SNP tantrums

[orkneycadian]

To any readers from south of the border, over the Welsh one or over the water in Northern Ireland.

We up here in Scotland are really embarrassed by the childish behaviour of some of our MP's in Westminster today. As a Scot, albeit a fairly Vikingish one, all I can say is sorry on behalf of some of my fellow country people for their completely gormless behaviour. Only 36.9% of the votes cast, and 24.4% of eligible electorate wanted this useless bunch in the 2017 general election, so its far from representational of us up here. Please don't think we are all as childish as this gang.

I thought that when "Fat Angus" lost his seat, that we could portray a better image in the House of Commons. Alas, we now have "Fat Ian" who as well as trying to follow in Angus's footsteps in terms of shirt collar size, is also trying to keep up the image that all us Scots have no manners or ability to follow protocols.

Please don't think we are all like that. Its quite nice up hear. Really

[Mr P Cannop]

you will see when scotland gets nothing due to what westminster is doing !!!!

[orkneycadian]

Scotland has already shown its not able to run the country better than Westminster. Of all the powers that Holyrood have been given, they have largely failed to make use of them to make a difference. As an experiment, devolution was interesting, but not worth it. Look at Northern Ireland, unable to even form a devolved government for 18 months.

For Scotland, just another tier of bureaucracy. If we can get rid of that tier, and the one above Westminster in Brussels, we'll do an awful lot better.

[dozy]

The Westminster Jack boot brigade are alive and well . What's next saltire flag burning and a cattle cart train ride for a shower and a new beginning .

[sids]

The Westminster Jack boot brigade are alive and well . What's next saltire flag burning and a cattle cart train ride for a shower and a new beginning .

I’m declaring Godwin’s!

[Goodfellers]

Radio 4 are running a programme about what would happen to the UK if civil war broke out. ……… Let's all be friends.....it's safer and easier. Doesn't the SNP support a re-uniting of Ireland, yet want to split the UK up? Or is that just pub gossip?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/arti...dio4_sm_mid_c3

[Maggie747]

To any readers from south of the border, over the Welsh one or over the water in Northern Ireland.

We up here in Scotland were really proud of some of our MP's in Westminster yesterday. As a Scot, all I can say is thank goodness someone is sticking up for us. Although only 36.9% of the votes cast, and 24.4% of the eligible electorate wanted this fantastic set of MP's in the 2017 general election, we hope that they increase their share of the votes next time, when everyone realised what a great job they are doing.

They could not portray a better image in the House of Commons. We also recognise that they keep up the image that all us Scots have perfect manners and the ability to follow protocols, even when confronted with extreme prejudice.

Its really nice up here in Caithness, it's really nice all over Scotland and the Scottish Government want to keep it that way.

[orkneycadian]

Although only 36.9% of the votes cast, and 24.4% of the eligible electorate wanted this fantastic set of MP's in the 2017 general election, we hope that they increase their share of the votes next time, when everyone realised what a great job they are doing.

Given that between the general elections in 2015 and 2017, the share of the votes cast for the SNP fell from 50% to 36.9%, and the percentage of the eligible electorate who voted for them fell from 35.8% to 24.4%, this seems quite a bold aspiration.

Having your votes fall by roughly 25% and 33% respectively, is not something you would normally associate with "doing a great job". In fact, it could be seen as quite the opposite.

I guess this is one of the reasons for the latest push for the unwanted next chapter in the Neverendum. Hopes must be high that the surge in the general election of 2015 can be repeated again, a year after the previous Neverendum. I guess this is important to them, as at the present rate of decline, the SNP will become very much an also ran in the next elections.

[Maggie747]

Given that between the general elections in 2015 and 2017, the share of the votes cast for the SNP fell from 50% to 36.9%, and the percentage of the eligible electorate who voted for them fell from 35.8% to 24.4%, this seems quite a bold aspiration. An aspiration worth having, non-the-less and certainly not unachievable.

Having your votes fall by roughly 25% and 33% respectively, is not something you would normally associate with "doing a great job". In fact, it could be seen as quite the opposite. Of course if the press and opposition politicians who rubbish your achievements; put you down at every turn and generally attempt to discredit; you were more honest and trustworthy then we might see a fairer reflection of the true worth of our Scottish Government.

