Margaret Thatcher

[ducati]

Anyone thinking of getting involved with pre-arranged riots next week, the law enforcement agencies are scowering social media looking for ringleaders to round up in pre-emptive strikes.

Further, long prison sentences will be the order of the day and who knows?, if the police completely lose control, they may er....react badly

[equusdriving]

Now it's like buying airline tickets, there are hidden fares, differently priced fares for the same journey, and fares are extortionately high.

and this kind of thing cant help!

http://money.aol.co.uk/2013/04/09/bo...6pLid%3D170383

[M Swanson]

LOL. I was a fan of Spitting Image. Check this classic one out folks. It's hilarious.


Spitting Image - Tony Blair Interview - YouTube

[squidge]

Where Thatcher failed in many of her policies was that she never thought further than the end of her ( if you look at the spitting Image video) very long nose.

She and her parliament, failed to think ahead, to give any thought to the human cost of many of their policies. The Tory government then - as now - didnt give a toss about the effect their policies would have in the long term. This was because they governed with ideological objectives and not for the benefit of society as a whole. The right to buy was a clear example of that. A lot of people cite Margarets Thatcher's right to buy policy as one of the greatest social changes ever and indeed it was. A whole sector of people for whom home ownership was a dream to which they could only aspire and never realise found themselves able to take the step they had dreamed of and buy their home. Magnificent. A northern lass from a milltown in Lancashire I know fine well how important this policy was to friends, family and neighbours of ours. My nana and grandpa would have loved to have bought their council house. I supported that policy and still do but it was flawed.

Margaret Thatcher showed absolutely no interest in building new affordable homes for rent and so we have been playing catch up ever since. The policy was designed to reduce the burden on the state - the fact that it helped people own their own homes was a side effect not the objective. If the objective was around people and social mobility then built into this policy would have been the need to build more housing to afford more people this opportunity in the future. But it wasnt. So we have people who have no home, and in many areas no right to buy because there is insufficient social housing either to rent or to buy at affordable prices.

Industrial relations was another clear example. Fight the unions - reduce their power and privatise state owned industries - She absolutely did that. But she gave no thought to rebuilding damaged communities,no thought to how we replace lost jobs from heavy and traditional industries with other jobs. No thought to the price society had to pay. She destroyed, she did not seek to improve. What was it that Norman Lamont said under her leadership "Unemployment is a price worth paying". A price worth paying for a group of people to achieve their ideological objectives. She is widely quoted as saying that "There is no such thing as society"this was in an Interview in woman's Own I think. She said there are only people. She completely failed to grasp that for people to be successful, have equality of opportunity and the chance to achieve their true potential then they had to live together in a real society where the richest and poorest are seen as equal and where policies try to help achieve that equality and minimise disadvantage. Society isnt some abstract thing - it is the way we live together and look after each other.

M Swanson is a great fan of Margaret Thatcher and in a recent post on another thread she said

These are the recipients of welfare benefits, by definition and are quite different to the likes of us, imo.

The likes of us!!!!!! I rather think this was the way Margaret Thatcher thought too. That somehow if she had the wherewithall to rise out of her ever so humble background then so could everybody else. she had no understanding of the difficulties faced by people in their everyday lives and this is clearly still seen in the comments on the threads about living on £53 per week. Mrs Thatcher did not empathise. If Mrs Thatcher cared about the effects on PEOPLE and therefore on SOCIETY then she would have had to do things differently but no - ideology was all in the Tory Governments of the 80s as it is today. She talked about the miners as "the enemy within" but they were just people fighting for a way to earn a living and she destroyed that with her ideological agenda. People DIED during and as a result of the Miners strike, poor, hungry, cold and demonised. Do you know people are dying today as a result of welfare reforms? Poor hungry cold and demonised. We have another tory government and another "Enemy Within" in those who are on welfare benefits. We have an ideological drive to reduce the welfare state. there is little or no thought given to the impact of the policies on the health and wellbeing of the poorest, most vulnerable people these policies affect.

Margaret Thatcher changed the labour party too. They were completely unelectable in the early 80s - Michael Foot although intelligent was no match for the Iron Lady, the problems of the Winter of Discontent too recent and they had no ideas other than backwards. Neil Kinnock was better, a step forward but with a foot in traditional socialist values but it was not enough. Labour could only win by choosing a version of the path trodden by Margaret Thatcher - the path that led to votes from a Thatcher influenced "No such thing as society" Me ME MEEEEEEEE generation who believed that society was nothing, that cohesion, state ownership and trade unions were an embarrassing part of their history rather than something which can be harnessed and changed to benefit everyone. We have a labour party who cannot find their Labour roots and so sway as much as a rootless bush in the winds of change.

