View Full Version : For anybody on benefits read this
william53
13-Apr-10, 17:36
Once again, a bombshell that could cause huge financial hardship to tens of thousands of claimants has been dropped, virtually unnoticed, by a government minister.
The shock plans, for ‘simplifying’ the work capability assessment for employment and support allowance (ESA) include docking points from amputees who can lift and carry with their stumps. Claimants with speech problems who can write a sign saying, for example, ‘The office is on fire!’ will score no points for speech and deaf claimants who can read the sign will lose all their points for hearing.
Meanwhile, for ‘health and safety reasons’ all points scored for problems with bending and kneeling are to be abolished and claimants who have difficulty walking can be assessed using imaginary wheelchairs.
These changes, and many more, have already been approved by the secretary of state for work and pensions but have not yet passed into law. They will affect both ESA claimants and the 1.5 million incapacity benefits claimants waiting to be assessed for ESA.
Tubthumper
13-Apr-10, 18:10
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean that people will get an allowance based on what they can't do? And is designed to encourage people into work?
I don't see the problem if it's fairly and properly assessed.
Scarybiscuits03
13-Apr-10, 18:22
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean that people will get an allowance based on what they can't do? And is designed to encourage people into work?
I don't see the problem if it's fairly and properly assessed.
I agree, there are people out there that deserve to get an allowance and then there are others that are perfectly fit to work, not all jobs involve physical labour.
DeHaviLand
13-Apr-10, 18:22
Once again, a bombshell that could cause huge financial hardship to tens of thousands of claimants has been dropped, virtually unnoticed, by a government minister.
The shock plans, for ‘simplifying’ the work capability assessment for employment and support allowance (ESA) include docking points from amputees who can lift and carry with their stumps. Claimants with speech problems who can write a sign saying, for example, ‘The office is on fire!’ will score no points for speech and deaf claimants who can read the sign will lose all their points for hearing.
Meanwhile, for ‘health and safety reasons’ all points scored for problems with bending and kneeling are to be abolished and claimants who have difficulty walking can be assessed using imaginary wheelchairs.
These changes, and many more, have already been approved by the secretary of state for work and pensions but have not yet passed into law. They will affect both ESA claimants and the 1.5 million incapacity benefits claimants waiting to be assessed for ESA.
Obviously written by someone on benefits who has no intention of ever doing anything for themselves or ever trying to better themselves. Just someone who can work but doesn't see why they should. Its time this country rid itself of the spongers and scroungers who think the rest of the country owe them a living. Get them out to work, see how the real world copes.
Disclaimer:- rant caused by copious amounts of Highland Park. The writer takes no responsibility for any offence caused to spongers and scroungers. Neither does he care if they are offended!
Tubthumper
13-Apr-10, 18:44
My God DH, come down off the fence on this one, will you? :eek:
How did you manage to get Highland Parked at this hour!
DeHaviLand
13-Apr-10, 18:54
My God DH, come down off the fence on this one, will you? :eek:
How did you manage to get Highland Parked at this hour!
It was either the Highland Park or class A. As I'm a law abiding citizen, the HP had to die. It was all in a good cause thjo ;)
John Little
13-Apr-10, 18:54
DH is not wrong though. What sort of a country sets benefits at such a level that it pays people more to be on benefits than it does to work?
Or put it another way. Why should I get up at 6.00am, go to work and pay taxes to keep someone else, perfectly fit, in bed because work, in their opinion, does not pay enough?
The Social Security system introduced after 1945 created a huge class of mendicants, for ever importunate for alms; only in giving alms I have a choice. It also damaged the national character of the British in destroying all sense of self-reliance.
The original national insurance scheme of 1911 did not do that.
Tubthumper
13-Apr-10, 19:00
Much as I dislike quoting from our National Rags, what does the op think of these people?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html
Now I ain't got a gripe against people having kids, after all I was one myself, but I would say this isn't fair on me, the taxpayer.
John Little
13-Apr-10, 19:08
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! [evil]
DeHaviLand
13-Apr-10, 19:12
Hang im
Hang im
Hang im
Whoops, sorry, someone has the copyright on that
Maybe a good slap around the head then :roll:
Stack Rock
13-Apr-10, 20:39
A radical overhaul of the whole benefit system is long overdue. In many instances its all take, take, take and give me more, more.
