Originally Posted by northener
Superb find
Yes
No
1K.Orger
This will settle all arguments about evolution versus creation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P591Y...F8CC5D7E2A5011
.Orger
Superb find
1K.Orger
I love Christianty for its broad church. You get the fundamentalists like Stavro on one side and the liberals (well, relatively) like badger on the other side. Badger's post uses a lot of words to say such a lot about nothing, or is it nothing about such a lot? I'm not sure.
I believe in Nature. I don't know where Nature comes from or why we are here, but She is beautiful and I try to understand Her and take care of Her as best I can.
1K.Orger
Heres an evolutionist YouTube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/DonExodus2 might be a bit easier than relatively dry technical discussions.
1K.Orger
I believe in nature as well, my family are Quakers they believe in nature, I just think I am a Quaker who doesn't think God is worthwhile thinking about.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
1K.Orger
Argh come on, I was happy the thread had died gracefully. BTW thats circular reasoning but even if it wasn't its not lateral thinking. If we can conclusively prove a god then we ask that question.That's an easy question to answer.....
An omnipotent God could create himself. Honestly, there's a distinct lack of lateral thinking going on around here.
Belief in nature is another example of deism also.
EDIT: Also omnipotence and omniscience actually cancel each other out.
Last edited by RecQuery; 14-Nov-09 at 00:07.
1K.Orger
I went to a Quaker meeting once. Nothing happened.I believe in nature as well, my family are Quakers they believe in nature, I just think I am a Quaker who doesn't think God is worthwhile thinking about.
1K.Orger
Ha, that's a typical scientist's lack of imagination and even worse a total inability to think outside the box of classical Greek causality.
1K.Orger
Maybe we are are as one but don't realise?I went to a Quaker meeting once. Nothing happened.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
1K.Orger
Good grief man, I was almost impressed by your posts until you wrote that.
1K.Orger
Very little dies gracefully on the Caithness dot Org forums. The polls are usually skewed too.
1K.Orger
Its more a just for fun thing, but I suppose its more correct to say he can't be both:Good grief man, I was almost impressed by your posts until you wrote that.
Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?
If a hypothetical god knows everything about the universe that will ever happen, then he also knows ahead of time when he will change that universe in some way to make something else happen. After all, he knows everything that will ever happen in that universe. But if he knows ahead of time (which is the definition of omniscient) everything that will happen in that universe, then he is really powerless to do anything new since, by definition, something new is something he didn't know ahead of time. Therefore, he isn't omnipotent, i.e., he can't do anything new. If he did, he wouldn't be omniscient.
He can't be both omnipotent and omniscient with respect to the universe he is controlling. He can be one or the other, but not both. He can change the universe but if he does, he introduces an outcome he can't know about until after it happens.
1K.Orger
A truly omnipotent God can temporarily suspend his omniscience. The converse must also be true. A true God can do both at once and at the same time create a logic system which avoids all paradoxes that mere Orgers deem problematic.
1K.Orger
More in the Humanist camp then, Rheggers?.... I just think I am a Quaker who doesn't think God is worthwhile thinking about.
Banned
God does not know everything that will ever happen, otherwise there would be no free will and there would be no point to anything. This silly idea just makes God into some kind of scapegoat. To rightfully claim that God knows the ultimate outcome of the universe is not the same as your assumption. Your salvation is down to you, not to some blueprint that was laid down before Creation began.
This thread has certainly deteriorated during my brief absence.
1K.Orger
So you are saying that God (taken that he exists as a single entity) is not omniscient?God does not know everything that will ever happen, otherwise there would be no free will and there would be no point to anything. This silly idea just makes God into some kind of scapegoat. To rightfully claim that God knows the ultimate outcome of the universe is not the same as your assumption. Your salvation is down to you, not to some blueprint that was laid down before Creation began.
.
Regarding salvation and pre-determinism (and I know this is drifting into religion as opposed to the existance of God):
Who is to say that the Islamic premise that all things are already known to God, or that the belief of the C16th and C17th Calvinistic Christian Elect in a predetermined path for the Chosen, is incorrect?
Last edited by northener; 14-Nov-09 at 12:41. Reason: spelung
1K.Orger
Why do you think free will and a deterministic universe are mutually incompatible? God ultimately determines which path we take.God does not know everything that will ever happen, otherwise there would be no free will and there would be no point to anything. This silly idea just makes God into some kind of scapegoat. To rightfully claim that God knows the ultimate outcome of the universe is not the same as your assumption. Your salvation is down to you, not to some blueprint that was laid down before Creation began.
This thread has certainly deteriorated during my brief absence.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
1K.Orger
Do you believe in a God?
This has become a controversial question. This video presents a good arguement for believing in a Creator, but it will not satisfy everyone. I am 84 years of age and I have watched a believing world change into an unbelieving world. I was raised as a Christian and even though I slipped away from my Christian beliefs during WW2, an event that nearly took my life during a battle caused me to have a vision and brought me back to the fact that I am a sinner and needed my salvation. I will not apologise to unbelievers, but I believe there will be a time when we will have to face up to the Creator who created me and the world in which I live. I wish to be prepared for that time.
1K.Orger
On the contrary, it has moved on from old and mostly misunderstood arguments for and against religious didacticism towards broader philosophical issues of the true nature of gods.God does not know everything that will ever happen, otherwise there would be no free will and there would be no point to anything. This silly idea just makes God into some kind of scapegoat. To rightfully claim that God knows the ultimate outcome of the universe is not the same as your assumption. Your salvation is down to you, not to some blueprint that was laid down before Creation began.
This thread has certainly deteriorated during my brief absence.
Oops.
1K.Orger
Both are valid and worthy of consideration, but I'd argue the philosophical and metaphysical arguments are old compared to the others, a few of my sources were from recent studies proving, confirming and expanding stuff we didn't know before.
Yes it wasn't accessible and the general public wouldn't understand it but thats part of the problem.
I suppose I should of began this argument by asking those that believe and especially the creationists.
Is there anything I can say, any proof I can provide, any experiment I can run, anything at all I can provide you with that would making you stop believing in god or start believing in evolution?
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks