Sir Cliff Richard

[scorrie]

Cliff suffers the innuendo that comes to every famous male person who isn't rabidly having sex with every female readily available to such pop stars.

Perhaps he IS a closet homosexual but that is his business, so long as the business is conducted consensually and at the appropriate age of legality.

I don't like his music, nor the way he comes across as an egotist who thinks God is there to cater to his personal sensibilities. It is as fake a notion of true Christianity as you could hope to witness. Add in the vanity of botox injections and you have the picture of a man who forgot that beauty is skin deep and that you can't enter heaven on the back of selling records and bumming yourself up (pun can be taken or left as disposition allows)

It is a question of whether your name should be pulled through the mud before a) We establish there actually is mud, and, b) The person was actually in contact with it

I don't think it comes down to Homophobia, I believe it is more a case of a general perception of deviation from the considered "normality" that we expect people to conform to.

It puzzles me that someone like Ulrika Jonsson, who had four children to four different men, and even managed to bed the fossil Sven Urine Erikson, is considered a more normal member of society, and if we were to suggest that she may be buried in a Y-shaped coffin there would probably be an outcry regarding feminism.

It's a funny old game as Jimmy Greaves might say.

[Kevin Milkins]

A very well balanced post, scorrie. It is only since this story broke that I came to thinking, " who are the Cliff Richard fans that made and keep him famous" I don't know of anyone that would admit openly to being a fan.
As you have pointed out, it is only reasonable to assume his innocence of the allegations against him before being fed to the wolves.
I see his 1992 record "I still believe in you " is back in the charts as a result of his following supporting him.

[joxville]

If he has nothing to hide, why has he pulled out of Children in Need?

I'm not aware of that so my guess is he doesn't want to draw unfavourable attention to Children in Need. Regardless of that, it still doesn't excuse Transit finding him guilty before he's been arrested about any alleged offence, it's like going back to the Middle Ages and accusing someone of witchcraft without any proof. If he's subsequently arrested and found guilty of any offence then I hope he's locked up for a long time, however, until then, he's deemed innocent.

[Phill]

It puzzles me that someone like Ulrika Jonsson, who had four children to four different men, and even managed to bed the fossil Sven Urine Erikson, is considered a more normal member of society, and if we were to suggest that she may be buried in a Y-shaped coffin there would probably be an outcry regarding feminism.

Eh!
What the actual?

Even as trolling goes, this doesn't make sense.

#patriarchalmuppet

[gerry4]

Perhaps he IS a closet homosexual but that is his business, so long as the business is conducted consensually and at the appropriate age of legality......


It is a question of whether your name should be pulled through the mud before a) We establish there actually is mud, and, b) The person was actually in contact with it

I don't think it comes down to Homophobia, I believe it is more a case of a general perception of deviation from the considered "normality" that we expect people to conform to.

.

Scorrie, I think you are missing the point, it is not if he is homosexual or not. I could not give a dam about his sexuality. It is if he has had sex with children. I don't know for sure but an allegation has been made that he has & that needs to be investigated. All to often this has been covered up, just look at Saville.

So far as not making it known if someone is being investigated. Who should someone famous have different treatment to a nobody. look at how many people came forward in the Saville, Hall & Harris cases, once they had gained the courage to speak about it once they knew they were not the only ones.

Being abused as a child affects you for the rest of your life. Many children believe they will not be believed, especially if the person is 'famous' or 'powerful'. Those in the past have been ignored by the police etc and so don't speak up again but the pain is still there.

Every complaint of child abuse must be investigated for what it is. What ever pain that can be takeaway from those who have been abused must be taken away but the pain & hurt will never go away. It is a lifetime sentence for them.

[Heisenberg]

Scorrie, I think you are missing the point, it is not if he is homosexual or not. I could not give a dam about his sexuality. It is if he has had sex with children. I don't know for sure but an allegation has been made that he has & that needs to be investigated. All to often this has been covered up, just look at Saville.So far as not making it known if someone is being investigated. Who should someone famous have different treatment to a nobody. look at how many people came forward in the Saville, Hall & Harris cases, once they had gained the courage to speak about it once they knew they were not the only ones.Being abused as a child affects you for the rest of your life. Many children believe they will not be believed, especially if the person is 'famous' or 'powerful'. Those in the past have been ignored by the police etc and so don't speak up again but the pain is still there.Every complaint of child abuse must be investigated for what it is. What ever pain that can be takeaway from those who have been abused must be taken away but the pain & hurt will never go away. It is a lifetime sentence for them.

well said Gerry4

[sids]

It puzzles me that someone like Ulrika Jonsson, who had four children to four different men, and even managed to bed the fossil Sven Urine Erikson, is considered a more normal member of society, and if we were to suggest that she may be buried in a Y-shaped coffin there would probably be an outcry

She sexually abused a small car on Vic & Bob's Shooting Stars tv show. What a cowbag!