Much as I dislike quoting from our National Rags, what does the op think of these people?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html
Now I ain't got a gripe against people having kids, after all I was one myself, but I would say this isn't fair on me, the taxpayer.
Wow. I've worked and often struggled for 35 years and once spent a whole 6 weeks on Job Seekers after I was made redundant. I scrounged the princely sum of, wait for it, £62 every 2 weeks! Now where is that Mercedes catalogue? :eek:
BishBashBosh
13-Apr-10, 21:41
i hav been workin since i could get my 1st part time job while at school and college! i am now 22 and 2 and a half months ago i had my son, i am on my own and now living with my parents! When i was looking at wat i was eligable for i found myself trying to look for what catagory i came under! Most of the credits and allowances are for people already claiming income support!
I am not saying i dont get anything but for someone who has been paying taxes since leaving education, Is it rite that i feel like iam struggling to start a good life for me and my son when these people get it handed to them?
Much as I dislike quoting from our National Rags, what does the op think of these people?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html
Now I ain't got a gripe against people having kids, after all I was one myself, but I would say this isn't fair on me, the taxpayer.
This IS form the April 1st issue ISN'T it?
BishBashBosh
13-Apr-10, 21:45
sorry for the few missing words haha, thats wat i get for doing to much all at once!
sorry for the few missing words haha, thats wat i get for doing to much all at once!
:lol: Really cool avatar BTW
BishBashBosh
13-Apr-10, 22:04
thank you it actully looks very similar to my own car except my car looks a bit of a wreck haha!
Much as I dislike quoting from our National Rags, what does the op think of these people?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html
Now I ain't got a gripe against people having kids, after all I was one myself, but I would say this isn't fair on me, the taxpayer.
Good grief ! That's shocking.
A radical overhaul of the whole benefit system is long overdue. In many instances its all take, take, take and give me more, more.
oh how true but that's the way the cookies crumbled.. Only fools work apparently.Even one's hard earned pension after a lifetime of work is taxed to keep the really nice yummy mummies who have the right to look after their brood until whenever.Why cant they be sent to work in charity bits until the lovely little darlings come out of school or go and help out here and there, clean some OP windows or that to earn a bob or two???????? However, who can blame them staying at home swanning about shoving the washing in the drier and Tesco ready meals for the brood. I am not quite retired nor am I on the vino just the soap box.
BishBashBosh
14-Apr-10, 00:21
oh how true but that's the way the cookies crumbled.. Only fools work apparently.Even one's hard earned pension after a lifetime of work is taxed to keep the really nice yummy mummies who have the right to look after their brood until whenever.Why cant they be sent to work in charity bits until the lovely little darlings come out of school or go and help out here and there, clean some OP windows or that to earn a bob or two???????? However, who can blame them staying at home swanning about shoving the washing in the drier and Tesco ready meals for the brood. I am not quite retired nor am I on the vino just the soap box.
isnt that a bit of a sterio type? i'am not agreeing with how the system works but your implying that a young mother on her own should work! Yes i agree to an extent but the hardest job to get just now is a perfect ,during school hours, job. 1st u have 2 wait 5 years for the child 2 go 2 school then find a perfect balanced job 2 give u perfect hours that r either under the amount so you still get some of your benifit or so many that you are earning enough to give your child the best start to life! this ofter means not seeing your child alot and having to account for child care costs as well!
i have seen both the types of mums and id have to say that the ones who really are trying are getting frownd apon with the same condemed look as the ones which u described.
i also like to think that all mother just want the best for their kids!
DH is not wrong though. What sort of a country sets benefits at such a level that it pays people more to be on benefits than it does to work?
Or put it another way. Why should I get up at 6.00am, go to work and pay taxes to keep someone else, perfectly fit, in bed because work, in their opinion, does not pay enough?
The Social Security system introduced after 1945 created a huge class of mendicants, for ever importunate for alms; only in giving alms I have a choice. It also damaged the national character of the British in destroying all sense of self-reliance.
The original national insurance scheme of 1911 did not do that.
