EU law and constitution expert Professor Dougan says it as it is.

**Rheghead** · 18-Jun-16, 19:56

Take 24 minutes out of your life to listen to Professor Dougan, if you claim there are no facts to go on then listen to this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

**rob murray** · 21-Jun-16, 16:13

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Take 24 minutes out of your life to listen to Professor Dougan, if you claim there are no facts to go on then listen to this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

Very good thanks for posting, what we 100% know is what remain delivers, we cannot say the same about leave, we do not know what leave will really turn out as, and its effects on the economy, we can guess either positively / negatively or be realistic and admit none of us really know ( leave "experts" as well ) what leave will really look like. To much uncertainty, stay as we are, the in / out situation can always be looked at again / continual negotiations / vetos etc to shape EU to something more acceptable if we remain, if we are out, then its sine die, no way back. My bet is the undecided will vote for the status quo and remain wins 53 / 47%.

**squidge** · 21-Jun-16, 23:50

Remain for me too

**Fulmar** · 22-Jun-16, 08:08

It is the future of the young people that has decided it for me- they are overwhelmingly for 'remain' and embrace the concepts of the European project and they are the ones who will live with the consequences of the vote and not the older people like me. Also, throughout my lifetime, there has been no major war between European nations and I believe that the European project has fostered that. Plus we live in a global world now and need to unite with others to find solutions for the problems our world faces and there is no turning back to what may seem a more simple time. I think that we need to unite with others in Europe and beyond it and between us also rein in the power of the huge multinationals like Amazon who are the ones who really seem to rule the world and change what is wrong by working from within the EU rather than outside of it.

**tonkatojo** · 22-Jun-16, 08:34

Originally Posted by Fulmar

It is the future of the young people that has decided it for me- they are overwhelmingly for 'remain' and embrace the concepts of the European project and they are the ones who will live with the consequences of the vote and not the older people like me. Also, throughout my lifetime, there has been no major war between European nations and I believe that the European project has fostered that. Plus we live in a global world now and need to unite with others to find solutions for the problems our world faces and there is no turning back to what may seem a more simple time. I think that we need to unite with others in Europe and beyond it and between us also rein in the power of the huge multinationals like Amazon who are the ones who really seem to rule the world and change what is wrong by working from within the EU rather than outside of it.

I like the young am thinking of myself and totally disagree, the original "European project" was what I voted for and expected the consequences of that not what we now have. As for living in a global world what is the point if we cannot freely trade with them ?. You are wrong in my opinion regarding the EU being the reason for no major wars, the reason is because of NATO and the power of the Yanks not the European non-contributing financially to NATO countries. As for the likes of the multinationals the EU are about to agree to a trade deal with the USA that favours them and will wreak havoc on the likes of the NHS, whereas an independent UK (GB) free of the EU shackles and regulations could make trade deals globally for our interests to be favoured.

**rob murray** · 22-Jun-16, 12:06

see http://www.acgrayling.com/the-last-word-on-nationalism a good read : bookies odds today are 9/2 remain

**squidge** · 22-Jun-16, 16:08

Originally Posted by tonkatojo

I like the young am thinking of myself and totally disagree, the original "European project" was what I voted for and expected the consequences of that not what we now have. As for living in a global world what is the point if we cannot freely trade with them ?. You are wrong in my opinion regarding the EU being the reason for no major wars, the reason is because of NATO and the power of the Yanks not the European non-contributing financially to NATO countries. As for the likes of the multinationals the EU are about to agree to a trade deal with the USA that favours them and will wreak havoc on the likes of the NHS, whereas an independent UK (GB) free of the EU shackles and regulations could make trade deals globally for our interests to be favoured.

The only place there is any opposition to TTIP is from Europe. The UK is throwing its arms open to welcome it whereas France, Germany and half of the committees have opposed it. Our WM government would take it tomorrow as it is. Despite the Scottish government asking for opt outs for public services WM have refused to consider them. This leaves us reliant on our EU partners to stand against it.

Also, if TTIP is what's on the table just now, what do you think will be in the trade agreements we draw up with the US outwith the EU. They will demand a high price for access to their markets, we will have no backup and I am inclined to believe that TTIP will look like a benevolent gift in comparison.

