Wind farm news

[Rheghead]

Yes Jaws, but the same could be said when the pen pushers and accountants want a nuclear repositary to make a nice little backdrop to the Shebster windfarm. Only this time, the Shebsterites (or some of them) will welcome it with open arms with the sanction of every current and former Dounreay worker who is still blinded by the Dounreay 'goodtimes' of the 1960s and 1970s.

My point being, if folk want to object to the issue of windfarms then speak/object to them in real terms, not in terms of splitting or setting communities against eachother, divide and conquer has always been Scotland's downfall in the face of issues on a grander scale, hasn't it?

[Errogie]

I think the nagging doubt many of have about the direction of the Governments push for green energy is their breathtaking incompetence on so many other fronts, I mean how can you trust an outfit that can't even organise a dental service?

Caithness and the Highlands have been the recipient of too many bad ideas which seemed the right thing at the time. The failed Alltnabreac peat powered station in the 50's, the failed tax break forestry plantations, poll tax, and I suppose you have to mention Dounereay and why ever we're in Iraq.

Global warming hasn't arrived overnight, its been cooking for 200 years or more. We can probably wait a few more years to improve the alternative technologies of wave and sun, but of course wind offers a quick solution now and when it fails to make sufficient difference the Government can turn round and say, well, we gave it a good shot let's get on with the nuclear alternative.

I also don't like the way that we are mining and shipping out our raw resource (wind) yet again when we should be adding value and jobs by turning it into some other product such as hydrogen fuel or another manufacturing process.

[mareng]

Oh they look pretty so they must be good for the environment -



Thats just for the bases - what about the energy used to actually produce the steel to make them?............

Err - do you think you are going to make much energy from rubbing two organic sticks together? Every power station, hydro-dam, wave-energy turbine requires a bit of construction (meaning use of steel, concrete, ....... resources!)

Tell you what .......... Get rid of your car/TV/computer (the list goes on) and then take that line. Until such time ------ Get real!

As for the "looking pretty" - read my comment in the context it was obviously meant - I do not think they are an eyesore, I also think that they do not harm the environment. They are two entirely separate sentiments.

Have a nice day now.

[JAWS]

Yes Jaws, but the same could be said when the pen pushers and accountants want a nuclear repositary to make a nice little backdrop to the Shebster windfarm. Only this time, the Shebsterites (or some of them) will welcome it with open arms with the sanction of every current and former Dounreay worker who is still blinded by the Dounreay 'goodtimes' of the 1960s and 1970s.

My point being, if folk want to object to the issue of Windfarms then speak/object to them in real terms, not in terms of splitting or setting communities against each other, divide and conquer has always been Scotland's downfall in the face of issues on a grander scale, hasn't it?

Well the nearest I have been to Dounreay is by having driven past the gates a few times so there is no financial interest or rose-tinted memories of any "good times" from it any more than I have of any other method of producing Electricity.
But for one small community to say to another, "We are not having our area spoiled but we are going to spoil yours for our benefit whether you like it or not!" is not the work of some devious sneaky pen-pusher or accountant, it is one community riding roughshod over another by saying, "We're going to do it whether you like it or not!" That is simply the tactics used by the bully and the Dictator.
The same goes for an individual doing the same thing.

How many people would be a little unhappy if I got some Company to give me a lot of money so they could build an old fashioned Coal Fired Power Station belching out black smoke all over Caithness? Would the people who objected to that be the same as those objecting to Shebster?
I could have a couple of chimney stacks a hundred meters high or so to prevent the smoke actually getting low enough to affect anybody.

My point is that there seems to be some problem here, not about wind-farms and Shebster but simply an anti-nuclear, anti-Dounreay impression being promoted. The problem is not that the people of Shebster, or Shebsterites, don't want a Wind Power Station but that they might just accept, horror of horrors, a nuclear repository and that if they do they will become the Devil Incarnate set on the destruction of everybody in Caithness.
Your objections to that are no less emotive than those of the Shebsterites towards a Wind Industry site.

[Rheghead]

It just seems that people don't like the change until it arrives, it gets built, time goes by, they get used to the change, it grows on them, they accept it, then they eventually get to like the change. Dounreay and bright red phone boxes are a good example of this. Same will happen to windfarms or the repository when it arrives.

