3 Month Old Baby Boy Mauled to Death

[_Ju_]

Not mauled but I have heard of babies being smothered by cats.

Complete myth. Absolute folklore. Oldwives tale. Cats generally dislike the smell of human breath and will avoid it (unless you just ate a juicy tuna steak which I think we can all agree most babies don't do).

What is dangerous are owners who have no idea of their dogs' needs, behaviours and psycology. These two dogs, from what was described in the news, were behaving exactly as a pack of dogs do. The fact that they were dominant agressive and of superior status in the pack was down to their owner, who allowed the staffie to be pack leader. A stressor was badly introduced to the pack, in the form of a new member, by the weakest pack member. The dominant dog choose not to accept this new member. The weakest pack member left the baby unattended/unsupervised/in a room with dogs she obviously did not understand. So the dominant dogs did what dogs do in a pack with a problem. The dog owner, the scient and responsible individual in this sad story, did not take the care that was needed because she was complacent with her animals. The unfortunate result is another family destroyed, a grandmother who will blame herself alot more than anyone else will and yet another dog/breed vilified for having an inadequate owner.

[cat]

theres a lot of ignorant people out there who shouldnt have dogs .i know a couple who live nearby who have 3 kids under 7,the youngest still in a pram who have tooken on a staffie aged 5 because the owner doesnt want it.this dog is left indoors much of the day because they havent got the time or energy to walk it.dont people realise these dogs need a lot of exercise.a dog couped up all day is just asking for trouble and with 3 kids around .how does that family trust a dog they havent brought up from puppyhood and how can they be sure its safe around their children.this same dog got loose one day and jumped my fence into my garden and attacked my dog,my husband tried to get a grip of it but it had no coller on so it was difficult .we eventually turned the hose on him and that saw him off.the police were useless,they didnt want to know.will it take a tragedy to make them waken up,i really hope not

was interested to read this as my neighbours dog also jumps fence when i walk past.it has always done this whether i had dogs with me or not and it then one day decided to attack and has now done this to all three of my dogs.i tried to grab its collar and it turned on me,thankfully i pulled my hand away.i hit it and im not ashamed to say kicked it,the owner came out and shouted a lot too and it still wouldnt stop.dont know what made it stop but it just jumped back into its garden and that was it. police did nothing,although they did have a word with neighbour and they said they would make garden secure.nothing has happened yet though and meanwhile i cant walk my dogs as we have to pass this house.

[bekisman]

It can be any dog:
"Six people, including two children, were injured when they were attacked by two German shepherd dogs which ran loose in Filton, Bristol."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7879021.stm

[Sandra_B]

Our nextdoor neighbour has a big dog who barks like mad when anyone goes near their garden. This dog has also chased our 7 year old up the driveway while he screamed in terror...what did neighbour do? Laugh and say "Poor baby".

This is a man in his late 50's/early 60's and he think his dogs behaviour is funny. We can't walk out the door if his dog is loose without it running over and barking like mad at us.

People never seem to think their dogs behaviour is dangerous...

[Moderator]

Thread will be closed if it continues down the road of personal attacks.

[porshiepoo]

Whilst 'blaming' the dogs would be folly. Your post suggests a certain understanding of pet dogs eating babes in arms. A 'pet' conditioned into domesticity will not usually try to eat children. These dogs, whatever pre-programmed genetic condition urged them to do so
acted abnormally and although 'blame' is meaningless a certain degree of indignant bewilderment and total intolerance to this kind of savage, bestial behaviour is understandable. We expect more from our pets ! We usually get it.

I'm glad the dogs were destroyed whether to 'blame' or not.
Blame is a human reaction to a human emotion. It would be entirely ill fitting in a canine concept. Dogs brains are deficient...yet often seem superior to some of the idiots who parade them up and down our streets.

These dogs were actually NOT behaving abnormally for the animal.
Perhaps they were behaving abnormally for what we define a "pet conditioned into domesticity" should, however, that just proves that it is the ignorant human who is at fault.

No matter what kind of training / conditioning we undertake with dogs we cannot forget that they are first and foremost an animal with hunting and survival instincts.
We may choose to tell ourselves that dear old Fido would never do such a mad or "savage" or "abnormal" thing but without a true, indepth understanding of the canine brain it is ignorant of us to assume such a thing.

Instinct will always, always be prevalent in canines and as Instinct is not a learned behaviour it can never be bred out. Any key stimulus such as a crying baby CAN (not definately will) trigger an instinctual behaviour.

If a person decided to take a Lion cub into his home and is one day found to have been attacked and killed by the Lion what would the majority of peoples reaction be?
I bet 99.9% would either say, Stupid idiot for A) having a lion in the first place and B) thinking he could domesticate it and expect it to behave as a human would in an unnatural enviroment.

The same goes for the canine. Although we have domesticated it to an extent we will never change it from what it is - an animal, a canine, and as such will never eradicate its canine / animal instinct.

