Snp pressurising councils to build more windfarms

**Gronnuck** · 23-Jun-13, 14:30

Originally Posted by Rheghead

It is and always has been about cutting carbon emissions. Time to get on-message.

I've got nothing against wind farms, cutting carbon emissions etc. but I am sick of the hypocracy. The reasons Caithness Stone is going to the wall is because it is cheaper to import stone from China! The Carbon emissions created in dragging tons of the stuff halfway round the world must be huge. I don't hear voices raised in dissent when we've got all the stone we need on our doorstep.

**secrets in symmetry** · 23-Jun-13, 14:49

Originally Posted by Gronnuck

The reasons Caithness Stone is going to the wall is because it is cheaper to import stone from China!

Do you know that is the case, or are you hypothesising? If you know, how do you know?

**Rheghead** · 23-Jun-13, 15:19

Originally Posted by Gronnuck

I've got nothing against wind farms, cutting carbon emissions etc. but I am sick of the hypocracy. The reasons Caithness Stone is going to the wall is because it is cheaper to import stone from China! The Carbon emissions created in dragging tons of the stuff halfway round the world must be huge. I don't hear voices raised in dissent when we've got all the stone we need on our doorstep.

Even if that were true, where is the hypocrisy? Nobody is claiming importing stone from China has a lower carbon footprint. We have the freedom to choose what suits our situation, it is your choice to buy local stone or not and if you choose local stone over imported then I will applaud your informed choice.

Now if you are suggesting that the Government should create the right economic conditions that would make it a no-brainer to buy local over imported, iow, if you want to stop globalisation then I support that.

Stopping wind farms is not going to stop globalisation, is it, if that is your real gripe? In fact it will make things worse as we will have to import energy from abroad to replace it. You can still exercise your freedom to choose what you want to buy and still support wind energy.

**Oddquine** · 23-Jun-13, 21:53

Originally Posted by Rheghead

It is and always has been about cutting carbon emissions. Time to get on-message.

No, it hasn't,and isn't now.....unless the message is to how cut carbon emissions in any way which doesn't cut company profits, (and windfarms increase company profits by adding sales to the producers and subsidies to the energy companies), and to that end doesn't make us walk or bike to the corner shop rather than taking the family car...often a 4x4...doesn't make us don a fleece rather than up the heating...doesn't make us think twice about hopping on a plane for a holiday.....and does let us choose to buy exotic fruits which grow half across the world, or buy clothes made at a pittance half across the world and sold at silly money by the likes of Nike.

Come on, Rheghead...you never appear to say much re carbon emission cutting bar "MORE WINDMILLS GOOD REFUSING WINDMILLS BAD".....which smacks rather of someone who wants to continue to have his lifestyle cake as long as everybody else has to pay for it..or everybody else has to take the consequences along with you.

If it was really all about carbon emissions, we'd have started with constricting/rolling back the "global economy", and increasing foreign aid/ forgiving foreign debt, so third world countries didn't have to export to us to get aid from us or repay IMF loans of the same kind which produced the Banking meltdown, because the IMF thinks profit before anything (All Friedman groupies to the core.. and the result is that foreign aid nowadays isn't really aid to third world countries..but thinly disguised aid to our western businesses....as in "we give you aid and you sell us what we want to buy cheaply so we can add a big mark-up, or we give you aid and you buy the armaments etc we want to sell so our businesses can make a profit) but REAL foreign aid, directed away from Governments (because all Governments are corrupt (or incompetent) to some extent including our own) and directly into local industries producing goods used locally, so third world countries wouldn't have to pay crap to their populations to produce food and manufactured crap for ours to buy cheaply and fly in from the bahookey-end of beyond.

If carbon emissions were really a problem to the extent Governments, scientists and the likes of you would have us believe...we'd have killed off the WTO/or at least shoved Friedman's economic philosophies up the anal orifices of every Western Government until it choked them and we'd be forcing you, me and everybody else in the West to live within our own means and not off the livelihoods of others...as the livelihoods of others are a large source element in world carbon emissions.....and we, through our choices are helping directly to increase them.

**Gronnuck** · 23-Jun-13, 22:27

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

Do you know that is the case, or are you hypothesising? If you know, how do you know?