[joxville]

Was it a Ford KA-KA-KA? :-)

[sids]

Was it a Ford KA-KA-KA? :-)

Don't think so.

http://youtu.be/aV_Cjy9TQP8

[mi16]

You would've though

[scorrie]

Scorrie, I think you are missing the point, it is not if he is homosexual or not. I could not give a dam about his sexuality. It is if he has had sex with children. I don't know for sure but an allegation has been made that he has & that needs to be investigated. All to often this has been covered up, just look at Saville.

So far as not making it known if someone is being investigated. Who should someone famous have different treatment to a nobody. look at how many people came forward in the Saville, Hall & Harris cases, once they had gained the courage to speak about it once they knew they were not the only ones.

Being abused as a child affects you for the rest of your life. Many children believe they will not be believed, especially if the person is 'famous' or 'powerful'. Those in the past have been ignored by the police etc and so don't speak up again but the pain is still there.

Every complaint of child abuse must be investigated for what it is. What ever pain that can be takeaway from those who have been abused must be taken away but the pain & hurt will never go away. It is a lifetime sentence for them.

How can I be missing the point? I have addressed the main point in my reply, as well as the speculation regarding Cliff's sexuality.

You stated "It is if he has had sex with children", the key word there is IF.

Why should someone's house be raided based on an accusation? Surely the person should be interviewed first and have the chance to defend themselves? Is it right that Police should tip off the BBC that they are going to break into a celebrity's house?

I am not asking for famous people to get special treatment from the law. I am asking that they get the same respect any human being would get regarding being presumed innocent until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

I would imagine that the percentage of children molested by famous people, as opposed to those molested by members of their own family, or strangers without any iota of celebrity, is a very tiny number and the fear that children have in speaking up is going to apply to almost every situation of abuse and not just where the perpetrator is well known to the public.

The people who disgust me are those who would not speak up against Jimmy Savile, for example, because it would have hurt their careers to have done so. I think that is a pathetic excuse for tolerated what were clearly vile acts against minors and Paul Gambaccini put forward that very reason for not blowing the whistle on Jimmy Saville. However, he went on to be arrested himself as part of Operation Yewtree, so maybe time will tell he had another agenda.

The problem with celebrities in the spotlight is the issue of how many of the people who then come forward are genuine victims who have gained confidence to speak out and how many are hoping to make a few quid out of it?

Remember, William Roache was put through the mill and found not guilty on all charges. As he said, there were no "winners" the day he was cleared.

[scorrie]

Eh!
What the actual?

Even as trolling goes, this doesn't make sense.

#patriarchalmuppet

And your point is?

[Phill]

Point is, what I said the first time.
A rambly nonsensical ranty that doesn't make sense.

[scorrie]

Point is, what I said the first time.
A rambly nonsensical ranty that doesn't make sense.

Well if you can't be arsed explaining it then that's fine. Everybody else seemed to know what I was getting at.

What gives you the right to suggest I was trolling though?

I think that judgement is for moderators and/or owners of the site to make. Did you report the post? If not then you should have, instead of putting some half-assed critique in reply. I didn't ask for your tuppence worth, which would actually have failed to meet the trade's description's act in value for money in this case anyway.

I don't know what your agenda is here Phill and I don't see you going round this form pointing out things that you consider to make no sense, things that you consider to be a rant or things that you consider to be trolling. If you were to do so you would probably be fairly busy and I am pretty sure you would come across stronger examples than those you accuse me of.

I wonder if you realise how pompous and judgemental you sound barging in with nothing to say about the actual thread and acting like both a moral and qualitative guardian of the forum. It might be best to appraise your own work here before climbing into your ivory tower to pass judgement. I mean your statement a "nonsensical ranty that doesn't make sense"?

Perhaps you might give us an example of a nonsensical ranty that DOES make sense?

I am a veteran of this forum, although hardly visiting in recent years. I have had a few nice comments since coming back but along you come making me feel about as welcome as a jobbie in a jacuzzi.

I get the vibes that you are not keen on either me or my style but you should really stick to what you do best and keep the gentle jokes coming along, not forgetting to brush the dust off them first of course.

