When Neocons rule the world

[fred]

How many millions are their lies, greed and lust for power going to kill before the world wakes up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4939810.stm

I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq. Those who want to come and help are welcome. Those who come to interfere and destroy are not.

Paul Wolfowitz

[JAWS]

How many millions are their lies, greed and lust for power going to kill before the world wakes up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4939810.stm

Good question Fred. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. I now know I can sleep peacefully for a good while yet because the world is in safe hands.
Wake me when the revolutionaries try to take over so I can avoid the death and destruction they will try to bring about yet again.

[fred]

Good question Fred. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. I now know I can sleep peacefully for a good while yet because the world is in safe hands.
Wake me when the revolutionaries try to take over so I can avoid the death and destruction they will try to bring about yet again.

A very common viewpoint, so long as it's only Iraqis, Indians and Africans he kills why should you bother.

[JAWS]

A very common viewpoint, so long as it's only Iraqis, Indians and Africans he kills why should you bother.

I didn't know India had been invaded, I must have slept through that one as well.
Africa? You mean somebody has started to do something about Darfur at last or is that yet another invention of the Neo-Con controlled media?
Who is it that is prolonging that particular situation by blocking UN intervention?
Who is it that is telling their followers to prepare for a long and bloody struggle if there is intervention?
Are they the Neo-cons you are talking about?
Perhaps it was the Neo-Cons who are secretly slaughtering innocent Egyptians and arranging suicide bombings in Sri Lanka?
I'm waiting to see which Neo-Con led group move into Nepal in the next few years.
Neo-Cons as a solution to the over population of the World, now there's a thought.
Do I detect a hint of racism concerning my lack of interest in the Worldwide Neo-Con problem?
Now where have I heard that accusation before? Whatever happened to the good old "running-dog of the capitalist imperialist warmongers" or even worse
"establishment lackey" and even more amusing "fascist pig"?
Neo-Con doesn't have the same ring to it at all, it's not half as poetical.
Oh how I miss the good old days when all those things were new and half believable.
Now they're as dated as Dr. Strangelove except that it had a more realistic plot and a far more satisfactory ending!
I was really disappointed when I found out it wasn't a documentary.

[fred]

I didn't know India had been invaded, I must have slept through that one as well.

In India people are dying of malaria because Paul Wolfowitz decided to ignore the experts and hand over loads of money which a third world country is going to be saddled with repaying to rich pharmaseutical companies for a treatment which doesn't work. Then he just lies to the world saying they have reduced malaria by 98% in an area where malaria has increased.

In 2003 when America invaded Iraq Paul Wolfowitz was US Deputy Secretary of Defense to fellow Neocon Donald Rumsfeld, they ignored the experts a lot of people died and they told a lot of lies about it.

[obiron]

I have heard the name but can someone explain what a Neocon means????

[fred]

I have heard the name but can someone explain what a Neocon means????

In general it means anyone who used to belong to another party but converted to the Rebublican party, a new conservative.

In this context it refers to a group of people who follow the political phylosophy of Leo Strauss who have taken all the key positions in the American government. With the fall of the Soviet Union most people thought that it was a chance for world peace, that now America didn't have anyone who could possibly threaten them they could reduce the size of their army and stop making bombs, spend the money they used to spend on killing people on doing some good in the world. The Neocons saw it as an oportunity for America to take over the world, not just be the most powerful country but have absolute power over everyone and advocated increasing military spending not reducing it. They planned the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq to take control of the Middle East and its resources long before 9/11.

[JAWS]

In India people are dying of malaria because Paul Wolfowitz decided to ignore the experts and hand over loads of money which a third world country is going to be saddled with repaying to rich pharmaseutical companies for a treatment which doesn't work. Then he just lies to the world saying they have reduced malaria by 98% in an area where malaria has increased.

In 2003 when America invaded Iraq Paul Wolfowitz was US Deputy Secretary of Defense to fellow Neocon Donald Rumsfeld, they ignored the experts a lot of people died and they told a lot of lies about it.

Ah right, I get the picture now.
The Neo-Cons are resorting to germ warfare. I suppose the Neo-cons have fallen out with the arms industry and have transferred allegiance to Glaxo Smith Klein.
At least they have become concerned about the earth's mineral resources.

I thought the Indians used products from the neem tree to fight malaria and have done for generations.

