By the way i'm not prejudiced or racist just stating what i've seen and heard
.Orger
I don't beleive what i heard
Sorry no sympathy. england go on about 66 and football. should hang there heads about what they did in the clearances which in many quarters in engerland they keep bringing up if they realise you're scottish.
.Orger
By the way i'm not prejudiced or racist just stating what i've seen and heard
.Orger
Got to disagree gleeber ma mate, if memory servers did the english media have an england and germany thing going on a couple of years ago with Stuart Pearce as a "tommy" and some german player as the enemy?Originally Posted by gleeber
It is over the years of hearing how great Banks save was, Moores tackle on Pele etc. Newspapers and announcers are always harping on about "key players" and they themselves treat Scottish football as a joke.
Media in England really brag up there own sports may it be football, cricket, rugby or synconised swimming.
Saying that, I do follow the football and a wee bet will be put on England.
Senior Member
The Duchess of Sutherland was Scottish unless Sutherland has moved recently and it was only by her marriage to Lord Stafford that that he obtained lands in Sutherland and eventually became Duke of Sutherland.
He was already one of the wealthiest men in Britain and needed the income from the Sutherland Estates as much as the Duke of Westminster needs my income. Sellars Loch and Young were all Scots and the thugs they used to effect the Clearances were from Inverness, if I remember correctly.
When they were finally brought to "Justice" for their acts it was a Court in Inverness which absolved them of wrong doing.
I wonder why there isn't as much fuss over the Seaforth Highlanders decending on my home town in the North of England in 1842 and firing on and killing unarmed people demonstrating to stave off starvation?
Don't worry, I promise not to hold that against all Highlanders, it hardly seems worth the effort.
The "Clearances" were already underway in the Highlands and the only part of the Highlands under the Duke's control was two thirds of Sutherland only.
The rest of the Highlands, by far the greatest part was under the control of Clan Chiefs and it was they who did most of the Clearings.
It's always nice and convenient when the blame can be pushed onto "Them" and shifted from "Us". The plaintive cry of, "It was nae me!" is always handy if you can get away with it!
Oh yes, and Football. I won't mention the Faeroes. However, 1966 and that Team winning.
The truth of the matter is that in order to prevent the far more skillful teams of another Continent walking away with the World Cup. And more especially to stop a team playing in Yellow and Blue taking it home to keep it was decided that they should be taught a lesson about what football was really about. "Never mind the ball, kick the player!" and, believe me, Nobby Stiles was quite gentle when compared with some of the tackles made by players from the European (and that includes England) Teams. Skill was out, thuggery was in!
And the fact that the games were played in England might just have helped a little bit.
(And I didn't even mention the Germans or the War!)
Last edited by JAWS; 12-May-06 at 05:02.
Animals I like, people I tolerate.
New Member
how true, kenimac.
Some people have no idea how upsetting it is hearing comments similar to thread mentioned. If people could try to be more empathic towards 'outsiders' then they may feel more welcome in this part of Scotland.
PS Orgers please dont post threads which could upset people ( think first before posting).
from behind the veil all is clear
1K.Orger
Thats the whole point. It's not about the fun and the barter that Golach and his non racist mates will wash down with a swig of fermented hay, it's about the effect, that ignorance, will have on others.
I dont take my references from the media, although the media is a powerful mind controller. Most of the non racists on this thread, have already pointed the finger at the media as the cause of their discrimination.
I'm not prejudiced because I support England when Scotland have been duffed out of a tournament. I'm a football supporter. I would be prejudiced if I had a pre concieved idea that some team or another didnt deserve to win because of some reason or another. Like Argentina or Germany because we fought them in wars, or England because they are so proud of what was a great team effort in 1966. All that stuff has nothing to do with football, but with ignorance of the mechanisms that drive us as human beings.
Just because the English media may be prejudiced at times ac, doesnt mean I have to follow suit. That being said, I am as prejudiced as the rest of you but make a conscious decision to discover why. Some of you are always whining on about the state of the world and complaining about the youth of today. Have any of you ever considered the your own covert ignorance is as much responsible for other peoples behaviour as the anti-social behaviour of others?