I agree that it's totally and utterly WRONG. We are subsidising the whole country and the only way that we can climb out of the mire is to stop handing out money to folk who think they are entitled to it. Maybe then they will start using birth control and think of the consequences of their actions. There used to be three classes in British society - the upper class, middle class and working class. Now there are four, with the fourth being the idle class and the irony of this is that they want for nothing because the other three pay for it all. Whichever party has the guts to say, 'Enough'! gets my vote. They can start by stopping handing out houses to every young lassie who gets herself pregnant. If the parents had to take care of her and her offspring there would be a damn sight fewer of them around. Cut benefits to all except those who genuinely can't work and make everyone work for their living and maybe this country could be 'Great' Britain again.[evil]
The Social Security system introduced after 1945 created a huge class of mendicants, for ever importunate for alms; only in giving alms I have a choice.
Is there a prize for the most erudite sentence ever posted on the Org? If so, I nominate that one.
I'm not sure I agree with you mind. :lol:
I agree that it's totally and utterly WRONG. We are subsidising the whole country and the only way that we can climb out of the mire is to stop handing out money to folk who think they are entitled to it.
And its getting worse with less and less people having to subsidise more and more people. IMO you should get benefits for the first two children then after that youre on your own. As for illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers, well I'm not even going to go there.
riggerboy
14-Apr-10, 08:53
Hang im
Hang im
Hang im
Whoops, sorry, someone has the copyright on that
Maybe a good slap around the head then :roll:
oi just as well,
anyway yes i think that is flippin awful, pierpoint gallows please
altogether now
hang him hang him hang him high
hang him hang him hang him high
hang him hang him hang him high
hang him hang him hang him high
riggerboy
14-Apr-10, 08:57
. As for illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers, well I'm not even going to go there.[/QUOTE]
i will ship the lot o them back to where ever they come from with the same amount of money that they arrived with, then charge the (not masking a sweary word here by the way)
for the fare,
then can we please start a proper immigration process, that means they apply then if and only if they get the okay do they get in,
DeHaviLand
14-Apr-10, 09:21
isnt that a bit of a sterio type? i'am not agreeing with how the system works but your implying that a young mother on her own should work! Yes i agree to an extent but the hardest job to get just now is a perfect ,during school hours, job. 1st u have 2 wait 5 years for the child 2 go 2 school then find a perfect balanced job 2 give u perfect hours that r either under the amount so you still get some of your benifit or so many that you are earning enough to give your child the best start to life! this ofter means not seeing your child alot and having to account for child care costs as well!
i have seen both the types of mums and id have to say that the ones who really are trying are getting frownd apon with the same condemed look as the ones which u described.
i also like to think that all mother just want the best for their kids!
Good god, please forgive my hangover-induced rant.
Did it never occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you should have got your own life in order before you decided to add to an already over-populated world? You know, get educated, get job, progress up the career ladder, earn some money, have sprogs, give them the best start in life! Do you only honestly think that being a single mother dependant on state handouts is the best start in life. You are part of the reason that this country is in terminal decline. When I'm President of this country, there will be major changes. And the first of them is compulsory birth control, until you can prove that you're fit, able and willing to support your own children. Now I know thats a difficult concept for you, supporting your own children, but maybe it would be worth thinking about. :roll:
riggerboy
14-Apr-10, 09:35
Good god, please forgive my hangover-induced rant.
Did it never occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you should have got your own life in order before you decided to add to an already over-populated world? You know, get educated, get job, progress up the career ladder, earn some money, have sprogs, give them the best start in life! Do you only honestly think that being a single mother dependant on state handouts is the best start in life. You are part of the reason that this country is in terminal decline. When I'm President of this country, there will be major changes. And the first of them is compulsory birth control, until you can prove that you're fit, able and willing to support your own children. Now I know thats a difficult concept for you, supporting your own children, but maybe it would be worth thinking about. :roll:
weee bit heavy that chap true but a wee bit heavy for the thickos on here
If only the country was ruled by Daily Express/ Mail readers. All problems solved..................
Lets just call the elections off and issue vouchers for regular readers, first to 1000 is president.
