MMR Jab.

[Leanne]

It's all out there if you can bear to look into the facts.

Child post polio infection...

[_Ju_]

but if the percentage of kids who gets the mmr falls below a certain figure, then all kids are at risk, wheather they have had it or not.

You are right. It's what is called heard health/immunity by vets.

[_Ju_]

Athrun had his MMR just over a week ago, he hates injections as it is but i was always told it was safe, until after he had the injection (And after him calling the Nurse "BAD")

Ever since he has had the jab he really hasnt been himself. He is alot more gurny than usual, not sleeping well at all, gone off food quite a bit (apart from chocolate of course)

Im now kinda regretting him getting it to be honest. It really has put him off his way. if he is not back to his normal self soon i will be down at the docs with him.

All children reacting to the vaccination develope a fever. The nurse will advise you what you can give him for it.....

[_Ju_]

I really wouldnt say that either adhd or autism is a small risk. As for the swine flu jab what a huge mountain out of a mole hill that was no where near enough research has been done on that vacination for kids ast all so ne never got thst either.

The small risk is of the adverse reaction happening, not of the individual imapact of the adverse reaction. Autism/adhd are have a huge impact on the individual and their families. The likelihood of it ocurring with a mmr jab is very small.

[roadbowler]

leanne, i'm well aware of what polio does. My uncle is extremely crippled from it. Does this excuse infecting millions of people with sv-40? Is medical sciences' answer to polio, which is still around, to infect potentially more people with an even deadlier virus that causes cancer? Yes, polio is still here and active. However, it's not called polio anymore. Diagnostic criteria was conveniently changed after the vaccine came out. Sounds crazy aye but, look into it for yourself!

[toodiemac]

Quite interesting information about the ingredients in this vaccine - something everybody should know from reading the patient information leaflet which comes with the vaccine, but I'm sure some parents are not handed the leaflet to read before agreeing to the jab.

It's not a scare tactic (like somebody said earlier about the doctor saying their child would die from measles), it's just the facts.

MMR

This injection is given between the ages of 12 and 15 months, and is to vaccinate against three quite mild childhood illnesses, measles, mumps and rubella.
It contains: Live measles virus, mumps virus, rubella virus, sorbitol, sodium phosphate, sucrose, gelatine, human albumin, chick embryos, foetal bovine serum (aborted calf baby), human diploid cell (aborted human baby), neomycin (as stated in MMR 2 manufacturer’s data sheet, Merck, Sharp and Dohme LTD).

Why are there so many chemicals in vaccines?

To start with, a virus or bacteria cannot grow without unclean conditions (much the same as a naturally occurring illness cannot take hold in the body without a diseased condition already being present). To manufacture a vaccine virus, they therefore have to use animal or human tissue and blood products to grow the virus or bacteria on.
They also have to add preservatives (which until recently was thimerosal, a Mercury compound. It is used in the manufacturing process, just not as an actual added ingredient), or something like 2-phenoxyethanol, which is the main ingredient of anti-freeze.
They then have to put in antibiotics, such as neomycin or polymyxin to stop the child getting a vaccine site infection, and to prevent bacteria from spreading round the internal organs (known as vaccinia). This would be a more common problem if antibiotics weren’t routinely added.
As well as this, if the vaccine contains ‘killed’ or inactive viruses, then they will add in a substance to render the virus dead, usually formaldehyde, which is one of the world’s most toxic substances and is carcinogenic. There are also additional PH buffering chemicals, emulsifiers, adsorbers and stabilizers sometimes known as vaccine 'excipients', for example, Octoxynol 9, polysorbate 20 and 80 and Sodium borate.
Finally, they include adjuvants, such as aluminium or other heavy metals. They put in adjuvants to kick the immune system into producing more antibodies.
The child would never produce a readable antibody level to any of the vaccine virus, so they have to put in extremely toxic adjuvants like aluminium so that the antibody response will increase. The child is then thought to be ‘immune’ to the diseases, when in all reality, he or she is probably just reacting to heavy metals.

What side-effects can these chemicals cause?

2-Phenoxyethanol: This is the ingredient that has replaced thimerosal. It can cause systematic poisoning, headache, shock, weakness, convulsions, kidney damage, kidney failure, cardiac failure, death.
The Ethylene Oxide component is a skin irritant also responsible for causing burns, blisters, dermatitis, and eczema conditions (according to vaccine data sheet toxicology notes and Marshall Sittig, Handbook of Toxic and Hazardous Chemicals and Carcinogens, 2nd Ed. (Park Ridge, NJ: Noyes Publications, 1985).

