Frozen dog meat???

[crustyroll]

I have never seen a commercial feed create an acute life threatening problem (might have happened, I just have never seen it).

So you have never seen bloat? I have never known of a dog to get bloat from eating a barf diet but I have known dogs getting bloat from eating a commercial diet, be it expensive or rubbish, there is usually no distinction.

Don't forget that the meat you are feeding your dog raw is not a rabbit or someother animal living wild in normal population densities.

How do you know I don't feed my dogs rabbits whole so that they are eating what they would in the wild? I don't go to Tesco's or the Co op and buy packs of meat to feed my dogs. They get tripe, rabbit, chicken, heart, lungs, bones, kidney, liver, muslce meat, tendons, cartlidge, so I think they are getting pretty much most of the animal and it's whats fed long term rather than short term that benefits their health. They wouldn't eat a whole carcass in one day, unless it was a pack, they would bury part of it and probably go back to it and remember they are selective in what part of the animal they eat first and not all dogs eat all parts of an animal, scraps are left for others.

[_Ju_]

So you have never seen bloat?

Are you talking about bloat followed by stomach torsion? If so there is a link with gas producing foods or dry foods with certain perservatives (usually found in the cheapest dry foods, FYI). However there are many many reasons for gastric dilation and torsion, many of which have to happen in a chain. The most important one of which is genetics. Genetically we produced deep chested animals with longer gastric ligaments when we bred these susceptable breeds. Ultimately yes we are responsible because we breed defects into our dogs (defects that we cannot see, that are associated with the standards trying to be acheived). Even then there is the requirement of excercise after feeding. Dry food is not always (or even usualy) present in cases of stomach dilation and torsion. Where as the long stomach ligament, deep chest and "boisterosity" always is.
By the way, out of curiosity, why are the unbiquitous canned humid foods not as vilified by barfers when, in my opinion, they are alot worse than most dried foods?

How do you know I don't feed my dogs rabbits whole so that they are eating what they would in the wild?

Fife animal food products:

Best Tripe, Puppy Tripe, and Tripe Chunks
Minced Chicken, Lamb, Beef and Venison etc
Knuckle Bones, Ribs and Hooves, Pigs Ears
Chicken Wings, Carcasses,Turkey Necks, Chicken Necks and Fillets dried Food, Biscuits and Mixer

You might buy them from somewhere else, but no....these guys dinna sell rabbits, so I know that you do not always feed your dogs wild rabbits (even if they did sell rabbits, they would be industrially farmed rabbit). Which means I have come to an unaddressed point: every product above is produced intensively, and therefore much more likely to carry food bourne diseases than a wild carcase would.

I am not going to convert you and I can tell you right now that there is nothing anyone can say that would change what I know to be true about what we feed our dogs. Have you ever see a 6 month old golden retiever die from one time he scarfed a chicken bone from the bin? I have. He was in agony and no one could do anything for him. He had the "pleasure" of 6 months of cronic peritonitis that was caused by an undetectable splintered piece of chicken bone. Yet chicken wings are on the menu of a natural healthy diet? Have you ever cleared the impacted anal passage of a dog who pulverises bones? It's one of those jobs that you have to see and smell to appreciate.

This thread began with the DOMESTIC cooking of butchers mince being discussed. It was defended that this is less nutritional. The science does not defend this position. The cooking can resolve the possibility of food bourne diseases and better the digestibility of the mince. By all means feed your dog meat and/or offal, it is not only good for them, but they love it! But THINK about what is in it. Could it have salmonella, campylobacter, E Coli or some other disease that could make your pet or your family ill? Could it contain parasites that were missed at inspection? Could it contain bones? This discussion has verred off into me somehow in the dried foods corner against the "BARFers". I can only say that there are alot of different kinds of dried food. In the dry pet food arena you basically get what you pay for. Just like what happens in human food shopping oddly enough!

[Incognit0]

Don't forget that the meat you are feeding your dog raw is not a rabbit or someother animal living wild in normal population densities.

I actually do feed my dogs whole rabbit, they also have whole chicken carcasses (minus the breasts and legs) and take for themselves the occasional (read frequent ) rat.

My dogs are vaccinated and wormed regularly and have a regular digestive system and a lovely gloss to their coat (without the film that you get with commercially prepared dog food - go and stroke your dog, do you feel that residue on your hand? You don't get that with a mainly BARF diet).

E Coli, Campylobacter and C diff are not diseases that affect healthy dogs - canine digestive systems cope with bacteria like this much better than humans - my dogs have eaten all sorts on walks (half dead deer, rotting fish, you name it!) and they have never had diarrhoea or sickness.

My dogs also have a their diet supplemented with a small amount of cereal based working dog food - basically to get their cereals into them....

I do agree with you about the whole tinned food thing - bad, but I can't find anywhere on the thread where a BARFer is advocating it.

[Aaldtimer]

..."half dead deer"...??? The mind boggles!!!

[_Ju_]

I actually do feed my dogs whole rabbit, they also have whole chicken carcasses (minus the breasts and legs) and take for themselves the occasional (read frequent ) rat.


My dogs also have a their diet supplemented with a small amount of cereal based working dog food - basically to get their cereals into them....

I do agree with you about the whole tinned food thing - bad, but I can't find anywhere on the thread where a BARFer is advocating it.

I am very glad that you have never had the negative experience of splintered chicken bones ( rabbit can also be a risk, thou they tend to make less sharp splinters) or impacted feaces in any of your dogs. May it never happen though I wouldn't take that bet on an animal of mine.
Cereal is pretty much undigestible for dogs. Vegetable based dog food would be better. Or whole grain rice based.
I never said anything about BARFers supporting tinned food. What I said was BARFers are decrying dried foods ( which this thread was not about, but yes about cooking meat domestically) as if I were defending them all. Yet alot worse than most dreid foods, even the muck of them, is tinned food, yet absolute silence over them. Reading a post in it's entirety instead of diagonally might save you time searching threads.