Tasers are instruments of torture. Official.

[fred]

Poor response Fred.

I don't think many pregnant women go round kicking in peoples heads.

Angina - irrelevant. If you can't do the time.....

Time is something you do after being found guilty by a jury of your peers, we have a fundamental right in this country called presumption of innocence. You are making the police into judge jury and executioner.

If you are trying to claim that tasers will only ever be used in cases where huge fit men are kicking someone's head in I just don't believe it.

[bekisman]

"Bekisman, I suspect that most folks would use it in the initial frisson of danger..aren't the police trained precisely not to act on such impulses? Surely thats the point in having a trained police force and not disintegrating into a vigilante culture. Karia"

What impulse?, I was giving a situation of great danger being faced by a Police Officer, what has 'vigilante culture' got to do with it? (I would expect that a taser would be used to protect life and limb, we're loosing the plot here, it's not a gun that could blow a hole in someone, it's an electric shock..)
It is a FACT that my best friend; Police Constable John Schofield was shot dead on 6 July 1974 (I'm looking at a photograph right now of him and I hitchhiking in Holland) - which maybe colours my thoughts on this, and the namby pamby waffle from certain quarters of 'oh no don't use a taser, it might hurt the person' is something that lies in the realms of tinted glasses and an unreal utopia..

[golach]

If you are trying to claim that tasers will only ever be used in cases where huge fit men are kicking someone's head in I just don't believe it.

Fred, policeman have used great big muckle sticks called truncheons, since Robert Peels time, tasers are just a modern upto date truncheon, not seen you complaining about truncheons

[karia]

"Bekisman, I suspect that most folks would use it in the initial frisson of danger..aren't the police trained precisely not to act on such impulses? Surely thats the point in having a trained police force and not disintegrating into a vigilante culture. Karia"

What impulse?, I was giving a situation of great danger being faced by a Police Officer, what has 'vigilante culture' got to do with it? (I would expect that a taser would be used to protect life and limb, we're loosing the plot here, it's not a gun that could blow a hole in someone, it's an electric shock..)
It is a FACT that my best friend; Police Constable John Schofield was shot dead on 6 July 1974 (I'm looking at a photograph right now of him and I hitchhiking in Holland) - which maybe colours my thoughts on this, and the namby pamby waffle from certain quarters of 'oh no don't use a taser, it might hurt the person' is something that lies in the realms of tinted glasses and an unreal utopia..

yes, it's an electric shock...(what fun!).but also one that ties up a lot of resources...and hurts!
Rightfully so.. as everyone in a so called 'civilised situation' must be accountable for their own actions and zapping someone with electricity to 'stun them' is at the very least something that needs accounted for.

I am sorry to hear of your friend..no one should die a violent death at the hands of a weapon.

That is why tasers aren't universally available and we have to make do with
slagging one another off


My fear is that if the 'power' is there..no-one will think twice about using it!

Kariaxx

[fred]

Fred, policeman have used great big muckle sticks called truncheons, since Robert Peels time, tasers are just a modern upto date truncheon, not seen you complaining about truncheons

No tasers aren't truncheons, a policeman has control over a truncheon, it can give a gentle tap or a hard rap to any part of the body, an arm, a leg, a shoulder. A policeman knows that if he inflicts the same degree of pain with a truncheon as he can with a taser he is going to do serious damage and leave a lot of bruises. A policeman knows what to expect when he hits someone with a truncheon, he hasn't been lied to by the truncheon manufacturers marketing department.

[northener]

Time is something you do after being found guilty by a jury of your peers, we have a fundamental right in this country called presumption of innocence. You are making the police into judge jury and executioner.

If you are trying to claim that tasers will only ever be used in cases where huge fit men are kicking someone's head in I just don't believe it.

Regarding 'Time': as in - If you are not prepared take a direct response to your direct action.

ie: If you are using extreme violence against another human being, then be prepared to meet extreme violence (where necessary) in return to stop you. If you aren't prepared accept that response, then don't start the problem in the first place.