Aluminium: Aluminium is a carcinogen, that is capable of causing cancer. The bureau of Biologics stated that ‘there is little doubt that some of the material containing aluminium as an adjuvant appears to be carcinogenic…’
In animal tests, it caused fibrosarcomas at the injection site. (You can read more about this in Jamie Murphy’s book, ‘What Every Parent Should Know About Immunization’, Earth Healing Products).

Aluminium has also been linked to memory loss, lack of concentration, dementia and other brain injuries.

Formaldehyde: Formaldehyde is a class 1 carcinogen, labelled by the Environmental Protection Agency in the US as a ‘hazardous waste.’
According to Dr. Penny Stanway, famous author of ‘Breast Is Best’ and ‘Green Babies’, ‘sensitivity to formaldehyde has been linked with eye, nose, throat and lung irritation, headaches, depression, memory loss and dizziness. 1 in 5 people exposed to formaldehyde may be affected…’
She goes onto say in a chapter about vaccination, that ‘Parents in a green family come up against a difficult decision, whether to submit their child to immunisation..in affect, the decision comes down to a choice between what is best for your child and what is best for everyone else’s children. From a green point of view, the latter might be the preferred choice.’
Clearly, this shows that even doctors themselves are sometimes unaware of the toxic ingredients in vaccines, they simply administer them.

Neomycin and other antibiotics: These suppress the immune system, leaving the child more susceptible to colds and virus. Some children are also allergic to them. Repeated use of antibiotics can render them ineffective against major illnesses such as meningitis. They have also been linked with the rise in allergies such as asthma and eczema.

Octoxynol 9 contains glycol ether which is toxic and has been directly linked to infertility problems in men. Namely low sperm count, abnormally shaped sperm and sperm with poor motility. Painters and decorators in particular have been warned not to work with paints containing glycol, yet it is happily injected into male babies.

Polysorbate 20 and 80 are detergent type chemicals. After injection they convert into sorbitol and ethylene oxide which is more toxic than the original chemical. It can cause changes in heart function, infections of the blood/brain barrier, seizures and even death.

Polysorbate 80 is also a known infertility agent used by the Population Council of WHO in the development of anti-pregnancy vaccines since the 1960's. See my article on this website here:

http://infertility.suite101.com/arti...es_infertility

Sodium Borate is neuro toxic and not meant for internal use, yet it is used in some vaccines, including the new Gardasil vaccine for cervical cancer. At a cellular level it can cause changes to DNA. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, flushed skin, changes in respiration and pulse, lethargy, seizures, shock, metabolic acidosis, vascular collapse and death. It can also cause mental illness such as depression, mental confusion and hyperactivity. It may be a clue as to why there are so many children with depression and behaviour disorders.

This study, (Gordon AS ; Prichard JS ; Freedman MH
Can. Med. Assoc. J.; VOL 108 ISS Mar 17 1973, P719-721, 724, (REF 6) [IPA]) reported that when 2 infants had their soothers dipped in sodium borate and honey, they developed seizure disorders.

Another study, (Brit. Med. J.; 2(5705), 314, 1970; (REF:11)) cited the case of a baby who died as a result of sodium borate in his disposible nappy/diaper and several other babies who became seriously ill. The British Pediatrics Association called for sodium borate not to be used during infancy, yet it is sometimes in vaccines.

Animal Products and Human Foetal Tissue: Children produce antibodies to ALL elements of the vaccine, not simply the viruses, so children vaccinated with gelatine containing vaccines can sometimes develop allergies to food stuffs containing gelatine. There is also a risk of transmission of BSE and the human form, CJD, if bovine serum is used, and contamination of vaccine with animal diseases (such as Simian Virus 40, found in Polio vaccines). Because they enter the blood stream, they are also capable of permanently altering our DNA.
This is why some vaccinologist’s prefer to use human tissue for vaccines. However, using human foetal tissue also presents problems, as the recipient can then develop antibodies to human tissue, which results in auto-immunity, whereby the person’s body attacks its own nerves and brain cells.

[telfordstar]

My oldest son has autism and to this day im still wary about the MMR jag. Prior to having this jag my son waved and was saying bye bye then he had the jag and stopped speaking!!!

I am now in the same postion with my 18 month old he hasnt had his mmr yet!! and wont be getting it untill i see speech and what i mean by that is sentences. And i am still thinking about going for the single injections but at this moment in time the mmr is a no go.

