Biting Dogs

[porshiepoo]

Many dogs bite when they are on the lead for various reasons but wouldn't bite off the lead for obvious reasons!

Muzzling a dog is a last resort if the underlying problem can't be solved. You can't teach a dog not to protect their young, so muzzling in public during that time is a temporary but viable solution.

Dogs have instincts and they sometimes can't be taught not to use them.

Completely agree. Instinct will always out! Every dog owner worldwide should be aware of the animal not just the breed or the pet. We assume that just because we have domesticated them that we have bred their natural instinct out of them - a very ignorant view of the animal world. We have simply suppressed it to some extent, however the right conditions will bring this instinct right back to the fore.
The most basic of the dog instinct is pack survival.

I have never felt the need to 'teach' a dog not to protect its young! The bitch I had knew her place within the pack and would not have bitten anyone that went near or touched her pups - same goes for every bitch my friend has ever bred from.


Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that a dog won't protect its young and I shouldn't have suggested that this wasn't the reason behind this particular attack (I don't know as I wasn't there). I just don't believe it's the only reason and I think it would be ignorant to think it was.
Would it have happened if the owner had been there? Possibly not because the gate may not have been open but IMO mainly because the pack hierarchy would have been maintained. I believe that this shift in hierarchy - probably coupled with the litter - is the root of what happened.
Doesn't help the man that was bitten though and I understand that.

Does this owner automatically have the right to put her take on the incident across and demand her dog back? No and nor should it.
Does promising to muzzle the dog automatically make her a competent, caring owner? No. Sorry but it doesn't - not when it's followed by her adamant belief that the dog acted out of character and would never do it again. That kind of comment (as well intentioned as it is) does not ooze confidence that she believes the dog should wear a muzzle.
How many people have been ordered to muzzle their dogs and don't - such as the one that should have been muzzled at the start of this topic? Too many to count no doubt.

As I said before I don't believe this particular owner is a bad person or in fact an incompetent dog owner, she has accepted responsibility for the incident which is more than most do and she has insisted that the dog will be muzzled.
I'm sure that legally she'll be entitled to the dog and her litter back and for what it's worth I really hope she does.
The removal of dogs should be aimed at the staffy who bit the child in this thread and has a record of doing so many times and the dog that is kicked as a matter of course by the people who own it.
But what happens to these dogs? Some are put down due to the breed, others are rehomed to equally ignorant families and the lucky ones get a decent home, are well loved and cared for.
What happens to the people who abused these dogs in the first place though? Most get away with it, those that are prosecuted get a ban for a minimal amount of time and if we're lucky there are some that get a prison term. If we're lucky! Then they eventually start it all over again.

[porshiepoo]

I understand what you are saying, but to take the dog from some one like emc246, and do nothing about the dog that bit jac9719's daughter, which seems to have bitten before, seems crazy to me.
I do understand that a muzzle does not solve the underlying problem, but it does protect the innocent.
Having puppies does make a dog very protective. i was brought up on a farm and we all knew from an early age not to go near any bitch who had just had a litter, no matter how docile they had been before.
Also an aquantance of mine was walking her pet poodle. Two staffies that were with their owner leapt on the poodle and severely injured it . the owners were not concerned, and blamed the poodle.
She went to the police who said there was nothing they could do about it. She asked if they could at least get the staffie owners to cough up for the vet's bill, to be told, 'You'll be lucky to get anything out of that crowd!'
what if it's a kid next time? By the way, the poodle survived.

Totally agree and understand with what you're saying - except the staying away from pups bit .lol.

If you believe a bitch will attack simply because she's had a litter then that bitch WILL attack and then you'll have convinced yourself that you were correct to believe that all bitches are over protective of their young.
The true fact however would be more along the lines of your energy telling that bitch that you're weak, scared and a possible threat and of course she will then react in the way you anticipated, BUT it's you that created that scenario not the dog.
There are lots of breeders around who breed from their bitches and are hands on from the moment they are born - heck we even help the bitch to whelp in some circumstances.
A whelping bitch DOES NOT automatically mean an aggressive, un responsive, devil of a dog.