But Fred, you knew exactly what I meant anyway. Semantics, old chap


'Huge fit men': They don't have to be. Youd be very suprised what even a small lightly built person is capable of. Put a knife in their hand and it gets even worse...

I must say Fred, your perception of what really goes off on the streets of this fair country of ours appears to be woefully inadequate.

If you 'don't believe it', then there is very little else to be said.
I say controlled use, you say no use. Period.

I just hope that it's never someone who is close to you that is being beaten senseless in a quiet leafy suburb somewhere.

.

[fred]

Regarding 'Time': as in - If you are not prepared take a direct response to your direct action.

ie: If you are using extreme violence against another human being, then be prepared to meet extreme violence (where necessary) in return to stop you. If you aren't prepared accept that response, then don't start the problem in the first place.

But Fred, you knew exactly what I meant anyway. Semantics, old chap


'Huge fit men': They don't have to be. Youd be very suprised what even a small lightly built person is capable of. Put a knife in their hand and it gets even worse...

I must say Fred, your perception of what really goes off on the streets of this fair country of ours appears to be woefully inadequate.

If you 'don't believe it', then there is very little else to be said.
I say controlled use, you say no use. Period.

I just hope that it's never someone who is close to you that is being beaten senseless in a quiet leafy suburb somewhere.

.

What I said about making the policeman judge jury and executioner still applies. You say a small person can be just as bad, if not worse than a big person? So a small aggressive person attacks a big placid person, the police arrive and see the two fighting, jump to conclusions and use the taser on the big person, the big person has a heart attack and dies. Judge jury and executioner.

I know a little about what goes on on the street, I know that there is an entire generation of young ethnic people on the streets of our cities who feel they are oppressed, unfairly targeted by our police force, I know what affect seeing policemen walking around with side arms will have on them.

[northener]

What I said about making the policeman judge jury and executioner still applies. You say a small person can be just as bad, if not worse than a big person? So a small aggressive person attacks a big placid person, the police arrive and see the two fighting, jump to conclusions and use the taser on the big person, the big person has a heart attack and dies. Judge jury and executioner.

So therefore we do what?

[northener]

I know a little about what goes on on the street, I know that there is an entire generation of young ethnic people on the streets of our cities who feel they are oppressed, unfairly targeted by our police force, I know what affect seeing policemen walking around with side arms will have on them.

There's an entire generation of young people, not just people of a different ethnic background out there that have serious social issues...

It's more to do with the fact that a lot of the ethnic minorities are forced for economic reasons to live in inner city sinkholes and estates with a lot of poverty and a high crime rate.
More of a certain group in a high crime area = more chance of them being questioned by the police.

I dont see what ethnicity and perceived social inequality has got to do with this thread? Unless you are suggesting that our police force will deliberately target minority groups with Tasers!

[fred]

I dont see what ethnicity and perceived social inequality has got to do with this thread? Unless you are suggesting that our police force will deliberately target minority groups with Tasers!

That has been the case in other countries.

A recent study in Houston showed that 63% of people tasered were black, Houston has a 25% black population. 93% of those tasered were unarmed.

After the disproportionate targeting of ethnic minorities with the stop and search laws in Britain why would they believe it would be any different with tasers?

[Solus]

What percentage of crimes are commited by black people in Houston ? that may show why so many were tazzered , it may not, but it may have a baring on why.

and you dont need to be armed to be dangerous,

[scorrie]

What percentage of crimes are commited by black people in Houston ? that may show why so many were tazzered , it may not, but it may have a baring on why.

and you dont need to be armed to be dangerous,

The relationship between race and crime is analysed here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIkLc...eature=related

[fred]

What percentage of crimes are commited by black people in Houston ? that may show why so many were tazzered , it may not, but it may have a baring on why.

In 350 out of the first 900 incidents there was no crime, either no charges were brought or the charges were thrown out.

and you dont need to be armed to be dangerous,

Exactly, the police don't need tasers.

[Solus]

but you can be a danger to yourself or others through your actions, and a sudden stop is needed.

I have before been armed with only a baton and to get close enough to use was difficult nor did it appeal to my self preservation feelings !