MMR Jab.

[davem]

Wakefield's work was interesting in that it was looking more broadly than the MMR vaccine. I think he was less than systematic and detached in his methods; but the ferocity with which the medical establishment went after him was very much as a result of his questioning orthodox views.
Herd immunity is a valid concept, if 90% of the population is immune there is a far lower incidence of the infection. So if as an individual you choose not to immunise you still benefit from the many that do. You have to live with the choice but it is your choice to make.
I have worked with many children who were damaged by rubella and met a child as damaged as you could be by measles. These cases of major harm are indeed very rare but the effects can be unbelievably grave.
After years of study and interest in science I am of the view that just because something cannot be proved it is not necessarily untrue, no one has found the right question yet. Most of the people who choose not to go the MMR route know someone who feels their child was affected adversely, if that is a family member then perhaps they are the very people who ought not to, if there is a link. I still feel it is harsh that the single injection choice is made so difficult.

[cuddlepop]

Whats everyones views on this?

Heres my dilema. I have a son who is just past 2 years old. I havnt let him have the mmr jab yet as im having some issues with it. I have a 9 year old who suffers fro ADHD. I can pinpoint the time of change with him to the time of the mmr jab. I know all the medical world swear the guys findings was basically a pack off lies but to experince what i have so far with my son im finding this hard to swallow.

Just really looking for views and opinions really.

In my opinion if you have a genetic disposition to an autistic condition in the family please dont give your child the MMR jab.

This is early science and I have no link but the evidence I have gathered over 18 years would indicate genetics play a major part in developing this condition.
Something is "wrong" with their immune system and they just cant cope with the triple vaccine.

My daughters autistic,my brother and his son.My xhusband also has a nephew.
My own son will not be given this mmr to his child its just not worth the risk and will be giving it single vaccines.
Living with an autistic child is stressful,heartbreaking,intensive and rewarding all at the same time.

Doctor Wakefield was "hung out to dry" nothing he did to those children was against the wishes of the parents.
Be honest, the medical profession does not want a link to be proven think of the compensation payouts.

[onecalledk]

hi there

you know your son better than anyone else, if your instinct is NOT to give him the MMR then go with that. My son has never had the MMR and also did not get the booster. I realise that Measles kills as do other diseases but it is not set in stone that a child with measles will die. This is a childhood disease and if my child caught measles then nature would do what nature does. HOWEVER if something were to happen to my child after i decided to let a doctor inject him with a manmade vaccine then i couldnt forgive myself.

I remember it well when I sat in front of the doctor and told her i was refusing the MMR , her words "so you are quite prepared to let your child die from measles then".... this was neither true, helpful or professional!

There is and always will be controversy around the MMR , EVERY human being on the planet is different in their make up so it is not true to say that the vaccine is safe for EVERYONE. Unfortunately parents will continue to get conflicting advise from all corners.

As i said in my opening reply , YOU know your son, trust your instincts .....

K

[Vistravi]

Whats everyones views on this?

Heres my dilema. I have a son who is just past 2 years old. I havnt let him have the mmr jab yet as im having some issues with it. I have a 9 year old who suffers fro ADHD. I can pinpoint the time of change with him to the time of the mmr jab. I know all the medical world swear the guys findings was basically a pack off lies but to experince what i have so far with my son im finding this hard to swallow.

Just really looking for views and opinions really.

I had it and i was fine. But one of my collegues said she would give the mmr in seperate injections not as one as there was no link between autsim(sp) and the seperate injections but there is with the mmr.

[telfordstar]

i have 4 kids and 3 out the 4 have all had their mmr, the 4th gets his on the 1st of march, i have never hesitated for 1 minute in giving it, because what it protects against is far worse than the small risk that goes with having it, its like the swine flu jab, both my boys have had it as they are under 5, just wish my girls could get it aswell.

I really wouldnt say that either adhd or autism is a small risk. As for the swine flu jab what a huge mountain out of a mole hill that was no where near enough research has been done on that vacination for kids ast all so ne never got thst either.

[telfordstar]

hi there

you know your son better than anyone else, if your instinct is NOT to give him the MMR then go with that. My son has never had the MMR and also did not get the booster. I realise that Measles kills as do other diseases but it is not set in stone that a child with measles will die. This is a childhood disease and if my child caught measles then nature would do what nature does. HOWEVER if something were to happen to my child after i decided to let a doctor inject him with a manmade vaccine then i couldnt forgive myself.

I remember it well when I sat in front of the doctor and told her i was refusing the MMR , her words "so you are quite prepared to let your child die from measles then".... this was neither true, helpful or professional!

There is and always will be controversy around the MMR , EVERY human being on the planet is different in their make up so it is not true to say that the vaccine is safe for EVERYONE. Unfortunately parents will continue to get conflicting advise from all corners.

As i said in my opening reply , YOU know your son, trust your instincts .....

