Fox Hunting

[porshiepoo]

buggyracer;609874]so why has the Govt not tried to ban the outright culling of foxes? to me it seems the only way this can be stopped?

I never said that there isn't a need for culling of Foxes. I daresay that in some areas there may be this need, although does anyone know what the Fox population has to reach to actually be deemed necessary to cull? And/or why?
Foxes maybe more of a nuisance in inner cities now than they ever were but this doesn't necessarily suggest an increase in population. To me it suggests that we have developed more and more of their habitat that they have little other choice.
Farmers don't like Foxes because they may prey on livestock but does this mean it is right to cull them? Not in my opinion it doesn't.

Do you honestly believe the only way to cull a Fox is to chase it down out numbered and tear it to shreds?
There are many marksmen that are more than able to take down a Fox with one shot from a rifle. The kill is much more swift and humane.

Wonder how long it will be before we cull the Fox to near extinction? May seem an unlikely outcome right now but we thought that about many species at one point or another.



The reason many people will stand against a Hunting ban is because it has become a way of life for many many people, not because they think it is the right way to keep the Fox population down.
Also many people stand against it simply because they don't like the idea of yet another civil liberty being taken away from them. They do not care about the ethics behind any of it.

[BINBOB]

And this comment proves exactly what I was talking about earlier.

An ignoramus who believes farmers are nothing more than wealthy skinflints.... thanks for that, Binbob. Right on cue......

I do not appreciate being called that....apology expected.u have ur views .I have mine,and there is absolutely nooooooooooo need to be so rude.

[Stavro]

I have shot, fished and hunted in the past.

Can someone explain to me why I am being labelled as a 'Toff' by some dimwitted types every time hunting is brought up?
Like I said earlier, a lot of this anti-hunting claptrap is nothing more than inverted snobbery from political dinosaurs who still believe in some 'class war' horseshit and people who can't hack the fact that some folk may own a patch of land and drive a fairly expensive motor.

Usually the same brainless prats who believe all farmers are 'rich' and that owning a £35k tractor is somehow a luxury. Funny that, I never hear people making snide remarks on the fact that, say, an engineering firm has just spent £35k on a CNC milling machine. Yet you don't have to go far in these septic isles to find some snide little git stabbing someone in the back purely because they own land and can afford to buy expensive kit.

Gits.

What a charming woman you sound, MrsK, with such eloquent use of the English language.

Thank God I'm not MrK.

By the way, no one envies your land, nor your "expensive kit," but if you think that you have some sort of right to slaughter animals, you are very much mistaken.

[davie]

I do not appreciate being called that....apology expected.u have ur views .I have mine,and there is absolutely nooooooooooo need to be so rude.

As one of these nasty men with rifles (horrid people in your words) perhaps when you hand it out then you should expect some back

[Stavro]

As someone who has unfortunately participated in this barbaric sport I can honestly say that it should never ever be made legal. Ever!
I used to work on a Hunting & Eventing yard and although I only participated in a hunt a few times, it was too much.
There is nothing humane about it, the dogs do not line up and one is selected for a swift kill of the fox.
The poor fox is chased to exhaustion and then is descended on by a pack of over excited hounds that the proceed to tear it apart. The excitement from the following hunt is actually quite worrying to witness and the screaming of the fox is traumatising. It's basically a frenzy.
What you have to remember as well is that some places actually protect the fox breeding grounds in order to carry out these hunts, the whole sick practice has absolutely nothing to do with keeping fox numbers down, that is simply the concept they hide behind in order to make the majority of the public accept this cruel sport.

If a rider requires this type of exercise for the horse and themselves then Drag hunting should fit the bill just as easily.
I guess Drag Hunting, which employs the use of the dogs that people are so concerned about being killed with the illegality of blood hunting, doesn't have quite the same popularity. Why is this? Simply because there is no death at the end of it and there's no neanderthal gesture of blood smearing on new comers.

If the fox population is increasing so massively, employ the use of humane equipment to deal with them swiftly and painlessly.

Very well said. A fine post and worthy contribution covering all the main points of this vile activity called fox hunting. Thank you.

[buggyracer]

I never said that there isn't a need for culling of Foxes.

nor did i say you did.

I daresay that in some areas there may be this need, although does anyone know what the Fox population has to reach to actually be deemed necessary to cull? And/or why?
Foxes maybe more of a nuisance in inner cities now than they ever were but this doesn't necessarily suggest an increase in population. To me it suggests that we have developed more and more of their habitat that they have little other choice.
Farmers don't like Foxes because they may prey on livestock but does this mean it is right to cull them? Not in my opinion it doesn't.

the law of culling foxes doesnt care for your opinion, i have seen first hand the damage caused by a fox with a taste for livestock, in this case they need culled.

Do you honestly believe the only way to cull a Fox is to chase it down out numbered and tear it to shreds?
There are many marksmen that are more than able to take down a Fox with one shot from a rifle. The kill is much more swift and humane.

i have stated before on the "rabbiting" thread, a marksman does have some degree of error, heck even military snipers dont hit there target everytime with a clean kill, a dog on the other hand either makes a catch or doesnt, and if the rabbit or fox is fit and healthy it stands more than a good chance of making its escape!

Wonder how long it will be before we cull the Fox to near extinction? May seem an unlikely outcome right now but we thought that about many species at one point or another.

Trust me a fox is far too cunning and numbers to many to allow that to happen, they are one of the most increadable wild animals to inhabit this isle!

