why have we not got a macdonalds resturant up here

[Serenity]

There's a very simple reason as to why there's no MacDonalds up here. Profit..or lack of it for the operator.

MacD's are a franchise operation. And that franchise costs alot of dosh.....

As a guide, the cost of an average restaurant is £200,000. You will need to provide at least 25% of the value as unencumbered funds, the remaining 75% can be funded through a bank loan with favourable funding terms.
Read more
There's also a one-off franchise fee of £30,000 and a training deposit of £5,000 which will be refunded when you complete your training.
There are also ongoing fees. These include:
- Monthly rent on the premises, based on sales and profitability (usually about 12%)
- Service Fee for use of the McDonald's system - 5% of sales
- Contribution to national marketing spend, currently 4.5% of sales


And the returns?
Cashflow is around £70,000 to £98,000 per year but this isn't guaranteed: it could be more, it could be less. This is before debt repayment. The average cash return on investment is currently around 10%.


Bear in mind that these figures are to take over an existing outlet. The cost of opening new facility would be bloody scary.


Are there any fans of MacD's in Caithness who'd be happy to stump up the cash for that little high-risk venture?

I didn't realise they were franchises. This does explain it. Are all of them the same?
How does it work that jobs can be applied for via head office then (for work in branches)?

The one thing I don't like about this thread is the way it is suggesting we shouldn't have one because of the obesity problem. If there is a business case for it and someone wants to run it, it should be allowed there. Supply and demand. I am sick of this "nanny state" business where we seem to have to be protected from ourselves.

[NickInTheNorth]

I didn't realise they were franchises. This does explain it. Are all of them the same?
How does it work that jobs can be applied for via head office then (for work in branches)?
.

There are (or were) about 6 owned by Macdonalds in the UK, all in London, last time I had any involvement with that business.

But in the main as already stated they are franchises. The job application thing is just part of the package of services provided as part of the franchise. Folks can also apply direct to their local franchise without bothering the HO.

[redeyedtreefrog]

not for some maybe but for others just need to say things up here have to change we dont have alot of big retailers up here iv lived here my whole life and the commnt on move to inverness why should i we should have all the things we want at home

If your logic is that we should have everything everywhere, then have you heard a city guy moan about the lack of beautiful countryside in the middle of London? Maybe they should transplant some of Caithness down here?

seems pathetic the nearest one is in inverness and there is plenty of room near tesco wick kids would love it and they dont get much living way up here well a kfc or sumthing would be ok but you know what up here will never change as all the folks up here are still in the 1920s they say change is good what do you think your kids will be eating when they go to university and where will they be working oh wait aminute lets get rid of tesco as well eh we might as well just say no to all new retailers comming up here lol over and out

Full stop button broken?

[transit]

i have the right to my opinion as well as every thing else also all the crime in the citys is also here even down to guns so no need to be ignorant

[NickInTheNorth]

i have the right to my opinion as well as every thing else also all the crime in the citys is also here even down to guns so no need to be ignorant

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, though I believe it is possibly me rather than northerner to whom you are addressing your comments.

As to gun crime, can you tell me the last time an estate in Caithness suffered 4 murders by gunfire within the course of a week as a result of a drugs "turf war"?

I lived within a mile of somewhere that has happened - and similar events have occurred there both before and since. If as you state you have lived up here all you life then you really do not know how very fortunate you are.

Believe me Caithness does NOT have any real issues regarding crime, not compared to virtually anywhere else in the UK.

[northener]

i have the right to my opinion as well as every thing else also all the crime in the citys is also here even down to guns so no need to be ignorant

Transit, the point is that just moaning about the fact that Caithness is not Perth or Stirling won't change anything. If you want certain facilities - then you have to do something about it. Caithness is not 'in the 1920's' because it doen't have certain consumer-driven outlets.

Who do you think funds these businesses? Some philanthropically-minded individual who has an overwhelming desire to feed the consumer cravings of a small population? Or do you think that possibly it's businessmen and women who expect to see a good return on the fact that they've risked a lot to create a business?
These outlets do not exist because of very good financial reasons. You can complain all you want, but no savvy operator is going to stick their financial neck out just to satisfy the needs of a few.

Have you noticed that the proposed development next to Tesco's has been shelved for the time being? Why do you think that is?

[EDDIE]

Dare i say it but if u had an asda in thurso you would probably have macdonalds to.Macdonalds is in a lot of asda stores rather than a cafe but we all no thurso aint getting an asda so no macdonalds just good old tescos instead that has no competition

[northener]

Dare i say it but if u had an asda in thurso you would probably have macdonalds to.Macdonalds is in a lot of asda stores rather than a cafe but we all no thurso aint getting an asda so no macdonalds just good old tescos instead that has no competition

Maybe in the really big towns and cities, Eddie. But no-one is going to spend quarter of a million minimum to open up a MacD's in what is essentially a small provincial outlet. Thurso and Wick would only register as large villages in many other parts of the UK -the turnover simply wouldn't be there to make it viable.

