of my sons lives between Kirton Lindsey and Gainsborough. The changes right across Lincolnshire are quite startling and sometimes even scary!
I used to be based at a big airfield near there too !! .. cracking part of the world. Many happy nights at the Magna Carta, the Roman Ruin and the Witch and the Wardrobe in Lincoln.
Is "Ritzies" still on the go ?? .. :D
I honestly don't know where Anfields dislike of me stems from but I'm pretty sure it's not just based on comments I've made on here.
I can assure you that it all stems from:
I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations.
Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British.
John Little
30-Apr-10, 23:03
That seems a rather slender thread to hang dislike from.
I wonder which bits you object to?
"I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too..."
Well that seems cool enough. One is allowed to have views.
'and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone'
This does not seem unreasonable to me - we have had rather porous borders these last 20 years or so, and with the population projected to rise to 70 million it seems not unreasonable that we should consider our groaning infrastructure.
" until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. "
Could it be this bit? Economic migrants do act as a drain to the economy if they are not within the system. It would be best surely that they were taxed and regulated, and that the undesirables amongst them should leave? Or maybe the word leech is too emotive? Certainly it is descriptive, and in some cases it does seem rather apt....
"Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations."
Again this does not seem unreasonable - I am sure, unless advised otherwise, that most countries have immigration controls...
"Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British"
The British are a multi-cultural people with roots from all over the world. Many of them are becoming very concerned by over-crowding in our housing stock, congestion on our roads, strains on our education system, strains on our benefits system etc
None of these concerns seem unreasonable.
What then do you find so objectionable?
Or is it just that the concerns were voiced?
Could it be this bit? Economic migrants do act as a drain to the economy if they are not within the system. It would be best surely that they were taxed and regulated, and that the undesirables amongst them should leave?
How can an immigrant who is "not within the system" be a drain?
If they are "not within the system" then surely they cannot claim benefit, get the best council houses, take our jobs, use the NHS, have affairs with our women, live next door to us, subsidise our holidays and all the usual rants we see on this forum.
I do agree with you that we should take steps to integrate these people into our society, then we would not have the obscene scenario of having trained doctors working on farms as labourers, whilst our own NHS is facing meltdown. Remember if it was not for the immigrants of the 1950/60s we would not have a National Health Service
I find it rather ironic that whilst most people will gladly give to various foreign charity appeals, that the same people can show so much hostility when the mere thought of an immigrant relocating to the UK, for a number of reasons, most of the time not their fault, is such an abhorrence.
Should we, as human beings, not help each other to ensure that people throughout the world, irrespective of race, can have the same rights as all other sentient beings?
Whilst doing some research on Mortality Rates, I came across a United Nations report of the mortality rate for infants. This varied from 2.9 per thousand in Iceland (pre volcano eruption) to an incredible 180.2 in Angola, that is 62 time more!!!. This is 2010 and we have put men on the moon, can eradicate 99% of diseases which kill livestock and yet we can allow such a difference in our own children’s futures.
Other figures from this report show that the UK(22)nd on list) has a rate of 4.8/1000, USA(46) 6.3/1000, Russia(81) 16.6/1000 and China(120) 20.3/1000
If we can allow, and thus condone the above, then it is a very sad world that we shall leave to our children
davlaurjen
01-May-10, 00:51
He got caught.Don't tell me the others are saints 24/7.His profile doesn't fit the young,slick ideal-type of a party leader,but he is the best man out of all of them.Vince Cable is the nearest rival he has in the ability stakes,but he also is probably less electable than young Mr Clegg.Personality politics is here with a vengeance.More's the pity.:(
John Little
01-May-10, 07:07
"How can an immigrant who is "not within the system" be a drain?"
More accurately of me I should have made a distinction between those who are part of the economy and those who are part of the so called 'black economy' who live in our society, use its infrastruture but pay no tax. Their presence also fuels crime because of those who exploit them.by paying peanuts, ignoring working hours and safety conditions.
Which undermines the legal labour pool.
And whilst benefit payments are not high, once an economic migrant or an asylum seeker is accepted into British society they still have to be housed, given benefits until they find work, given medical care etc.
