Why independence?

[Carole]

Again this thread has grown since .... was it only yesterday morning I last looked? Have just skimmed the new posts so please forgive me if the following has already been posted by someone else.

For those who want an independant Scotland and say that they don't want Scottish affairs decided by the 'neighbours' (thinking of C3 mainly) - would it make any difference to you if the UK parliament was sited in Edinburgh instead of London? Because many of your points seem to suggest that.

The European parliament is making more and more decisions on 'our' behalf, legislating in place of our own parliaments. Should Scotland ever break away from the union, how long would it be before the independants' call -to run their own affairs for themselves is aimed at Brussels instead of London?

[John Little]

Actually my ground is shifting beneath my feet and I begin to feel a minority.

Any more British people out there?

[Shabbychic]

Actually my ground is shifting beneath my feet and I begin to feel a minority.

Any more British people out there?

Try Portgower. I'm sure there'll be a few knocking about there.

[John Little]

Try Portgower. I'm sure there'll be a few knocking about there.

Serious question.

Is there a constituency out there that wishes to maintain the British state?

[Carole]

......freeing ourselves from the reigns of Westminster

or perhaps losing the ability to influence the wider world as the UK is bound to have greater standing than four much smaller countries?

[Carole]

Actually my ground is shifting beneath my feet and I begin to feel a minority.

Any more British people out there?

I've always considered myself British - still quote Brit / Scot whenever asked to complete my nationality on forms.

[Shabbychic]

or perhaps losing the ability to influence the wider world as the UK is bound to have greater standing than four much smaller countries?

Why would a smaller country have less say? We are the same size as Denmark, New Zealand, Norway and Finland for example. They seem to do OK.

[squidge]

Ok John. I think that ultimately people WILL have a say. What we are talking about here is a referendum for Scotland's people to say what their wishes are. Let's assume the majority of Scotland votes for independence. The next step surely will have to be to take this to Westminster. It will have to be ratified by the UK and that may possibly be through a UK wide referendum on the break up of the union.

We shall see but that's what I would see happening. Didn't something similar happen in chekoslovakia before it broke up?However Let's not get ahead of ourselves tho. The Scottish people must have the first say and that is what we need to focus on just now.

And Weezer I gave you a few arguments to be going on with.....

[pmcd]

Yup. British. We have a lot to be proud of, and have made only as many mistakes along the way as the next country. Also, we've got one Lulu of a Queen. Do you see Big Eck pulling off a number like HMQ did in Ireland? That's why the notion of "President Blair/Brown/Cameron/Clegg" fills me with horror. Annexing Balmoral and Mey was the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha's final territorial claim, and we have all done brilliantly as a result.

As to the Independence lark - great for posturing, pride, and patriotism. Pragmatically, not so hot. A couple of years of happy flag waving, followed by pollitical slaughter of the "government" by the extremely poor and peed off population, as all the money runs out and the country goes pear.

I said somewhere else, before (as did somebody famous) "It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive".

[ducati]

Why would a smaller country have less say? We are the same size as Denmark, New Zealand, Norway and Finland for example. They seem to do OK.

Yeh the world rocks everytime they speak

You are looking for an 'independent' Scotland and already want to interfere in the rest of the world?

[ducati]

Serious question.

Is there a constituency out there that wishes to maintain the British state?

Don't worry John, once the serious questions are asked and the cold hard light of day falls on the reality of what the nation is likely to be like for the next 50 years or so, I see the enthusiasm of the wreckers waning.

[Walter Ego]

Oh come on Golach, read the news !!
There at least 4 murders a day in England, gang warfare on the streets of London, young kids with guns never mind the amount of knives and other weapons. Tube trains bombed, buses bombed, marches that end up in anarchy and violence, abductions and beatings and paedophiles are rife, do you want me to go on?
If the Lennon case is the best you can come up with it just reassures me that we live in a safe place, all he has had is a punch in the face, he hasnt been knifed or shot has he??
I know where I feel safest anyway, it has to be Scotland everytime and Ducati and others that dont feel safe have nothing to worry about!!


C3.....

You've not been to a big city in Scotland recently, have you?

Actually, I'll rephrase that - you've not dared to walk round a big city in Scotland off the beaten track at night recently, have you?

Your comments are unsubstantiated bluster. Nothing more.

There's more chance of you getting your head stoved in or knifed/mugged in Scotland as there is in England. Plus you conveniently forget we have a population of 6 million whereas England has over 50 million - so obviously there will be more reported crime in the media England.
Also, guess what? The UN stated in 2005 that Scotland was ranked higher than England and Wales when it came to violent crime in general. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle568214.ece

Oh, I nearly forgot, Scotland currently ranks as second in Europe when it comes to murder with 2.33 deaths per 100k as compared to Englands' 0.7 deaths per 100k.

Care to comment on that little fact?
Lose the dewy eyed view of Scotland and I might take you seriously. Or will you just blame the Tories?




Like I said before, we need to move forward with a clear head - not get bogged down with ridiculous myths.

[Corrie 3]

Care to comment on that little fact?
Lose the dewy eyed view of Scotland and I might take you seriously. lol]

I am not bothered if you take me seriously or not Mr.Ego.......All I know is that I feel much safer in Glasgow or Edinburgh than I do in London or Birmingham. I have never had any trouble in Scotland where as in England I have had a few set to's just because of my accent!!!
But arent we getting off topic here ?