By all means admire Margaret Thatcher, she was indeed a formidable woman but she wasnt the saviour of Britain. There is a thought that her death and the pantomime which will be her funeral will influence a rise in support of an Independent Scotland. I dont know but We shall see.

[RecQuery]

I'd like to mention her state ceremonial funeral for a moment. Ignoring its high cost, she in no way compares to Churchill or the situation he had to deal with/unique state of the government at that time.

There's also the fact that they're ignoring her wishes so they can put on a spectacle - surprised her family aren't complaining, but then some people do love their pomp, bread and circuses and all that. Easy thing to use as a distraction from other more pressing issues I suppose is the thinking.

[sids]

the police completely lose control, they may er....react badly

"Bludgeoning" is a great word.

Will they bludgeon some "hags" (another great word)?

[equusdriving]

Where Thatcher failed in many of her policies was that she never thought further than the end of her ( if you look at the spitting Image video) very long nose.

She and her parliament, failed to think ahead,

ahh a bit like the vote for Independence now, and wait and see how it really affects the country in 2016 philosophy.

People DIED during the Miners strike, poor, hungry, cold and demonised

.
mmm a bit of a sweeping statement considering , Six picketers died during the strike, and three teenagers (Darren Holmes aged 15 and Paul Holmes and Paul Womersley aged 14) died picking coal from a colliery waste heap in the winter. The deaths of pickets David Jones and Joe Green continue to be viewed with suspicion. Jones was killed in , Nottinghamshire, by a flying brick during fighting between police, pickets, and non-striking miners,while Green was hit by a truck while picketing in Yorkshire. A taxi driver, was killed on 30 November 1984. He had been taking a non-striking miner to work in the Merthyr Vale Colliery, South Wales when two striking miners dropped a concrete post onto his car from a road bridge above. He died at the scene. two miners served a prison sentence for manslaughter.

By all means admire Margaret Thatcher, she was indeed a formidable woman but she wasnt the saviour of Britain. There is a thought that her death and the pantomime which will be her funeral will influence a rise in support of an Independent Scotland. I dont know but We shall see.

well you can only hope , although it seems a bit like you are clutching at straws

[shazzap]

Where Thatcher failed in many of her policies was that she never thought further than the end of her ( if you look at the spitting Image video) very long nose.

She and her parliament, failed to think ahead, to give any thought to the human cost of many of their policies. The Tory government then - as now - didnt give a toss about the effect their policies would have in the long term. This was because they governed with ideological objectives and not for the benefit of society as a whole. The right to buy was a clear example of that. A lot of people cite Margarets Thatcher's right to buy policy as one of the greatest social changes ever and indeed it was. A whole sector of people for whom home ownership was a dream to which they could only aspire and never realise found themselves able to take the step they had dreamed of and buy their home. Magnificent. A northern lass from a milltown in Lancashire I know fine well how important this policy was to friends, family and neighbours of ours. My nana and grandpa would have loved to have bought their council house. I supported that policy and still do but it was flawed.

Margaret Thatcher showed absolutely no interest in building new affordable homes for rent and so we have been playing catch up ever since. The policy was designed to reduce the burden on the state - the fact that it helped people own their own homes was a side effect not the objective. If the objective was around people and social mobility then built into this policy would have been the need to build more housing to afford more people this opportunity in the future. But it wasnt. So we have people who have no home, and in many areas no right to buy because there is insufficient social housing either to rent or to buy at affordable prices.

Industrial relations was another clear example. Fight the unions - reduce their power and privatise state owned industries - She absolutely did that. But she gave no thought to rebuilding damaged communities,no thought to how we replace lost jobs from heavy and traditional industries with other jobs. No thought to the price society had to pay. She destroyed, she did not seek to improve. What was it that Norman Lamont said under her leadership "Unemployment is a price worth paying". A price worth paying for a group of people to achieve their ideological objectives. She is widely quoted as saying that "There is no such thing as society"this was in an Interview in woman's Own I think. She said there are only people. She completely failed to grasp that for people to be successful, have equality of opportunity and the chance to achieve their true potential then they had to live together in a real society where the richest and poorest are seen as equal and where policies try to help achieve that equality and minimise disadvantage. Society isnt some abstract thing - it is the way we live together and look after each other.

