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Thread: Gaelic Road-signs

  1. #21
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    So Abewsed, you acknowledge that Gaelic was actually widely spoken in our county and all those Gaelic immigrants are part of our rich heritage? The term 'Gaelic Community' or 'Norse Community' is a contrived description that assumes whatever is in the majority, that be as maybe as I'm not disputing that fact, but it certainly doesn't describe a community in which a minority language is widely spoken. You just need to go that one step further to realise that gaelic has got as much a right to be promoted in the county as English.

    We see that Gaelic has had its twists and turns of success throughout history, history may yet prove that Gaelic signage is the impetus for another.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 13-Nov-09 at 09:16.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  2. #22

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    I will only acknowledge this fact as long as the English acknowledge that they should have Latin, German, French, Norse and Celtic sign posts! As they are all part of their own heritage. The point here is where do we draw the line? Our heritage is well documented and I am not saying that Gaelic was not part of the Caithness heritage. What I am saying is that it has no real part of Caithness’s heritage today, or since the herring boom. How many people seek Gaelic in Caithness, never mind able to read or pronounce it? Very few! It is a romantic language that has died out in Scotland. What next? Will we demand the romantic daily Scots diet or mutton, haggis and porridge being served on a daily basis at schools? Or even the old law that was passed stating that salmon could only be served to the apprentices twice a week. I can’t see the cash strapped schools serving salmon twice a week. Things have changed with time, as our language, its time to move on.

  3. #23
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    I think the difference is that latin, french, etc did actually die out in England whereas Gaelic did not suffer the same fate in Scotland. Whether we like it or not, we are part of a region and country where Gaelic is still being spoken and it seems to be having a slow resurgence on the back of SNP electoral success. I'd like to point out that in such a bouyant political landscape that Scotland has just now, swing-constituencies like the Western Isles have a powerful voice down in Holyrood. That is politics and democracy at work and since the wider Highland region is a Gaelic community in all but spoken language then it might be politically correct to bring the language of your forefathers back into use.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  4. #24

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    Latin and French and even German are being taught to a wider population in Scotland and England than Gaelic. In fact I assume that all first year pupils at high school are being taught French, but I could be wrong. If I am right there are more people today who have a better understanding of French than that of Gaelic. In Wikipedia it states that only 1.2% (58,562) of the Scottish population (2001) can speak Gaelic. The Gaelic speaking population in Scotland has never been over 10% since 1881 and even back to 1755 there were only 23% of the population who could speak Gaelic.

    Now assuming that democracy is still in full swing with SNP, then by your assessment the minority has the biggest say. But that is SNP for you. In fact how many of the SNP SMP’s can even speak the language? An estimated 86,000 Polish were working in Scotland in 2008; does this now mean that we should have Polish signs?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abewsed View Post
    Latin and French and even German are being taught to a wider population in Scotland and England than Gaelic. In fact I assume that all first year pupils at high school are being taught French, but I could be wrong. If I am right there are more people today who have a better understanding of French than that of Gaelic. In Wikipedia it states that only 1.2% (58,562) of the Scottish population (2001) can speak Gaelic. The Gaelic speaking population in Scotland has never been over 10% since 1881 and even back to 1755 there were only 23% of the population who could speak Gaelic.

    Now assuming that democracy is still in full swing with SNP, then by your assessment the minority has the biggest say. But that is SNP for you. In fact how many of the SNP SMP’s can even speak the language? An estimated 86,000 Polish were working in Scotland in 2008; does this now mean that we should have Polish signs?

    Germany is the biggest exporter in the world. It makes more sense to me to teach languages that will help in future careers and business than for any other reason.

    Out of the 1.2% of scots that speak gaelic how many speak it as their first/only language?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by theone View Post
    Germany is the biggest exporter in the world. It makes more sense to me to teach languages that will help in future careers and business than for any other reason.

    Out of the 1.2% of scots that speak gaelic how many speak it as their first/only language?
    Hence I learned German before I learned Gaelic. But the one very much helped the other. Not getting involved in the Gaelic road-sign mangle, it's been on here more times than hot dinners since Oct 2007 (what a memory eh?) but how many learn another language in the first place??? Damn few. Too small minded believing the world should learn English.

    If you ask me, people living in the UK have a phobia about learning another language in general. In most other countries having two languages (or more) is part of life. About time we went out and got one (a language or a life - either word would fit).

    WBG

  7. #27

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    Lets be honest here, who is the Gaelic signs for? Is it for the tourists? If so how many foreigners can read Gaelic, never mind pronounce it? I have this image in my head of a foreigner, who is probably more used to driving on the other side of the road, driving along whilst their partner is looking at the road map to try and find their destination. Then as they are driving along, headed to say Latheron and they are reading the AA Road Map, which is in English. Then all of a sudden they are faced with a double sign; one in English and the other is in Gaelic. Two things can happen, one they ignore the Gaelic sign post as it bears no relevance to their road map, or the other is they notice the Gaelic one and crash the car whilst trying to decipher it.

    If the road signs are for us, the local community, then it is also a waste of money, as the only sign I notice coming north is the Caithness sign at the Ord. All the rest I ignore, as I know where I am going. However again if I am heading south and need sign posts to tell me where to go, I need a road map, which is in English, so I again ignore the Gaelic signs. I have this vision of thousands of signposts dotted along the A9 from Perth blocking out the scenery and for what? We have a big debate about windmills being an eyesore, what will it be like with more signs?

    If we are to promote and save our (depending where you live) native language, then it is more sense to start at school and teach it when we are young. Then in 50 years time when we are all bi-lingual we can then read, write and speak in Gaelic. This then would lead to less time teaching the basic education. Also it would be classed as bias as then we would need primary school teachers to be able to able to teach Gaelic.

    The signs will not teach us to read or preserve Gaelic, just to recognise the sign. To preserve Gaelic, we would need to be able to read it, write it, speak it and use its proper grammar. Lets for example say I am going to drive to Dusseldorf and on the way I pass numerous place names to get there. Does this then mean I can speak German? Or even understand what Dusseldorf means? No, for all I care they could use the postcode, it is just an indication where to head, it is a sign, like an arrow, to help navigate to an area, that is all. It has no bearing on preserving a language or even teaching it.

  8. #28
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    I just wish the Govt. and Council promoters of Gaelic, plus the Mod organisers, would get into their thick heads that opposition to Gaelic road signs has nothing to do with opposition to the language per se and especially nothing to do with the Mod coming to Caithness. That's wonderful, great, brilliant - but will they get lost coming here if the road signs are not in Gaelic? I don't think so.

    At the risk of repeating myself, it's all a question of priorities and right now the UK can't afford anything that isn't essential (and that includes NHS Highland spending £80,000 on consultants just to tell them they need Gaelic tv in hospitals). What on earth is the cost of all this translation in public documents? It's not necessary so they shouldn't do it. What part of "we can't afford it" do Govts. and Councils not understand.

    England is currently spending £50m. on updating and opening up the coastal walk so people can walk all the way round the coast. Lovely idea but not now. There are more important things.
    The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abewsed View Post
    We have a big debate about windmills being an eyesore, what will it be like with more signs?
    Would it passify the critics of bilingual signs if the money was shown to come out of the rates from wind farms?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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