**dc1** · 22-Jun-16, 21:03

I voted against joining the eu in the first referendum and see nothing to change my mind and by the way iam not a nationalist

**tonkatojo** · 23-Jun-16, 08:45

Originally Posted by squidge

The only place there is any opposition to TTIP is from Europe. The UK is throwing its arms open to welcome it whereas France, Germany and half of the committees have opposed it. Our WM government would take it tomorrow as it is. Despite the Scottish government asking for opt outs for public services WM have refused to consider them. This leaves us reliant on our EU partners to stand against it.

Also, if TTIP is what's on the table just now, what do you think will be in the trade agreements we draw up with the US outwith the EU. They will demand a high price for access to their markets, we will have no backup and I am inclined to believe that TTIP will look like a benevolent gift in comparison.

At the very least we will be in a position to take it or leave not have it imposed by a majority of at most 27-1.

**Rheghead** · 23-Jun-16, 19:46

Originally Posted by tonkatojo

At the very least we will be in a position to take it or leave not have it imposed by a majority of at most 27-1.

Never has the UK been out-voted 27-1.

Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

FULLFACT

**tonkatojo** · 23-Jun-16, 20:09

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Never has the UK been out-voted 27-1.

Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

FULLFACT

2% to many for me.

**Rheghead** · 23-Jun-16, 21:15

Originally Posted by tonkatojo

2% to many for me.

What disturbs me is that you genuinely believed that the UK mostly got out-voted and by 27-1. Do you think the news media in this country has failed you either by neglect of the facts or fabrication?

And if that is the case does it explain to some extent why despite all the consensus from leading public figures that brexit is generally at best bad at worst disastrous for the UK, the UK public often believe the opposite?

**tonkatojo** · 23-Jun-16, 22:10

Originally Posted by Rheghead

What disturbs me is that you genuinely believed that the UK mostly got out-voted and by 27-1. Do you think the news media in this country has failed you either by neglect of the facts or fabrication?

And if that is the case does it explain to some extent why despite all the consensus from leading public figures that brexit is generally at best bad at worst disastrous for the UK, the UK public often believe the opposite?

What I really want out of it is for UK democracy to be restored back to pre 1975 status where we governed by election and when not happy elected another government, not the way we are at present within the EU. It really is that simple.

**bekisman** · 03-Dec-16, 14:43

Originally Posted by squidge

The only place there is any opposition to TTIP is from Europe. The UK is throwing its arms open to welcome it whereas France, Germany and half of the committees have opposed it. Our WM government would take it tomorrow as it is. Despite the Scottish government asking for opt outs for public services WM have refused to consider them. This leaves us reliant on our EU partners to stand against it.

Also, if TTIP is what's on the table just now, what do you think will be in the trade agreements we draw up with the US outwith the EU. They will demand a high price for access to their markets, we will have no backup and I am inclined to believe that TTIP will look like a benevolent gift in comparison.

Good ole Trump, TTIP is dead.. and with Donald wanting a quick free trade deal with UNITED KINGDOM, things are fair ticking along - what a difference a few months take.. lovely

**Recycle it** · 03-Dec-16, 18:13

Originally Posted by bekisman

Good ole Trump, TTIP is dead.. and with Donald wanting a quick free trade deal with UNITED KINGDOM, things are fair ticking along - what a difference a few months take.. lovely

With a new report showing a direct link between the Conservative Party of Maggie Thatcher and the Du Pont deal to get rid of their Flouride waste by adding it to the countries water supply . Flouride witch is 200 times more Poisonous than LEAD will see a multi Trillion claim that will bring down the Government . The report has been covered up by David Cameron and Brexit has been used to change the point of focus. Every family and person in the country would have a claim, just think back to when the Flouride was added and the timescale of the ballon of diseases . I can see where the link could and should be made.

**bekisman** · 05-Dec-16, 18:33

Originally Posted by Recycle it

With a new report showing a direct link between the Conservative Party of Maggie Thatcher and the Du Pont deal to get rid of their Flouride waste by adding it to the countries water supply . Flouride witch is 200 times more Poisonous than LEAD will see a multi Trillion claim that will bring down the Government . The report has been covered up by David Cameron and Brexit has been used to change the point of focus. Every family and person in the country would have a claim, just think back to when the Flouride was added and the timescale of the ballon of diseases . I can see where the link could and should be made.

Phew!! "Scottish Water can confirm that fluoride is not added to any part of the water supply in Scotland." that was lucky