The reason many people will stand against a Hunting ban is because it has become a way of life for many many people, not because they think it is the right way to keep the Fox population down.
Also many people stand against it simply because they don't like the idea of yet another civil liberty being taken away from them. They do not care about the ethics behind any of it.

why should the voice of a few overule the many?

[Liz]

And this comment proves exactly what I was talking about earlier.

An ignoramus who believes farmers are nothing more than wealthy skinflints.... thanks for that, Binbob. Right on cue......

Completely out of order and you should apologise to Binbob. Surely you can conduct a debate without resorting to namecalling?!

[Liz]

What a charming woman you sound, MrsK, with such eloquent use of the English language.

Thank God I'm not MrK.

By the way, no one envies your land, nor your "expensive kit," but if you think that you have some sort of right to slaughter animals, you are very much mistaken.

Very well said!

[BINBOB]

Completely out of order and you should apologise to Binbob. Surely you can conduct a debate without resorting to namecalling?!

Thank u ,Liz.

[Kathy@watten]

In any debate situation just because someone's opinion differs from your own does not make them wrong or justifies the name calling and questioning of their moral value, we should be more tollerant of opinions and not ram them down the throats of others. I personally respect those who would not participate in hunting on horseback if they feel strongly about it, but struggle to feel for the objectors who attack and prevent the hunts. The short and long of it for me is as a country person I would like to regain the right to choose, surely that is what folk want in most situations not to be told what we can and can't do? I know there is no hunt locally but if there was one I would turn out and support it and have my kids ride out with the hunt too. This doesn't make me a blood thirsty savage. On the subject of hunting on horseback...are we having a Caithness boxing day hunt? (mock of course)

[BINBOB]

In any debate situation just because someone's opinion differs from your own does not make them wrong or justifies the name calling and questioning of their moral value, we should be more tollerant of opinions and not ram them down the throats of others. I personally respect those who would not participate in hunting on horseback if they feel strongly about it, but struggle to feel for the objectors who attack and prevent the hunts. The short and long of it for me is as a country person I would like to regain the right to choose, surely that is what folk want in most situations not to be told what we can and can't do? I know there is no hunt locally but if there was one I would turn out and support it and have my kids ride out with the hunt too. This doesn't make me a blood thirsty savage. On the subject of hunting on horseback...are we having a Caithness boxing day hunt? (mock of course)

I respect ur views..although I do not agree with them/,and certainly do not approve of any violence from either side while demonstrating,which has been reported /shown on tv in the past.

[MrsK]

"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.

If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.

No apology will be forthcoming.

[Stavro]

No apology will be forthcoming.

As expected.

[BINBOB]

"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.

If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.

No apology will be forthcoming.

Well very sad soul u are..one of the most rude people I have met on the org to date...........have a good night.

[butterfly]

As one of these nasty men with rifles (horrid people in your words) perhaps when you hand it out then you should expect some back

"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.

If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.

No apology will be forthcoming.

Quite right Mrsk.

[davie]

Originally Posted by MrsK
"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.

Well very SAID soul u are..one of the most rude people I have met on the org to date...........have a good night.

[Stavro]

Yes Mrs K has lived up to our expectations. Very sad that she must hide behind a dictionary definition and not do the decent thing.

Yes, agreed. But let's not invoke another tirade!

[Tilter]

Are urban foxes culled at all, and if so, how? (Haven't seen the cavalry complete with baying hounds charging down an English high street at full throttle.)

[maverick]

"ignoramus": A description of someone who is ignorant of the facts and speaks from a position of limited knowledge. Originally a Latin legal description of having insufficient evidence to proceed in a court of a law.

If you can't handle being called something that is an apt description, tough.

No apology will be forthcoming.

well said MrsK, very appropriate comment..

[northener]

Looks like there's a few ruffled feathers on here.....must be a fox about

The fox population in urban areas has come about because of the easy pickings to be had. As far as 'loss of habitat' accounting for their appearance in our towns - I don't think this is a good argument. Foxes aren't daft, they'll go where the free meal is.

Talking to the older end in Caithness who have worked the land all their lives, it would appear that there has never been as many foxes in the Far North as there is now. The damage they can do to lambs can be quite substantial, however, fencing isn't a viable option in most situations because of the huge areas that would need to be covered. Not only that, foxes are quick to dig under obstacles when they need to.


As for some of the comments made on here about 'Toffs' and tight fisted farmers...well, there's nothing like a wildly inaccurate sterotype to give the ill-informed something to focus on.......
Certainly the Foxhound packs in the North of England are manly foot packs. And most of them have 'working' class' (hate to use a ridiculous 'class' description, but it fits, I suppose) roots. In the Holme and Colne Valleys of West Yorkshire, the millworkers had their own packs and were sometimes given the Saturday off so they could hunt. So hardly wealthy landowning and banking types, are they?

Is it cruel? Personally, I'd sooner see them shot. But there y'go.
I have no problem with people being anti-foxhunting, but it's suprising how many times references to perceived wealth and status are chucked in by the Anti mob. More to do with social division and plebs having a chip on their shoulder about money and land, methinks, rather than being 'onside' with Reynard.....

BTW 'Ignoramus' isn't an insult, it's a perfectly acceptable way of describing someone who talks about a subject upon which they have little, or ill-informed, knowledge. If you speak from a position of ignorance - you are an Ignoramus. Fact.

MrsK has put up no insult, if people do not understand the meaning of a certain word, then it is hardly fair to berate the person using it, is it?