Separatist hypocrisy

[Oddquine]

If there is another indy ref, what do you do if you don't win it?

Carry on voting SNP, solely on the principle of independence, until the consequences of Brexit start to bite, enough 16/17 year olds start voting and older people of my age group stop voting, so Scotland's future path can be chosen by more of the people who will be walking along it for much of their lives, rather than by those of us who are heading towards the exit. If we don't win this one, I'm hoping there's another one before I head for the exit myself, but I won't be holding my breath in that expectation. however the appetite will never go away among Scots, any more than it ever has since the Union Treaty was first signed.

[Fulmar]

Thanks, that's clear enough then.

[Goodfellers]

As you've moved South you no longer get a vote, therefore one less SNP supporter to persuade the Union is still the best option. Although, to be fair I doubt anyone has ever switched vote based on posts on this particular forum.

Odd, do you think it's right that Caithness is governed by the SNP despite the majority of voters repeatedly voteing Lib Dem? Or do we just have to accept that fact, because that's how democracy works?

Interested to know what you mean when you say there has always been an appetite for independance. Looking at historical voting records, I can't find anything to back up that claim. Do you have some facts, proof, to back up that claim? And I don't count the less than 1% who voted snp prior to the oil/gas boom as Scotland having an appetite, unless it's a real tiny appetite.

Hope you settle well in England, it's a great country and lovely people (much like the vast majority of Scots).

[Oddquine]

As you've moved South you no longer get a vote, therefore one less SNP supporter to persuade the Union is still the best option. Although, to be fair I doubt anyone has ever switched vote based on posts on this particular forum.

Odd, do you think it's right that Caithness is governed by the SNP despite the majority of voters repeatedly voteing Lib Dem? Or do we just have to accept that fact, because that's how democracy works?

Interested to know what you mean when you say there has always been an appetite for independance. Looking at historical voting records, I can't find anything to back up that claim. Do you have some facts, proof, to back up that claim? And I don't count the less than 1% who voted snp prior to the oil/gas boom as Scotland having an appetite, unless it's a real tiny appetite.

Hope you settle well in England, it's a great country and lovely people (much like the vast majority of Scots).

Has somebody moved South to England and doesn't get a vote? Who?

You are comparing apples and oranges again. There is, believe it or not, a difference between a county/region of a country and a country. If you had asked if I thought the electoral system for Westminster and Holyrood was democratic, I'd have to say that anything using FPTP as a basis can never be democratic. I haven't a clue if Caithness votes the LibDems in a majority of the popular vote for Holyrood or not, because there are no figures I can find for Caithness specifically, but as far as I can see the LibDems have never had a majority of the popular vote in the constituency which includes Caithness, even when they won the seat. Perhaps you can provide a breakdown of the Caithness voting for me to form a considered response.

I'll get back to you on the historical attempts to get Scotland, if not completely out of the Union, at least Home Rule. I could have sworn I had posted on here about that at some time, but so far haven't found it, but I do know the first attempt to get out of the Union was in the House of Lords in 1713, but the bill for dissolving the Union lost by just 4 votes.

How come you are back at the end posting to somebody who is settling in England. Weird kind of post which starts off referring to someone who isn't me...directly references me in the middle, and bows out referring to somebody who isn't me. I'm confused.

[Fulmar]

If you live in England, how did you manage to vote SNP in the last election or in ones to come? Do you retain a Scottish address and postal vote?

[Goodfellers]

My mistake Odd. you referenced yourself as a 'white settler' We all know that is a unplesant term for an Englishman,

fortunately

no long used. I then read country for county.

As for thinking you may be someone else. Look at it from my point of view. Corky has been a very prolific poster (backed up by Maggie). As already mentioned posting almost identical content to you. Both accounts go quiet at the beginning of December. Shabbychic then takes up the reigns, despite having been a dormant account since early 2017, again posting almost identical content as Corky and Maggie. Shabbychic even commented on this thread, now Shabby has gone quiet and yet another dormant account from early 2017 takes up the reigns. I would also point out both Corky and Maggie's accounts were created at about the time you and Shabbychic went dormant. Just a massive set of coincidences then?

[Shabbychic]

Sorry to disappoint, but I do not have the time to spend all day, every day on the org. In the words of Boy George, "I come and go...." Perhaps you will now accept I do not have Multiple Account Disorder (MAD).

I also now understand who ODD is. I have seen the name Oddquine over the years, and it just so happens our political views are much the same. It happens.

[Goodfellers]

Oh how I laughed when you posted!

[Shabbychic]

Why would that be?

[Oddquine]

My mistake Odd. you referenced yourself as a 'white settler' We all know that is a unplesant term for an Englishman,

fortunately

no long used. I then read country for county.

As for thinking you may be someone else. Look at it from my point of view. Corky has been a very prolific poster (backed up by Maggie). As already mentioned posting almost identical content to you. Both accounts go quiet at the beginning of December. Shabbychic then takes up the reigns, despite having been a dormant account since early 2017, again posting almost identical content as Corky and Maggie. Shabbychic even commented on this thread, now Shabby has gone quiet and yet another dormant account from early 2017 takes up the reigns. I would also point out both Corky and Maggie's accounts were created at about the time you and Shabbychic went dormant. Just a massive set of coincidences then?