And if you multiply that by the 100,000 a year for the last 13 years that Clegg was speaking of - well that seems to be an awful lot of money to me.
I live in the south east and my wife and I, for various reasons, are going to move next year. One of the reasons is clear - it is the incredible over-crowding everywhere you move down here. 250,000 people moved into Kent last year so our local paper said, over those who moved out.
We get water shortages, nose to tail traffic in my small market town - or everywhere you go. And so on. It's far less in Somerset...
"Should we, as human beings, not help each other to ensure that people throughout the world, irrespective of race, can have the same rights as all other sentient beings"
Probably we should, though many would argue not- but it doesn't mean that they have to come and live here.
Immigration raises legitimate concerns; race and religion are not, imho among them.
But it is, also imho, no sin to talk about it.
You could, I think, cut porshiepoo some slack.
the bold is not deliberate - seems to have switched itself on and I can't click it off.
Sigh - computers!
porshiepoo
01-May-10, 07:29
How can an immigrant who is "not within the system" be a drain?That question has answered itself don't you think.
Once they are here illegally and not within the system where do they live? what do they live on? do they pay taxes like everyone else? How much money does this country spend trying to curtail these illegals?
THAT is just a few ways in which they drain our country.
Should we, as human beings, not help each other to ensure that people throughout the world, irrespective of race, can have the same rights as all other sentient beings?It's a shame you can talk the talk but can't walk the walk. You spout off about rights and yet you show a terrifying intolerance to anyone who has different opinions to yours.
While I could care less about being branded a bigot, can you claim the same?
Whilst doing some research on Mortality Rates, I came across a United Nations report of the mortality rate for infants. This varied from 2.9 per thousand in Iceland (pre volcano eruption) to an incredible 180.2 in Angola, that is 62 time more!!!. This is 2010 and we have put men on the moon, can eradicate 99% of diseases which kill livestock and yet we can allow such a difference in our own children’s futures.
Other figures from this report show that the UK(22)nd on list) has a rate of 4.8/1000, USA(46) 6.3/1000, Russia(81) 16.6/1000 and China(120) 20.3/1000
If we can allow, and thus condone the above, then it is a very sad world that we shall leave to our childrenAnd a very sad world that we shall have to offer our children when people such as yourself try to hamper charitable events that are trying to raise money for research into those very issues.
Like I said, you can certainly talk the talk but it's all just lip service isn't it!
we have had rather porous borders these last 20 years or so, and with the population projected to rise to 70 million it seems not unreasonable that we should consider our groaning infrastructure.
Surely the infrastructure would benefit from more people living, working, paying taxes and being productive?
It really irritates me this view that immigrants don't contribute, of course they do, why in hell would the come here otherwise?
John Little
01-May-10, 11:36
"....paying taxes "
Exactly - yet there seem to be about 800,000 who ain't and when Clegg suggested an amnesty, accepting the situation and formalising it the tabloids went potty last week.
Surely the infrastructure would benefit from more people living, working, paying taxes and being productive?
But, if there are no jobs available, what happens then?
Boozeburglar
01-May-10, 14:19
There are plenty jobs, many of which no one here really wants to do.
There are plenty jobs
That was what I was going to say. When I lived near Edinburgh I knew loads of Poles, they all had proper jobs. A few examples IT, Retail management, Hotels and pubs, car mechanic, engineers, oil workers and one terrific gardener.
They didn't work cheaper than anyone else, any job they had was gained on merit.
The woman at the centre of a media storm after being called "bigoted" by Gordon Brown has said she will not be voting for Labour or any party. (So There!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656353.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656353.stm)
Love your quote ""You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." . Sir Winston Churchill"
Did you see the Documentary on Sir Winston, the other evening?
It was very good and gave a real insight into ther man behind the politics.
:)
Love your quote ""You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." . Sir Winston Churchill"
Did you see the Documentary on Sir Winston, the other evening?
It was very good and gave a real insight into ther man behind the politics.
:)
No did not see the Docu.. But Cometh the hour. Cometh the man. Hopefully this mention will not start a discussion, this is just my answer to you Commore, ref my Hero; Winston Spencer Churchill - warts and all..
"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat." With these words one man grasped the reigns of a nation in jeopardy.