People in the Building Supplies industry tell me that contractors undertaking major public works are buying slabs, setts, cobbles and paviours from China regardless of the Carbon emissions issue because it is cheaper. It’s been happening in Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow recently, however detailed information is difficult to access because it is being done under the cloak of ‘commercial confidentiality.’

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Even if that were true, where is the hypocrisy? Nobody is claiming importing stone from China has a lower carbon footprint. We have the freedom to choose what suits our situation, it is your choice to buy local stone or not and if you choose local stone over imported then I will applaud your informed choice.

The hypocrisy is that those with the power want to cut carbon emissions by encouraging the development of green energy while they are happy to tolerate a rise in carbon emissions by encouraging sponsors of major works to import material from the Far East.

Now if you are suggesting that the Government should create the right economic conditions that would make it a no-brainer to buy local over imported, iow, if you want to stop globalisation then I support that.

Import tariffs have never been popular with British governments because the argument goes that our exports would be subject to reciprocal tariffs.

Stopping wind farms is not going to stop globalisation, is it, if that is your real gripe? In fact it will make things worse as we will have to import energy from abroad to replace it. You can still exercise your freedom to choose what you want to buy and still support wind energy.

I’m not saying we should stop wind farms entirely. But I will argue that there has to be a fair and equitable means of funding such developments and I am increasingly skeptical regarding the motives of government and developers involved with the 'green' agenda.

**secrets in symmetry** · 23-Jun-13, 22:48

Originally Posted by Gronnuck

People in the Building Supplies industry tell me that contractors undertaking major public works are buying slabs, setts, cobbles and paviours from China regardless of the Carbon emissions issue because it is cheaper. It’s been happening in Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow recently, however detailed information is difficult to access because it is being done under the cloak of ‘commercial confidentiality.’

Thanks.

Similarly, I was told that the granite for one project at my work came from China, but I have no evidence for that assertion.

**Rheghead** · 23-Jun-13, 22:51

Originally Posted by Gronnuck

The hypocrisy is that those with the power want to cut carbon emissions by encouraging the development of green energy while they are happy to tolerate a rise in carbon emissions by encouraging sponsors of major works to import material from the Far East.

Well I would say the real reason that those that have the power to cut carbon emissions are happy to tolerate a rise in carbon emissions is that they are all too cosy with the fossil fuel industries. You only need to look into detail who has interest with what to discover that one.

**Gronnuck** · 24-Jun-13, 10:51

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Well I would say the real reason that those that have the power to cut carbon emissions are happy to tolerate a rise in carbon emissions is that they are all too cosy with the fossil fuel industries. You only need to look into detail who has interest with what to discover that one.

Unfortunately corporate vested interest has always dictated government policy. I'm old enough to remember the advent of a British built Hydrogen powered car in the mid 50s, (I think it was based on the Rover P4). The prospect of the development of pollution free transport was quietly shelved because oil was cheap and the oil industry was at its most powerful.
My concern with the Renewable Energy Industry is that powerful corporations and numptie politicians are screwing energy users in their drive to fund their projects with no guarantee what-so-ever that energy users will gain any benefit. In fact it has been reported recently that energy bills would increase significantly to support the development of renewable energy. What I want to know is when are electricity prices going to level off or even come down?

**Rheghead** · 24-Jun-13, 17:16

Originally Posted by Gronnuck

In fact it has been reported recently that energy bills would increase significantly to support the development of renewable energy. What I want to know is when are electricity prices going to level off or even come down?

It has been reported alright, by right wing media outlets with an editorial bias against wind and other renewables. They've all got links to the fossil fuel industry.

We'd all want to know when fuel prices stable out. But there is one thing for sure, if you want fuel prices to stable out without the aid of renewables then you'll be waiting for a long time and getting all the more poorer for it.

**ywindythesecond** · 11-Jul-13, 00:49

Originally Posted by Rheghead

It has been reported alright, by right wing media outlets with an editorial bias against wind and other renewables. They've all got links to the fossil fuel industry.
We'd all want to know when fuel prices stable out. But there is one thing for sure, if you want fuel prices to stable out without the aid of renewables then you'll be waiting for a long time and getting all the more poorer for it.

Reggy
That answer is unintelligible. How will expensive renewable power stabilise prices?