You might know that it is an unpleasant term for an Englishman, but I don't. It is a historic term for Englishmen and Scotsmen etc who moved into the colonies and proceeded change the way of life, the language etc of the natives. As far as I'm concerned, a white settler is. like the colonialists who invaded far countries, simply an incomer to a district. Every white settler is different...it's an attitude thing, not a nationality thing. If you are an arrogant entitled pig to start with, moving to another area isn't going to change your mindset..and if you are the kind of person who simply wants to get along, then you'll try to fit in. I could give you a few examples of the first type and a lot more examples of the second...but like everything else in life, the few who make their presence felt are taken to epitomise the whole demography. That's why there is a growing tendency to view people on benefits as scroungers/chancers.....because that is how they are portrayed as the only ones we hear about are the ones who are chancers/scroungers.

I was a prolific poster on many forums prior to and just after the first indyref....I even had forums of my own...but since then, FaceBook has pretty much taken over my poiitical outpourings, and I now only read three forums, this one, a football one, where I mostly post in the political part, and an American political one, and I only post in them from time to time, when a thread title catches my eye and I think I have something to add or dispute. This forum, however is the only one in which members are assuming that anyone with a life outsde the org is all the same person posting under multiple identities....the others assume I am who I say I am and let me get on with it, despite the fact that there are many people posting on those other forums who have joined since I did and only post sporadically as well.

Shabbychic has been a member of the org since 2005 and obviously has more to do with her time than hang about here responding to posts...as do most of us... and I'm sure you will find that there are times in the past when we are both posting around the same time. FYI, I went dormant, as you put it, probably before 2014, as I wasn't living in Caithness after the end of 2013 and after that only frequented the genealogy and political forums....and in those forums from 2015,(which is as far back as the political forum archives go) I made about 51 posts.....so if I had intended coming up with a different persona...why would I wait until 2017 to do it, and why would I bother anyway? Also FYI, I have ignored so many rabid unionists since the last indyref, that there are some threads I can't post on because they are pretty much a lovefest by ignored unionists, responding to each other, with just the occasional interjection by anyone else. I suspect that my ignored list is going to expand a bit shortly, so I anticipate my posts on this forum aren't going to increase any time soon, and may well decrease even further given my propensity to ignore the kind of unionists who raise my blood pressure....but hey, maybe some of the surnames I'm researching will come up in the genealogy forum.

[orkneycadian]

Some more separatist hypocrisy;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-51112821

COP26: Climate summit may cost 'several hundred million pounds'

Keen for the kudos of Glasgow to be on the world stage, but would like Westminster to pay for it.

[Goodfellers]

As a UK tax payer, I don't mind paying in principle, provided Nicola Sturgeon makes it clear, this is a UK funded event, and doesn't try to take all the credit for hosting it.

If only some techie could come up with a system whereby people all around the world could communicate on big screens without leaving their office. Oh wait, they can already you say. World leaders give up on a jolly, not a chance. It's only the public that have to make changes to save the planet, not our leaders....or the rich apparently, they can still sign up for space tourism, but we are expected to stay local to save the planet! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50929064

[Oddquine]

As a UK tax payer, I don't mind paying in principle, provided Nicola Sturgeon makes it clear, this is a UK funded event, and doesn't try to take all the credit for hosting it.

If only some techie could come up with a system whereby people all around the world could communicate on big screens without leaving their office. Oh wait, they can already you say. World leaders give up on a jolly, not a chance. It's only the public that have to make changes to save the planet, not our leaders....or the rich apparently, they can still sign up for space tourism, but we are expected to stay local to save the planet! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50929064

It would be much the same situation as the London Olympics, then, wouldn't it... all parts of the UK paying and London taking the credit. Different story with the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, where Scotland footed the whole bill itself.

[Shabbychic]

Some more separatist hypocrisy;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-51112821

COP26: Climate summit may cost 'several hundred million pounds'

Keen for the kudos of Glasgow to be on the world stage, but would like Westminster to pay for it.

Hypocrisy you say? I think you'll find it is Boris Hypocrisy.

[orkneycadian]

No, that all looks quite reasonable. If Krankie wants it to be a SNP fest, then fair enough, the SNP can pay for it. Oh, hang on a minute. We're skint, and she can't even arrange to have the bins collected in Govan.

So if the UK can afford to host the event, but Scotland cannot, what does that tell us about Scexit?

[Goodfellers]

The whole of the UK benefited from the 2012 Olympics, including Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-18685352

What economic benefit will be seen in London (or the rest of the UK) from this cop26 conference? What will be the long term economic benefit to Scotland of this conference?

Both the 2012 Olympics and the Glasgow Commonwealth games brought actual benefits to the UK.

We all know Nicola will try to take as much credit politically from this event as possible, there will be no mention of Westminster funding, it will all be down to her personally. We all know how it works, anything bad, blame Westminster, anything good, credit to the wonderful job the SNP do.