The Nazi jackboot had stamped out freedom in Europe. A dark cloud had descended over the Continent. Hitler and the might of Germany had conquered all before them.
One man, one nation stood in the way of the Swastika and a thousand year Reich.
One nation stood alone against tyranny and oppression.
That man was Winston Churchill.
"You ask what is our policy. I will say, it is to wage war with all our might, with all the strength that God can give us, to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. "You ask what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory however long and hard the road may be. For without victory there is no survival."
First speech as Prime Minister, House of Commons, 13 May 1940.
Aaldtimer
02-May-10, 03:08
No did not see the Docu.. But Cometh the hour. Cometh the man. Hopefully this mention will not start a discussion, this is just my answer to you Commore, ref my Hero; Winston Spencer Churchill - warts and all..
"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat." With these words one man grasped the reigns of a nation in jeopardy.
The Nazi jackboot had stamped out freedom in Europe. A dark cloud had descended over the Continent. Hitler and the might of Germany had conquered all before them.
One man, one nation stood in the way of the Swastika and a thousand year Reich.
One nation stood alone against tyranny and oppression.
That man was Winston Churchill.
"You ask what is our policy. I will say, it is to wage war with all our might, with all the strength that God can give us, to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. "You ask what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory however long and hard the road may be. For without victory there is no survival."
First speech as Prime Minister, House of Commons, 13 May 1940.
Aye, fine words, as long as you're no the fellas that have to do the dirty work!
Safe enough in his bunker several feet down below the streets of London, with his big cigars and his copious supplies of booze!
"WE will fight on the beaches, WE will fight on the streets"...oh yeh, but include me out!
Dundee had the right o' the beggar ...and run him out of town![disgust]
Aye, fine words, as long as you're no the fellas that have to do the dirty work!
Safe enough in his bunker several feet down below the streets of London, with his big cigars and his copious supplies of booze!
"WE will fight on the beaches, WE will fight on the streets"...oh yeh, but include me out!
Dundee had the right o' the beggar ...and run him out of town![disgust]
Obviously my: "Hopefully this mention will not start a discussion".. I'm sorry I did not type this sentence slower, as it seems YOU don't read very fast (If at all - duh..) :confused
I dont know why your so sensitive to discussing Churchills greatness Bekisman. I'm not. I could never have voted for him because of his politics but Churchills greatness had little to do with politics and all to do with leadership at a time when the country was on the verge of collapse.
It's little short of ignorant to accuse Churchill of hiding in his bunker whilst the fighting was going on. Aaldtimers blast is just another attempt by someone with a personal agenda to change history. That doesnt mean Churchill wasnt protected whilst the ordinary Johnny did the fighting but neither does it mean Churchills part in the affair was any less than someone who gave their life for their country and for our freedom. He was a leader and as history has shown his leadership was instrumental in the victory. Anyone who denies that by condemning him for the more inhumane decisions he had to take at a time of war denies the truth of history. History cannot be changed, but, by nit-picking at the more extreme decisions taken at times of conflict, as we have seen on the org in recent months, people with an alternative agenda can change history to suit their own prejudices.
I think Churchill had done his bit for Queen and country as a young man.
What he did for this country in WW11 was something special and we will never see his like again.
The present crop of political parasites would not be fit to shine the boots of this man and his oratory will be remembered and quoted long after all of us here (and Caithness.org) are but a distant memory in the passage of time.
As I usually post pure rubbish on this forum please excuse me for getting serious just this once, but Winston Spencer Churchill is a special case. ;)
John Little
03-May-10, 17:57
Let us not forget Leonard!
porshiepoo
03-May-10, 18:42
I think Churchill had done his bit for Queen and country as a young man.
What he did for this country in WW11 was something special and we will never see his like again.
The present crop of political parasites would not be fit to shine the boots of this man and his oratory will be remembered and quoted long after all of us here (and Caithness.org) are but a distant memory in the passage of time.
As I usually post pure rubbish on this forum please excuse me for getting serious just this once, but Winston Spencer Churchill is a special case. ;)
Ah yes, but didn't he have some help from a man in a Blue Police Box and a new one eyed 'soldier'? ;)
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