I can see that there should be some form of benefits for certain people, but that these benefits should not discourage work. I also understand why some people may not want to be underemployed. Its not a black and white issue. That being said:
Before I went to University I use to work at a place that also handled training contracts for the Job Centre. Mostly people in the 18-24 range, who were on benefits for a year or more. Despite the fact these people got free training, help, advice and lots of one-on-one time, They resented the whole process. In their eyes we were keeping them from watching day time TV or whatever. I could sort of understand this position, if the person was in their mid fifties.
With any luck this won't become an extreme eugenics argument as I'm a fairly liberal guy - I don't mind people with kids on benefits or even people that have say one or two kids while on benefits (though thats also somewhat annoying). Its people that have two or more kids while on benefits that I find annoying. Use contraception, have an abortion or whatever, if you're against either of them for whatever reason then stop f***ing.
Also as a former student I use to get similarly annoyed by people who had kids while studying. Then using them as an excuse to get more funding, to hand stuff in late and to expect special treatment. Is it so hard to wait four or five years.
EDIT: BTW I'd appreciate no clichéd you must be a Daily Mail reader style responses, as I tried to be fairly balanced and I wouldn't touch those papers with a barge pole.. In fact I may even come up with a Godwins law derivative or corollary.
RecQuerys Law: Anyone who mentions the Daily Mail, Daily Express or similar rag in response to a fairly reasonable argument, statement or point automatically loses the argument. Instead argue a point or position of your own.
Hands up then, I surrender in the face of reasoned argument.
BishBashBosh
14-Apr-10, 11:06
Good god, please forgive my hangover-induced rant.
Did it never occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you should have got your own life in order before you decided to add to an already over-populated world? You know, get educated, get job, progress up the career ladder, earn some money, have sprogs, give them the best start in life! Do you only honestly think that being a single mother dependant on state handouts is the best start in life. You are part of the reason that this country is in terminal decline. When I'm President of this country, there will be major changes. And the first of them is compulsory birth control, until you can prove that you're fit, able and willing to support your own children. Now I know thats a difficult concept for you, supporting your own children, but maybe it would be worth thinking about. :roll:
I think you might have missed reading one of my previous posts which states that i have been working since i could get a part-time job while still at school AND COLLEGE!
i will admit that my child doesnt have the perfect family but what is perfect in this day and age?
Also because i have a FULL TIME JOB i dont think i come under the priamiters of your rant!
As i already have a job it is so much easier that once i go back after my maternity leave, they can try and get me the hours i need, to work around child care nesesities!
Personal comments like that dont help anyone, especially when you dont have your facts right!
DeHaviLand
14-Apr-10, 11:24
I think you might have missed reading one of my previous posts which states that i have been working since i could get a part-time job while still at school AND COLLEGE!
i will admit that my child doesnt have the perfect family but what is perfect in this day and age?
Also because i have a FULL TIME JOB i dont think i come under the priamiters of your rant!
As i already have a job it is so much easier that once i go back after my maternity leave, they can try and get me the hours i need, to work around child care nesesities!
Personal comments like that dont help anyone, especially when you dont have your facts right!
Actually you do come under the PARAMETERS of my rant, because if you read it carefully I strongly suggested that u should have put off having sprogs until a time when you were able to afford them. Child bearing is not a right, there are responsibilities that go with it, and far too many get into it without giving it any thought. Though maybe thinking ahead is the difficult part for you?
Your child, your responsibility. Jesus H. Corbett, this country is too damn soft.
BishBashBosh
14-Apr-10, 11:47
Actually you do come under the PARAMETERS of my rant, because if you read it carefully I strongly suggested that u should have put off having sprogs until a time when you were able to afford them. Child bearing is not a right, there are responsibilities that go with it, and far too many get into it without giving it any thought. Though maybe thinking ahead is the difficult part for you?
Your child, your responsibility. Jesus H. Corbett, this country is too damn soft.
I dont think you understand the fact that in my personal situation, i have the full time job and pay my taxes. i run a car and once back at work will be preparing to buy a property and start a morgage! if this isnt being able to afford to have a child then what is? i will not apologise for conceving a child with someone who cant decide what he wants yet! But i will for my spelling haha
TBH i would have been all with you this time last year! Its not until you have an unexpected pregnancy that you know exactly what you would choose!
