Very close accident.. Hempriggs

[caithnesslad]

Couldn't see how people doing 60 could be tearing anywhere in the first place, Bit off topic that anyway just wondered if anyone was going to own up for the dangerous overtake last night didn't want to go too political.

[tonkatojo]

Calm down, dear.

Someone travelling faster than you isn't necessarily a 'speed merchant'. Any more than anyone who travels at less than 60 is incompetent.

My comments regard sections of road where it is safe and clear to travel faster than the vehicle in front whilst staying within the limit. Simple.

The Police signs aren't put up for the benefit of 'Other' drivers or 'slow' vehicles, they are there to remind all drivers - regardless of the size of their vehicle - that they have a responsibility to other road users in as much that they must not hold people up unnecessarily.

An example of holding up unnecessarily would be on a clear A road where the lead driver is doing 40mph in a 60 zone and traffic is unable to overtake for long periods because of constant oncoming traffic. Or travelling down a single track road with laybys and refusing to pull over to allow traffic behind to clear.
Both tailbacks could be avoided by positive action by the lead driver, refusal to do so based upon the premise that 'You can't make me do it' would show an arrogance only matched by those who deliberately tailgate other drivers.

To quote you, Tonks : "Get real the road is for all, not to dictate your terms and conditions..."

That applies to people holding up the flow of traffic as much as it does to the 'speed merchants'.

Well done for not calling people arses who don't agree with your philosophy, and thanks for agreeing with me on the rest of your statement.
My 42 years experience has taught me to be tolerant and courteous to other road users hence my pulling over statement, but bullying doesn't wash with my temperament either, but once again if I want to do 40 on a 60 mph road I shall do if I can't pull over tough wait for an appropriate space and overtake me. Aye the road is for all to use in alignment with the highway code.

[bekisman]

40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.

These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?

We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!

Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)

[caithnesslad]

40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.

These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?

We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!

Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)

Well said, And there must have been about 7 cars behind the person sitting at 40, And the little straight after thrumster heading towards Wick there was nearly an accident happen there and then on hempriggs straight so safe to say if the person sitting at 40 wasn't there none of it would have happened.

[Boozeburglar]

Well what if it was a tractor doing 20???

The overtaking is either safe or not, there is no middle ground.

I don't see the confusion on that aspect of this.

[changilass]

Frustration is caused by prats who can but won't as opposed by folks that can't - tollerance is given to those who can't.

[Boozeburglar]

When it comes to driving on the public highway, you cannot vent your frustrations by undertaking dangerous manoeuvres.

In doing so, you render yourself the one who can but does not.

Patience is key to safe driving, and if you don't have that skill you should not be driving.

[changilass]

Whilst I agree that if you don't have some patience you shouldnae be driving, I also think that if you do not have consideration and cannot drive to the road conditions and speeds you also should not be driving.

[John Baikie]

As someone who travels a lot, I see both sides of this.

There are a huge number of inconsiderate drivers who will not pull over, no matter how long a line of traffic is behind them. Equally annoying are the idiots who feel that as they are at the back of a queue of 15 cars, when an opportunity arises to overtake they should go first, and then prevent the ones that have waited patiently for ages from getting past. The ones in front then have to brake to let them in. I've seen so many near things with this crazy practice.

No matter how slow the car in front is going however, there's no excuse for taking risks, either with your own life or the others on the road. In this case it seems it wasn't the slow driver who was at fault.

As an aside.....I often get annoyed with camper vans and caravans that won't pull over (apologies to all caravan owners - you are not all bad just a minority), yet when you're travelling home at night, where are they all?? Parked in a layby!! If only they could see these in daylight hours

[Scorpio12thNov]

I'm sorry, but if anyone is going til be crawling at 40mph, on a 60mph road, causing tailbacks, then it's inevitable that drivers are going to get wound up & take risks. Personally, I widna take a risk on these tight roads, but for somebody drivin these roads day in, day oot, then they may feel lek "Superman" & dart round tight corners & attempt frightenin overtakes...

If ye wana speed, go til a track, if ye wana crawl, go til a track. But for God sake these are PUBLIC roads people!!! It's actually illegal to drive that slow on a main road, if ye were til drive at 40 on a 60 limit in yer test, ye'd fail. I honestly believe people drive iss slow jus til piss other drivers off, & then complain as to how crazy other drivers are. Drive at the limit (or even close til it, 55 or somethin) & ye'll see less folk drivin lek muppets!

Is common sense too much til ask min?

[Boozeburglar]

Firstly, no one knows if that person driving was disabled in some way, or was carrying something fragile that caused them to be taking it canny. I have on occasion carried an antique or two that required great care and a steady slow pace.

It really does not matter what the reason was, the protocol is to follow safely at a distance awaiting a safe overtaking opportunity, and after all how much will it reall add to your journey at that point if you travel at 40 rather than 60?

Caithness is a rural location, and it should be expected on all journeys that you will encounter slow moving vehicles. There is no road in Caithness where 50 would be an unreasonable speed, so we are talking about only 10mph off that mark.

As for this particular incident, the person who overtook was either soon in Wick or soon near a safe overtaking point South, so there was NO excuse.

