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Thread: ASDA ... the argument continues ...

  1. #1
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    Default ASDA ... the argument continues ...

    ok folks, the time is narrowing for the public enquiry for the ASDA development at Pennyland Farm in Thurso, and your help is needed again if you want this to happen.
    Miller Developments are using the Auction Mart site as a 'blocker' proposing the planning application of a supermarket site there. I don't know about anyone else but I reckon with the two schools and the train station there and also a fairly popular builders yard, any supermarket development is only going to create a lot more hazardous conditions for residents and kids.
    I am going to send the below as an objection of this, please feel free to use this as a draft for yourselves if you want to object too. Pennyland has got to be the site of choice for me personally, it's a lot better location and as for the increase in traffic there, there is a lot more scope for things to be done to the roads and a pathway made than the mart site.
    We have until this weekend to get letters and emails in to the office.
    please address snail mail to
    Mr I Ewart
    Highland Council
    Planning & Building Standards
    Council Offices
    Wick
    KW1 4AB
    Planning Application Reference No - 07/00038/OUTCA

    and i will find out the email addy and edit it into my post here. iain.ewart@highland.gov.uk
    Deadline is Friday 6th April
    my letter ...

    Dear Mr Ewart,
    I would like you to note my objection to the Erection of a (class 1) retail store, petrol filling station, class 9 housing, parking, landscaping, servicing, access and internal roads. Thurso Auction Mart, Ormlie Road, Thurso.

    This is a very busy area already with a primary school and secondary school and college within half a mile or so each way. I feel the safety of the children would be put at risk if this planning were to go ahead with the obvious increase in heavy vehicles travelling there as well as normal consumer traffic. Also there is the train station next to the site and bus depot, the road system has nowhere to expand to cope with the increase in traffic.
    I hope you will consider this objection seriously and consider not approving the application.

    Yours Faithfully
    Last edited by Tugmistress; 03-Apr-07 at 11:51. Reason: added email addy
    www.tugmistress.co.uk

  2. #2
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    I am not trying to be a devil's advocate here (as if!)but do you really think that a superstore on the mart site would be more hazardous for the kids?

    The road at the moment is very dangerous. It is very straight and cars do tend to pick up speed there and there is a bit of a blind hill exactly where the pelican crossing is situated, plus side entrances(lovers lane/castlegreen in particular) and the junior school near town. The whole area is a mess.

    I think a superstore would need a mini roundabout at the entrance which would serve to reduce speeds and give an ideal opportunity for the council to get to grips with road safety in that area. On the school side between the station, the pavement disappears as well, yet the kids still insist on walking along there even after being repeatedly told not to, the whole thing needs revamping.

    If the traffic on that stretch is better managed due to ASDA going on that site then I think it could be a good thing.

    Without a proper consultation, I think it could be foolhardy to reject the mart site on safety issues alone and nothing will happen unless something changes to the status quo or there is a death.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 03-Apr-07 at 12:26.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  3. #3

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    Nobody had any objections to the Cormacks Articulated lorries parked at the mart and blocking the pavement during sales. Forcing kids to cross where there is no crossing.
    Asda could be forced to use the train as a condition of permission for transportation of goods.
    It is all irrelevant anyway because even if Asda get permission to build on Pennyland Millers will look to offload the mart to Tesco, Aldi or whoever.

  4. #4
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    Hi Rheghead

    Putting all the extra traffic in that area that a large retail store will draw is asking for trouble. If you are looking at the 2 sites head to head, one is surrounded by schools, train station, funeral parlour, college, dentists, nursery's etc etc. It already has 3 manned school crossings and one unmanned within 200mts of the site. The site I am supporting has NONE!! of these problems, Sorry one manned crossing about 400mts away.

    and don't worry we all play devils advocate at times
    www.tugmistress.co.uk

  5. #5

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    I would be surprised if they rejected it on those grounds tug, down here they have asda/tesco next to schools, swimming pools, busy roads, middle of residential housing areas !

    i dont really care where they build it, just build it before i move home, i need my asda flapjack fix at least once a week or i get grumpy,

    no no hang on grumpier !!!