I have no problem with muzzling a dog. As you say it does protect Joe public and is the responsible thing to do if there's a chance a dog will bite, however, personally I don't believe it should be left at that. The reason for biting has to be addressed not just the bite itself.

Your staffy incident is another one of those common problems of owners just not giving a damn unfortunately.
Staffies can make the most amazing pet in the right hands, however unfortunately for the breed some people are drawn toward the gladiatorial reputation of the breed and actually want that aggression to show - they have no hope of controlling it or containing it of course.

I will always believe though that the dog is as much a victim as the person it bit. That comment makes many people recoil but the fact is that man has created the problems that lie within the different breeds and owners have to take responsibility for the bite itself. The dog does not go out thinking "I'm gonna bite someone today", the dog simply reacts to various stimuli around it.

Unfortunately for many dogs the end result of a bite is being put to sleep. The owner is eventually then free to carry on regardless, we simply have to regulate dog ownership in some way.

[brandy]

why was one persons dog taken away from them for biting but not the others?
im under the assumption that the nursing bitch was taken away that has bitten once when it escaped, but the staffie that has bitten several times (including biting children) while on a lead and unmuzzled with the owner present, is still with said owner.

[jac1791]

Police has come to see me-- the dog owner has today been charged under the dangerous dog act .3 for not having the dog under control. although this doesnt help my daughter or anyone else it bites hopefully the PF will decide to take it to court.....

[sweetpea]

Who's going to court the dog? The PF prob will. what about the bullying?

[porshiepoo]

Police has come to see me-- the dog owner has today been charged under the dangerous dog act .3 for not having the dog under control. although this doesnt help my daughter or anyone else it bites hopefully the PF will decide to take it to court.....

At least it's something and shows that the matter is being taken seriously this time.
The chances are that the owner will lose the dog. Unfortunately I guess this means that the dog will be pts as he's a Staffy but even I can say better that humane ending than the dog end up mauling someone.
I sincerely hope that this owner gets a lifetime ban plus a prison term - not likely though.

[Stavro]

Well Anne the dog warden certainly isn't helpful in my eyes and neither are the police. It all depends on whether they like you or not and they make it personal when it shouldn't be - some people have a dog that bites children and they get them given back to them.
Then their is my dog. I went away for the weekend and left my dog, a greyhound, in the care of a friend. The dog had just given birth to 8 puppies. The person I left the dog with let her out for a pee and the gate was open and she apparently bit a man on the hand.
Next thing I am told the police and dog warden have taken my dog and puppies away and didn't even let anyone talk to them about the situation, they were all spoken to like dirt and treated like dirt aswell.
I have telephoned the police umpteen times to ask about my pets and when will I get them back and what is going to happen - been told I'd get a call back - NOTHING.
The dog has never ever done this before and is always friendly and well-behaved and in my care I have let her run off the lead loads of times and she was perfect. They are making out she is a savage dog and she isn't. She had just had her first litter of pups and it is ANIMAL INSTINCT to protect their young when feeling a threat.
But no, they aren't even taking into account she has had puppies and that it is out of character. They just want to punish me and take my animals away from me. But I will be getting her back and the people who were waiting to get one of the puppies as a pet will get their puppy.
My solicitor told me they have no right keeping them away from me, it has been 3 weeks now, and since the dog was kept in care of a friend for the weekend, was not my fault she bit. If they want me to muzzle her I will, but if I don't get them back I will sue them as I have been told I am in my rights to do so.
The people who phoned the police and dog warden should've taken into account the dog had just had a litter of pups instead of implying she is a dangerous dog because they are just being cruel and spiteful.

That is really awful for you, emc246. Of course your dog was over-protective and not her usual self.

I trust that you will get her and her puppies back safe and well in the very near future, for it is evident that you love your dog.