In 50 years time, when nuclear fusion may make windfarms redundant, I can see Causeymire being preserved as a national monument.

I just hope the founding fathers of CWIF were able to see it happen!

[JAWS]

It just seems that people don't like the change until it arrives, it gets built, time goes by, they get used to the change, it grows on them, they accept it, then they eventually get to like the change. Dounreay and bright red phone boxes are a good example of this. Same will happen to windfarms or the repository when it arrives.

In 50 years time, when nuclear fusion may make windfarms redundant, I can see Causeymire being preserved as a national monument.

I just hope the founding fathers of CWIF were able to see it happen!

Providing the Wind Farm is kept because it is the only one in the country then that would be fair enough. Seeing it is intended to cover the Country from end to end with them it would be like preserving fence posts for posterity.

[Rheghead]

it would be like preserving fence posts for posterity.

I believe there is a museum in Texas dedicated to barbed wire, so I don't rule anything out.

[ywindy]

"Community Wind farms should be sited in or near the community proposing it, then they can experience all the benefits/effects of their wind farm!!!!!"


Caithness Windfarm Information Forum urged Highland Councillors to amend their Renewable Energy Strategy to include the following:

"No windfarm development for the benefit of one community will be permitted if it has a detrimental effect on another community."


Too sensible I'm afraid. Not a flicker.

ywindy

[ywindy]

It just seems that people don't like the change until it arrives, it gets built, time goes by, they get used to the change, it grows on them, they accept it, then they eventually get to like the change. Dounreay and bright red phone boxes are a good example of this. Same will happen to windfarms or the repository when it arrives.

In 50 years time, when nuclear fusion may make windfarms redundant, I can see Causeymire being preserved as a national monument.

I just hope the founding fathers of CWIF were able to see it happen!

At least one founding father of the Causewaymire Wind farm now lives well out of sight just north of Edinburgh.
ywindy

[mareng]

I've always felt that there is a deepseated resentment by some members of communities (and no - no-one on this thread appears to have displayed it - but I offer it for consideration) to projects like wind turbines on the subconcious basis that someone is making money out of "nothing".

By this I mean that the wind is freely available, and for someone to come along and erect a turbine, thereby appearing to get something for nothing - can irk some people. What they don't see is the development, construction and maintenance costs of the project.

I feel that some objections are based on that reason alone, but depicted as a complaint against a "visual eyesore"

Mmmmm.....

[gcm]

Which would you prefer to see, and which will have the lesser long term environmental effect?



or

[MadPict]

If you're going to quote me at least get it in context.

I don't think even that would be much of a challenge for Alan Tichmarsh.

On the scale of things, I don't think a few small areas of concrete that would soon grow over - is much to complain about.

There are no miracles in energy production, only compromises. Wind turbines seem a sensible compromise to me.

Oh they look pretty so they must be good for the environment -

Quote:
Energy consumption is the biggest environmental concern with cement and concrete production. Cement production is one of the most energy intensive of all industrial manufacturing processes. Including direct fuel use for mining and transporting raw materials, cement production takes about six million Btus for every ton of cement...


Thats just for the bases - what about the energy used to actually produce the steel to make them?...........

The point I was making was that creating your "few small areas of concrete" has probably wiped out any reductions in carbon emissions for each wind turbine for a good part of its first months/years of use.

The wind turbine companies will have you believe that they are the answer to the energy problems in the UK. They are not. They might make a very small dent in the problem but the only people benefitting from their erection are the companies/landowners involved.

Tell you what .......... Get rid of your car/TV/computer (the list goes on) and then take that line. Until such time ------ Get real!

Have a nice day now.

How do you know I do not generate my own electricity, cycle or use public transport, recycle everything, use water saving devices. Until you do, don't harangue me...

Now, I have to go and clean the solar panels, so a nice day I will be having....

P.S. If you had followed any of my arguments in threads about windfarms you'll see I am an advocate of Offshore windfarms - I just think that the little wilderness we have left in this country should not be an excuse for companies to stick up 100's of 300 foot tall whirling devices...