  6. #6
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    Seems a sensible place for a supermarket to me.

    There are already manned school crossings in the area so there is no added burden to the taxpayer.

    One road in, one out is the general rule and traffic can be 'calmed' around the area too. The slope of the site lends itself to an underpass entry too.

    What has the location of the funeral directors got to do with it?

    It works for Fort William having a supermarket at the railway station, why not Thurso?

    Seems that having got so worked up about imposing a supermarket on a site particularly unsuitable and which constitutes a large block of Thurso's green and pleasant land you are starting to clutch at straws in your blinkered insistence that you were right and no other option should be considered.

    Personally I predict that in ten years time 80% of shopping will be delivered to your door and the need will be for large distribution hubs. These will be located in existing low value sites (the site of the old mart would be particularly suitable with the railway there) and what will happen then to the other concrete cathedrals dotted around our town? They will end up going the way they sent the wee shops, abandoned and empty, left to ruin.



    I suppose there will be those still winging that their rights are being infringed because they haven't the same shopping choice as those in the big smoke. Makes you wonder why they sought out this place or choose to stay.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tugmistress View Post
    Hi Rheghead

    Putting all the extra traffic in that area that a large retail store will draw is asking for trouble. If you are looking at the 2 sites head to head, one is surrounded by schools, train station, funeral parlour, college, dentists, nursery's etc etc. It already has 3 manned school crossings and one unmanned within 200mts of the site. The site I am supporting has NONE!! of these problems, Sorry one manned crossing about 400mts away.

    and don't worry we all play devils advocate at times
    I'm with you Tugmistress and my letter of objection is in the post.

  8. #8
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    I dont really mind where they put the ASDA as log as they do put it somewhere ... somerfield and the co-op are really dire at the moment. I went through to tescos on sunday and it was a refreshing change i got help with packing my bags trolly taken to the car and unloaded for me .. went to somerfield today and my wee one was acting up ..crying .. what do you expect from a 9 month old ... got no help in there at all..the old mart is looking run down and needs something done to it the pennyland area is getting built on now.. I dont mind where it goes but we need some competition for tescos in wick...it may make the rest of the shops buck up there ideas which is no a bad thing!

  9. #9
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    Just a note that i would like to point out, we all want a asda, but the development at the mart is being used as a BLOCKER, please not that word. that means no ASDA

  10. #10

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    It would be a crying shame if thurso was denied this for whatever reason.

    And it would make me and others i am sure, wonder as to what the council are doing by trying to block this !!
    Last edited by Solus; 03-Apr-07 at 16:07.

  11. #11

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    Just to set a few people straight on a few points.
    The Mart is not being used as a blocker. Millers purchased the mart and gave Asda first option on the site. Which they excepted.
    Millers are as a business wanting a return on their investment and have a applied for outline permission for a retail store on the site. If permission is granted ahead of the Asda Inquiry Millers will object to pennyland on account of there being a suitable approved site available elsewhere. They would be daft not to.

    If Millers applilcation is delayed and not approved prior to the Asda inquiry Millers will most likey take the council to court and claim their application has been unduly delayed to allow pennyland to proceed. This will result in both apllications being delayed by another year and most likely ending up on the desk of the minister responsible.
    This is big corporate games with neither party giving a toss for the best intrests of Thurso.

    Bigjjuck you and lots like you may want Asda but that is not the same as ALL of us.

    Dadie. If you think Asda will make the local shops buck up their ideas I would ask you to take a walk down Wick high Street and see if you can find one positive point as a result of Tescos opening. Big shops come little shops go. Thats what happens, like it or not.

  12. #12
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    Pentlander your post is spot on in the development side there, but you missed the point. Yoiu are right that they would be daft not to object against the pennyland site. This is BLOCKING as they dont want to miss out on a sale, so objecting against pennyland. I appreciate this is the norm, but its still blocking.