Its difficult enough living in modern times without jumped up little dictators taking it upon themselves to decide whats right and wrong when insulting other nations, whether in fun as golach seems to think, or as our resurected regular racist Landmarker will so eloquently put forward, when he admits its water off a ducks back for him.
Its not water of a ducks back for everybody chaps. Wise up and see that the passion some of you call football support, is nothing but an outlet for your covert and creepy hang-ups.
Banned
The previous post mentions
'Its difficult enough living in modern times without jumped up little dictators taking it upon themselves to decide whats right and wrong when insulting other nations, whether in fun as golach seems to think, or as our resurected regular racist Landmarker will so eloquently put forward, when he admits its water off a ducks back for him.,
does that not also refer to the English media...............?? or just to us Scots??
This argument will always rage on
The English media are absolutely horrendous when it comes to football, the FA's choice of new manager for the English squad turned the job down, purely on the fact that he had up to 70 English press camped on his doorstep before he had even made a choice...... shame on them... the FA should have publicly condemned them.
Graham Taylor as a turnip.....
references to the Wars when England play Germany.....
The media were/are quick to jump on players 'indiscretions' in their personal lives (read News of the World etc on Sundays), but then hoist them up to above holiness when they are picked for playing for their country. The melee at the moment covers the young 17 year old and his girlfriend, (her pic was in the Daily Star 3 times yesterday!), with some people projecting SHE could earn up to 4 million this year. COME ON!!!!!!
Of course, I'm not saying the original posters experience should have happened, and I'm saddened that it did, I just wish that the media would take into account that there is another 3 countries that watch television and read the newspapers that are circulated.... I'm sure that if the English supporters had to read and watch how good the French were every day (and how they were going to Win!) and every time they opened a newspaper the attitude may be the same...............??
1K.Orger
Sticks and stones springs to mind............. I'd be more worried if it became physical........as it did with my son when he was living and working up here......and he is Scottish.
As to Scotland crowing interminably and boringly about past successes......we'd need to have the same access to the UK-wide media as English commentators do.
And I hope fervently, porshiepoo, that there is never a UK football team.........in fact, didn't I read somewhere that the Olympic Games team is to be English and not a UK one?
Last edited by Oddquine; 12-May-06 at 13:15.
Banned
What about the guy who got a parcel from vodafone with his name, local address and postcode written as normal but instead of scotland it said Jockland. A bit of banter is acceptable as it is mostly harmless but messing around with mail addresses is just plain wrong and whoever was responsible should be sacked without hesitation.
As for porshiepoo, I think you are being too sensitive as I don't think they'd do this just because you were within earshot but hey, just because your paranoid doesn't mean they are not talking about you.
1K.Orger
I think that was the legendary "Achtung Surrender" headline from the Daily Mirror, if I remember correctly it was Stuart Pearce and Teddy Sheringham with helmets on. The Sun went with the much more tasteful "Let's Blitz Fritz" at the time.
I am not sure whether the English nation actually has a paranoid inferiority complex that seems to show itself through an obsession with sporting success, particularly against countries they have had conflicts against in the past (probably quicker listing the countries they have been at peace with ;o) )
Even with the best will in the world, I find it hard to get behind England due to the jingoistic and xenophobic output from the media. In the last World Cup Final it only took the commentators 30 seconds to mention England, despite the fact that the game was between Brazil and Germany!!
I think that in the original poster's situation, if I had been upset by what was said I would have tackled them about it. It seems a particularly British thing to say nothing at the tome but then put pen to paper as "Irate, Tunbridge Wells" or "Furious, Hemel Hempstead". Perhaps if more people were pulled up about their idle talk then they might show more discretion in the future.
By the way, I wouldn't touch England for a bet. They are as low as 11/2 to win the World Cup, 40 years without a win makes that an appalling bet, particularly given their injuries.
1K.Orger
It seems there are many differents angles on this but the one thing that really sticks out is the resentment that there still is between the English and Scots for things that happened many many years ago.
The atrocities of the clearances, battles etc will never be forgotten - on either side - but seriously, should we be letting history get in the way of the future?