DeHaviLand
14-Apr-10, 12:09
I dont think you understand the fact that in my personal situation, i have the full time job and pay my taxes. i run a car and once back at work will be preparing to buy a property and start a morgage! if this isnt being able to afford to have a child then what is? i will not apologise for conceving a child with someone who cant decide what he wants yet! But i will for my spelling haha
TBH i would have been all with you this time last year! Its not until you have an unexpected pregnancy that you know exactly what you would choose!
Unexpected pregnancy/ responsibility. See the connection? :roll:
Shabbychic
14-Apr-10, 13:17
Once again, a bombshell that could cause huge financial hardship to tens of thousands of claimants has been dropped, virtually unnoticed, by a government minister.
The shock plans, for ‘simplifying’ the work capability assessment for employment and support allowance (ESA) include docking points from amputees who can lift and carry with their stumps. Claimants with speech problems who can write a sign saying, for example, ‘The office is on fire!’ will score no points for speech and deaf claimants who can read the sign will lose all their points for hearing.
Meanwhile, for ‘health and safety reasons’ all points scored for problems with bending and kneeling are to be abolished and claimants who have difficulty walking can be assessed using imaginary wheelchairs.
These changes, and many more, have already been approved by the secretary of state for work and pensions but have not yet passed into law. They will affect both ESA claimants and the 1.5 million incapacity benefits claimants waiting to be assessed for ESA.
I think this thread has gone way off on a tangent. These new plans are not aimed at folks on income support etc. They are aimed at people who can't work due to illness.
These new rules will not effect people like the Davey family. They will carry on doing what they do. In my opinion it's cases like these the government should be aiming at, not the weakest in society, most of whom are ill due to no fault of their own.
The government have turned society against people who can't work due to illness, by citing a few cases of fraud, and implying this is widespread. They have carefully intertwined all benefits to mean cheat and fraud, and most off all, how the poor taxpayers are being ripped off. Now they can be as harsh as they wish, and society applaud them for it.
This thread is a prime example, mention benefits and folks shout in disgust, but how many actually read the original thread. Of course, most people know dozens who are fleecing the system with phoney illnesses, but do they really?
Anyway, I feel what the government is doing is disgraceful. They are now planning to make an already difficult part of the system impossible, and heaven help any of the baying mob if they themselves one day, find it difficult to work due to an accident or illness.
Tubthumper
14-Apr-10, 13:28
Anyway, I feel what the government is doing is disgraceful. They are now planning to make an already difficult part of the system impossible, and heaven help any of the baying mob if they themselves one day, find it difficult to work due to an accident or illness.
Most folk I know who are disabled are keen to get into work, and are horrified by the number of people who seem to be able to draw benefits (income support or disability) with not much wrong, while they as deserving cases have to jump through hoops.
This proposal, to offer assistance that's based on what one CAN do, rather than a simple assumption that disability allowance = CAN'T do, goes some way to addressing a problem that upsets the disabled population as well. As long as it's applied fairly, and those in need actually get, where's the difficulty?
I would say that your response is pretty typical of the problem: Something needs to be done, but don't even think about trying to address any sensitive issues, just in case anyone gets upset.
Unexpected pregnancy/ responsibility. See the connection? :roll:
How judgemental of you Dehaviland. How long before you are also judging a person for putting off the decision to become a mother only to find that then they need IVF at the expense of the tax payer?
Responsibility is what is being taken in the case of BishBashBosh. Responsibility for her child and for herself. But that is not good enough for you in your perfect "Dehaviland utopia", where every decision is carefully risk assessed and nothing unexpected is allowed to happen.
Yes, there are too many children being born to children. Yes social security is abused by some. And yes, unexpectedly a person can find themselves in a situation where for a while or for a long time, they need the help of social security. There every single one of us go, but for the grace of whome ever is up there or pure chance. Knocking someone down because for a while that help might have been needed is a very small minded way of looking at people. It becomes even pettier when that person has found their footing again, and still you would knock them down.
Shabbychic
14-Apr-10, 14:19
This proposal, to offer assistance that's based on what one CAN do, rather than a simple assumption that disability allowance = CAN'T do, goes some way to addressing a problem that upsets the disabled population as well. As long as it's applied fairly, and those in need actually get, where's the difficulty?
I would say that your response is pretty typical of the problem: Something needs to be done, but don't even think about trying to address any sensitive issues, just in case anyone gets upset.