M Swanson is a great fan of Margaret Thatcher and in a recent post on another thread she said



The likes of us!!!!!! I rather think this was the way Margaret Thatcher thought too. That somehow if she had the wherewithall to rise out of her ever so humble background then so could everybody else. she had no understanding of the difficulties faced by people in their everyday lives and this is clearly still seen in the comments on the threads about living on £53 per week. Mrs Thatcher did not empathise. If Mrs Thatcher cared about the effects on PEOPLE and therefore on SOCIETY then she would have had to do things differently but no - ideology was all in the Tory Governments of the 80s as it is today. She talked about the miners as "the enemy within" but they were just people fighting for a way to earn a living and she destroyed that with her ideological agenda. People DIED during the Miners strike, poor, hungry, cold and demonised. Do you know people are dying today as a result of welfare reforms? Poor hungry cold and demonised. We have another tory government and another "Enemy Within" in those who are on welfare benefits. We have an ideological drive to reduce the welfare state. there is little or no thought given to the impact of the policies on the health and wellbeing of the poorest, most vulnerable people these policies affect.

Margaret Thatcher changed the labour party too. They were completely unelectable in the early 80s - Michael Foot although intelligent was no match for the Iron Lady, the problems of the Winter of Discontent too recent and they had no ideas other than backwards. Neil Kinnock was better, a step forward but with a foot in traditional socialist values but it was not enough. Labour could only win by choosing a version of the path trodden by Margaret Thatcher - the path that led to votes from a Thatcher influenced "No such thing as society" Me ME MEEEEEEEE generation who believed that society was nothing, that cohesion, state ownership and trade unions were an embarrassing part of their history rather than something which can be harnessed and changed to benefit everyone. We have a labour party who cannot find their Labour roots and so sway as much as a rootless bush in the winds of change.

By all means admire Margaret Thatcher, she was indeed a formidable woman but she wasnt the saviour of Britain. There is a thought that her death and the pantomime which will be her funeral will influence a rise in support of an Independent Scotland. I dont know but We shall see.

Well said.

[squidge]

ahh a bit like the vote for Independence now, and wait and see how it really affects the country in 2016 philosophy.

. Six picketers died during the strike, and three teenagers (Darren Holmes aged 15 and Paul Holmes and Paul Womersley aged 14) died picking coal from a colliery waste heap in the winter.

You are absolutely right I wasnt specific enough with my comment - I have amended it.

[rob murray]

"Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" If that is not hatred that I dont know what is.

Well I just see it as someones opinion on the situation, I could spend all day on here pointing out what I perceive to be hatred.

[equusdriving]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...6pLid%3D170555

[rob murray]

I have been taken aback by the visceral nature of the comments made everywhere over the death of Margaret Thatcher. I am no supporter of her policies and I think her premiership led to dreadful inequalities and hopelessness that we have struggled to rectify since. I could not bring myself to have a street party to celebrate the death of anyone. I read this yesterday on facebook and felt it is worth repeating here. I will not credit it with the persons name but in the midst of the whirlwind of vicious unpleasantness and hate I have read all day, I felt this person said somethings worth reading.

"During the 1984/85 Miners' strike, Margaret Thatcher called my dad, my family & all our mining communities "the enemy within." That really hurt me a lot, as I was only young & had never before seen such vicious class hatred. We suffered a lot. Everybody did. My mum's health was vulnerable, so she had multiple heart attacks due to fuel poverty - no heating in the freezing cold, as the Tories tried to starve my dad back to work. (Mum became a cardiac cripple, was brain damaged & died a few years later, still in her 40s. My dad wasn't long behind her.)

When Norman Tebbit was pulled out of the rubble alive after the IRA Brighton Bombing the same year as the strike, my parents made me promise them that I would never let anger about Thatcherism cause me to lose my humanity. So I have sympathy for Mrs Thatcher's bereaved loved ones. Any loss is painful & it must have been hard for them to watch her deterioration as a frail old woman.

But my thoughts are elsewhere, with all those who have suffered or died before their time due to neo-liberalism - the new name for Thatcherism. They are too many to mention, but include young conscripted Argentinian sailors murderer in Thatcher's war crime on the Belgrano; the 'disappeared' who were thrown out of helicopters in Chile by Thatcher's great friend Pinochet. My thoughts are with all those who died in Reagan's wars. Also with the children in Libya who died when F1-11s based in the UK bombed Gadaffi. My thoughts are with my own relatives who died and with everyone in the former mining communities who is still hurting.My thoughts are also with those who are suffering throughout the world today due to the financial crisis caused by neo-liberal economics and due to imperialist wars.