If they were heading to Wick, there is NO reason for overtaking at all. You are talking about a couple of miles, and what will that extra 20mph gain you? 1 minute.

If that happens to you say 10 times on a trip to Inverness then we are talking an additional 10 minutes on your journey.

My normal drive to Inverness is less that 1 hour 30 mins, so I am no slouch, and that includes sitting behind the occasional slow moving vehicle until there is a safe passing opportunity.

It should not matter what vehicle it is or why it is going slowly, you should adjust to it and learn to live with such things.

If you can't do that, chances are you will end up being delayed by much more than a few minutes next time.

[Boozeburglar]

Oh yeah, and while I am at it..

We ALL know that on most of the roads in the North we are relatively free of traffic, so there again is another reason there is NO excuse for being impatient.

Try driving in London, then you will relax a little more and realise how lucky you are!

If I set out to drive 10 miles in Caithness, more often than not it takes less than 10 minutes. There are very few other places like that left in the UK.

[George Brims]

As the late, great George Carlin used to say, have you noticed how everyone going slower than you is an idiot, and everyone going faster is a maniac?

[Leanne]

As irritating as it is the weather conditions of late haven't been the best... Caithnesslad - they could have slowed down because they were feeling intimidated by you driving too close behind them. It is something that I do if someone sits on my tail - I slow down. This allows them to overtake more easily and quickly (and within the speed limit) as I am less of a problem to overtake as I have slowed down. This is something I was taught on an advanced driving course. Another thing I was taught is that before going to overtake, peep out (without indicating or comitting to the manouver) with your car to check the coast is clear. Once you know the coast is clear, indicate and overtake.

For someone to have a near head on collision will only ever be their own fault as they are not practising safe overtaking techniques.

But I agree it is annoying sat behind a person doing 40... Just think yourself lucky you are in Caithness where there is little traffic and straights to overtake in. Where I used to live, the 12 mile trip into work only had two passing places that were enough to allow 2 cars to overtake. The volume of traffic meant that if you hit traffic lights you could be stuck behind 2 dozen cars and 3 changes of lights. If you want to experience true frustration try driving in a semirural area in the commuter belt. The traffic here is divine!

Edit - that 12 mile trip took 45 minutes...















And if it was rush hour - an hour and 40 minutes!!!!!

The 12 miles of Watten to Thurso takes 20 miutes tops even if stuck behind someone doing 40

[Scorpio12thNov]

Caithness is a rural location, and it should be expected on all journeys that you will encounter slow moving vehicles. There is no road in Caithness where 50 would be an unreasonable speed, so we are talking about only 10mph off that mark.

Aye yer right, 50 wouldn't be an unreasonable speed, but eh thread starter clearly stated that iss kiddie wis doin 40 on a 60 road.

Whether eh driver wis disabled or not, ye still cane be drivin iss slow on a main road min! Whether yer speedin wrecklessly, or frustratingly crawling, ones as bad as another as BOTH are illegal, BOTH will cause accidents. So why cant folk drive at the bloody limit???

I notice it's folk wi great beig fancy powerful cars that crawl, as if they own eh road with their great beig jet engined motors. While a wee biy racer wi their wee corsa is goin thrashin it aboot all oer eh road, coz eh auld kiddie in front keeps his foot on eh brake. So ironic, but yet so true...

[chiel]

40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.

These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?

We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!

Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)

yep, have to agree too,

[EDDIE]

I usually bumble along at about 40 miles an hour and if someone chooses to make an ill judged overtaking maneuver, then I would not consider it my fault if he ended up in the ditch.

But you have to remember if u bumble along at 40mph on a 60 mph road you would fail a driving test for that it shows your not confident or able to control a car at 60mph plus your also causing other drivers to alter there speed you shouldnt be on the road?
Have you ever thought about getting driving lessons to brush up on your skills.?

[tonkatojo]

40mph on a 60mph road which is straight? Huh?.. many times I've driven over the 'hump' from Inverness/Perth, nothing worse than some selfish sod bumbling along at 40 with a tailback of a dozen and more vehicles behind him, who can't overtake because of continuous on-coming traffic and who need to get from A-B at the permitted speed (some say a 'tearing speed') of 60mph.

These selfish arses totally ignoring, and grindingly moving past the huge signs FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS and the PULL OVER TO ALLOW VEHICLES BEHIND TO OVERTAKE.. are they blind?

We then get a series of near misses when a 'frustrated driver' pulls out and attempts to get past this ignorant git, who feels he has the right to impede following traffic, and thinks 'tough, they'll have to wait for a gap in on-coming traffic and then overtake me' what kind of person is that? OK we have drivers who have just passed their driving test, we have timid drivers, we have old farts, BUT why oh why don't they simple do as these massive signs say and allow people to overtake? the road is for ALL, not just the ignorant ones who hold people up..
This morning I drove up over Drum Hollistan- - the hill between Melvich and Reay, in front was a Skoda Fabia which was driving at about 30mph, fair enough, the road is very winding, until it gets to the top where it straightens out. The old boy who was driving then indicates with his left indicator, slows down and allows me to overtake.. I gave him a wave and a couple flicks of the indicator to say 'many thanks'.. see, my point is, he was old, probable grew up in the Northern Highlands and has always driven slowly, but was a courteous driver..
We often hear 'been driving for umpteen years, and 'never had a driving conviction or an accident', but given the scenario above on the A9 there's many a slow drivers who's caused one!