For example, Slough has a MacD's in it's Asda store...but the population of Slough alone is 119,000. In other words, the population of just that one town is four times that of the whole of the Far North. The numbers just don't stack up in our favour.

Or:
To get a turnover of £100k in Thurso or Wick every single person in the Far North of Scotland would have to travel into the MacD's outlet and buy a burger once a week. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

A McDonalds would be good but it would be like the cinema in Thurso,ye wid only go when ye wanted to.Probably once a fortnight,once a month.Spoons is the biz for me,pub grub,beer on tap and good craic or the fitbaw.Nae Spoons in Thurso though,maybe a market place for McDonalds,KFC,Pizza Hut,etc.Always go to the Central when we're up there,pub grub,beer on tap and good craic and bouncy castle.

[Rheghead]

Do you think MacDonalds could do me a cut-price deal on a franchise for a couple of years if I asked nicely?

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

Do you think MacDonalds could do me a cut-price deal on a franchise for a couple of years if I asked nicely?

Nae harm in asking Rhegs,I'd visit once a month.

Northeners right though the profit has to be right or its no worth bothering.

[Kevin Milkins]

I have always wondered what these fast food chains put in there food to make them so addictive. I have only experienced fast food about a dozen times in my life and each time I feel odd. ( A bit like the feeling you get when you have relapsed from giving up cigarettes, and had a first drag on a ciggy)

My grandchildren have used MacDonald's from a young age and it has been classed as an occasional treat for them. I am sure there is something addictive in the food to make them respond to the notion of a trip to MacDonald's in the excited way that they do. If we are out driving my granddaughter can spot a MacDonald's sign long before it gets on my radar and she will go into a serious strop if I refuse to stop.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

I have always wondered what these fast food chains put in there food to make them so addictive. I have only experienced fast food about a dozen times in my life and each time I feel odd. ( A bit like the feeling you get when you have relapsed from giving up cigarettes, and had a first drag on a ciggy)

My grandchildren have used MacDonald's from a young age and it has been classed as an occasional treat for them. I am sure there is something addictive in the food to make them respond to the notion of a trip to MacDonald's in the excited way that they do. If we are out driving my granddaughter can spot a MacDonald's sign long before it gets on my radar and she will go into a serious strop if I refuse to stop.

I widnae say fast food is addictive.Just a treat now and again.Two cheeseburgers,large fries and a large coke(fizzy drink).I know what you mean about the feeling about the relapse in giving up fags,its good.My fags are more addictive,but still taste good.I digress.A McDonalds in Caithness,young kids down the street in Wick,Thurso for a plonder week in week out.They'd use it.

[EDDIE]

Maybe in the really big towns and cities, Eddie. But no-one is going to spend quarter of a million minimum to open up a MacD's in what is essentially a small provincial outlet. Thurso and Wick would only register as large villages in many other parts of the UK -the turnover simply wouldn't be there to make it viable.

For example, Slough has a MacD's in it's Asda store...but the population of Slough alone is 119,000. In other words, the population of just that one town is four times that of the whole of the Far North. The numbers just don't stack up in our favour.

Or:
To get a turnover of £100k in Thurso or Wick every single person in the Far North of Scotland would have to travel into the MacD's outlet and buy a burger once a week. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen.

It wouldnt cost 1/4 million to set up macdonalds inside a store and if it was to go into the new tescos in thurso once its built if half of tesco customers have a madonalds it will make a decent profit.

[northener]

It wouldnt cost 1/4 million to set up macdonalds inside a store and if it was to go into the new tescos in thurso once its built if half of tesco customers have a madonalds it will make a decent profit.

How much would it cost then, Eddie? The 'new build' costs may be less overall, but you'd have to pay substantial rent to the store operators instead.

Also, I think your figure of 'half of Tesco customers' is being over-optimistic. You've only got to read this thread to see how some peoples opinions are very polarised regarding MacD's.
Granted that MacD's brand name will pull in customers from outside Tescos that a normal caff wouldn't get, but I firmly believe we don't have the population up here to sustain such an outlet long term.


We had one cinema, plus a bowling alley,plus a bar in Thurso up until recently and that couldn't survive - even though it had a monopoly on the whole of the Far North. That's not trying to put a downer on any new investment up here - I'm all for it. But the fact remains that the Far North is a very difficult place to trade for any Independant business.