[Shabbychic]

No, that all looks quite reasonable. If Krankie wants it to be a SNP fest, then fair enough, the SNP can pay for it. Oh, hang on a minute. We're skint, and she can't even arrange to have the bins collected in Govan.

So if the UK can afford to host the event, but Scotland cannot, what does that tell us about Scexit?

And.....there we have it. The sheer lack of understanding the Unionists have in what Independence is all about, Why are we skint? Why can Scotland not afford things? Why? Because Westminster takes control of our finances, and we have to wait and see what the pittance will be that we get back! As is happening right at this moment. Why do you think they won't let us go? The simplified version is, they need our money and resources. And, don't quote GERS. That was never meant to be realistic.

Take Holyrood right now, it consists of 5 Parties. Out of that, only 2 are Scottish Parties. The rest take their orders from Westminster. Does that seem right? It is supposed to be a Scottish Government. Let's not forget the fact that many things are not even devolved, and we are at the mercy of Westminster on too many issues. (although the Scottish Government get the blame of their failings anyway)

Then we have the local councils. In many instances the SNP have the most seats, but along come the Independents, the Tories and Labour and all band together to take over, but who in the end gets the blame for everything that goes wrong? Three guesses.

Independence is not about waving flags, wearing kilts, skipping gaily through the heather shouting freedom and hating everybody else, as some Brit Nats seem to think. It's all about being in charge of our own Country and monies, and using it for Scotland and the Scottish people. It's not about the SNP, it's about standing on our own feet and facing the world on equal terms.

Nobody claims it will be easy to start with, but at least we will be doing it for ourselves, and we won't have to put up with all the disdain, and downright lies, thrown our way, from Westminster and the MSM at every turn. We might even be able to afford things without having to go cap in hand for every penny, that was ours to begin with. We are actually a rich wee Country.

[Goodfellers]

"It's not about the SNP"...If only that were true. If all the political parties supported it, maybe a few more voters would get behind independance.

Scotland is a rich wee country...Really? where are you getting your figures from? I would like to see some actual evidence for that statement. This is what Bloombergs have to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ancial-hurdles

Full fact article https://fullfact.org/electionlive/20...-fact-checked/

Another Full fact check https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-and-spending-scotland/

Another article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ence-dont-add/



The SNP know they can't win on the financial case for independance, so they will go for the 'bad Westminster' case, make Boris out to be a monster and quietly brush aside the fact the country is likely to be financially worse off.....Exactly their argument for stopping Brexit, but clearly doesn't apply to an independant Scotland...as the thread says hypocrisy.

I'll sit here and wait for a proper financial argument backed up with facts, not emotions.

[Goodfellers]

Shabbychic/Oddquine.

Very recently you've 'both' used the term MSM....no one else has ever used that term, could 'either' of you tell me what it is an acronym for?

[Shabbychic]

"It's not about the SNP"...If only that were true. If all the political parties supported it, maybe a few more voters would get behind independance.

Scotland is a rich wee country...Really? where are you getting your figures from? I would like to see some actual evidence for that statement. This is what Bloombergs have to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ancial-hurdles

Full fact article https://fullfact.org/electionlive/20...-fact-checked/

Another Full fact check https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-and-spending-scotland/

Another article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ence-dont-add/



The SNP know they can't win on the financial case for independance, so they will go for the 'bad Westminster' case, make Boris out to be a monster and quietly brush aside the fact the country is likely to be financially worse off.....Exactly their argument for stopping Brexit, but clearly doesn't apply to an independant Scotland...as the thread says hypocrisy.

I'll sit here and wait for a proper financial argument backed up with facts, not emotions.

You can sit there till the coos come home, for all I care, I don't have to justify or back up anything to you. You already know everything anyway, and as you have mentioned, posting on here won't change anyone's mind, especially yours, but that wasn't my intention.


I certainly won't be taking many facts from Tory run websites, but just a few wee pointers. They are using figures that deal with Scotland being part of the UK. They also don't take into account the "non-identifiable spending" like Big Ben, the London Sewer System, Trident and things like that, which we are paying into. It all adds up when someone else is spending your money for you, whether you like it or not. (hence our part of the UK Debt) There are also other things that would be different in an Independent Scotland. (like the extra money needed at present for mitigation of things like the Bedroom Tax)


Regarding it not being about the SNP.....it's not. Don't you get it? The other Parties at Holyrood are run from Westminster, and therefore not allowed to support Independence. Scottish Labour have hinted at changing their views a few times, but are always, swiftly brought to heel from their Westminster bosses.

The Snp, helped by the Scottish Greens, is the only Party big enough to get us through Independence. Once we get that, the SNP may even disappear as we will have other Scottish Parties to run Scotland, or at least be more committed to Scotland, be they Labour, Tory, Lib Dems, Greens, even a Scottish Raving Loony Party if need be.


Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, Boris is a Monster.


MSM means Mainstream Media, and is widely used online.


I'm off now to have more "Emotional Moments". I'm like that.