In answer to your comment, yes, I do "understand" a dog killing a human, I understand the nature of the animal and I understand how a circumstance can result in what happened to this child.
But that does not mean that I have no sympathy for the parents and grandmother of the child, of course I do I'm a mother myself, however I also have sympathy for the dogs who were reacting as their instinct dictates they always will.

One of the few ways to help eradicate these tragic incidences is education and by education I mean an understanding of a pack mentality.
I'm not saying we should all become Dog Whisperers but there are many many simple behaviours that we can put into play that will help establish a pack leadership.
This kind of understanding is an absolute must as far as I am concerned because the more we attempt to humanise these animals instead of understanding how they work, the more of these maulings are going to occur.
Our only way at the moment is to categorise certain breeds as "dangerous dogs" , it's bizarre really especially as ALL breeds have the ability to be dangerous in the wrong hands.
If we all start to understand that and look at how we can work with our dogs to prevent it then the happier we'll all be - man and dog.

[porshiepoo]

Our nextdoor neighbour has a big dog who barks like mad when anyone goes near their garden. This dog has also chased our 7 year old up the driveway while he screamed in terror...what did neighbour do? Laugh and say "Poor baby".

This is a man in his late 50's/early 60's and he think his dogs behaviour is funny. We can't walk out the door if his dog is loose without it running over and barking like mad at us.

People never seem to think their dogs behaviour is dangerous...

And it's idiots like that that actually cause half of these attacks by dogs.

How can any person - male / female, young / old actually think that that kind of behaviour from a dog is funny or acceptable?

I hope there hasn't been any lasting scars to your son? Has it made him afraid of dogs?

All I can suggest is informing the relevant authorities every single time he allows the dog to behave this way.
I know it would probably be very difficult to do but please do try to completely ignore the dog. Do not make any eye contact with it, do not speak to it and try your damndest not to run from it. (I am assuming you have a boundary wall between you here?)
Whenever you go out the door, take a deep breath, head up, shoulders back and try to walk calmly to your gate.
I'm not saying it'll work but it just may make it back off if it doesn't see you as a weak energy.
Screaming kids will have a disastrous effect on an unstable dog.
I know it's not fair that your kids shouldn't be able to jump, scream and do whatever the heck they want in their own front yard but I would suggest that until there is some resolution to this problem that you explain to the kids that the dog must only ever see a calm energy from them.
Scream and jump etc whenever the dogs inside by all means but not when he's out.

The owner of this dog needs to be strung up and prevented from ever having dogs as far as I am concerned.
There is a huge possibility of this dog doing some damage to someone in the future and unfortunately there's as much chance that nothing will get done about the man until something does happen.

I really hope you manage to get this sorted. You should not have to put up with being terrorised by a dog whose owner finds it amusing.

[percy toboggan]

when i mentioned it to my vet,he said to be carefull as i had a young child and because they were not a recognised kc breed i could be getting anything and they could be very aggresive.

Non- kc breeds are the best of the lot - they call 'em mongrels down here !

Vets love pedigree dogs with all their inbred defects.

Gimme a mutt anytime.

[router]

All dogs have the potential to be aggressive towards children. Now the headlines states child killed by SBT and Jack Russel. well lets look at both dogs in the sense of which is more likely to attack.

We all know what a staffie is capable of but i found this on the JR.

Im shocked as i never thought JR were this hard to handle. now it explains why many are rehomed before one.

http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php

I feel for the parents of this child and i hope that they will be able to forgive the mother who left the child alone with these dogs.

[percy toboggan]

These dogs were actually NOT behaving abnormally for the animal....
.

an emphatic reply but a wrong one.
You mistake the term 'normal' for natural. It is NOT normal for dogs to try to eat babies...although it may be natural.
Therefore the dogs were acting abnormally...it's all in the language.
Your other points had some validity.

Ju: Another emphatic dismissal...often your trade mark - 'old wives tales...cats smothering infants.'

It's happened. Indeed it happened less than half a mile from my parents house in 1959. The cat didn't mean to do it...nobody attached blame...apparently it fell asleep across a three week old babies face. Cat was attracted by the warmth and the traces of milk I expect.

[Connolly47uk]

a hink staffys are gr8 dogs its the way the ppl treat them

[percy toboggan]

Our nextdoor neighbour has a big dog who barks like mad when anyone goes near their garden. This dog has also chased our 7 year old up the driveway while he screamed in terror...what did neighbour do? Laugh and say "Poor baby".

This is a man in his late 50's/early 60's and he think his dogs behaviour is funny. We can't walk out the door if his dog is loose without it running over and barking like mad at us.

People never seem to think their dogs behaviour is dangerous...

If this dog, or any other came close to me or mine and invoked terror on a regular basis I would not hesitate to clobber it. I used to be a Postman c.1970's , long, long ago...and found the best form of defence against angry , territorial or vicious dogs to be 'attack' Make a lot of noise....buy a baseball bat. If the old bloke reacts badly tell him to consider taxidermy.

