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Thread: What's the point?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    Not everyone has the time or money to study.

    I know what you're saying but achieving professional qualifications is not a realistic option for many people.
    Quite frankly that is a cop out, I've met busy people with busy lives and they still manage to make time rather than find the time to study.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Quite frankly that is a cop out, I've met busy people with busy lives and they still manage to make time rather than find the time to study.
    It can cost a great deal of money to study, which some people simply cannot afford. There is some funding available, but it is minimal and is usually income based, so many people do not qualify.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Easy answer to that one, get yourself a higher education if you think you can do a good job, there's no point in fighting the system or you'll be a long time retired thinking what you could have made of yourself if you just made the effort... And there are plenty ways to get educated. No employer will look at anyone who can't prove themselves have acheived a certain level of academic ability. No offence but your posts come across as reverse snobbery tbh.

    I was not academically qualified and I just took the decision to get educated through the OU because I was sick of vocational work and once I did then doors started to open up.
    Good for you and I really mean that. And the reverse snobbery part, I can see that too (although I'm trying to stir it a bit).
    However, much as I wish everyone to make as much of themselves as they can, if everyone wishes to escape vocational work and gain academic quals, (a) who will fix the plumbing? (b) How can we afford to educate everyone (c) who will be in charge (d) how will we afford to pay the cleaners?
    Education - makes everything better doesn't it. However, if it's that good, how come our country (run by smarties) is in the cack?
    Working On Behalf Of The Community!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    It can cost a great deal of money to study, which some people simply cannot afford. There is some funding available, but it is minimal and is usually income based, so many people do not qualify.
    Wealth is never a barrier to education as there are concessional rates to those hard up.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joxville View Post
    It's just galling that he'll learn how the depot works from me and others, rather than start at the bottom and work his way up.
    Oh boy.
    I know exactly what that feels like.
    And the possibility that the 'new' person may be a better manager - yea - better at managing to pick our brains - and yes, we end up nursemaiding him through, so he won't fall flat on his stupid face - we can't help being helpful.
    He'll move on before he's found out - 2 years, 3 at the most. Unfortunately, his wallet will be fatter.

  6. #26
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    Thats just so unfair but unfortunatly experience counts for nothing.

    Big companies tend to go for that piece of paper and forget about the excisting employees that have spent a great deal of time and effort getting it right.
    You've done your best just remember that, but be very carefull that the new boss just doesnt have the experience for the job and picks your brains or belittles you as he sees you as a threat.

    Maybe its time to move on or start on your own.
    Never judge someone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins.

    Native American Indian saying.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Banks View Post
    Oh boy.
    I know exactly what that feels like.
    And the possibility that the 'new' person may be a better manager - yea - better at managing to pick our brains - and yes, we end up nursemaiding him through, so he won't fall flat on his stupid face - we can't help being helpful.
    He'll move on before he's found out - 2 years, 3 at the most. Unfortunately, his wallet will be fatter.
    Yes david we too have experienced this and have come to the conclusion some companies promote their "mistakes" as they havent a clue what to do with them.
    Usually there,s a trail of very unhappy employees left behind because of the misery an unexperienced individual can cause.
    Never judge someone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins.

    Native American Indian saying.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    It can cost a great deal of money to study, which some people simply cannot afford. There is some funding available, but it is minimal and is usually income based, so many people do not qualify.

    If ye want the goal ye'll make it ,,if yer determined enough!
    Just wanting promotion isn't enough...the management watch up an coming professionals to see how they deal with letdowns.
    This says allot about pushing to achieve when possibly they're not ready..
    Realisation is what is paramount here,and yer place in the company.its well known this...but i guess there's allot they don't teach in Uni that is real in real life!!!
    Just think how some are feeling reading these posts when professionals whine about their position in life,,oh woe is me...my my my ..
    If yer suitable then ye'll achieve ,if not ye wont,,,job done...from the employers point of view..plain an simple..no need for poor little me syndrome.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
    Lister - Tchyoub?
    Calling me a Tchyoub eh..
    when ye write a poem Tchoyoubthumper ye need flair an insight an talent which ye have none of by yer post little girl..scorned are ye oh dear me yer lack of elloquence in this reply stands as who ye are .
    If ye could write a poem of decent narrative i might have altered my thoughts but No ye cannae!!
    Life ......ye need to understand it more to write true poetry...