Im glad you posted on this as i was considering private messaging you on here to hear your views as i know your son has autism. Had a lenghly talk with a doctor today and My son isnt having the mmr now to at least nursery time and even then if i do go ahead with it i will be going for the single vacination regardless of the cost.

I get the dangers of not having mmr as ether one espcially meseals in worst case can cause death but whos to say in years to come he may well( and i hope he dosnt) come down with diabetes or epilepsy which in worst case either fit can cause death but there aint a immunisation to prevent this!!! Im tearing my hair out over this.

[toodiemac]

If your instinct is telling you not to go ahead with the MMR at the moment, then why not have a really good look at the measles statistics since that's what is worrying you most. Try to find some unbiased information about the disease. Of course it can be a killer, but only in a very small proportion of cases. In 1987 for example, the year before MMR was introduced, 86,000 children caught measles and out of those, 16 died (NHS figures). That was tragic for those 16 children, no denying that, and they most probably had underlying health conditions, but just to put it into perspective,

The odds of being struck by lightning: 1 in 5000
The odds of being killed by terrorist in the US: 1 in 100,000

As for mumps and rubella, well even the NHS states that these are mild childhood illnesses with very little chance of serious side effects.

Yes, no doubt about it, measles is the most serious of the three, but years ago, before the vaccine, parents used to takes their children to 'measles parties' to deliberately infect their children just to get it over and done with, so I'm thinking it can't have been such a scary disease as we believe it is nowadays?

Just to mention a comparison, in countries where they use the chickenpox vaccine as standard, such as the USA, they all seem to think of chickenpox as a major, killer disease and they are very afraid of it! Yes chickenpox can kill, just as measles can, but we aren't scared of chickenpox because the vaccine isn't yet in our childhood vaccination schedule! Most of us have never heard of anybody who has died from chickenpox, ditto measles. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it is very, very rare.

[DOLLY30]

I waited and gave my son his MMR at 20 months. Have not given him the swine flu jag, really do not know what to do about this one?

[CK1945]

Hiya,

My thoughts are if you dismiss all the evidence that the MMR is ‘as safe as a vaccine can be’ basing it on the idea that evidence being produced by big pharmaceutical companies must be biased then surely you need to dismiss Dr Wakefield’s research as he was being paid by lawyers to find any evidence that the vaccine causes Autism. He wasn’t an independent researcher by any means and when you are being paid to find a specific result and lo and behold you find it then I consider it to be suspect, especially if none of your peers can find or test it themselves. Even then you got to disregard all the actual independent researchers who are investigating Autism and haven’t found any link at all.

What you are left with is a conspiracy in which not only all the pharmaceutical companies are involved in but also governements and all the smaller independent researchers across the globe along with most doctors and GP's etc and in this day and age of instant news I find that very hard to accept. Same as I find it very difficult to accept that HIV doesn’t cause Aids or that it’s the HIV medication that actually causes Aids or similar medical conspiracies.

Personally I think that we have become too complacent. Most people just accept the measles as an ordinary childhood disease without realizing how devastating it can be (basically because the vaccine was so successful in the past). Also just look at the number of people popping pills without ever either being told or investigating for themselves the possible side effects. Every vaccine carries a risk as does every pill that you take and it is up to you to accept the consequences of either taking the medicine or not.
At the moment I think that not having the MMR is far riskier than having it but I can understand parents reluctance given the totally misleading and sensationalist stance the media takes on issues like this. It is one of the reasons that I decided to stop reading the papers and the news on the telly. Totally irresponsible reporting.

All we can ask of parents is to investigate both sides so at least they can make an informed decision. I found the below link on the Bad Astronomy blog (excellent site BTW) about parents who were anti-vaccine and have now turned into proponents of the MMR vaccine: http://www.skeparent.com/posts/2010/...vaccinate.html – I thought that someone might find it interesting.

Unfortunately we still don’t understand the causes of Autism and I believe that this is the main problem. Instinctively we want to know the causes and when there are none available we start searching for anything that will help us make sense of what is happening. We are getting closer to the answer and I hope that by discovering the cause we will regain our trust in the medical profession and stop kids from dying from entirely preventable diseases like the measles.

