SNP MP's

[Oddquine]

Unfortunately for both of us, we live on the same planet and I presume the same country.

In real life, feet on the ground terms, we do, but in our heads we do not appear to do so. Perception is all, and that, and life experience, form mindsets. Mine is well described in http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04...a-pendulum-do/ That is the UK I see....and not one in which I have a voice, and it appears not one in which I am going to be allowed to have a voice, if the establishment has it's way. If you see it differently, I would be interested in how you perceive your UK, given the virulence you exhibit regarding those of us who do not see the UK and its future in the same way as you do.

A quote from the article............

It suits neither left-wing, pro-independence Scots nor right-wing, unionist Englanders to acknowledge that Thatcher (and Blair, Cameron and Milliband), to a much greater degree than Salmond or the SNP, are the architects of the disintegration of Britain and the almost inevitable separation of Scotland. In the place of dead Britannia, murdered on the neo-liberal altar, we were offered the notion of the UK as a Greater England. (Or not all offered. By simple definition, there is realistically no place for the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish at this table. ) This was a worldview dominated by the Tory shires, it’s epicentre the affluent South East. Let’s be clear: Britain might have been dismembered, but the UK is not broken. This reactionary, imperialist residue of the British welfare state is functioning perfectly as a mechanism to transfer the resources of this country to a small transnational cabal of the super-rich.

While I'm not a great believer in polls or surveys, having been both polled and surveyed and seen how they can be manipulated, there has been a survey which appears to show that a relatively small proportion of NO voters actually voted No because of attachment to the UK state while by far most did so because they had economic or ‘practicality’ concerns.

If the UK, as epitomised by the Westminster sovereign buggin's turn dicatatorships, and the consequences of that unchallenged control by a self absorbed and self serving elite from all parts of the UK, continues unchanged, there will come a time, not too long from where we are now, when the risks of independence are outweighed by its benefits.

This General Election, for those who are wedded to the concept of the continuance of the UK as a union of countries, is the one opportunity to start the process of change which is needed to maintain the union. By voting SNP in May, not to "break up" the UK, but to break up the incestuous Westminster version of "democracy" which allows the few to benefit at the expense of the many, there is a chance that government may be obliged to become one nation Government for the people as a whole, as it became in the post-WWII years, rather than one for the wealthy and the corporations, as it has become in the last thirty or so.......and then, there may be no need for independence. However, the only way to make change within a Government which does not want change is to force it......and a large SNP vote in May may do that.....if independence follows from that eventually, it will be because of the failure of the Westminster system to embrace reality.

[rob murray]

In real life, feet on the ground terms, we do, but in our heads we do not appear to do so. Perception is all, and that, and life experience, form mindsets. Mine is well described in http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04...a-pendulum-do/ That is the UK I see....and not one in which I have a voice, and it appears not one in which I am going to be allowed to have a voice, if the establishment has it's way. If you see it differently, I would be interested in how you perceive your UK, given the virulence you exhibit regarding those of us who do not see the UK and its future in the same way as you do.

A quote from the article............

It suits neither left-wing, pro-independence Scots nor right-wing, unionist Englanders to acknowledge that Thatcher (and Blair, Cameron and Milliband), to a much greater degree than Salmond or the SNP, are the architects of the disintegration of Britain and the almost inevitable separation of Scotland. In the place of dead Britannia, murdered on the neo-liberal altar, we were offered the notion of the UK as a Greater England. (Or not all offered. By simple definition, there is realistically no place for the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish at this table. ) This was a worldview dominated by the Tory shires, it’s epicentre the affluent South East. Let’s be clear: Britain might have been dismembered, but the UK is not broken. This reactionary, imperialist residue of the British welfare state is functioning perfectly as a mechanism to transfer the resources of this country to a small transnational cabal of the super-rich.

While I'm not a great believer in polls or surveys, having been both polled and surveyed and seen how they can be manipulated, there has been a survey which appears to show that a relatively small proportion of NO voters actually voted No because of attachment to the UK state while by far most did so because they had economic or ‘practicality’ concerns.

If the UK, as epitomised by the Westminster sovereign buggin's turn dicatatorships, and the consequences of that unchallenged control by a self absorbed and self serving elite from all parts of the UK, continues unchanged, there will come a time, not too long from where we are now, when the risks of independence are outweighed by its benefits.

This General Election, for those who are wedded to the concept of the continuance of the UK as a union of countries, is the one opportunity to start the process of change which is needed to maintain the union. By voting SNP in May, not to "break up" the UK, but to break up the incestuous Westminster version of "democracy" which allows the few to benefit at the expense of the many, there is a chance that government may be obliged to become one nation Government for the people as a whole, as it became in the post-WWII years, rather than one for the wealthy and the corporations, as it has become in the last thirty or so.......and then, there may be no need for independence. However, the only way to make change within a Government which does not want change is to force it......and a large SNP vote in May may do that.....if independence follows from that eventually, it will be because of the failure of the Westminster system to embrace reality.

Cant argue with your qoute...It suits neither left-wing, pro-independence Scots nor right-wing, unionist Englanders to acknowledge that Thatcher (and Blair, Cameron and Milliband), to a much greater degree than Salmond or the SNP, are the architects of the disintegration of Britain and the almost inevitable separation of Scotland. In the place of dead Britannia, murdered on the neo-liberal altar, we were offered the notion of the UK as a Greater England. (Or not all offered. By simple definition, there is realistically no place for the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish at this table. ) This was a worldview dominated by the Tory shires, it’s epicentre the affluent South East. Let’s be clear: Britain might have been dismembered, but the UK is not broken. This reactionary, imperialist residue of the British welfare state is functioning perfectly as a mechanism to transfer the resources of this country to a small transnational cabal of the super-rich.

But I woud argue that large swathes of England have also suffered under neo liberalism : there is a north / south divide and power and money is in the south. I dont think it just, to simply walk away from the Welsh, Northern Irish and most of England. Leave the poor / distressed / old and ill to the mercies of neo liberal cons, nope.

[rob murray]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04...a-pendulum-do/

Have taken time to read the above, its an absolutely brilliant piece of insightful writing, thank you...my road to damascus moment. You'll here no more from me, it will take whats left of my life and well into my childrens for true "fair" change to occur as the power base / money / neo con agenda cannot be quickly changed.

[Humerous Vegetable]

Yes, Irvine Welsh is a very smart and insightful writer, and we can only hope that the other countries of the UK will take the opportunity to detach themselves from the Westminster leech, draining all their resources from them to maintain the bankers and their off-shore bank balances.

Fortunately, we in Scotland have an alternative to voting same old-same old. We are more politically aware and active than other parts of the UK,and have developed more political alternatives to Tory/Labour/Lib Dem stagnation. Let's get out there and get rid of the shackles on May 7th.

[rob murray]

Yes, Irvine Welsh is a very smart and insightful writer, and we can only hope that the other countries of the UK will take the opportunity to detach themselves from the Westminster leech, draining all their resources from them to maintain the bankers and their off-shore bank balances.

Fortunately, we in Scotland have an alternative to voting same old-same old. We are more politically aware and active than other parts of the UK,and have developed more political alternatives to Tory/Labour/Lib Dem stagnation. Let's get out there and get rid of the shackles on May 7th.

Hell I never even noticed who wrote the piece....Irvine Welsh / Trainspotting etc....didnt know he had a political / economic / philosophical well informed eye. Truly a great thought inspiring, inspirational read. Certainly put a lot of things into an understandable context for me anyway.