I guess this is one of the reasons for the latest, much needed, push for the desperately wanted Referendum. Hopes are very high that after the general election results of 2015 and this never ending Brexit travesty that the Scottish Government, led by the SNP, will make the people of Scotland the winners.

[Goodfellers]

Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? No one I know that's for sure. Maybe by the less well off in the central belt who have been promised Nirvana by the SNP or the people on benefits who have been promised more than the country can afford. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, the hard working middle classes who will eventually leave Scotland (or never come here in the first place).

The SNP claim they want mass immigration (apart from the English, obviously) but who will want to come to a country of higher taxation compared to the rest of the UK?

Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK in terms of output, why? Can't blame that on Westminster as the three other countries of the UK are doing far better?

[orkneycadian]

Given that between the general elections in 2015 and 2017, the share of the votes cast for the SNP fell from 50% to 36.9%, and the percentage of the eligible electorate who voted for them fell from 35.8% to 24.4%, this seems quite a bold aspiration. An aspiration worth having, non-the-less and certainly not unachievable.

Having your votes fall by roughly 25% and 33% respectively, is not something you would normally associate with "doing a great job". In fact, it could be seen as quite the opposite. Of course if the press and opposition politicians who rubbish your achievements; put you down at every turn and generally attempt to discredit; you were more honest and trustworthy then we might see a fairer reflection of the true worth of our Scottish Government.

I guess this is one of the reasons for the latest, much needed, push for the desperately wanted Referendum. Hopes are very high that after the general election results of 2015 and this never ending Brexit travesty that the Scottish Government, led by the SNP, will make the people of Scotland the winners.

I really must get this phone line fixed. It has a terrible echo.....

[orkneycadian]

Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? No one I know that's for sure. Maybe by the less well off in the central belt who have been promised Nirvana by the SNP or the people on benefits who have been promised more than the country can afford. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, the hard working middle classes who will eventually leave Scotland (or never come here in the first place).

A March 2018 poll by Ipsos Mori found that 42% of Scots supported holding a second referendum within the next three years, compared to 47% who opposed one; 8% said that they neither supported or opposed a referendum being held within this timescale. Support for a referendum was highest among sixteen to thirty-four year-olds, the unemployed, charity workers, council house dwellers and people living in the 20% of most deprived areas in Scotland. Opposition was greatest from people aged over fifty-five, retirees, homeowners and people with no formal qualifications.^[104]

Source = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propos...pinion_polling

I guess then that since only 42% want a referendum, they must be feeling pretty desperate, as thats even less than the percentage of folk that voted Yes last time

And I see from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence that the lead for No richochets anywhere between 4% and 14% since the general election last year. Now, I am no statistician, and there are probably more precise ways to do it, but the average (add up the numbers and divide by the number of numbers) lead for no, using that source, over that period is 9.45%. Just over 1% less than the 10.6% lead that No had in the last official Neverendum. As I think they use a 3% margin of error in those polls, then as far as I can see, things have not changed since the 2014 Neverendum.

[Maggie747]

Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? Every one I know that's for sure. Including the less well off in the central belt who have been promised fairness by the Scottish Government or the people on benefits who have been promised a fair deal. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, all of the people of Scotland. Sounds fair.

The Scottish government claim they want a reasonable amount of immigration (including the English, obviously). Many of whom have already come to a country which offers better standards in Health Care, Social Care and with a more caring attitude. And they are welcome here. Higher taxation compared to the rest of the UK is needed to pay for it, well why not?

Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK in terms of output, why? Blame that on Westminster as they refuse to invest in anywhere other than the South East, and I don't mean the Lothians and the Borders.

[Maggie747]

A March 2018 poll by Ipsos Mori found that 42% of Scots supported holding a second referendum within the next three years, compared to 47% who opposed one; 8% said that they neither supported or opposed a referendum being held within this timescale. I guess then that since only 42% want a referendum, they must be feeling pretty desperate, as thats even less than the percentage of folk that voted Yes last time


No, I think what you quote says that 42% are for a referendum if it was held in the next 3 years. Not that only 42% want a referendum on Independence.

And I see from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...h_independence that the lead for No richochets anywhere between 4% and 14% since the general election last year. Now, I am no statistician, and there are probably more precise ways to do it, but the average (add up the numbers and divide by the number of numbers) lead for no, using that source, over that period is 9.45%. Just over 1% less than the 10.6% lead that No had in the last official Referendum. As I think they use a 3% margin of error in those polls, then as far as I can see, things have not changed since the 2014 Referendum.