Iraq? Death toll? I've not come across any organisation which doesn't invent figures to suit it's own purpose.
If you listen to some groups there haven't been any Iraqis left to kill for over a year no!
Pick a figure, treble it and add 1257 so it looks like it's a genuine calculation.

[JAWS]

I have heard the name but can someone explain what a Neocon means????

It is the Neo-Militant (previously known as Marxist-Leninist, Trotskyist, Maoist etc.) term for those who were previously called Fascist Pigs, Capitalist Imperialist Warmongers, Neo-Colonialists, Cold War Warriors and many other meaningless supposed insults directed at those they didn't agree with.

They like to change the names occasionally to try to re-invent the Revolution and make the public believe it is something new.

Generally speaking they suffer from "Post Vietnam - Flower Power" syndrome discovered in the late 1960s.
It is symptomised by the repetitive screams of, "(Blanky, blanky, blanky!) OUT, OUT, OUT!" or "What do we want (Blank)! When do we want it? NOW!". You can fill in your own suitable “blank” to reflect whatever your particular demand is at the time. One piece of good advice gained from experience is never to demand anything solid and heavy as an immediate capitulation to your demand can prove painful!

Extreme cases of the problem are known to be prone to sudden outbursts of screaming, "Power to the People!" whilst throwing their right arm into the air in a manner similar to the Nazi Salute but with a clenched fist.

Unfortunately no known cure has been found but the effects have been known to lessen with time.

[George Brims]

Actually Fred the current bunch of loonies in the White House had eyes on Iraq before Shrub got elected, but I don't think they cared two hoots about Afghanistan since the Soviets were thrown out. Some people in the US tried to get some attention to the human rights issues when the Taliban were in power but to no avail. Recall that the Taliban were derived from the Mujahideen, who were quite glad of Western help when the Russians invaded, but apparently had absolutely no sense of gratitude. Likewise the neocons were totally ungrateful to said freedom fighters for helping bring about the downfall of the USSR by giving them their very own Vietnam.

[obiron]

cheers for the info fred and jaws.

[George Brims]

Here's an interesting take on the Neocons and their worldview, from Francis Fukuyama, noted right-wing writer. Those guys have gone so far off the deep end they have even alienated what passes for an intellectual on their own side of the aisle.

http://bloggingheads.tv/?id=81&cid=271&in=04:59

[fred]

Actually Fred the current bunch of loonies in the White House had eyes on Iraq before Shrub got elected, but I don't think they cared two hoots about Afghanistan since the Soviets were thrown out. Some people in the US tried to get some attention to the human rights issues when the Taliban were in power but to no avail. Recall that the Taliban were derived from the Mujahideen, who were quite glad of Western help when the Russians invaded, but apparently had absolutely no sense of gratitude. Likewise the neocons were totally ungrateful to said freedom fighters for helping bring about the downfall of the USSR by giving them their very own Vietnam.

George Bush Snr. called the Neocons "the crazies in the basement".

Neocons like Dick Cheney, who was CEO of Haliburton in the 90s had their eyes very much on Afghanistan, there was a lot of oil and gas in the Caspian and the only way to get it out was through Russia.

There were many Mujahideen groups fighting the Russians in Afghanistan backed by various different countries. After the fall of the Soviet Union they started fighting each other which is when the Taliban was formed, originally by arming religeous students to protect the ordinary people from the various warring factions. As they grew in popularity, more and more ordinary people wanted protecting, they recieved backing from Pakistan at first and Saudi Arabia later. Some of the formerly American backed Mujahdeen groups, like Al Qaeda did join forces with them.

A pipeline across Afghanistan was very important, not least to Enron who had built a power station in India which was producing electricity no one could afford, they needed a cheap supply of gas to fuel it to keep them from bankruptcy. America tried negotiating with the Taliban, in secret, they had never recognised them, the Taliban wouldn't be bribed. They wanted two things in return, one that America rebuilt Afghanistans battered infrastructure and the other that the pipeline fed gas to Afghanistan as well. America decided not to agree to these terms and tried threatening the Taliban instead, "we'll either carpet you in gold or carpet you in bombs", they said, the Taliban wouldn't be bullied either and pulled out of negotiations, that was in August 2001.

