Tax credits cuts only affect Scotland if the SNP want them to.

[weeker2014]

please keep going bt and rob

No don't keep going BT. You have even had anpersonal mention in the general forum under 'where have all the troublemakers gone'.

Rob is cool, at least he has reasoned debate rather than just spouting anti-nationalist bile and being a complete troll.

I would love to know who is bank rolling you BT that you consistently avoid the moderators gaze, but nothing surprises me here anymore. Anyone else would have been banned over 1000 posts ago and banned for a lot less than you get up to.

[Oddquine]

I am sure they can and will do something to mitigate the effects, but what that will be will not be clear until we actually know the level of the cuts, if that is reconsidered, and how that will be done has not yet been decided....RAISE TAXATION ?? Suffice it to say that if there is an SNP Government when the tax credit cuts bite, they will do what they can afford to mitigate the effects...........Financial Times : The Scottish National party has committed to trying to make up losses that would be suffered by low-income people under tax credit cuts planned by the UK Conservative government.

But, Rob, I'd have thought that, as a Unionist, you'd be delighted if the next SG had to raise taxation to mitigate the effects of the tax credits (if it is the SNP)........after all, that was the whole point of the Scotland Act 2012......to try to force the SNP to use the power, thus make all the Scottish taxpayers feel they are being penalised.and set them against the SNP. Why else would they have set up the Scotland Act 2012 with no power to raise the personal allowance and no power to raise tax rates separately? They know that a tax raise will make every single taxpayer worse off, with no power to raise the allowance to stop the basic rate tax payers having to pay it and nothing else of much use to find that money in the taxes which have been devolved in the same Act.

No devolution settlement to date, and I can see little difference in the one currently going through Westminster, has been set up to benefit Scotland, but has been set up in a way which ensures that, whatever we do, with whatever powers we get, we are not allowed to keep the proceeds for ourselves.....hence the claw backs via the adjustment of the Block Grant. This will serve only the purpose that whatever Scottish Government is in power, (although it has all been aimed at the SNP), of making any Scottish Government unpopular, because punters don't like paying more than they already do, but then, again they don't like cuts and losing what they already have.

[rob murray]

But, Rob, I'd have thought that, as a Unionist, you'd be delighted if the next SG had to raise taxation to mitigate the effects of the tax credits (if it is the SNP)........after all, that was the whole point of the Scotland Act 2012......to try to force the SNP to use the power, thus make all the Scottish taxpayers feel they are being penalised.and set them against the SNP. Why else would they have set up the Scotland Act 2012 with no power to raise the personal allowance and no power to raise tax rates separately? They know that a tax raise will make every single taxpayer worse off, with no power to raise the allowance to stop the basic rate tax payers having to pay it and nothing else of much use to find that money in the taxes which have been devolved in the same Act.

No devolution settlement to date, and I can see little difference in the one currently going through Westminster, has not been set up to benefit Scotland, but has been set up in a way which ensures that, whatever we do, with whatever powers we get, we are not allowed to keep the proceeds for ourselves.....hence the claw backs via the adjustment of the Block Grant. This will serve only the purpose that whatever Scottish Government is in power, (although it has all been aimed at the SNP), of making any Scottish Government unpopular, because punters don't like paying more than they already do, but then, again they don't like cuts and losing what they already have.

Im not posting OQ, so dont make any reference to me please, and dont presume "my delight" at tax raises, also drop the unionist crap..Im a scot first and foremost and then a UK citizen as correct me if Im wrong but Scotland is still part of the UK. I simply quoted directly from the news and like it or not plugging TC cuts /gaps can in future be financed though taxation or further economic growth I repeat my quote from the Financial Times : The Scottish National party has committed to trying to make up losses that would be suffered by low-income people under tax credit cuts planned by the UK Conservative government. I note the use of try /ing and accept that they may not be able to under circumstances you quote, but there is no way they could do this as an independent country, either unless of course you can come up with figures other than using tax increases that the short fall will be plugged.

[Oddquine]

I may just do that let them stew in their own policiital ideology then wail and moan when it all goes pear shaped.

Nice to see the Huntly by election being won by the conservatives right down in Mr Salmonds back yard the turn has begun.

It was "won" by the Conservative in 2012 as well, if you can call it "won" in a multi-member constituency, elected by STV. As the SNP kept their seat, the Conservatives actually "won" it from the LibDems......didn't they ?

[Oddquine]

Im not posting OQ, so dont make any reference to me please, and dont presume "my delight" at tax raises, also drop the unionist crap..Im a scot first and foremost and then a UK citizen as correct me if Im wrong but Scotland is still part of the UK. I simply quoted directly from the news and like it or not plugging TC cuts /gaps can in future be financed though taxation or further economic growth I repeat my quote from the Financial Times : The Scottish National party has committed to trying to make up losses that would be suffered by low-income people under tax credit cuts planned by the UK Conservative government. I note the use of try /ing and accept that they may not be able to under circumstances you quote, but there is no way they could do this as an independent country, either unless of course you can come up with figures other than using tax increases that the short fall will be plugged.

Why would they need to do this as an independent country when they would undoubtedly have a complete new welfare system which is easier (and Cheaper) to administer. If you had the chance to start all over again with a welfare system, would you set up something on the lines of the extremely convoluted and almost impenetrable UK one, or something simpler and easier to understand....and chepaer to administer and run?

The reason I responded at all was your shouting RAISE TAXATION, as if that was unacceptable to you. If you hadn't shouted, I'd probably not have responded.

[rob murray]

Why would they need to do this as an independent country when they would undoubtedly have a complete new welfare system which is easier (and Cheaper) to administer. If you had the chance to start all over again with a welfare system, would you set up something on the lines of the extremely convoluted and almost impenetrable UK one, or something simpler and easier to understand....and chepaer to administer and run?

The reason I responded at all was your shouting RAISE TAXATION, as if that was unacceptable to you. If you hadn't shouted, I'd probably not have responded.

AS I said dont bother me Im outta here, as I said there is sod all any one can do to change a yesser to a maybe or a noer so crack on wi it and as I said your party will either make a hash or a success of things but your welcome to it all.

[dc1]

I will be sorry to see you go Rob as you and bt are the only ones that speak the way I see it

[rob murray]

I will be sorry to see you go Rob as you and bt are the only ones that speak the way I see it

Thank you, Im on twitter now

[weeker2014]

AS I said dont bother me Im outta here, as I said there is sod all any one can do to change a yesser to a maybe or a noer so crack on wi it and as I said your party will either make a hash or a success of things but your welcome to it all.

Throwing toys out of pram is not very adult. Maybe I was wrong in that you have reasoned debates. It is not your role to turn a yes voter into a no or a maybe. There are plenty SNP members that would vote no. You are all shouting about the SNP but they may well be the ones with the most appealing manifesto to you once they are all released. Who said another referendum will be in it?

Your confusing YES and NO. That fight is gone, done and dusted. You guys are the ones fighting the referendum over and over again.

If your aim is to change peoples minds to No or Maybe you probably are better off out of here as we want reasoned debate that is not split into Yes and No.

[cptdodger]

[QUOTE=weeker2014;1134863]Who said another referendum will be in it?

Your confusing YES and NO. That fight is gone, done and dusted. You guys are the ones fighting the referendum over and over again.[QUOTE]

Because of course it's not like the SNP ever mention a second Referendum -

"Legislation to give more powers to the Scottish Parliament will complete its final House of Commons stages later.

MPs will vote on the Scotland Bill which aims to deliver more devolution as agreed by the Smith Commission.