K

Thank you. This is the excat way im feeling but folk make out that you really couldnt give a monkeys about you child. Obviously docters will say its safe its their job thats why drug companys line their pockets to do. My eldest son was 18m when he got mmr and ive deliberatly left my youngest to as late as i could to see what like a boy he turned out to be but im not prepared to experiment on him to prove anything. My daughter who is 6 and also had mmr is having quite a few speach and other problems as will a link maybe. Theres a nephew on my husbands side who also has adhd as well. Im going to listen to all the doc says but my head and heart is saying no!!!


Thank you all for you opinions its been very interesting hearing views.

[Vistravi]

I really wouldnt say that either adhd or autism is a small risk. As for the swine flu jab what a huge mountain out of a mole hill that was no where near enough research has been done on that vacination for kids ast all so ne never got thst either.

Thank you. This is the excat way im feeling but folk make out that you really couldnt give a monkeys about you child. Obviously docters will say its safe its their job thats why drug companys line their pockets to do. My eldest son was 18m when he got mmr and ive deliberatly left my youngest to as late as i could to see what like a boy he turned out to be but im not prepared to experiment on him to prove anything. My daughter who is 6 and also had mmr is having quite a few speach and other problems as will a link maybe. Theres a nephew on my husbands side who also has adhd as well. Im going to listen to all the doc says but my head and heart is saying no!!!


Thank you all for you opinions its been very interesting hearing views.

Very true about the swine flu jab. I decided not to have it through lack of research and i wasn't going to put my unborn child in risk of something i knew nothing about.

You can give your son the mmr in single injections and he is still protected from the diseases. There isn't a link to autism or ADHD to the single injections. It's what i will do with my baby.

[Vistravi]

Athrun had his MMR just over a week ago, he hates injections as it is but i was always told it was safe, until after he had the injection (And after him calling the Nurse "BAD")

Ever since he has had the jab he really hasnt been himself. He is alot more gurny than usual, not sleeping well at all, gone off food quite a bit (apart from chocolate of course)

Im now kinda regretting him getting it to be honest. It really has put him off his way. if he is not back to his normal self soon i will be down at the docs with him.

Your facebook description was funny lol. I've never heard a child take such a bad reaction to a needle like he did. I'm sure he'll be back to normal soon.

[kgs]

It is such a dilema as no matter what you decide it has consequences for all those around you. There is always the niggling doubt that your doing the right thing giving any vaccine but I know that what persuaded me to go ahead with MMR was the herd immunity theory. I met someone whos child (age4) couldnt have MMR due to having a transplant. Due to the very low MMR uptake in her area there was a measles outbreak and both her kids got it, the 4 year old is now blind and her newborn ended up with hearing problems. I couldnt have lived with myself knowing I could have contributed towards something like that and I know how angry I would have felt in her situation. Doctors can give advice and reassurance, they are not employed by drug companies and do not directly receive any money from them! It is your decision and a difficult one to make. If I had decided against it I was prepared to pay privately for single vaccines so as mine and other kids would still be protected.

[roadbowler]

well, your friend is either extremely unlucky as even statistically this is quite a phenomenol occurrence or it is possible that they did not have measles at all and some other type of infection. October to december of 2004 there was a measles 'outbreak' in england and wales. There were 589 diagnoses. 400ish were actually recorded as notified. However, after all these diagnosed cases were actually tested only 8 were actually confirmed measles cases. That is a 74 times rate of overdiagnosis! This happens during every measles 'outbreak' in the uk of late.

[roadbowler]

davem, if you look at the herd immunity theory you will find that the theory is based on what would happen if the disease took its natural course. It has nothing to do with vaccination. The purveyors of the vaccines twist this theory and use it to demonise those who choose not to vaccinate because they know quite simply that the efficacy rates of vaccines are very low or none at all. Which is one reason why they give boosters rather than antibody tests. People are supposed to believe blindly that they are protected when research shows those they test for antibodies the results are staggering. More than half in every study do not have the antibodies. Having the antibodies does not mean much either. Antibodies does not mean immunity! There is much more to the immune system than that, and important physiological processes are bypassed by introducing live or killed viruses via injection into the bloodstream. They use the herd immunity theory to place the blame on the unvaccinated. Take measles for instance. An unvaccinated child gets measles these days and the complications are rare now in healthy children and then they have lifelong immunity however, an unvaccinated child may pass measles to an vaccinated child. The vaccinated child will develop 'atypical measles' which is more severe and has more likelihood that they will develop complications and perhaps die. On top of this, the vaccinated child may contract atypical measles several times. So, it is obvious the vaccinated child is more at risk from complications and death from measles than the unvaccinated.

[changilass]

If its so obvious that the vaccinated child is at more risk than the unvaccinated child, then can you explain why they still use vaccines?

Surely you cannot be the only one that knows these 'facts'. Why has there not been a major rethink. Its not as if the vaccines are free, so the governemtn could save a fortune by not vaccinating.