  10. #30
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    Jox, Subterfuge and sabotage can work wonders. Set the guy up for a big fall and make sure your the one to save the day and let all the management know about it!

    Seriously, it is a piddler when this sort of thing happens. But do "management" know your ambitions?
    Have you thought about changing depots?
    Often if your sat waiting for opportunity in one place it rarely comes, but move about a bit and find the opportunities.

    And, have you got the bigger picture? Is it job's for the boys, promotion through incompetence, redeployment etc. etc.

    It's a very difficult job market right now so you need to think hard, but jumping ship is often the way ahead. Go for a better job with a different company.....find your promotion.

    I was getting shafted by a company I was working for so I gave them 2 fingers and took a job elsewhere. It was a step backwards position wise but it made me stand out and in no time I dragged mesel up the ladder a bit.
    Couple of years later the original company was screaming for me to go back and I had the upper hand at the negotiating table.

    And management isn't always it's cracked up to be, more responsibility, more people to answer too, bigger butt kickings, aggro' from the above and below!
    And sometimes these "handsome" salaries don't work out to the hours. When I went back to above mentioned co' I had a "nice" salary but hour per hour I earned less than the labourers on the site.

  11. #31

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    I do not think there is anything you can do unfortunately, but companies find out if their graduate is up to the job or not. And from experience, engineers have great qualifications but no common sense at times, so hold on to the that thought. Your experience is much better than his, and this for me is what counts, and you know the work inside out. You never know what the future may bring.

  12. #32
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    Jox, I'm afraid that if you stay in the same job for too long, you can easily become taken for granted and management start thinking of you as a trusty, dependable workhorse. It comes down to the 'don't work hard, work smart' thing.

    I've been in that situation (despite having a degree! ) as is my younger daughter right now (and yes, she has a degree too). You really need to either discuss your career aspirations within the company with your manager or HR department and find out if there is perhaps training that will increase what they see as your value to them. Sometimes companies will pay for it all, sometimes they will share the cost with you. In any case, it's worth showing them that you want to progress your career, or else they will just see you as someone who does his job well and they will be more than happy to have you remain in that same job.

    Failing that, it does pay to move around a bit, and from a position of strength -i.e. when you have a job, not when you're unemployed. Extra training and/or qualifications and showing that you are being proactive about improving your skills will make you more attractive to other potential employers as well.

    I must say that over the years I've found self employment the only way to ensure that my boss really appreciates my efforts so that might be something for you to bear in mind perhaps?

    Don't expect it to be 'fair' -life isn't, usually -you need to be much more cunning!
    Last edited by Angela; 09-Dec-09 at 22:08. Reason: added a word

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lister View Post
    Calling me a Tchyoub eh..
    when ye write a poem Tchoyoubthumper ye need flair an insight an talent which ye have none of by yer post little girl..scorned are ye oh dear me yer lack of elloquence in this reply stands as who ye are .
    If ye could write a poem of decent narrative i might have altered my thoughts but No ye cannae!!
    Life ......ye need to understand it more to write true poetry...
    Whoops, seem to have touched a raw nerve there!
    Thanks for the critique. 'twasn't meant to be poetry really, just a jolly ditty to lighten the day of someone feeling a bit low. Surprised someone with your depth of life experience wasn't more sympathetic.
    Yes, an understanding of life is needed for good poetry. How about sending some of yours in, stick it on the Literature board?
    But let's not fall out over a silly community website, eh?
    Working On Behalf Of The Community!

  14. #34
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    What you need to get is the job description of the post you want and compare it to the post you have (if there is a scoring system for the post like there is in the NHS that can be beneficial too). Pick out major points that can be of relelvance and work towards those. Don't specifically put yourself out to stay late, start early as although that is appreciated it doesn't get you promotional points - you make yourself indispensible so they can't afford to promote you (after all they would need to employ a person and a half to do the work you have been doing).