I was bitten once - by a Weimaraner thing - smoky grey with evil eyes like glaciers...cold and haunting. The companies Boss made light of it...he had to collect the mail for the next three months because I didn't.
I took on two Lassie type
Collies on their own front path one day and they ran off...not to be seen for hours apparently. (Iwas shaken by the experience)

A discarded stilletto shoe proved ideal ammunition for a brief encounter with a staffordshire bull terrier type mutt....stocky ,plug ugly and loose on a particularly rough estate. It advanced baring teeth and growling. I was a bit feart ! Yelling made it stop in its tracks...kiciking it in the head made it turn around in flight as I picked up the shoe and caught it right up the 'arris.

I like dogs but I know their place...which is not causing a nuisance much less attacking folk.
Short shrift is all they deserve when they do.

I might not be quite so gung-ho nowadays but I'd not think twice about hurting a dog that wanted to hurt me....or mine.

[unicorn]

For people being bothered by neighbours dogs here in Uk maybe you could quote the government policy to the police.


Dogs out of control in a public place

If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place - then the owner or the person in charge of the dog is guilty of an offence, or, if the dog while so out of control injures any person, an aggravated offence under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. In proceedings against a person who is the owner of a dog but at the material time was not in charge of it, it should be a defence for the accused to prove that the dog was at the material time in the charge of a person whom he reasonably believed to be a fit and proper person to be in charge of it.
Section 10(2) of the 1991 Act defines a public place as meaning any street, road or other place to which the public have, or are permitted to have access. This is a wide definition of a public place and one which specifically includes the common parts of a building containing two or more dwellings. It is intended to cover, for instance, those parts of a block of flats where, although there may be a secure front entry door so that the interior of the flat is not a place to which the public has unrestricted access, nevertheless the common parts are, in all other respects, a public place.
A person found guilty of an offence may face imprisonment or a fine, and the courts may disqualify the offender from having custody of a dog for any period

[cat]

thanks unicorn.i know that failing to to control a dog in a public place is an offence,and the policeman i spoke to was very understanding and agreed with me.lets just say my neighbour is in the same line of work though and is in complete denial about her dogs behaviour.
there is only one other neighbour that has to pass her house and they no longer walk their dog past,as they can go out in the fields,which is what i would do,but we have in lamb sheep in ours and i have a pram to push so the fields are out of bounds for me.she did suggest that i phone every day when i am going out,this is totally unreasonable and would solve nothing as i could be gone for half an hour or three hours,maybe im supposed to call from my mobile when im on my way home too!!

[porshiepoo]

an emphatic reply but a wrong one.
You mistake the term 'normal' for natural. It is NOT normal for dogs to try to eat babies...although it may be natural.
Therefore the dogs were acting abnormally...it's all in the language.
Your other points had some validity.

Ju: Another emphatic dismissal...often your trade mark - 'old wives tales...cats smothering infants.'

It's happened. Indeed it happened less than half a mile from my parents house in 1959. The cat didn't mean to do it...nobody attached blame...apparently it fell asleep across a three week old babies face. Cat was attracted by the warmth and the traces of milk I expect.

Hmmm, I beg to differ. If a certain behaviour is instinctual then it is "normal" for the animal displaying it.

Percy Toboggan: Heroic and warranted as your past behaviour may have been, I certainly would not recommend that a mother with children attempts to take on a dog of any kind.
Perhaps you've been lucky in the sense that your retaliation made the animal think twice but it could just as easily turned out differently.

[JAWS]

What is dangerous are owners who have no idea of their dogs' needs, behaviours and psycology. These two dogs, from what was described in the news, were behaving exactly as a pack of dogs do. The fact that they were dominant agressive and of superior status in the pack was down to their owner, who allowed the staffie to be pack leader. A stressor was badly introduced to the pack, in the form of a new member, by the weakest pack member. The dominant dog choose not to accept this new member. The weakest pack member left the baby unattended/unsupervised/in a room with dogs she obviously did not understand. So the dominant dogs did what dogs do in a pack with a problem. The dog owner, the scient and responsible individual in this sad story, did not take the care that was needed because she was complacent with her animals. The unfortunate result is another family destroyed, a grandmother who will blame herself alot more than anyone else will and yet another dog/breed vilified for having an inadequate owner.

Spot on. A family I knew had a German Shepherd. The family was made up of mother, father and several grown up children from 40 years old downwards. Eventually the elderly father died and, what had been a calm quiet family pet suddenly began attacking the other family members.
They just couldn't understand the reason. It turns out that the father had been the person who was in charge of the dog and on his death had decided that it was time to make a bid for "Top Dog".
The only solution, before any of the family got seriously injured, was to have the dog put down because it was not going to accepts anybody else in place of the father as pack leader.