I agree with you, that this method sounds absolutely brilliant, but this system is not being applied fairly, and those in actual need are not always getting. My response has nothing to do with not addressing sensitive issues, or upsetting anyone, it's based on cold, hard facts.
I admit I don't know all the ins and outs of the new system, but what I do know is, the government is not carrying out these assessments themselves. This is done by an American company called Atos Healthcare, and their reputation is far from admirable.
Take this recent story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8465122.stm) as an example. This is what's going on with the new system, and in my view it is not working as it should.
Most folk I know who are disabled are keen to get into work,
But where are all the jobs going to come from?
The article which Shabbychic linkked to said:
"The government said it wanted to get a million people back to work by 2015"
Some hope
But where are all the jobs going to come from?
The article which Shabbychic linkked to said:
"The government said it wanted to get a million people back to work by 2015"
Some hope
What, for the nightshift?
I want to win the lottery as well, doesnt mean its going to happen.
I see my self as quite fortunate, I left school 26 years ago, walked straight into an aprenticeship and have spent a total of 2 and a half months unemployed waiting a start date to go into the forces. Several jobs later, I would not like to be unemployed in this day and age.
I see several different types of unemployed people, the main ones being those who want to return to, or start work,
I have sympathy for people on benifits, who don't work the system and who struggle to find work that will give them a decent standard of living.
Then those who have never worked a day and expect everything handed to them on a plate.
Part of the problem is that we pay people more to be unemployed than they would earn working. Perhaps raising the minimum wage might be a start.
How about putting long term unemployed who are making no effort to find work out to earn their benifits, those that are making effort, more assistance in the way of re training. Those that dont want to make an effort, or earn there benifits get benifits paid in tokens, redeemable only against food, clothing and other life essentials.
DeHaviLand
15-Apr-10, 08:54
How about putting long term unemployed who are making no effort to find work out to earn their benifits, those that are making effort, more assistance in the way of re training. Those that dont want to make an effort, or earn there benifits get benifits paid in tokens, redeemable only against food, clothing and other life essentials.
Dont forget, that system was tried with asylum seekers. Food tokens, instead of cash. But our wishy-washy, liberal hand-wringers complained that it breached their human rights.
Its a good idea, and one that I would back, but the do-gooders out there just aren't about to let it happen.
Just got to face up to it, this country is screwed [disgust]
pretty much, I would like to think we could reverse that, but as long as we bow to Europe, sign up to European Court of Human Rights instead of a British citizens court of human rights, do as Brussels tell us with trade etc, we are well screwed.
for every person screwing the system there are countless people who are genuine claimants of these disability benefits. All disabilities are not apparent to us, (the medically unqualified). I have never claimed any benefits all my working life and consider myself very fortunate. who knows when you or I could develop a disability/have an accident that could leave us disabled? Don`t be so quick to judge others.
pretty much, I would like to think we could reverse that, but as long as we bow to Europe, sign up to European Court of Human Rights instead of a British citizens court of human rights, do as Brussels tell us with trade etc, we are well screwed.
Well, vote for a party who will get out of the EU.
for every person screwing the system there are countless people who are genuine claimants of these disability benefits. All disabilities are not apparent to us, (the medically unqualified). I have never claimed any benefits all my working life and consider myself very fortunate. who knows when you or I could develop a disability/have an accident that could leave us disabled? Don`t be so quick to judge others.
I think the people who are being judged are the ones who dont want to work and not the unemployed who do want to work.
Me an oh both worked all our lives. Paid all our taxes an suffered the full gauntlet of having a large family,without squaking or benefit from parents, now that we have 2 of ours on full time invalidy benefit, we think fair do's.Going by the origional post,-well son has gone thru' a full scale assesment, 3 months long an suffered by it, mind problems, finaly scored as acceptable. Daughter would not be capable of similiar,but as first post-both of them would in the firing line......We are not just looking at the scroungers an scoundrels, there are many well deserving people out there who just are not capable of looking after them selves, an the post points to a direct attack on those unfortunates.An the whelk who thought it up should try typing with a pen in his mouth an waving his stumps to get attention,an all the dogooders on here may benefit from looking up-invalidy,in the dictionary,better there than google, more to the point.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.