Very close accident.. Hempriggs

[Phill]

While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including ..............

Interesting! Since when has this been legislation and is it applicable across the whole of the UK?

[tonkatojo]

Tonkatojo: "Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways and honestly don't see your argument fire engine driver or not, I also have been almost hit by a fire engine more than once albeit the driver had an excuse but in the eyes of the law he hasn't as he should be driving the speed limit, and numerous crashes have resulted by fire engines with not only the cars involved losing their lives or pedestrians, as I'm sure you are aware of."

Hmm, I can just imagine it.. bells go down, 'Persons Reported' onto the machine, blokes get their gear on, test DSU's. Tonkatojo slips into drive, the engine surges forward.. first traffic light. Stops, waits till lights turn to green, continues on at 30 (Well it IS a 30 miles an hour zone).. Opps junction, waits whilst traffic has all passed.. slow car in front - doing 49 in 50 mph zone, can't overtake; will break speed limit. Great here's a road where 'National Speed Limit applies' foot down, and the 23 ft long 13 ton appliance surges forward with it's 6 cylinder, 250 BHP turbocharged diesel nudging [but not quite going through] the 60mph limit..
Eventually arrive at scene, never mind, they are all dead, burnt, crushed, fatal under vehicle.. whatever...

I see you've driven on Motorways at 70mph Tonkatojo.. bet you don't believe it but we are (I mean 'were' as I'm out) permitted to drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder of the motorway - oh what fun..

I must admit I remember driving down the M5 to an RTA - two lanes closed and in front was a car still driving along, and although I had two-tones and lights on.. this person would not pull into the many gaps in the line of traffic, it actually slowed down to 25 miles an hour, so I turned off the flashing lights and two-tones and immediately the car turned into a gap, we passed and could see it was a very old lady looking petrified, obviously the noise and lights confused the old dear!.. ah memories

Anyway a few regs below;
While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including

• treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
• passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
• driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)
• disobeying the speed limit (police, fire and ambulance services only)
• However, they are not allowed to
  
  • ignore a 'no entry' sign
  • ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
  • drive the wrong way down a one-way street
  • ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
  • cross a solid white line down the middle of the road*
  *except in the same circumstances as everyone else (for instance to pass a stationary vehicle, slow moving cyclist or horse, or a road maintenance vehicle). This can cause problems for emergency drivers when other road users slow to let them pass where road markings indicate no overtaking.
  
  Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey other signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver.
  http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Emergency_Vehicle_Definition

"if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion".

Yeah I believe it but where is the regulation that say's all drivers must drive to the national speed limit ??, and I suppose frightening an old dear as you put it boosts your macho image, I suppose the old dears on pedestrian crossings need to sprout wings as well, or the horse rider on country roads needs to get his mount to jump fences, or the bairns on their bikes learning to ride shouldn't be there, the list goes on. As well as your circumstances list justifies your actions.
In your capacity as one of emergency services, what's the ratio of accidents by drivers doing the maximum and the drivers doing 40mph, how many 40mph drivers loose control of their vehicles compared to your maximum limit drivers.
You might be surprised but most stations have traffic light that turn red to facing traffic to allow the emergency service out. Once out its up to the judgement of the driver not to cause even more accidents or deaths, sometimes even they fail in this because of bad judgement, even they are not perfect. But I doubt the macho image will see that. But I don't see the similarity of those circumstances to a ordinary car driver doing 40mph and the person behind late for whatever wanting the driver to increase their speed to suit.

[Leanne]

I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.

You have never had driving lessons? Are you road legal?

[Scorpio12thNov]

LeanneQuote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio12thNov
I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.

You have never had driving lessons? Are you road legal?

I da ken how my name is there coz i never wrote that!!! hhhmmm...im gettin set up again!!!

But aye, I hev had driving lessons. & I passed my theory/hazard perception 100% & i got one minor on ma practical...so nyiet til ye!!!!!!!

[Leanne]

LeanneQuote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio12thNov
I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.





I da ken how my name is there coz i never wrote that!!! hhhmmm...im gettin set up again!!!

But aye, I hev had driving lessons. & I passed my theory/hazard perception 100% & i got one minor on ma practical...so nyiet til ye!!!!!!!

How weird! It was Kevin Milikins - yet when I clicked quote it attributed it to you... There are bugs in the system... It's getting stranger by the day!

Edit - Kevin - have you??? lol

[Scorpio12thNov]

How weird! It was Kevin Milikins - yet when I clicked quote it attributed it to you... There are bugs in the system... It's getting stranger by the day!

Edit - Kevin - have you??? lol

Haha...Eh Org is oot til get me!