[Phill]

What gives you the right to suggest I was trolling though?

This...

and if we were to suggest that she may be buried in a Y-shaped coffin there would probably be an outcry regarding feminism.

The nonsensical and patriarchal bit is how you insinuate it is fine for a bloke to do what he wants to sexually but not for a woman.

Judgemental! Moi?

I have had a few nice comments since coming back but along you come making me feel about as welcome as a jobbie in a jacuzzi.
I get the vibes that you are not keen on either me or my style

I don't have a problem with you or your style, I do apologise if my comments make you feel unwelcome, truly I do.



As for me having an opinion, tough.

[scorrie]

This...

The nonsensical and patriarchal bit is how you insinuate it is fine for a bloke to do what he wants to sexually but not for a woman.

Judgemental! Moi?



I don't have a problem with you or your style, I do apologise if my comments make you feel unwelcome, truly I do.



As for me having an opinion, tough.

You have completely the wrong end of the stick Phill. I was not comparing men and women.

I was comparing someone who has a questionable sexual orientation, and who was supposedly celibate for long periods of his life, with a woman who has chosen a life where numerous candidates have been seen to fit the the role of fathering her children.

It is coincidental that a woman was chosen in this case for comparison, there are many men who would have fitted the bill as well but it is somehow more surprising for me to see a woman with little regard for her self image and it seemed a good polar opposite to me when Ulrika's name popped into my head.

The point I was trying to make was that if Cliff Richard were seen with a different woman on his arm every other week there wouldn't be the accusation that he was gay and with that the belief that somehow homosexuals are more open to corruption than we good old hetero boys and gals.

I didn't see you taking any issue with the suggestion that Cliff Richard had his gnashers round the old latex Slumberland, whilst someone came from out of the shadows to play a game of hide the Frankfurter, so it's a bit harsh to single me out for the muppet moniker.

You are 100% entitled to your opinion but name calling belongs elsewhere in my opinion, particularly when it is towards people you know little or nothing about. You wouldn't say that to my face in person, so why do so here?

[budgeJ]

I was comparing someone who has a questionable sexual orientation....I didn't see you taking any issue with the suggestion that Cliff Richard had his gnashers round the old latex Slumberland, whilst someone came from out of the shadows to play a game of hide the Frankfurter, so it's a bit harsh to single me out for the muppet moniker.

Here comes another homophobe who clearly feels threatened by the prospect that some people might have some different sexual orientation to themselves (assuming they themselves have any sexual orientation at all).

[Phill]

"Accusation" As if its a crime to be gay.
I don't have an issue at the suggestion he may be gay as 1, I don't know either way and I can't recall if he has stated whether he is or not. 2, it doesn't bother me if he or anyone else is gay.
Why do you believe homosexuals are more open to corruption, seems quite a backward view.

Hmm... 'good old hetero' does this mean 'homo' is bad?
'latex slumberland' why would someone want to eat a bed?
'Hide the Frankefurter' Did the Shadows record that? I don't think I've heard it, was it in the Rocky Horror Show?

And why would Ulrika need to be buried in a Y shaped coffin?

[scorrie]

"Accusation" As if its a crime to be gay.
I don't have an issue at the suggestion he may be gay as 1, I don't know either way and I can't recall if he has stated whether he is or not. 2, it doesn't bother me if he or anyone else is gay.
Why do you believe homosexuals are more open to corruption, seems quite a backward view.

Hmm... 'good old hetero' does this mean 'homo' is bad?
'latex slumberland' why would someone want to eat a bed?
'Hide the Frankefurter' Did the Shadows record that? I don't think I've heard it, was it in the Rocky Horror Show?

And why would Ulrika need to be buried in a Y shaped coffin?

We'll leave it there Phill, there is enough to put up with with my pish without you resorting to it too in a vain attempt at humour.

[scorrie]

Here comes another homophobe who clearly feels threatened by the prospect that some people might have some different sexual orientation to themselves (assuming they themselves have any sexual orientation at all).

I am busy defending Cliff Richard here, not condemning him. It is clear to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that I am referencing the public perception and the innuendo regarding his orientation.

I am married with 2 kids and have a few friends who are gay, both male and female.

You haven't put many posts on this site yet and I suspect you are going to find life hard here if you stick to following people around from a disagreement on another thread trying to make accusations when you clearly haven't picked up the gist of the argument correctly.

"Sing if you're glad to be gay"