C3......

[weezer 316]

Why would a smaller country have less say? We are the same size as Denmark, New Zealand, Norway and Finland for example. They seem to do OK.

Yes they do ok.....but even combined they have a fraction of the influence the UK does! On an economic footing, Norway is far ahead, but Denmark is the most heavily taxed nation on earth. I have no doubt you would moan to the high heavens if the tories brought in taxes similar to what the danes put up with

[weezer 316]

I am not bothered if you take me seriously or not Mr.Ego.......All I know is that I feel much safer in Glasgow or Edinburgh than I do in London or Birmingham. I have never had any trouble in Scotland where as in England I have had a few set to's just because of my accent!!!
But arent we getting off topic here ?

C3......

A ha, busted! I could have sworn you were taking the pi** all along with some of your ludicrous statements..........or maybe your just a nationalist!

Look, trust me, born and brought up in Glasgow, its one crazy place. Once seen a bloke hit with a hammer on my way to school in the morning and the assailant ripping his wallet out his pocket before he even hit the deck. Its a madhouse, the murder capital of Europe. Thats says it all

[golach]

When you have seen as much of England and the World has I have weezer you will change your mind, trust me!!! As I said, you are still young !!C3.....

I maybe a tad owlder than you Corrie 3, and have travelled the World and England a lot more than you, I was a Merchant Seaman for 8 years and was 3 times round the world by the time I was 21, but I would not say I was any wiser than anyone, so weezer, you carry on.

[Corrie 3]

I maybe a tad owlder than you Corrie 3, and have travelled the World and England a lot more than you, I was a Merchant Seaman for 8 years and was 3 times round the world by the time I was 21, but I would not say I was any wiser than anyone, so weezer, you carry on.

What makes you think you are older than me Golach? Or seen more of this wonderful world??
And you and weezer can carry on, I know where my vote is going!!!
Time for me to get out of this abattoir before it gets nasty!!

C3.....

[bekisman]

I am not bothered if you take me seriously or not Mr.Ego.......All I know is that I feel much safer in Glasgow or Edinburgh than I do in London or Birmingham. I have never had any trouble in Scotland where as in England I have had a few set to's just because of my accent!!!
But arent we getting off topic here ?

C3......

It's safe in Scotland?
19th May:
"An Edinburgh march highlighting women's right to safety has been rescheduled because of safety fears. The Reclaim the Night march will pass pubs where fans are expected to be watching the Champions League football final and a rugby match on 28 May. Edinburgh city council asked Reclaim the Night to change the march route and start at 2000 BST instead of 2100 BST.

March organisers agreed to change the time but insisted they will stick to their route through the Grassmarket.

It will now take place at 2000 BST instead of 2100 BST, starting at the Festival Square on Lothian Road.

Laura Leith, spokesperson for Edinburgh's Reclaim the Night march, said: "The council made it clear to us that for the march to go ahead we'd need to make changes like moving it forward by an hour and remaining silent through the Grassmarket to ensure safety of marchers.

"I hope the hypocrisy of this is not lost on local councillors and officials. Either the centre of Edinburgh is not safe for women or the council was over-reacting."
Council officials originally suggested the march should be re-routed to avoid the popular Grassmarket pub area, but organisers insisted they wanted to stick to their itinerary.
Lothians Labour MSP Kezia Dugdale said: "The whole point of Reclaim the Night is to give women a voice and empower them to feel safe in their own community - that's why they do it at night.
"They want to walk past the strip bars and rowdy crowds to make the point that woman have a right to feel safe on the streets."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13456306

[Kells]

A ha, busted! I could have sworn you were taking the pi** all along with some of your ludicrous statements..........or maybe your just a nationalist!

Look, trust me, born and brought up in Glasgow, its one crazy place. Once seen a bloke hit with a hammer on my way to school in the morning and the assailant ripping his wallet out his pocket before he even hit the deck. Its a madhouse, the murder capital of Europe. Thats says it all

I spent over 40 years in Glasgow at all times of the day and night and never had a problem and done so recently as well. A daughter in Glasgow Police force in one of the so called worst areas of Glasgow and she found them the salt of the earth and she walked on her own at night in uniform through the streets of Glasgow without a problem. So trust me it is no madhouse whether it is the murder capital of Europe or not.

[weezer 316]

I spent over 40 years in Glasgow at all times of the day and night and never had a problem and done so recently as well. A daughter in Glasgow Police force in one of the so called worst areas of Glasgow and she found them the salt of the earth and she walked on her own at night in uniform through the streets of Glasgow without a problem. So trust me it is no madhouse whether it is the murder capital of Europe or not.

Im sorry, this is brash, but I dont believe you for a second A single police officer, alone is some areas of glasgow is like curry to a pisshead. I have seen young boys lob stones at passing police just for the chase, and im talking 9/10yo. Infact there is huge areas of the city where it is prohibited to walk alone in uniform at any time simply becuase the locals have little else to do but smash a passing bobby. Same for paramedics, not allowed to go alone

I was once told if your gonna lie, make it a truthful one.