[bekisman]

Tonkatojo; "and I suppose frightening an old dear as you put it boosts your macho image" & "But I doubt the macho image will see that" What on earth on you on about Tonk? 'macho'? nah, what a silly thing to say, not macho at all, I said the noise and lights had confused the old dear - what's macho about that?

"You might be surprised but most stations have traffic light that turn red to facing traffic to allow the emergency service out" Surprised? why's that Tonk? of course they do, er, I think I mentioned I drove a Fire Appliance?

Anyway the initial poster was on about a driver dithering along at 40 on a straight road which had a 60 limit..

Keep smiling!

[Kevin Milkins]

How weird! It was Kevin Milikins - yet when I clicked quote it attributed it to you... There are bugs in the system... It's getting stranger by the day!

Edit - Kevin - have you??? lol

Yes, I had driving lessons before passing my test, first on a motor bike in 1973 and in a car in 1974. I used to do an average of forty thousand miles a year when I worked as a sales rep, and all without incident, so I think it is reasonable to suggest that I am a competent driver, (even if I do choose to drive slower than most).

[piratelassie]

Got stuck behind a driver doing 35mph this afternoon, and that is not saving petrol when I am forced down to third geer.If a person has not got the confidence to go any faster than that, they should'nt be on the road. OK, I here you say that they are paying there road tax, but is'nt it flustration that causes a lot of accidents......

[Scorpio12thNov]

Got stuck behind a driver doing 35mph this afternoon, and that is not saving petrol when I am forced down to third geer.If a person has not got the confidence to go any faster than that, they should'nt be on the road. OK, I here you say that they are paying there road tax, but is'nt it flustration that causes a lot of accidents......

Correct. Wastes fuel, & if they aren't confident enough til be on eh road ehn chuck them in eh dodgems or something...

[Vistravi]

Yeah I believe it but where is the regulation that say's all drivers must drive to the national speed limit ??, and I suppose frightening an old dear as you put it boosts your macho image, I suppose the old dears on pedestrian crossings need to sprout wings as well, or the horse rider on country roads needs to get his mount to jump fences, or the bairns on their bikes learning to ride shouldn't be there, the list goes on. As well as your circumstances list justifies your actions.
In your capacity as one of emergency services, what's the ratio of accidents by drivers doing the maximum and the drivers doing 40mph, how many 40mph drivers loose control of their vehicles compared to your maximum limit drivers.
You might be surprised but most stations have traffic light that turn red to facing traffic to allow the emergency service out. Once out its up to the judgement of the driver not to cause even more accidents or deaths, sometimes even they fail in this because of bad judgement, even they are not perfect. But I doubt the macho image will see that. But I don't see the similarity of those circumstances to a ordinary car driver doing 40mph and the person behind late for whatever wanting the driver to increase their speed to suit.

I'd rather bekisman scared a old dear than got at the scene of a accident/fire/car crash scene too late!

I have a healthy respect for the emergency service as does my partner. He drives out of the way straight away for them.

Is endearing to the speed limit more important than the emergency services getting to where they are needed to save a life?

[dx100uk]

Got stuck behind a driver doing 35mph this afternoon, and that is not saving petrol when I am forced down to third geer.If a person has not got the confidence to go any faster than that, they should'nt be on the road. OK, I here you say that they are paying there road tax, but is'nt it flustration that causes a lot of accidents......

its a speed limit not a target.

DX

[caithnesslad]

As irritating as it is the weather conditions of late haven't been the best... Caithnesslad - they could have slowed down because they were feeling intimidated by you driving too close behind them. It is something that I do if someone sits on my tail - I slow down. This allows them to overtake more easily and quickly (and within the speed limit) as I am less of a problem to overtake as I have slowed down. This is something I was taught on an advanced driving course. Another thing I was taught is that before going to overtake, peep out (without indicating or comitting to the manouver) with your car to check the coast is clear. Once you know the coast is clear, indicate and overtake.

For someone to have a near head on collision will only ever be their own fault as they are not practising safe overtaking techniques.

But I agree it is annoying sat behind a person doing 40... Just think yourself lucky you are in Caithness where there is little traffic and straights to overtake in. Where I used to live, the 12 mile trip into work only had two passing places that were enough to allow 2 cars to overtake. The volume of traffic meant that if you hit traffic lights you could be stuck behind 2 dozen cars and 3 changes of lights. If you want to experience true frustration try driving in a semirural area in the commuter belt. The traffic here is divine!

Edit - that 12 mile trip took 45 minutes...















And if it was rush hour - an hour and 40 minutes!!!!!

