Foxes

[veekay]

is there anyone out there doing pest control? We are inundated with these pests and could do with some control.

I was going to say is there anyone out there shooting these b----y things but the pc brigade wouldn't like it.

[Gronnuck]

It's time to allow farmers and country folk to get on with culling foxes. If that means dashing about the countryside in red coats in company with lots of beagles then so be it.
I've seen the damage foxes do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.

[Leanne]

I've seen the damage foxes do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.

That's not actually what happens - that is human perception of an event. Take the example of a chicken coop... Foxes are clever - if there is a mass of easy prey they will kill it all and hide what it can't eat for when pickings are slimmer. A fox that didn't do this would be at a disadvantage.

What actually happens is the fox raids the coop and bites off all the heads because the brain is the most nutritious part of the bird. The fox will then remove the bodies one by one. The reason it looks like the fox has killed them all and left is because they usually get disturbed before they are finished.

The majority of rural foxes will not attempt to break into a chicken coop - it is a dangerous undertaking. The ones that tend to do so are the ones that are old or sick (easy to catch food is worth the risk of being caught) or the foxes that have become humanised and lost their fear (foxes may be cute but feeding them doesn't help the farmers). It the pre-ban days the foxes that tended to get caught were these same foxes - the ones that didn't/couldn't run. The foxes that survived were the healthiest and wariest and were also the ones to cause least problem to farmers.

I've said before on other threads that I used to be anti-hunt but since the ban I have changed my viewpoint. Indiscriminate shooting is not going to help the fox as a species - though it is necessary from a farming viewpoint.

One thing that hunting with dogs definitely has over shooting is that there is a 'season' for it. Namely when they are not breeding and the weak are at their weakest. Shooting at this time of year is much more cruel than hunting with dogs could ever be. There are still young very much dependent on their mother who will starve to death if hunting is done at this time of year. The best time of year to minimise the impact is autumn and winter.

[Boozeburglar]

I've seen the damage horse and hound hunts do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.

Foxes can be controlled humanely and efficiently, no need to return to the bad old days. Incidentally many of those involved in the traditional hunts are far from being country folk.

[porshiepoo]

It's time to allow farmers and country folk to get on with culling foxes. If that means dashing about the countryside in red coats in company with lots of beagles then so be it.
I've seen the damage foxes do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.

Are you serious?
Foxes kill for food end of.
Fox hunting with hounds is one of the most barbaric blood sports and has been banned for ruddy good reason.
Witness a fox hunt and then you come on here again and let us know who is actually killing 'for the sheer pleasure of the kill'.

[Leanne]

Foxes can be controlled humanely and efficiently,

But effective is not necessarily best for survival of the species Foxes will soon go the way that wolves went

Anyway this is not a debate about the rights or wrongs of hunting/shooting it is about finding veekay someone with a gun. Sorry for taking it off topic myself...

I'm sure you'll find someone happy to help - people often ask if there is anyone willing to let them shoot on their land. Most humane hunters though will not do so in breeding season - you may find you need to wait.

[porshiepoo]

That's not actually what happens - that is human perception of an event. Take the example of a chicken coop... Foxes are clever - if there is a mass of easy prey they will kill it all and hide what it can't eat for when pickings are slimmer. A fox that didn't do this would be at a disadvantage.

What actually happens is the fox raids the coop and bites off all the heads because the brain is the most nutritious part of the bird. The fox will then remove the bodies one by one. The reason it looks like the fox has killed them all and left is because they usually get disturbed before they are finished.

The majority of rural foxes will not attempt to break into a chicken coop - it is a dangerous undertaking. The ones that tend to do so are the ones that are old or sick (easy to catch food is worth the risk of being caught) or the foxes that have become humanised and lost their fear (foxes may be cute but feeding them doesn't help the farmers). It the pre-ban days the foxes that tended to get caught were these same foxes - the ones that didn't/couldn't run. The foxes that survived were the healthiest and wariest and were also the ones to cause least problem to farmers.

I've said before on other threads that I used to be anti-hunt but since the ban I have changed my viewpoint. Indiscriminate shooting is not going to help the fox as a species - though it is necessary from a farming viewpoint.

One thing that hunting with dogs definitely has over shooting is that there is a 'season' for it. Namely when they are not breeding and the weak are at their weakest. Shooting at this time of year is much more cruel than hunting with dogs could ever be. There are still young very much dependent on their mother who will starve to death if hunting is done at this time of year. The best time of year to minimise the impact is autumn and winter.

OMG I've heard it all now.
Shooting is more cruel than hunting them down with a pack of dogs?? You honestly believe that?


I, unfortunately, can claim to have the displeasure of fox hunting with dogs - no excuse but it was part of the job description (I worked with Hunters and Eventers).
After the fox has been tracked and chased for many many miles by a mob of idiots on horseback and a pack of eager, bloodthirsty hounds the poor thing is set on by the dogs and literally ripped to shreds.

You talk of 'season' for hunting? The reason for this is to protect the fox young because they are needed for the following seasons blood thirsty sport.
Do not be mis-guided into believing that this is purely for cub protection, it's purely for the protection of the sport.
In actual fact I knew of places where Fox were 'protected' to some extent as the area was known to produce a decent amount of huntable Fox.