SNP MPs have tabled an amendment calling for MSPs to have full control over timing and organisation of any future independence referendum"

[rob murray]

Throwing toys out of pram is not very adult. Maybe I was wrong in that you have reasoned debates. It is not your role to turn a yes voter into a no or a maybe. There are plenty SNP members that would vote no. You are all shouting about the SNP but they may well be the ones with the most appealing manifesto to you once they are all released. Who said another referendum will be in it?

Your confusing YES and NO. That fight is gone, done and dusted. You guys are the ones fighting the referendum over and over again.

If your aim is to change peoples minds to No or Maybe you probably are better off out of here as we want reasoned debate that is not split into Yes and No.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-34759988

[weeker2014]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-34759988

The key to that is "in the future", not today and every day since the last one as is being fought on this forum by the unionists. It is absolutely right Scotland should have the right to set a date in the future if that is what the majority of Scots people want and it shouldnt be dictated by England.

However it also mentions for MSPs to decide, who says it will be a majority SNP group that makes that call? Who knows what other parties look like in another 10 years when they realise it is the only way to wrestle power from the SNP. 20 years ago very few would have seen a majority SNP Scottish government coming, it is amazing how quickly things change.

[Fulmar]

I think that for me, the difficulty will be in accepting the truth of it (I mean the holding of another referendum) being what the majority of people in Scotland want. How is this actually going to be discovered? Focus Groups? Opinion polls? A referendum on whether to hold another referendum? It will not be enough, in my view, for it to rest upon a majority SNP government being elected next time around. I agree with some of the things that all the political parties propose (well, very rarely with the Tories) and I don't necessarily think that everything is bad. A voter might agree with the majority of the policies for Scotland proposed by the SNP because he or she thinks that is best for our country but still wish, for example, to remain in the UK and retain Trident. I am not saying that is likely but it is possible.
I do not fear democracy and the democratic wishes of the people being expressed in any shape or form as long as it is truly democratic. Whether it is liked or not, the rest of the UK do have a right to a say in what happens in the light of a clear majority vote to stay in the Union. But I agree, it has rightly gone off the top of the political agenda for now and there is that other referendum pending to occupy us along with many other serious issues such as the refugee crisis. I applaud the attitude of the SNP government towards taking in refugees compared to that of the Tory government of the UK. I am glad that some 200 families will possibly come to the Highlands. But equally, I am glad that at least the UK government has signed up to take 20,000 as at least those people will be helped. So I look at what is proposed in any area and by whatever party and see if I agree with it or not. That's how things are for me and I suspect that there are others like me.

[weeker2014]

I think that for me, the difficulty will be in accepting the truth of it (I mean the holding of another referendum) being what the majority of people in Scotland want. How is this actually going to be discovered? Focus Groups? Opinion polls? A referendum on whether to hold another referendum? It will not be enough, in my view, for it to rest upon a majority SNP government being elected next time around. I agree with some of the things that all the political parties propose (well, very rarely with the Tories) and I don't necessarily think that everything is bad. A voter might agree with the majority of the policies for Scotland proposed by the SNP because he or she thinks that is best for our country but still wish, for example, to remain in the UK and retain Trident. I am not saying that is likely but it is possible.
I do not fear democracy and the democratic wishes of the people being expressed in any shape or form as long as it is truly democratic. Whether it is liked or not, the rest of the UK do have a right to a say in what happens in the light of a clear majority vote to stay in the Union. But I agree, it has rightly gone off the top of the political agenda for now and there is that other referendum pending to occupy us along with many other serious issues such as the refugee crisis. I applaud the attitude of the SNP government towards taking in refugees compared to that of the Tory government of the UK. I am glad that some 200 families will possibly come to the Highlands. But equally, I am glad that at least the UK government has signed up to take 20,000 as at least those people will be helped. So I look at what is proposed in any area and by whatever party and see if I agree with it or not. That's how things are for me and I suspect that there are others like me.

Here Here Fulmar. Finally some decent thoughts and honest debate on a subject. It is nice to see a sensible and balanced approach. I wish some others could learn from your stance.