[roadbowler]

oh here we go, conspiracies eh? Well, 3 of the top medical journals is the us must be conspiracy theorists. Everyone is still operating on the premise that the vaccine works! There is ample published and respected evidence they do not. 2006 there was a mumps outbreak in the us. 6,584 cases on a college campus. Documented evidence that virtually every single sufferer was vaccinated twice! New England Journal of Medicine, 2008; 358: 1580-9. Outbreak of measles in a highschool in us that had documented proof 98% were vaccinated properly. (there goes your herd immunity theory btw) 70% of cases were considered failures and had a history of measles vacc at 12 months or older. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48% of cases in the outbreak. no evidence of waning immunity was a contributing factor. American Journal of Public Health 1987 Apr; 77(4): 434-438. A 12 year Finnish study found 7 out of 9 vaccinated children catch measles if sharing a bedroom with an infected sibling or contact with other infected children. They conclude genuine protection may not be achieveable with vaccination. American Journal of Epidemiology 1998 Mikko Paunio

[Leanne]

Vaccines don't prevent you becoming infected they prevent you from having a fullblown outbreak of the disease by allowing your body to recognise it and fight it before it multiplies too much. I've been vaccinated against measles and still had it - but it wasn't as serious as my sisters. She was pre-vaccination age and was hospitalised for 2 weeks in paediatric icu when she caught it from me.

Herd immunity only prevents spread if enough people are immunised to halt the spread. Once the spread has started nothing but our own immunities can stop it

[Red]

Putting aside the fact that there is no proven link between autism and the MMR jab.

Putting aside the coincidence of autism manifesting itself in the same time span of a child's life that the MMR jab is administered.

Putting aside the (what can be described at best) circumstantial evidence that everyone appears to know someone who developed autism shortly after having had the MMR jab.

Putting aside all those people who haven't had the MMR jab and developed autism regardless.

I would sooner have an autistic child than a dead child...

[cuddlepop]

Putting aside the fact that there is no proven link between autism and the MMR jab.

Putting aside the coincidence of autism manifesting itself in the same time span of a child's life that the MMR jab is administered.

Putting aside the (what can be described at best) circumstantial evidence that everyone appears to know someone who developed autism shortly after having had the MMR jab.

Putting aside all those people who haven't had the MMR jab and developed autism regardless.

I would sooner have an autistic child than a dead child...

While I agree with what you have said there have been cases when the mother has actually killed her autistic child.
Its justtoo difficult to carry on and with major cuts on the Social Work budget I dread to think what its going to be like.Its bad eneogh now.


until you live with autism you havent a clue what its like.

[chaz]

Putting aside the fact that there is no proven link between autism and the MMR jab.

Putting aside the coincidence of autism manifesting itself in the same time span of a child's life that the MMR jab is administered.

Putting aside the (what can be described at best) circumstantial evidence that everyone appears to know someone who developed autism shortly after having had the MMR jab.

Putting aside all those people who haven't had the MMR jab and developed autism regardless.

I would sooner have an autistic child than a dead child...

I agree with the fact autistic is better than dead, but not with some of the rest of your post, but as you say putting these aside

[chaz]

While I agree with what you have said there have been cases when the mother has actually killed her autistic child.
Its justtoo difficult to carry on and with major cuts on the Social Work budget I dread to think what its going to be like.Its bad eneogh now.


until you live with autism you havent a clue what its like.

Best post so far, as its so easy for others to judge and be experts.The reality is harsh on a daily basis but we learn to cope the best we can

[redeyedtreefrog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjBlzKWpko0

[Red]

until you live with autism you havent a clue what its like.

Okay point taken.

Until you live without a child who has died you haven't a clue what it's like.

[cuddlepop]

until you live with autism you havent a clue what its like.

Okay point taken.

Until you live without a child who has died you haven't a clue what it's like.

We are discussing the MMR vaccine and not a child death.

I have been in a position whereby my child had to have life saving heart surgery so had a brief moment with "death" when she was on the heart lung machine but I knew without this op she would have died.

Children wont die if they dont have the MMR vaccine there is an alternative.Parents should be given that joice ,especially if autism is in the family.

[Vistravi]

We are discussing the MMR vaccine and not a child death.

I have been in a position whereby my child had to have life saving heart surgery so had a brief moment with "death" when she was on the heart lung machine but I knew without this op she would have died.

Children wont die if they dont have the MMR vaccine there is an alternative.Parents should be given that joice ,especially if autism is in the family.

Exactly cuddlepop. I will not be allowing our child to have the MMR jag due to the fact that my brother is austistic(sp) I will be vacinated our child against the dieseases the MMR is supposed to vacinate them against but through single injections only.