[DanaFlett]

I have a one year old dog,and if she ever bite anyone,down she goes.
This is sad for your daughter,my son was nipped in the face when he was around five years old by a family pet no names off course,but i wanted him put down,cause he had nipped children in the past(excuse was they must of been taunting him)i think not.The dog was never put down,...

[Scorpio12thNov]

I've been bitten by two jack russell terriers, but I still love dogs. What makes a dog bite & be ill tempered? Were they mis-treated as pups? Tumar in the brain? I believe if you bring up your pet with love & attention, they will honour you, & even die for you...

[thebigman]

Also contact the dog warden they have a statutory duty to deal with dangerous dogs as do the police. Any dog that has bitten someone is dangerous.

The dog wardens statutory duty relates to stray dogs not dangerous dogs.

[jac1791]

as i said the dog warden Anne was great, she is on this case too so id like to say here ------ THX ANNE FOR YOUR HELP

[oldmarine]

I've been bitten by two jack russell terriers, but I still love dogs. What makes a dog bite & be ill tempered? Were they mis-treated as pups? Tumar in the brain? I believe if you bring up your pet with love & attention, they will honour you, & even die for you...

You hit the nail on the head with this comment. That goes for children as well as for pets. Love will overcome ill temper and mis-treatment.

[Scorpio12thNov]

Thanks old marine

[porshiepoo]

I've been bitten by two jack russell terriers, but I still love dogs. What makes a dog bite & be ill tempered? Were they mis-treated as pups? Tumar in the brain? I believe if you bring up your pet with love & attention, they will honour you, & even die for you...

As much as I appreciate your comment and opinion, I have to say that I disagree with alot of that statement.
Love and attention is not necessarily what a dog needs if that love and attention becomes coddling and attention when the dog is not in a calm state of mind.
I understand the sentiment behind what you say but a dog will only "honour" you if you respect the dynamics of a pack and the pack mentality.
You can be as loving and smothering as you want to a dog but the dog will not interpret it that way - they simply do not 'think' the way that we do. Love and attention certainly does not equal pack safety in the eyes of a dog.
"Die for you" - Hmmmm, that was one I had to get my head round. lol.
A dog may perform an action that we as humans interpret as dying for us but believe me that is not what is going through the dogs mind. The pack dynamic will always be forefront of a dogs mind and yes a dog will protect it's pack to the extreme but they aren't thinking 'I'll die for this person', they will simply act on instinct without processing the possible outcome the way humans do.

Completely useless piece of information for you there but there you go.

I would like to say that I'm glad your dog bite experiences has not put you off dogs - maybe just put you off the owners!? lol.

My daughter was bitten by a Rottweiler when she was about 6 - still loves dogs though and does not blame the dog at all. The dog was sitting in the boot of an estate with the owner (Boot door was up) and we asked first if my daughter could stroke it and the guy said yes. As soon as her hand went out the dog bit her. I must say that the guy didn't seem that bothered, although he did claim that the dog had never done it before.

[Scorpio12thNov]

As much as I appreciate your comment and opinion, I have to say that I disagree with alot of that statement.
Love and attention is not necessarily what a dog needs if that love and attention becomes coddling and attention when the dog is not in a calm state of mind.
I understand the sentiment behind what you say but a dog will only "honour" you if you respect the dynamics of a pack and the pack mentality.
You can be as loving and smothering as you want to a dog but the dog will not interpret it that way - they simply do not 'think' the way that we do. Love and attention certainly does not equal pack safety in the eyes of a dog.
"Die for you" - Hmmmm, that was one I had to get my head round. lol.
A dog may perform an action that we as humans interpret as dying for us but believe me that is not what is going through the dogs mind. The pack dynamic will always be forefront of a dogs mind and yes a dog will protect it's pack to the extreme but they aren't thinking 'I'll die for this person', they will simply act on instinct without processing the possible outcome the way humans do.

Completely useless piece of information for you there but there you go.

I would like to say that I'm glad your dog bite experiences has not put you off dogs - maybe just put you off the owners!? lol.