  13. #13

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    This is big corporate games with neither party giving a toss for the best intrests of Thurso
    Correct, also ask yourselves who's pulling the councils strings !

    old pals act ? yes

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solus View Post
    Correct, also ask yourselves who's pulling the councils strings !

    old pals act ? yes
    Asda aproached Thurso council and said they wanted to open a store in Thurso. It was the council who suggested the Pennyland site. It was individual council members who used their vote to block the initial application not the council itself.
    If you want a conspiracy theory heres one for you.
    Tullock who will no doubt be building the new Asda at pennyland may have put pressure on the council to get retail stores to open at that end of the town to increase the value of the houses they will build by the battery factory. Is it possible that they may threaten to pull the plug on this new development if the council does not make some efforts to bring Asda to this side of the town. I am only speculating and have no evidence to suggest this is true interesting however that the council would suggest a green field site they knew was against the local plan when a brown field site which Asda has first refusal on is availabe at the other side of town.
    Strange EH!
    Last edited by pentlander; 03-Apr-07 at 17:35.

  15. #15

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    very, i should have said indivdual members, thats what i meant.

    It has gone on for years and no doubt will continue for years, its sad when progress is halted so some may continue to line their pockets !

  16. #16

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    If the market site is to remain an option, one condition would be to upgrade the road and junctions. At 9am and 3:15 the whole stretch of road from the college to the railway station is really busy. Try getting out of the junction beside Millers!

    Use a derilict brownfield site, get an Asda and better roads all at the same time.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozeburglar View Post
    Seems a sensible place for a supermarket to me.

    There are already manned school crossings in the area so there is no added burden to the taxpayer.

    One road in, one out is the general rule and traffic can be 'calmed' around the area too. The slope of the site lends itself to an underpass entry too.
    ok, there are already manned crossings there, but you as well as i and other people drive up and down that road so we know it, do you drive heavy haulage? (supermarket trailers i mean?) ... i do, traffic may be able to be 'calmed' in the area, but what about road widening for the swing of the lorries to enter for deliveries? how would this be accomplished? yes there is a wide area on the school sides at the moment where cars are parked ( i assume some are residents of the houses up that stretch of road) if this strip of land is used where would the residents park? on the road or in a supermarket carpark as some of those houses don't have drives if i remember rightly. do you drive up and down there when the schools are kicking out? it's a nightmare, even with manned crossings you know you have to watch out for the kids diving out in front of you, the car doors where mums/dads are piling the kids in that you could easily take off if you were not watching out etc. just a couple of off the top of my heads reasons why *I* don't think it is safe there. You mention the slope of the land is suitable for an underpass access, what about the other side of the road? where would the access start? it is also sloping uphill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boozeburglar View Post
    What has the location of the funeral directors got to do with it?

    It works for Fort William having a supermarket at the railway station, why not Thurso?
    Ok the train station, look at fort william, how easy it is to pull up at the station and wait for the train to pick up, drop off, meet, etc there? i don't know fort william station but i'll bet it's not as cramped as Thurso.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boozeburglar View Post
    Seems that having got so worked up about imposing a supermarket on a site particularly unsuitable and which constitutes a large block of Thurso's green and pleasant land you are starting to clutch at straws in your blinkered insistence that you were right and no other option should be considered.
    I certainly don't have a blinkered existance and i certainly don't pressume to think i am 'right', i have put forward *MY* opinion, to which each and every person is entitled to have of their own, if you think the mart site is more suited to a supermarket then that is your choice of your opinion and i will certainly respect that, whereas my choice of site is pennyland, the reasons given above are part of it, i also happen to think that pennyland doesn't constitute a 'green belt' area by the nature of where we are, green belts, to me, provide a little bit of countryside in what is predominantly an urban area where the community has no immediate or easy access to countryside surroundings. whether this be a correct assumption of the term greenbelt or not i don't know, but it is my interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boozeburglar View Post
    Personally I predict that in ten years time 80% of shopping will be delivered to your door and the need will be for large distribution hubs. These will be located in existing low value sites (the site of the old mart would be particularly suitable with the railway there) and what will happen then to the other concrete cathedrals dotted around our town? They will end up going the way they sent the wee shops, abandoned and empty, left to ruin.