In the UK there is a new 'enemy within' - anyone poor or disabled who is on benefits or has a spare bedroom. So enjoy your street parties, but I feel rather solemn & sad & don't feel like dancing on an old woman's grave. I'd rather have a quiet glass of champagne & resolve to step up my efforts to bury Thatcher's utterly failed, morally bankrupt ideology. I'll toast those who have gone before and all those throughout the world who have struggled against neo-liberalism. I'll mourn the utter betrayal of the working class by the UK Labour party. Wherever you are in the world, my thoughts are with you in your personal & political struggles. "

Now you may find the language too lefty for your liking but This person had their political views shaped and nurtured by the policies of Margaret Thatcher. Policies which were divisive and have led to dreadful inequalities. I cannot mourn her or feel sad but I cannot dance on her grave either.

Tend to agree with you here, an old senile lady has died, over 20 years since her own party ditched her, cant see why some people are calling for parties to celebrate her death, thats unseemingly disgusting. However people have memories and like you the phrase, as used after the Falklands, of dealing with the enemy within, was deliberately choosen to demonise people who didn't fit her framed script. Thats the truth, she was divisive, no one nation tory, and her everlasting epitaph will be as the person who declared war on sections of her own country. ( the enemy within ) Oh, Neo liberalism pre dates Thatcher by decades, Schumpeter / hayek et all economic philosophers, was where the ideology came from, she ( tutored by Keith Joseph ) became a zealot of what we now know as neo Liberalism

[jacko]

i cant say i ever liked the iron lady, but i guess she stood up for the country far better than the lying twisted snivelling bunch we have had of late.
but i dont agree with a state funeral . who s going to pay for all that pomp ..... us the taxpayer as per usual.

[macadamia]

William Hague mentioned a multi-billion pound sum which Mrs. T saved the country by refusing to pay it to the EU. Mr Hague's reasonable deduction from this was if she could save the country £65 billion pounds, then the cost of a funeral, even on this scale, was comparative peanuts.

I guess, even without a calculator, this makes some kind of sense?

[tonkatojo]

William Hague mentioned a multi-billion pound sum which Mrs. T saved the country by refusing to pay it to the EU. Mr Hague's reasonable deduction from this was if she could save the country £65 billion pounds, then the cost of a funeral, even on this scale, was comparative peanuts.

I guess, even without a calculator, this makes some kind of sense?

I need a calculator to acknowledge what the country would have saved had we not entered the common market by guess whom's party.

[tonkatojo]

[QUOTE=equusdriving;1019997]and this kind of thing cant help!

http://money.aol.co.uk/2013/04/09/bo...6pLid%3D170383[/QUOT

Aye but this was why the torys privatised it, to pay the wealthy toffs huge directorship fees along with the share take ups and bonuses, they just swap around companys's when things go wrong and say "who me, no" , give me a Sir dom or a Lordship to go along with the other perks no one will notice.

[Phill]

Anyone thinking of getting involved with pre-arranged riots next week, the law enforcement agencies are scowering social media looking for ringleaders to round up

Yes, saw the following cross my desk and I thought of the .org: The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTAC), a small group of police and psychiatrists, is monitoring known Thatcher obsessives. They are concerned about those with mental health issues who have fallen through the care net.

[M Swanson]

Indeed Phill. I blame the failure of Care in the Community.

[M Swanson]

William Hague mentioned a multi-billion pound sum which Mrs. T saved the country by refusing to pay it to the EU. Mr Hague's reasonable deduction from this was if she could save the country £65 billion pounds, then the cost of a funeral, even on this scale, was comparative peanuts.

I guess, even without a calculator, this makes some kind of sense?

And the actual figure of 8p per capita, makes even more nonsense of the objections raised by the malcontents. I often wonder how many of the bleaters actually pay tax to begin with. In my experience, they've usually got the loudest mouths.

Anyway, I may need to reduce the 8p, because Mrs Thatcher's family are contributing to the pot. Anybody would think Margaret Hilda had ever asked for any of this.

[M Swanson]

I need a calculator to acknowledge what the country would have saved had we not entered the common market by guess whom's party.

Indeed. It was that old duffer and nasty piece of work, Heath wot done it. Mind you, I can't help wondering how much would have been saved, if Blair hadn't reneged on his pledge to give us an In/Out referendum, which he could have done anytime throughout 12 years in power. It's galling to think, that he campaigned to be an MP in Sedgfield, when he declared that remaining in the EU would be damaging to Britain's economy, jobs and industry. We're still waiting.