I know there are risks involved with shooting of Fox but I also know that it is much kinder to get a clean shot and a swift kill from a bullet than to be chased, scared beyond belief and then shredded in front of a jubilent pack of idiots on horseback.

The ONLY reason a person hunts on horseback is for the thrill, they do not do it to keep the Fox population under control (though they may use that guise) nor do they have any forethought or afterthought of the poor creature they have just murdered.

[Shabbychic]

is there anyone out there doing pest control? We are inundated with these pests and could do with some control.

I was going to say is there anyone out there shooting these b----y things but the pc brigade wouldn't like it.

Just out of curiousity, what damage are these foxes actually doing on your land?

[Leanne]

OMG I've heard it all now.
Shooting is more cruel than hunting them down with a pack of dogs?? You honestly believe that?

You talk of 'season' for hunting? The reason for this is to protect the fox young because they are needed for the following seasons blood thirsty sport.

It may not be the 'reason' that fox hunting was done then but it did stop the young from starving to death due to the death of a mother. I also stated that any hunter (with guns) is unlikely to shoot at this time of year for that very reason.

I believe a quick death from hounds is less cruel than several cubs starving to death.

In fact I think they are both cruel but it is something that we are unlikely to get away from any time soon.

Why do you give me a lecture about how hunting happens? I'm sure I said pre-ban I was anti... I'm slowly changing my views due to the very reasons you have said. Your argument actually sways me for the reintroduction of hunting with dogs - the very fact that the population is protected as you said ensures the continuation of the species. How it is now doesn't.

OP - please think of this as a free bump. I understand where you are coming from (I have chickens that I am trying to protect) and am sure someone will be able to help.

[Shabbychic]

I believe a quick death from hounds is less cruel than several cubs starving to death.

But it's not a quick death from hounds, is it? The chase can last for hours, during which time the terrified fox runs itself to exhaustion before the dirty deed is done.

[Thumper]

But it's not a quick death from hounds, is it? The chase can last for hours, during which time the terrified fox runs itself to exhaustion before the dirty deed is done.

Tried to rep for this but yet again I have to spread it around first,very well said though! And so true,and even more so is the point that the cubs would still starve to death,the fox wont go into the den while being chased by hounds,for exactly that reason-to protect their young! Fox hunting is cruel, no matter how anyone tries to make it "justified" x

[Gronnuck]

I apologise if I've offended anyone's sensibilities however I did start my post by saying, “It's time to allow farmers and country folk to get on with culling foxes”. I mentioned hunting with dogs because that’s what most of us are familiar with. I could have just as easily said, “by shooting guns all over the place”. The main thrust of my posting is that farmers and country folk are more likely to know best how to resolve the issue.

As regarding the killing of chickens etc. I accept your explanation Leanne, however it does nothing to alleviate the feelings of revulsion anyone feels when they go out to collect their eggs in the morning.

[Leanne]

Tried to rep for this but yet again I have to spread it around first,very well said though! And so true,and even more so is the point that the cubs would still starve to death,the fox wont go into the den while being chased by hounds,for exactly that reason-to protect their young! Fox hunting is cruel, no matter how anyone tries to make it "justified" x

But hunting doesn't happen during the breeding season so this doesn't happen. I'm by no means justifying it - as I have said many times now - pre-ban I was anti. I'm not sure what I am now but I am definitely for whatever allows the continued protection of the species as a whole

[Thumper]

Any way has to be done humanely,growing up in the country i know that foxes can be a problem as can other species but I cannot abide anyone who chooses to dispose of the problem by the easiest or "most rewarding" manner(not that I am saying you would before its misread that way) I used to do a lot of riding and couldnt bare to go to hunts,mocks were fine but not the real thing,infact I cannot abide hunting for pleasure of any kind,but again thats my choice and belief,others have different beliefs,not that that makes it right though x

[veekay]

Just out of curiousity, what damage are these foxes actually doing on your land?

Not my land but my live stock.

[Leanne]

Not my land but my live stock.

They love playing with lambs

No blood or gore in the pic don't worry but shut your eyes if you're easily offended....

[Shabbychic]

They love playing with lambs

No blood or gore in the pic don't worry but shut your eyes if you're easily offended....

Seen this before. It is one of a series of shots taken from a holiday cottage. It was also stated that this lamb fought off the fox and ran away unharmed.

[Leanne]

Seen this before. It is one of a series of shots taken from a holiday cottage. It was also stated that this lamb fought off the fox and ran away unharmed.

Aw that's a nice ending

[Anfield]

Not my land but my live stock.

I don't suppose for one minute that you have considered ensuring that your livestock are safe and secure?

There have been various threads about this issue and it emerged that there are ways of keeping your livestock safe.

I imagine that you are concerned with the economic loss of your animals, so I will pose a question for you

Would you leave a £50/20 note or whatever in an open place without making sure that is secure?

[chiel]

I don't suppose for one minute that you have considered ensuring that your livestock are safe and secure?

There have been various threads about this issue and it emerged that there are ways of keeping your livestock safe.

I imagine that you are concerned with the economic loss of your animals, so I will pose a question for you

Would you leave a £50/20 note or whatever in an open place without making sure that is secure?

how do keep yours safe and secure?