My daughter was bitten by a Rottweiler when she was about 6 - still loves dogs though and does not blame the dog at all. The dog was sitting in the boot of an estate with the owner (Boot door was up) and we asked first if my daughter could stroke it and the guy said yes. As soon as her hand went out the dog bit her. I must say that the guy didn't seem that bothered, although he did claim that the dog had never done it before.

Hey Porsh. I was a bit older when I was bitten, around 15-16. At least I wasn't 6 & it wasn't a rottweilerPoor Lassie...

The experiences I've had with family dogs is about love & attention, but it's also about discipline. Walk your dog regular, 2-3 times a day, talk to your dog & cuddle your dog. A pet is just like a child & if your bairn comes up to you & wants to play with you, are you going to say no to that child? If no, why would you say no to the dog? & when a dog is part of your family, they're in their pack.

But then there is the discipline, no means no! & as long as your dog understands the "meaning of no" then all will be ok. If your dog is always whining for biscuits & if you give in to them, they're in control. Not you, the owner. Before you know it, your dog is overweight, becomes depressed, then starts snapping & biting.

Not only that but dogs are brilliant company. Especially going out for walks. But as I said, these are my experiences with dogs.

& yes it did put me off the owners!

[porshiepoo]

Hey Porsh. I was a bit older when I was bitten, around 15-16. At least I wasn't 6 & it wasn't a rottweilerPoor Lassie...

The experiences I've had with family dogs is about love & attention, but it's also about discipline. Walk your dog regular, 2-3 times a day, talk to your dog & cuddle your dog. A pet is just like a child & if your bairn comes up to you & wants to play with you, are you going to say no to that child? If no, why would you say no to the dog? & when a dog is part of your family, they're in their pack.

But then there is the discipline, no means no! & as long as your dog understands the "meaning of no" then all will be ok. If your dog is always whining for biscuits & if you give in to them, they're in control. Not you, the owner. Before you know it, your dog is overweight, becomes depressed, then starts snapping & biting.

Not only that but dogs are brilliant company. Especially going out for walks. But as I said, these are my experiences with dogs.

& yes it did put me off the owners!

I guess this is one of those topics where opinions can go and on and on and on and.........lol.

Personally, as much as I respect that your opinion comes from the right place, I would never ever treat a dog like a child.
Dogs are animals and as such do not think like a human, of any age!
I personally would not give a dog anything that it "demands". Start that trick and the dog will soon expect it to happen all the time, then what happens when the dog doesn't get the attention it's demanding??? It starts to bite its demand. The whole thing just escalates.
And by giving in to a dogs demands you are actually confirming to that dog that the dog is in command.

Did you see that tv show on those overweight dogs? How bloomin awful? Has to be classed as animal cruelty doesn't it? The ones with the Rottie that just would not accept that the dog was overweight - killing it with misguided kindness and love.

Still, I guess we'll always have different opinions on these things huh! The way of the world.

[ragdollyanna]

As someone with two kids under school age this subject is something I feel really strongly about.
Dogs should be kept under strict control in public areas, particularly where young children are playing. Twice recently I have seen 2 different young women in our housing estate walking Staffies, without leads, last time past a swing park where my kids were playing and then down past the primary school.
Now, I have nothing against Staffies - I know they can be hugely affectionate but just as human beings can "lose it" so can dogs!!!! Who knows what "triggers" aggressive behaviour? I knew a dog that used to go mad if someone passed carrying a plastic bag! If a dog with strong jaws like that did decide to attack a child, there wouldn't be much I or it's owner would be able to do - and that scares me.

[Miss Mack]

Went on holiday to Poland a couple of years ago, all dogs there, must be muzzled when in a public place !

[oldmarine]

Went on holiday to Poland a couple of years ago, all dogs there, must be muzzled when in a public place !

Sounds like a good idea. Perhaps that would be a good thing to do in all places.

[kat300586]

i would trust this dog use r talkin about with my kids lives.my kids hav been round this dog unmuzzled loads of times an they hav never ones even tryed anythin with them or any of the other kids that r around them.