Rant over
Yours
ex-West Mids Fire Engine driver for 11 years and 40 years driving experience oh, and never had an accident or conviction (and hopefully not caused one!)

Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways and honestly don't see your argument fire engine driver or not, I also have been almost hit by a fire engine more than once albeit the driver had an excuse but in the eyes of the law he hasn't as he should be driving the speed limit, and numerous crashes have resulted by fire engines with not only the cars involved losing their lives or pedestrians, as I'm sure you are aware of. Why is someone selfish if they want to travel at a slower speed to you. I too allow folk to overtake but where its not possible to pull in once again tough, wait for an appropriate place and overtake, as you said the road is for all not only the ones that want to travel at more than 40mph. If you feel that strongly report the driver to the police and see what their reply will be. The highway code is for all and should be adhered to by all, not interpreted as and when it suits.
You can't blame other drivers for your frustration, It is hardly their fault you have to drive at the limit to reach your destination on time. How can a driver have caused umpteen accidents if he is not in fault according to the highway code ?, no where in the book does it say anyone must drive to the limit, unless it's changed.
Oh and well done for your driving record.

[bekisman]

Tonkatojo: "Well this is one person that has experience of driving in most conditions including 70mph on motorways and honestly don't see your argument fire engine driver or not, I also have been almost hit by a fire engine more than once albeit the driver had an excuse but in the eyes of the law he hasn't as he should be driving the speed limit, and numerous crashes have resulted by fire engines with not only the cars involved losing their lives or pedestrians, as I'm sure you are aware of."

Hmm, I can just imagine it.. bells go down, 'Persons Reported' onto the machine, blokes get their gear on, test DSU's. Tonkatojo slips into drive, the engine surges forward.. first traffic light. Stops, waits till lights turn to green, continues on at 30 (Well it IS a 30 miles an hour zone).. Opps junction, waits whilst traffic has all passed.. slow car in front - doing 49 in 50 mph zone, can't overtake; will break speed limit. Great here's a road where 'National Speed Limit applies' foot down, and the 23 ft long 13 ton appliance surges forward with it's 6 cylinder, 250 BHP turbocharged diesel nudging [but not quite going through] the 60mph limit..
Eventually arrive at scene, never mind, they are all dead, burnt, crushed, fatal under vehicle.. whatever...

I see you've driven on Motorways at 70mph Tonkatojo.. bet you don't believe it but we are (I mean 'were' as I'm out) permitted to drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder of the motorway - oh what fun..

I must admit I remember driving down the M5 to an RTA - two lanes closed and in front was a car still driving along, and although I had two-tones and lights on.. this person would not pull into the many gaps in the line of traffic, it actually slowed down to 25 miles an hour, so I turned off the flashing lights and two-tones and immediately the car turned into a gap, we passed and could see it was a very old lady looking petrified, obviously the noise and lights confused the old dear!.. ah memories

Anyway a few regs below;
While using blue lights, drivers are exempt from a number of motoring regulations, including

• treating a red traffic light as a give way sign
• passing to the wrong side of a keep left bollard
• driving on a motorway hard shoulder (even against the direction of traffic)
• disobeying the speed limit (police, fire and ambulance services only)
• However, they are not allowed to
  
  • ignore a 'no entry' sign
  • ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
  • drive the wrong way down a one-way street
  • ignore flashing signs at level crossings or fire stations
  • cross a solid white line down the middle of the road*
  *except in the same circumstances as everyone else (for instance to pass a stationary vehicle, slow moving cyclist or horse, or a road maintenance vehicle). This can cause problems for emergency drivers when other road users slow to let them pass where road markings indicate no overtaking.
  
  Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey other signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver.
  http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/information/bluelightuse.htm#Emergency_Vehicle_Definition

"if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion".

[Kevin Milkins]

But you have to remember if u bumble along at 40mph on a 60 mph road you would fail a driving test for that it shows your not confident or able to control a car at 60mph plus your also causing other drivers to alter there speed you shouldnt be on the road?
Have you ever thought about getting driving lessons to brush up on your skills.?

I don't recall saying that I drive everywhere at all times at 40 mph, it just seems to me a comfortable speed to drive at on the roads in this area as I am not usually in a rush.

I said that I drive at a speed that I feel comfortable with and will not be intimidated by someone tailgating me, and although 40 is my chosen speed, if there is traffic behind me I will increase my speed to what I am comfortable with (and the road to Trumpster would be 60mph) and I will pull over as soon as it is safe and practical to do so for traffic to pass.

I agree that it can be frustrating to sit behind someone driving at an unnecessary slow speed (just to wind people up) and it is not something that I would consider doing, however, I will not allow myself to be bullied in any shape or form.

I have not considered getting driving lessons (yet), because I don't think I cause anyone inconvenience or do I represent a danger to other road user's, but you can be assured, if I did, I would.