If the papers were full of a german win or a win from any other team in fact, people wouldn't care, it's simply because the team happens to be England. And why this resentment? Because of things that happened in the past, that we have no control over now. It's ridiculous!
Engand did some terrible things in the past, no one denies that, but Scotland also did. It wasn't quite so one sided. Whatever the damage done there is nothing any of us can do about it now, we can't change what happened but we can learn from it - wouldn't it be a sin not to?
The way of the times back then dictated the way people were, it just so happens that people from ALL counties of the UK were a tad more barbaric than we would put up with now. But that was then and this is now.
Keep history alive by teaching it to our kids in school and at home in stories but for gods sake show our youngsters that we can move past these age old events and can be united as a nation - Great Britain.
Football nowadays just seems to be more and more of a hooligans excuse to exact revenge on prejudices that their parents have bought them up to cling on to. It's wrong!
I say do away with england, Scotland etc etc and become just Great Britain.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
http://thetenaciousgardener.blogspot.co.uk/
1K.Orger
Good point!I wonder why there isn't as much fuss over the Seaforth Highlanders decending on my home town in the North of England in 1842 and firing on and killing unarmed people demonstrating to stave off starvation?
Don't worry, I promise not to hold that against all Highlanders, it hardly seems worth the effort.
I think what the Scottish people who are prejudice toward English fail to understand is that the English don't need to live in the past and harp on about the atrocities that were carried out by either country. We really don't!
Fear!The "Clearances" were already underway in the Highlands and the only part of the Highlands under the Duke's control was two thirds of Sutherland only.
The rest of the Highlands, by far the greatest part was under the control of Clan Chiefs and it was they who did most of the Clearings.
It's always nice and convenient when the blame can be pushed onto "Them" and shifted from "Us". The plaintive cry of, "It was nae me!" is always handy if you can get away with it!
IMO England instilled a fear into the scots and unfortuantely some still feel the need to justify this now irrational fear by over playing the part England actually part in these historic events.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
http://thetenaciousgardener.blogspot.co.uk/
.Orger
Maybe the English dont harp on about atrocities but they harp on about winning the 1966 world cup,
1K.Orger
Surely it's better to harp on about the positive things in life rather than the negative????????
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
http://thetenaciousgardener.blogspot.co.uk/
Good point!
I think what the Scottish people who are prejudice toward English fail to understand is that the English don't need to live in the past and harp on about the atrocities that were carried out by either country. We really don't!
Not all of us Scots are prejudice towards English people,Porshie, I think the English are just as bad as the Scottish. Maybe the English don't harp on about the atrocities, but they do harp on about winning the world cup. Forgive me if i am wrong but by going on about something which happened 40 years ago is that not the English living in the past as well.
.Orger
It seems folks are getting paranoid over a couple of remarks made over a football match I find it a bit difficult to understand why the people are so touchy about this
There is the element of anti Englishness in Scotland but there is also the same elements in England although it is now of a more random nature whilst previously it was against Irish people nowadays it seems to be against immigrants
What you have to remember that this stuff is exceedingly seldom taken to any length in Scotland Do you see settler watch signs on the roads ?? Do you see any any anti English graffitti around the towns?? do you know of any English people being passed over for jobs ?? Dont think so !!!!!! I dont like racism of any kind but a couple of chance remarks does not make this county racist
In comparison look at all those BNP posters all over Birmingham at the last council elections and all the less than savoury graffitti on the walls in Tower hamlets It made terrible reading
Its a good job we know that those idiots involved make up a minute element of the English population
So to all these folks from the south who have moved up here no need to put the wagons in a circle just yet ...the natives are harmless if a little noisy during football matches
.Orger
Agree 100%Porshie, its not the English people that most Scots that I know dislike, its the MEDIA and all the worst that comes out when we have this sort of thing rammed down our throats. i.e. 19 blooming 66!!!!! I love my English relations and my English pals a few I have met in here. BUT when the World Cup comes along, I change my nationality every time England plays, because I shout for the team that is playing England, once the World Cup is over sanity reigns, and I am normal again.