The 12 miles of Watten to Thurso takes 20 miutes tops even if stuck behind someone doing 40

For a start I was at the back of the que and the person holding us all up was six cars infront so was nothing to do with me but I was nearly in the back of a silver golf due to dangerous overtake/slow driver.

[Leanne]

For a start I was at the back of the que and the person holding us all up was six cars infront so was nothing to do with me but I was nearly in the back of a silver golf due to dangerous overtake/slow driver.

A whole 6 cars?!?! Positively rush hour

[tonkatojo]

For a start I was at the back of the que and the person holding us all up was six cars infront so was nothing to do with me but I was nearly in the back of a silver golf due to dangerous overtake/slow driver.

If you were nearly in the back of the car in front you were to close to it.

[Phill]

I'll get me 'andbag out and join the row.

Dangerous overtaking is exactly that and there is no excuse, ever.
Not knowing the road is no excuse, "knowing the road like the back of your hand" is no excuse either.
Treat every road as if your driving it for the first time.
Dangerous over taking because another car is slow moving is not an excuse.

Your licence is a privilege not a right.

If you want to drive 40 in a 60 when conditions are suitable for 60, fine, just do it with due care and consideration for other road users*. And allow overtaking.
Just because I may do 45 to overtake your 40 doesn't necessarily make me a raging speed demon loon with a death wish who is late for Hollyoaks or whatever.
I choose to drive at a speed I am comfortable with and is suitable for the vehicle, road, weather and general conditions at that time.

For those of you who wish to drive way below the speed limit when it is safe to drive at the limit, allow others to drive at the limit should they so wish.
On a similar note:
DO NOT EVER SPEED UP TO PREVENT THEM OVERTAKING YOU!
By doing this you are directly, and seriously contributing to a potential death!
(and in my eyes, this kind of driving ("policing"), is the worse type of driving and shows that these kind of people are intently and maliciously putting peoples lives in danger and should be treated as criminals.)


*"Driving a vehicle on a public road without consideration for other road users."
The mentality of not allowing people to overtake falls into the "without" section of this statement.
You don't have to pull over and stop, these people obviously are not in a rush so why is it so difficult to slow down a wee bit more on a clear straight section and allow all the crazy suicidal late for work petrolhead demons speed past at 50mph.

If I end up with 1 or 2 cars behind me due to my actions/speed I start to make considerations to allow them to pass.

Anyhow, it's the speed wanderers that cause the hold ups. 20 - 30 on wee bends, 45 - 55 on the straight, late and excessive braking in a bend.
Now there a rant for another thread

And why does X no' years of driving & no convictions / accidents count?
Surely currency of valid training is more appropriate.

[bekisman]

Tonkatojo; "Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways" hmm, just a thought, how come you were not driving at 40mph?, why were you doing the maximum speed limit? where you needing to get to your destination quickly?. Suppose just the same then as the one's behind you doing 40 who needed to get to their own 'destination quickly'..

As an aside, people generally seem to think a lot of elderly folk are slow/bad drivers - fair enough reactions do eventually deteriorate, but most usually you'll find a timid driver was always a timid driver, and a confident driver will remain a confident driver into old age. My wife (an old age pensioner) has always been a confident and proficient driver - anyone else driven around the Arc de Triumph, Place de la Concorde (what fun!) or from St Austell to Strathy (874 miles) in one stint ?

Drive safe, drive courteous, drive well; arrive alive...

[The Angel Of Death]

I have on occasion carried an antique or two that required great care and a steady slow pace.

Yea its called taking my granny out in the car however with enough bubble wrap and a brandy or two everything is good and i can still do 60

Remembers me as well coming home from thurso on monday afternoon and there was a police car going back to wick why does the sight of one cause everyone to slow down to 35 mph ? I mean fair enough stick to 50 or 60 but 35 thats taking the michael isnt it ?

[Phill]

there was a police car going back to wick why does the sight of one cause everyone to slow down to 35 mph ? I mean fair enough stick to 50 or 60 but 35 thats taking the michael isnt it ?

Ha ha! It's like the plod on the motorways, sitting in lane 1 doing 68mph and no one has the bottle to overtake.
Cue a careful overtake with gentle acceleration, soon back up to 120mph.



Joke, I don't drive at 120mph, 136 seems to be the limit unless I'm goin' down hill!!

[bish667]

This discussion is never going to come to an agreed compromise.

The only thing I would say is if driving at 40mph in a 60mph zone (with no weather conditions or heavy traffic) was acceptable then why would you fail a driving test for it?
I personally almost failed for driving at 28mph in a 30mph area as this is what I got 3 minor faults for and a fourth is a fail.