    I suppose there will be those still winging that their rights are being infringed because they haven't the same shopping choice as those in the big smoke. Makes you wonder why they sought out this place or choose to stay.
    I sincerely hope that this is not a dig at me being an 'incomer' and choosing to stay, why i stay is because i love it here, most people are friendly and helpful and the whole atmosphere of the place is just pure magic to me, it is so relaxing and not at the breakneck speed of most of the rest of the UK and long may it stay that way. personally i would like asda to get the planning for thurso at pennyland to give thurso a little bit of a boost so not everyone wanders through to the new metropolis of wick and it's large stores, this is not a one town county, there are two sides to it and the county is big enough to hold a tesco one side and an asda the other.
    www.tugmistress.co.uk

  18. #18
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    I've recently returned to the county after several years down south and I have to admit I'm not quite up to speed on the ASDA debate yet. I think it would be great to have an ASDA here.

    Can one of you seasoned ASDA campaigners out there let me know - are the two sites similar in size? My instinct is that the old mart site is by far the most sensible option for all the reasons Rheghead and Stargazer have said... the main thing against it in my opinion is that it doesn't seem a very big site for a superstore. Does anyone know the acreage figures for the two sites?
    "Genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration" (Thomas Edison)

  19. #19
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    Personally I don't mind which site is used so long as something is done sooner rather than later. Thurso really needs a boost similar to that which Wick has received of late.

    Yes Pennyland has benefits - there's simply less going on to worry about, but our Councillors have already indicated their opposition to that site. The mart site is 'derelict' and ready for development. It would use an existing free site and keep business 'in town' rather than on the outskirts like Tesco/Homebase/Argos are in Wick.

    As one of the regular users of that end of Castlegreen Road (CGR), both when walking the kids to school and as a driver, I despair at the traffic sometimes. Off course it would help if those drivers turning right stuck close to the centre of the road so that other drivers filtering left could pass by but they frequently don't. However, before discounting the suitability of the site, I'd really have to see how the infrastructure of the site was going to be set out.

    Firstly if one of the provisios of the proposed store was that the railway line had to be used for deliveries then that would be a major positive factor, satisfying both my environmental and traffic concerns.

    Secondly, with the increased flow of traffic, something would have to be done at the bottom of CGR & top of Lovers Lane in order to allow traffic out regularly (especially those turning right from both junctions) - and I feel that this would almost certainly have to be traffic lights. This would, in turn, require a crossing point at the bottom of CGR and at Miller Academy for the safety of pedestrians. However I feel that both crossings would still need patrollers at the usual times due to the young age of the kids using them.

    The inclusion of a roundabout for entry to/exit from the site would certainly curb the speed of traffic along Ormlie Road. The High School would have no real option but to ban kids from walking down the mart side - forcing them to either cross at the pelican crossing and walk down the wide path, or to take the Janet Street road down.

    So while Pennyland may be the favourite for many, the mart site cannot just be ruled out without seeing the intended infrastructure plan.

    Any thoughts?



  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeFixit View Post
    I've recently returned to the county after several years down south and I have to admit I'm not quite up to speed on the ASDA debate yet. I think it would be great to have an ASDA here.

    Can one of you seasoned ASDA campaigners out there let me know - are the two sites similar in size? My instinct is that the old mart site is by far the most sensible option for all the reasons Rheghead and Stargazer have said... the main thing against it in my opinion is that it doesn't seem a very big site for a superstore. Does anyone know the acreage figures for the two sites?
    There is plenty of room at the mart site. The proposed Asda is half the size
    of Wick Tesco.

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