Porshie, please dont take it personal, its in the Sots genes
1K.Orger
I agree with you 100% Porshie, those that still harbour resentment need to get over it! I am Scottish, though not from Caithness originally. We moved up to Thurso when I was two years old, so I consider it my home town. I am what the locals called an "Atomic", because my dad was one of the many "outsiders" who moved up to Caithness to work at Dounreay, not long after it was first built. We lived in the "Atomic" housing estate, and for that I am thankful, because we had neighbours from all over the UK, both English and Scottish. Most of my primary school years were spent at Pennyland School in the housing estate, where the teachers were also from various parts of the UK, as well as the pupils. The local children from the Glebe and Scrabster also attended the school, once it was opened in 1962. Therefore I had friends who were both English and Scottish, atomic and non-atomic. It was a good blend, and we all got along, just as my parents did with their neighbours.
I haven't been to Thurso for a number of years, so I don't know if the term "Atomic" is still used for Dounreay workers who moved in from outwith Caithness, BTW.
Anyway, I hope the shop staff have been reading this thread, and that they feel suitably embarrassed by now. Even though it was football they were discussing, they should still have been sensitive to the fact that you are English, and may have taken the matter personally. I don't blame you for being upset!
Last edited by Sporran; 12-May-06 at 18:53.
1K.Orger
Reality check is required me thinks.Lets do a wee backflash here.
Sitting in ma clasroom in primary school.The teacher talks about Scottish history.Yep,we have a cracking culture here in Scotland.Its centuries old.
Teacher talks about Bannockburn,Stirling Bridge,etc.All the folk in ma class including myself go Scotland......Ya beauty!!!!!!!!England......boooooo!!!!.What were we though,6-7-8-9-10 years old.Then ye go to Secondary School and ye get the rest of history.Ye think,wait a minute,how could we fight against the English one minute and then fight in their side as Britain in the World Wars.
So from Primary school where I thought England was a bad word,to Secondary where they didnae seem so bad after all.What are you supposed to think?
Here's ma suggestion.We're all British but see John Motson and Jimmy Hill and the likes when their biast comments about Davie Narey 'Toe-pokes'.....well they can meet me and Arthur Montford(in his tweed jaiket)anytime in Stirling.
P.s see in Braveheart when Edward I says,"The problem with Scotland is its full of Scots."
Was it just me or did anyone else shout at the screen,"Aye,and don't ye forget it."
Their coming to take me away.....haha-hee-hee-ho-ho
Senior Member
I certainly don't think the situation is helped by people like a certain publicity seeking MSP trying to involve the Scottish Executive into a bout of Arm Wrestling with the BBC over the tune they have chosen for the World Cup.
I suspect that without his childish pot stirring no more than a handful of people in the whole of Scotland, never mind the Highlands, would have associated a modern adaptation of a tune more commonly sung as a Hymn.
The next time any of you hear the Hymn “Thine be the Glory” being sung in the Kirk just remember that the Minister has chosen it in order to deliberately cause offence to all Scots and especially the Highlanders.
The hymn is, in fact, the translation into English of a French Poem sung to a tune written by a German who eventually became British.
Then the said MSP has the audacity to moan about the BBC’s lack of pandering to multi-culturalism.
“Methinks he doth protest too much”, to quote a famous English Play-write or to quote a Scots Poet, “My Son, these maxims make a rule, An lump them ay thegither: The Rigid Righteous is a fool, The Rigid Wise anither;”
The best advice I can give to him and to those of that ilk is the follow that good old Lancashire advice of, “Get back in thi cheese, there’s a maggot missin’”
The tune was chosen as a link between the England Supporters and their German Hosts and I suspect that during the Competition it is far more important to avoid any animosity between the two sets of Supporters than to worry about a very tenuous link to the Duke of Cumberland two hundred and sixty years and twenty-six days ago.
Perhaps if those so affronted by the chosen tune were to show the same concern in ensuring the success of "Cuil Lodair Proiseact Cuimhneachain A’Bhlair" (I hope I've got the Gaelic right) then I for one might have a little more respect for their pompous posturing.
Besides that, it's not true that the English are stuck in the past.
"Lets hear it for the victors at Flodden!"
Animals I like, people I tolerate.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks