Failures of the SNP!

[The Horseman]

If I am reading anything that resembles reality, the Scottish Gov’t is failing miserably!
The promise of 580 homes was relegated to 50!
£15 Bbbillion in debt...that should never have happened.
£2000 per person in debt...way above average.
Now those who advocate Their ‘deliverance’ out of Debt........what say U?
So Sad for a proud Country....And Salmond still being defended at the ‘public purse’!
And of course...... . the Secret Celebrity. Likely many more than one!
Another...What say U? Ty.

[orkneycadian]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Horseman, but what you are reading is true, and the Scottish Government is indeed failing us miserably. The continued obsession with the neverendum is blinding a proportion of our population who can't or won't see what is really going on. They still seem to hark back to that cover picture on the Daily Record with 25 £20 notes laid out in a fan and the headline "£500 for every Scot if we vote Yes". Poor things.

Some thought that the SG was doing a good job in their handling of the Conoravirus scam. But everyday now, Scotland's efforts are put to shame by Wales. Our economy is tanked, but this seems to be the intention of the SG, so it can be blamed on Westminster.

I agree, it's quite sad how some in our country have painted us all in a corner. Just to try and get their way. Hopefully the conned amongst us will wake up and smell the coffee in the near future and we can start to rebuild our country, with all this neverendum nonsense put behind us fir once and for all.

[Gronnuck]

£15 Bbbillion in debt...that should never have happened.

To be in debt, one has to borrow money. The Scottish government in Holyrood doesn't have borrowing powers? My question is who borrowed such a large amount of money on Scotland's behalf?

[The Horseman]

To be in debt, one has to borrow money. The Scottish government in Holyrood doesn't have borrowing powers? My question is who borrowed such a large amount of money on Scotland's behalf?

It would appear ‘Debt’ should be replaced by ‘Deficit’.

[Gronnuck]

Ahh the GERS deficit of £15.1Bn. How do you think we arrived at that?
What GERS is asking you to believe is that with just 8.2% of the UK population Scotland created between 54% and 60% of the UK deficit. It did not. The Holyrood government would not have chosen to spend much of the cost charged to it by the UK government. In a normal, independent country Scotland would not have chosen to pay for the Trident nuclear weapon system, HS2, the new Hinkley Point C nuclear power station, London’s Crossrail etc. The list goes on; projects that are of no benefit whatsoever to the people of Scotland. The ‘deficit’ is the proportion of the UK’s much bigger deficit that is foisted upon Scotland.

[orkneycadian]

With the above logic, we in Orkney and Shetland should keep all our oil money up here, and now allow Holyrood to squander it on vanity projects that have no benefit to Orkney or Shetland. All that spending on motorways, Gaelic road signs, in fact, anything south of the Pentland Firth.

[Gronnuck]

With the above logic, we in Orkney and Shetland should keep all our oil money up here, and now allow Holyrood to squander it on vanity projects that have no benefit to Orkney or Shetland. All that spending on motorways, Gaelic road signs, in fact, anything south of the Pentland Firth.

Last time I looked Orkney and Shetland were part of the country that is Scotland and have been so since 1472.

[mi16]

Last time I looked Orkney and Shetland were part of the country that is Scotland and have been so since 1472.

Nothing to stop them going for a referendum to become independent once again though is there, if the will of the people say so?
There is no grounds for anyone to object.

[orkneycadian]

Indeed not, MI16. We are constantly told that we should not be ruled by people in a big city way down intje south east, and that we should be free to run ourselves. And last time I looked, Scotland was part of what it's known as the UK and had been so since 1707.

[Gronnuck]

And last time I looked, Scotland was part of what it's known as the UK and had been so since 1707.

The difference is that the UK is not a country. The UK is suppose to be an historic union of equals. However that equality has not existed for a long time now and many people in Scotland say it is time to dissolve the union. History tells us that the union was created under duress and the people of Scotland have paid the price ever since. It's time for Scotland to be a normal country.

A couple of questions for you orkneycadian; are you happy to be ruled by an administration that the vast majority of Scots have not voted for since 1955? Do you really believe that the Westminster government represents true democracy when the elected body, House of Commons with 650 MPs is dwarfed by the unelected body, the Lords with 811 peers?

In all the time I've visited this forum I've never come across any proposal from you regarding the best way forward for Scotland and the people of Scotland....

[orkneycadian]

I am sure this has been discussed several times before, Gronnuck but it is not appropriate for the separatist movement to be selective about their definitions of "units of opinion". We can consider such units to range from households, through villages, parishes, towns, cities, counties, regions, countries, kingdoms, whatever comes next that covers the EU......,continents and finally planets.

The Scexiteers, and those who would rather we stayed in the EU are especially guilty of "unit of opinion manipulation" when they repeatedly take the result of a UK wide referendum, and break down the results, not just to country level, but to constituency level to try and further their agenda. That is wrong. If we have a "unit of opinion" then that's what it should be. So if we, as the country of Scotland, vote to stay in the UK, then that is the result. Is we, as the UK,vote to leave the EU, then that is the result.

Being selective about the unit is opinion is getting to be a rather tiring tactic of the Scexiteers, and results in "copycat kickback" from folk like myself to show the Scexiteers how daft it looks from the other side.

In that regard, and to answer your question, neither Orkney nor Shetland have ever voted to be ruled by the SNP. Not since 1955, not ever. We got quite close a few years ago by returning a liberal MP, and having a liberal / conservative coalition. But we have never returned an SNP MP or MSP, but we get ruled by an administration wet did not vote for. See how daft you're argument seems from the other side now?

I have made no secret of what I think is best for Orkney, Scotland and the UK, but I will reiterate that, as a proposal, as you wish.

"I Orkneycadian, propose that the results of the referendums of 2014 and 2016 be fully respected, and that Scotland remains part of the UK and that the UK leaves the EU. If these settled wills are respected, I propose that Orkney remains part of Scotland. If however, these settled wills are overridden by a dictorial government, then I propose that Orkney be given the choice of what it's future shall hold"

[Gronnuck]

Thank you Orkneycadian for your response.
You argue, “So if we, as the country of Scotland, vote to stay in the UK, then that is the result.” Indeed. I voted ‘No’ in 2014. However, the promises made by the advocates of ‘better together’ didn’t materialise or were diluted and I, and many others, felt aggrieved.
You argue, “we, as the UK,vote to leave the EU, then that is the result.” This despite the ‘better together’ argument that if Scotland wanted to stay in the EU it would have to stay within the UK.
Surely you can see that there have been significant material changes in government policy since September 2014.
The ‘units of opinion’ that are my immediate concern are the UK as represented by Westminster, and Scotland as represented by Holyrood.
Final question, if I may; Why do you think the current Westminster Conservative government is best for Scotland?

[orkneycadian]

Gronnuck, I don't go an for the "promises" made by politicians in the run up to elections and referendums. Instead, I look at the bigger picture and where applicable, previous track records.

Just take the SNP for example. How long have they been promising us RET for the Northern Isles? And have we got it? Nope. And what of the "once in a generation / lifetime" claim? Cast aside with regret it was ever uttered.

The inescapable fact within Scotland is that the needs, and wishes of the islands and places like Caithness are very different from the Southern Belt. Here, we see Westminster more attuned to the islands than we see Holyrood as. Something like 15% of the UK population live in the "vicinity" of Westminster, whilst 80% of the Scottish population live in the "vicinity" of Holyrood. This I believe it's why Aberdeen got so shafted a few weeks ago, when compared to Glasgow this week. If it's north of Perth, it's off no interest to Holyrood unless its oil, fish or electricity.

[Gronnuck]

Okneycadian, I empathise with your issue with RET for the northern isles. I campaigned with many on the issue of the Skye Bridge tolls, it was a long hard fight but it uncovered some unsavoury behaviour by corporate bodies, individuals and politicians hidden under the guise of ‘commercial confidentiality’. I wonder if something similar is applicable to RET.
IMO you quote the, "once in a generation / lifetime" claim” erroneously. It was a rhetorical flourish to encourage people to get out and vote, which they did. Politicians use this type of rhetoric all the time; remember Boris Johnson’s statement that he would, "rather be dead in a ditch" than ask Brussels for a delay to Brexit?
I appreciate people living on the northern isles will have a different perspective regarding politics in the UK, but surely you see what is happening in England. The growth of xenophobia, isolationism and ethnic nationalism. The right-wing have turned quite nasty! IMO Scotland deserves better, we are outward looking, internationalist and take pride in our very diverse civil patriotism.
I see the SNP as a means to an end – independence – then I will probably vote Liberal and/or Green.
You propose that, “Here, we see Westminster more attuned to the islands than we see Holyrood is,” I’m interested to know more.

[mi16]

Okneycadian, I empathise with your issue with RET for the northern isles. I campaigned with many on the issue of the Skye Bridge tolls, it was a long hard fight but it uncovered some unsavoury behaviour by corporate bodies, individuals and politicians hidden under the guise of ‘commercial confidentiality’. I wonder if something similar is applicable to RET.
IMO you quote the, "once in a generation / lifetime" claim” erroneously. It was a rhetorical flourish to encourage people to get out and vote, which they did. Politicians use this type of rhetoric all the time; remember Boris Johnson’s statement that he would, "rather be dead in a ditch" than ask Brussels for a delay to Brexit?
I appreciate people living on the northern isles will have a different perspective regarding politics in the UK, but surely you see what is happening in England. The growth of xenophobia, isolationism and ethnic nationalism. The right-wing have turned quite nasty! IMO Scotland deserves better, we are outward looking, internationalist and take pride in our very diverse civil patriotism.
I see the SNP as a means to an end – independence – then I will probably vote Liberal and/or Green.
You propose that, “Here, we see Westminster more attuned to the islands than we see Holyrood is,” I’m interested to know more.

As you stated he said he would rather be dead in a ditch.
He didnt say he would be dead in a ditch.

[orkneycadian]

You propose that, “Here, we see Westminster more attuned to the islands than we see Holyrood is,” I’m interested to know more.

Orkney doesn't want Scotland to leave the UK. Westminster doesn't want Scotland to leave the UK. It's quite simple really.

[Gronnuck]

Orkney doesn't want Scotland to leave the UK. Westminster doesn't want Scotland to leave the UK. It's quite simple really.

Good morning Orkneycadian, Politics is never simple.
It’s unfortunate you were unable to answer my question more fully. I was hoping you would be able to tell me what positive benefits the Westminster government has bestowed upon the northern isles.
In the majority of your posts you appear to take great delight in belittling Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP despite their continued success at the polls. Yet you appear silent, neither positive nor negative, on the behaviour of the Tory government in Westminster, which you appear to support. Is that because you can see Boris Johnston do no wrong?

[orkneycadian]

Good morning Gronnuck.

The thread is titled "Failures of the SNP" so the discussion topic is more about where the SNP have cocked up, rather than where Westminster has done well. But since you ask, you will be aware of Boris' recent visit to Orkney where many millions of growth funding was announced. Meanwhile, at the same time, the SNP's mouthpiece rag, The National, took a picture of 3 seperatists outside Kinloss barracks, badged it as "Crowds in Orkney" and published it on their site. They also derided the local shelfish industry by calling partans "silly props". So whilst BJ takes the trouble to come here to announce all the good the UK government are doing, the best the SNP and thir journalists can muster up is a few badly captioned pictures.

Success in the polls does not translate into success on the ground, necessarily. And in fact, the SNP have had nothing but failure in the polls (if we are talking elections) in Orkney and Shetland. They have never once come in first place, let alone gained a majority of votes.

And yes, Boris can do wrong - He has failed us quite badly since the start of the year on the Conoravirus con. The only saving grace, if you can call it that, is that he has not done as badly as Nicola Sturgeon has, and at least has made a better job of trying to minimise the impact on the rUK economy.

[Gronnuck]

orkneycadian Yes I was aware of Boris’s visit to Orkney and the fact that he announced £50 million investment to match the £50 million over ten years that Michael Matheson the Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity had announced for the Islands Growth Fund. You can’t deny the Scottish government’s interest in supporting a wide range of matters like infrastructure, but including tourism, energy transition, innovation, and skills in the northern isles.
I won’t comment on what the ‘National’ printed; I’m aware of their bias just as I’m aware of the bias across the whole of the MSM.
As regards the First Minister's handling of the Covid issue, I see you already have threads on that issue.

[orkneycadian]

Yes, the First Minister's handling of the Conoravirus issue is unravelling by the day. So much for her "flagship leadership policies" being the envy of the UK. The New York Times has an interesting interactive graphic on their site this morning (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...rus-cases.html) - Click on images to enlarge.



Showing that Scotland is second from the top of the "new cases per 100,000 league", second only to Northern Ireland. England are doing a marginally better job than Scotland and Wales are well ahead of the pack.

Drilling down into the Scotland data;



We can see just how bad the SNP are handling this in their "home territory" of the Southern Belt. Now, remember, Aberdeen got a full hospitality lockdown when their new cases reached 14 per 100,000. Scotland as a whole has 17 per 100,000 according to the above, and the western end of the southern belt are more than 2 and a half times that. But yet, the SNP will not deny their main support base the right to go to the pub for a swally, as they did Aberdeen. Instead the message from the SNP for Glasgow is "Dinnae gan and meet yer pals at their hoose, gonnae go and meet them at the boozer instead?"

Meanwhile, poor old Aberdeen who bore the brunt of the SNP's political point scoring the other week, and Grampian being the area in which Aberdeen is counted, records just 6 new cases per 100,000.

This is supposed to be "world class leadership" in handling this shamdemic, but yet, the published figures show the complete opposite. Scotland is making a complete pigs ear of it within the UK, and another pigs ear of it within Scotland. Only Northern Ireland is doing worse. We should be learning from those that are making a better job it than Scotland, viz, England and Wales.