[fred]

It is the Neo-Militant (previously known as Marxist-Leninist, Trotskyist, Maoist etc.) term for those who were previously called Fascist Pigs, Capitalist Imperialist Warmongers, Neo-Colonialists, Cold War Warriors and many other meaningless supposed insults directed at those they didn't agree with.

They like to change the names occasionally to try to re-invent the Revolution and make the public believe it is something new.

Generally speaking they suffer from "Post Vietnam - Flower Power" syndrome discovered in the late 1960s.
It is symptomised by the repetitive screams of, "(Blanky, blanky, blanky!) OUT, OUT, OUT!" or "What do we want (Blank)! When do we want it? NOW!". You can fill in your own suitable “blank” to reflect whatever your particular demand is at the time. One piece of good advice gained from experience is never to demand anything solid and heavy as an immediate capitulation to your demand can prove painful!

Extreme cases of the problem are known to be prone to sudden outbursts of screaming, "Power to the People!" whilst throwing their right arm into the air in a manner similar to the Nazi Salute but with a clenched fist.

Unfortunately no known cure has been found but the effects have been known to lessen with time.

If you don't know why not just say you don't know?

[JAWS]

cheers for the info fred and jaws.

You're welcome obiron. My version, I will admit, is a little biased but fairly accurate.
One good piece of advice though, never ever trust my version of history.

[fred]

Here's an interesting take on the Neocons and their worldview, from Francis Fukuyama, noted right-wing writer. Those guys have gone so far off the deep end they have even alienated what passes for an intellectual on their own side of the aisle.

http://bloggingheads.tv/?id=81&cid=271&in=04:59

The Neocons see democracy as a tool to control the masses, keep them happy, let them think they have some say in their destiny.

And it's a cause they can get people to fight for. America has bombed 25 countries since WWII and not once did it result in a stable democracy but the people keep falling for it every time.

There is a book review which explains the Straussian view of democracy here:

http://www.swans.com/library/art11/mdolin10.html

[JAWS]

If you don't know why not just say you don't know?

Don't know? I've been hearing the same record played over and over again since I was at school.
I actually believed it once, but it only lasted about 12 months before the truth dawned on me.

Given the choice between the Cock-up and the Conspiracy I will choose the Cock-up as an explanation any day.
I would feel a lot safer if I could only believe that any of the World's leaders could arrange a Conspiracy.

If a tenth of the stories about the Neo-Cons of the Americans were viable propositions there could only be one of two reasons.
Either there is a group in the American Government comprising people of genius level or every Government and Institution in the World is run by gullible morons.

Which of the two am I to accept as correct?

Poor, impoverised, down-trodden India is currently involved with China and Japan preparing for a Moon Mission so they obviously don't consider Malaria to be a major priority for the benefit of their people.

[JAWS]

The Neocons see democracy as a tool to control the masses, keep them happy, let them think they have some say in their destiny.

And it's a cause they can get people to fight for. America has bombed 25 countries since WWII and not once did it result in a stable democracy but the people keep falling for it every time.

There is a book review which explains the Straussian view of democracy here:

http://www.swans.com/library/art11/mdolin10.html

Ah, so the Neo-cons are what I said earlier, they are the Neo-fascist-pigs.
I take it that they are intent on creating the Fourth Reich!

Now I really do understand. And I was always led to believe it was "Reds under the Bed."
I spent many years crawling round under beds and never did find any.

My mummy used to try and frighten me with the Bogey Man! I never found him either.

[fred]

I take it that they are intent on creating the Fourth Reich!

I'd say that just about sums it up.

Take a look at their own web site where they tell you what they intend to do and judge for yourself.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf

[JAWS]

I'd say that just about sums it up.

Take a look at their own web site where they tell you what they intend to do and judge for yourself.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf

Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Bush! No, it just doesn't have the same ring to it.

As far as the paper which the site refers to it seems to me that it is little more than a discussion document comprising ideas from a "Think Tank" (I believe that would be the term used here) and certainly not a stated policy.

I would be amazed if similar theorising does not go on in most countries. The only major difference is that in most countries that sort of document would never become public knowledge.

The whole thing seems to me to be a rather sensible exercise in considering problems which may, but not necessarily will, occur in the future.

I would suggest that it is nothing more than a warning not to fall into complacency and suggestions as to the best way to make use of defence spending.

At least they are not suggesting what some would suggest here, "Lets not waste money on that, nothing will ever ever happen!"