    Make sure you keep a diary of what you have done (a Continued Proffessional Development portfolio) so that you can refer your employer to examples of how you have achieved above and beyond your role (but within your remit). Keep examples of how you have dealt with problems, how you have managed people, how you have managed yourself, how you have managed time, requisitioning and finance if you can get a finger in, development of the department, innovation. Be creative! And then reflect the pieces of evidence back against the job description of the post you want.

    One thing to remember is most posts say "educated to degree level, or equivalent experience". Get the experience - put yourself forwards.

    Brown nosing is also a great way of getting on. Not in a creepy way of course... Go to your new boss and explain that you are trying to get ahead with your career and ask them if they will mentor you. They may not exactly be able to teach you much but the very fact that what they have taught you (which of course you already know ) is down on paper shows that you are serious. It also works wonders for office morale as they feel included too But if they feel accepted they are also more likely to put you forwards for training or short courses.

    I'm a prime example of someone who has got to where I am by pushing myself. I had to completely retrain about 2 years ago because my job changed. I was at the point of thinking about going further but that got put to a stop. I hadn;t got my masters degree so couldn't apply for posts higher graded... i got a new job and in my new post I sat quietly for a few months and then started putting myself forwards for more difficult work - there was no way I was getting into that situation again. After another 6 months I got put forward for a quality managers post - I didn't get it but the manager higher than the manager who put me forward put me forward for a national vocational management course. There were two places for the whole of NW England and I came 3rd. But I could put it on my CV! I pushed to start my masters degree through work - I ended up having to pay half (£1000 per year - 3 year degree part time). I couldn't afford this but I thought I would just cut out all my pleasures for a year! After a year I started applying for managment posts quoting "equivalent experience" and that I was prepared to work towards the degree. I got the job here in Wick! They asked if I wanted to continue my degree and I replied that I wasn't that fussed so I just took away the knowledge from the first year but no paper...

    I love my job and am so glad that I brown nosed and was skint for a year as the cash now is very much appreciated!!! I love the lifestyle, the area, the countryside, the people, my colleagues, the work - absolutely everything!

    My situation proves that you can achieve things above the glass ceiling as long as you are canny about it...

    Oh one more additional point to think about is that they also are looking for broad experience - if you have been in your job longer than 5 years then you may be limiting yourself. They say that to gain enough experience to take away experience of value, but not enough that you start becoming 'fixtures and fittings', is between 3 and 5 years. Leave it longer than that and you are seen as someone happy with their position in life and not seriously wanting to progress. Prove them wrong!!!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
    Good for you and I really mean that. And the reverse snobbery part, I can see that too (although I'm trying to stir it a bit).
    However, much as I wish everyone to make as much of themselves as they can, if everyone wishes to escape vocational work and gain academic quals, (a) who will fix the plumbing? (b) How can we afford to educate everyone (c) who will be in charge (d) how will we afford to pay the cleaners?
    Education - makes everything better doesn't it. However, if it's that good, how come our country (run by smarties) is in the cack?
    You've made a very good point thete, Tubs.

    For many years now the Edjercashun system has been selling the myth that University and degree study is the only way forward and all else is 'below' anyone with ambition and drive. Anyone partaking in vocational training or wishing to learn a traditional trade has been sidelined for too long. Presumably because the idiotic 'system' that we live in has decreed that we will all work in media, social services or hospitality. And everyone will be a MD or a CEO.....

    Anything looking vaguely technical or requiring a scientific approach will be done by 'someone else'. Not us Brits - all that stuff is beneath us now, we have degrees in Humanity Studies and Modern Art, dontcha know!

    The result? Swathes of disillusioned young people on the scrapheap clutching a worthless degree.

    Shoulda done the sparkies or the plumbers course......

  16. #36

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    If the new guy is useless at his job im sure he will be found out in due course.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeko View Post
    If the new guy is useless at his job im sure he will be found out in due course.
    And promoted to area manager!

  18. #38
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    That's rubbish new Jox.
    If the job was based on one's humour - you would get the post hands down
    I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore

  19. #39
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    in this economy its more worrying the amount of people that are out of work never mind getting a promotion

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
    It's what you are that counts, not what certificates you have!
    I'm pretty sure if you come out of university with a post graduate degree then you ARE probably a hard working young chap and suitable for the job in question.

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