I won't argue the margin of statistical error, I agree that probably nothing has changed since the last 2014 Referendum as far as that opinion poll goes.

Support for a referendum was highest among sixteen to thirty-four year-olds, the unemployed, charity workers, council house dwellers and people living in the 20% of most deprived areas in Scotland. Opposition was greatest from people aged over fifty-five, retirees, homeowners and people with no formal qualifications.<sup>[104]

If we consider the statement above it would typify me as aged 16-34, perhaps unemployed, living in social housing and in the central belt.
It would typify you as being aged over 55, perhaps retired, own your own home and have no formal qualifications.

I'm very happy to say that I do not conform to either of these stereotypical, polarised categories produced by that opinion poll.</sup>

[mi16]

We are already taxed heavier than the rest of the UK and for what?
Potholes roads, broken policing etc

[Goodfellers]

Who is the referendum 'desperately' wanted by? Every one I know that's for sure. Including the less well off in the central belt who have been promised fairness by the Scottish Government or the people on benefits who have been promised a fair deal. Tell me, who is going to pay for all these promises, I'll tell you, all of the people of Scotland. Sounds fair.

The Scottish government claim they want a reasonable amount of immigration (including the English, obviously). Many of whom have already come to a country which offers better standards in Health Care, Social Care and with a more caring attitude. And they are welcome here. Higher taxation compared to the rest of the UK is needed to pay for it, well why not?

Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK in terms of output, why? Blame that on Westminster as they refuse to invest in anywhere other than the South East, and I don't mean the Lothians and the Borders.

I think you have summed up all the fears of the working population of Scotland. I know the SNP want us all to be 'equal', by that they mean 'take from the better off to give to the less well off'.....how about trying to make the poorer better off by improving basic education and skill levels?

If the SNP want us all to be 'equal', how about making the unemployed get up at 5am (like a lot of us) and forcing them to carry out community work projects for a minimum of 8 solid hours a day? in exchange for any of my hard earned tax money.

I was waiting for the usual SNP mantra 'blame Westminster', it's not our fault we have made a complete ……..(insert whatever words you want)...of the economy, education, the roads, the health service, and anything else they touch, it's always someone else's fault.

More of the population might support independence if it wasn't administered by the SNP, the other three parties (excluding the Greens) should get together to form a completely new party so at the next election there was a choice between the SNP and new Party X, that would be the end of the SNP and the Neverendum. Just my opinion, as a hard working long suffering tax payer!

[Alrock]

If the SNP want us all to be 'equal', how about making the unemployed get up at 5am (like a lot of us) and forcing them to carry out community work projects for a minimum of 8 solid hours a day?

That's called a job, which is what most unemployed people want, as long as it pays a realistic wage for the job done. Would you be happy working for 40 hours per week for £57.90?

[Goodfellers]

That's called a job, which is what most unemployed people want, as long as it pays a realistic wage for the job done. Would you be happy working for 40 hours per week for £57.90?

How about being made to up-skill then to increase chance of finding work. we all know people who are quite ok with living on benefits (my brother included). I don't believe anyone should get cash for doing nothing. Self worth alone should make you want to improve your life so you should have the choice of community 'work' or return to education/training. Within a few years you could be a trained plumber/electrician/brickie. This would be a great asset to the area and help to reduce prices of these trades, maybe then encouraging more people to move to the area. I know someone from 'down south' who bought a piece of land up here with outline pp only to find it was too expensive to get a home built, far cheaper to by a house already built.

[Alrock]

....we all know people who are quite ok with living on benefits (my brother included).

Go back a few hundred years or so and do a survey of black slaves picking cotton & I'm sure quite a few would say that they are happy (they become "institutionalised" to their position). Didn't make it right though.

[Fulmar]

I doubt any slaves said that they were 'happy'. Why would they given the terrible situation that they were in, the aftermath of which continues to this day in the form of racism.
The whole business of benefits and who gets what and what constitutes work is a pretty complex one and I think needs to be tackled on a lot of different fronts. It would be great if instead of it always being an exercise of forcing people into categories in order to tick boxes, each could be looked at on an individual basis and something (voluntary/community, if needs be) found to suit that person, within reason at least.
Back on topic, I don't know of anyone clamouring for a second referendum either.