The people who talk about opening these wonderful retail and purchasing opportunities unfortunately are those who can't or won't put the funds in to back up their opinion that these ventures are worthwhile. And that's an observation - not a dig.
It's very telling that local business people (who are the ones who would be coughing up the cash) aren't too keen to get involved in such ventures. Why? Because they know they are very risky ventures that could easily swallow up a large chunk of capital for no realistic return.

A good local example: Caledonia Restaurant in Wick. Somebody got off their backside and created something they believed was worthwhile. Spent their money. Nicely furnished, swathes of people on here singing their praises in the early days. On the road to a bright future.

Eighteen months late: Gone.


It's the same with all the furore surrounding redevelopment at John O'Groats. Plenty of people standing up and shaking their fists at the usual suspects, loads of folks demanding 'money be spent' blah,blah,blah....

Until you get down to who exactly is going to fund all this...and guess what happens then?

It goes very, very, quiet on the local front.

Everybody is always happy to see someone elses money being spent on something that will benefit them. It's a different story if they have to spend their own money on something that involves risk......


I could just eat a McD's double cheeseburger, though.

[Bobinovich]

...We had one cinema, plus a bowling alley,plus a bar in Thurso up until recently and that couldn't survive - even though it had a monopoly on the whole of the Far North....

It must be said that the management of that establishment did nothing to try and help themselves though. They cut back on maintenance, staff, opening hours, etc. - whether to simply cut costs or to maximise profits I cannot say, but it had the effect of running the place down.

...and they managed to do it twice !

I firmly believe that in the hands of someone with more business savvy it COULD be still a goldmine. Unfortunately because of the way it was run down it will require a much bigger initial investment to get it back on the right track. However if it had been sold as a going concern before the rot had truly set in I do think it would have recovered and fared well.

[golach]

Am I the only Orger, who avoids MacDonalds/Burger King and the like? I used to be taken to MacDonalds by my first grandaughter as a treat for her, she does not eat meat, but would tell me to order a Happy Meal and a large coke, she would eat the chips, I was allowed to eat the burger and drink the coke, she got to keep the toy, she was only 4 at the time, she is now 19.
Thats my only experience of these places.

[Phill]

It wouldnt cost 1/4 million to set up macdonalds inside a store and if it was to go into the new tescos in thurso once its built if half of tesco customers have a madonalds it will make a decent profit.

You won't get much change out of £250k either way. Also consider that Tesco's would want around 14% of your turnover (note turnover not profit) for your bit of their floor area, (floor area in supermarkets is worth thousands, the companies whose products you buy pay tesco's for the shelf space).

As for new build, bear in mind that the property will only have an 8 year financial life, i.e. you have 8 years to recover your build costs.

Simple facts are that Mac' d's and the like are low profit high volume outfits, and personally I'm glad there isn't one up here.

[Gizmo]

It must be said that the management of that establishment did nothing to try and help themselves though. They cut back on maintenance, staff, opening hours, etc. - whether to simply cut costs or to maximise profits I cannot say, but it had the effect of running the place down.

...and they managed to do it twice !

I firmly believe that in the hands of someone with more business savvy it COULD be still a goldmine. Unfortunately because of the way it was run down it will require a much bigger initial investment to get it back on the right track. However if it had been sold as a going concern before the rot had truly set in I do think it would have recovered and fared well.

Can't argue with most of that, but i'm not sure i agree with that last sentence, when i had a car, i was a regular cinema goer, this was also long before the rot had set in, and i was always really saddened at the lack of people using the place. Sure...for some of the blockbuster movie releases, you would have a near full house, but 9 times out of 10 when i went there, you'd be lucky to have 20/30 people at a showing, and on quite a few occasions i have seen less than 10 people. It always seemed that the lure of the pub was a lot stronger than the lure of the cinema.

[_Ju_]

Can't argue with most of that, but i'm not sure i agree with that last sentence, when i had a car, i was a regular cinema goer, this was also long before the rot had set in, and i was always really saddened at the lack of people using the place. Sure...for some of the blockbuster movie releases, you would have a near full house, but 9 times out of 10 when i went there, you'd be lucky to have 20/30 people at a showing, and on quite a few occasions i have seen less than 10 people. It always seemed that the lure of the pub was a lot stronger than the lure of the cinema.

Because the prices were too high. The same as big city prices.

In our town we used to have a saturday morning matinee for kids, with a raffle in the interval (remember intarvals?). Always full. There were also REAL discounts to put bottoms in seats, such as monday night BOGOFS, student card, pensioners card, family ticket discounts. In my mind it is better to have 50 people in a room, even at half price than running the film for 5 or 6 at full price. I went to All star a few times where it was just me and my son.....