[StacNKel]

I have 2 kids age 8 and 6... both of which had the MMR... they had a slight fever on the 10th day after but that was it. I think i have to agree with what everyone says just go with your own feelings on it... you know whats best for your child.

[rob1]

Would we even be having this thread if it was anyother vaccination? There has never been published link between autism and the MMR jag. Dr Wakefields paper even says that there is no proven link. It was only after publication that he said it would be better for single jags until more reaserch was done. Guess what, loads more research has been done and low and behold....no link.

[chaz]

Would we even be having this thread if it was anyother vaccination? There has never been published link between autism and the MMR jag. Dr Wakefields paper even says that there is no proven link. It was only after publication that he said it would be better for single jags until more reaserch was done. Guess what, loads more research has been done and low and behold....no link.

There is definatly a link in my case, and in others.I have written evidence that the mmr affected my son and will always have the guilt that i said yes to him having the vaccination

[davem]

Well roadbowler - obviously the intention of vaccination is to put as many children at risk as possible.
A population that is immune to a degree from a particular infection will obviously not secumb as readily as one that is not. You clearly have your own theory, I have mine - please don't waste any further energy pointing out the error of my ways I am happy with the world view I hold.
Science is inexact, changes in socialisation and interaction are most noticed around when MMR is recommended. Parents across the land have felt there was a strong association with MMR and later difficulties in their child's development. I choose to believe my children will benefit from the many around them who have had the MMR and made my choices accordingly.
The whole point of the thread is should you or should you not, many parents I have met associated a marked change in their child's persona to that specific time, that is a limited sample of the population as I used to work with children who needed extra support. Many diseases are now things of the past, vaccination should be a choice freely made, if given all the information around the choice is made; no pressure should be applied.

[Sianymo]

Doctors can give advice and reassurance, they are not employed by drug companies and do not directly receive any money from them!

The Doctors may not be employed directly by the drug companies but they do receive a payment for each head/injection given.. same goes for the seasonal flu jab.. Why do you think they push it so hard?

[poppett]

In 1959 I was vaccinated against whooping cough along with the rest of my class...........five days later I was too ill to be moved to hospital and was nursed at home from whooping cough and took months to recover, and still have the "whoop" when I cough to this day.

I also reacted badly to a tetanus jag in 1971 having developed similar mild symptoms to lockjaw, and have never allowed a vaccination needle near me since.

Medics decided I must have a "natural inbuilt immuity".

[Amy-Winehouse]

My oldest son has autism and to this day im still wary about the MMR jag. Prior to having this jag my son waved and was saying bye bye then he had the jag and stopped speaking!!!

I am now in the same postion with my 18 month old he hasnt had his mmr yet!! and wont be getting it untill i see speech and what i mean by that is sentences. And i am still thinking about going for the single injections but at this moment in time the mmr is a no go.

[roadbowler]

If its so obvious that the vaccinated child is at more risk than the unvaccinated child, then can you explain why they still use vaccines?

Surely you cannot be the only one that knows these 'facts'. Why has there not been a major rethink. Its not as if the vaccines are free, so the governemtn could save a fortune by not vaccinating.

yes, but, how many nhs administrators are in the pockets of big pharma? The doctors do what they are told by whatever nhs guidelines are put out. I forget who said at the top that doctors are not paid by pharmaceutical companies. Well, indirectly they are. Practices receive bonuses for a certain percentage of uptake for the mmr. Paid by the nhs administrators who decide which companies vaccine they choose. An even sadder fact that gps even go as far as saying what they said to onecalledk above. It isn't like Dr. Wakefield is the only doctor claiming a link between autism, crohns disease and persistent measles infection in the vaccinated. besides, in my view, the mothers know more than any doctor about changes in their bairns after vaccines. I'm sure our own Chaz here has had her claims poo poo'd more than once by a doctor. That IS sad. I've seen many say even just here how the child will present with a fever, crying, general gurniness, decreased appetite, sleeplessness etc. Now, if you went into a doctor presenting these symptoms on any other occasion than post-vaccination they wouldn't just send you home with some calpol. They'd be suspecting encephalopathy or etc,etc,etc and would be keeping the child in for tests as these symptoms are worrying indeed. I agree everyones got to make their choices but, bit difficult when your own gp basically tells you, oh, you want your child to die from measles then? As pointed out above in onecalledks' post? Not to mention the absolute rubbish about the herd immunity theory. Changi, yes why haven't they had a major rethink on the polio vaccine for example? It is well known, sometimes even called the biggest medical "blunder" of all time, millions, perhaps tens of millions of americans and europeans were infected with cancer causing sv-40 virus in the polio vaccine in the mid 1950's til the 1960's. Sv-40 though is still showing up in bloodwork of children currently that are suffering certain cancers. Lots of countries HAVE had massive rethinks on vaccination. Some have stopped certain vaccination programs altogether! Ie. Sweden and whooping cough and many others. So, obviously it's not just me that has these "facts". It's all out there if you can bear to look into the facts.