Is it about time.

[Gleber2]

I heard on the radio the other night that, in a recent poll in Edinburgh, more young people admitted to trying cannabis before tobacco as a first drug. Although there will be many statements about the evils of cannabis smoking and how we should come down hard on all who use it, the fact remains that the entire power of the world's police forces have not succeded in reducing the traffic. In fact, the ammount of cannabis used and consumed by the people of th UK has increased by a great deal over the last twenty years.

The disturbing aspect of this poll is that more and more young people are smoking a substance for which there are no quality controls. Chemists have stated that the cheap street resin which is available in copious quantities contains an amazing collection of potentially dangerous substances. Camel dung, polymer resin, solder flux, very strong tranquilisers, melted vynyl and so on. All of these substances are potentially dangerous and I have heard so many young people cough their lungs up after years of smoking this manufactured rubbish. It is also very cheap which puts it within the budget of vulnerable young people. We cannot stop the drug business. It is an impossibility and, by leaving it illegal, we are glamourising it in the minds of young kids. Cannabis will lead to more dangerous drugs as most of these young experimenters will start smoking tobacco as a result of trying hashish.
If we cannot stop this trade in garbage, then we have to do something to ensure that our kids are not taking in poisonous substances thinking that it is the real thing. Those who circumvent the criminal dealers by growing a pure form of the drug for medicinal reasons or for recreation get treated worse than people who kill due to drunk driving.

It is high time, I feel, that the government and all other people in power faced up to the reality of the situation and made moves to ensure, one way or another, that our young people are no longer buying garbage to enrich some drug Baron in Russia.

Alcohol kills thousands anually as does tobacco. Cannabis in a relatively pure form has never killed anyone,ever. Something is wrong somewhere but what can we do about it. Any ideas?????

[RandomHero]

I disagree.

1. On par, pot is bad for you. Its negative effects on teenagers – physical, psychological, social – are well-documented.
In 1998, nearly 77,000 people were admitted to hospital emergency rooms suffering from marijuana-related problems. This was an increase of more than 373 percent since 1991 (National Institute on Drug Abuse (2001), NIDA InfoFacts: Marijuana).

2. Pot is addictive. Addiction is presently defined by how the use of a substance impairs a broad array of life arenas, not just whether the substance is physically addictive, demonstrated by tolerance and withdrawal states. Ironically, however, recent studies (Gianluigi et al. (2000), Nature Neuroscience, 3, 1073-1074 and Budney et al. (2001), Archives of General Psychiatry, 58, 917-924) have discovered a withdrawal pattern in marijuana users shortly after they quit, which includes persistent cravings, decreased appetite, sleep difficulties, weight loss, increased aggression, irritability and restlessness.

3. Teen pot use is steady, if not on the rise – as are pot-related arrests. The latest data from the well-respected Monitoring the Future Survey, a national survey of high school kids, show that in 2001, past marijuana use among 12th graders is 37 percent and daily use is holding steady at 5.8 percent, a significant increase from a low of 2 percent in 1991.

The number of cannabis-involved arrests by year in New York City has climbed from 4,762 in 1991 to 50,830 in 2000 (NIDA (2000), Epidemiologic trends in drug abuse. NIH Community Epidemiology Work Group). In New York City, 33 percent of 1999 arrestees were 16- to 20-year-olds.

If we are infact "glamourising" cannabis and we do indeed make it legal, what about all the other drugs that will still be illegal? Will they not also be 'glamourised'. The Government aren't getting their jolly's out of not letting people have cannabis legally, they are doing it for the health and safety of it's people. I don't want to start on the whole "The government is bad coz it's says so in the papers" discussion. There will never be agreement on this subject, I am merley stating my opinion as you are also doing.

[Gleber2]

Not had time to fully digest your very well presented post and ,indeed, have no wish to argue with you on the pros and cons of cannabis legalisation. My point is that people who consume pot are consuming a horrendous cocktail of nasty substances. Cannabis,per se , is not truly addictive in the way that heroin is, as any long term user with no axe to grind will tell you. I am not aware of the statistics you quote and I am not prepared to dispute figures as these figures are history as soon as they are written down. What I say about hashish can be applied to all of the recreationally used drugs and, indeed, I see total legalisation of all drugs as the only way ahead. This is a view held by a rising number of politicians worldwide. As the number of users of all ages increases, so thefore will the number of arrests increase. Legalisation opens the way to control where-as prohibition leads to all things being hidden from the eyes of those who write the statistics.
Tobacco is very addictive and a lot more people end up in hospital because they use it/abuse it than are there from smoking pot. Alcohol is addictive and causes more trouble than anything else, particularly now, as the alcohol producers sell it mixed with pop. Should we make both of these very addictive and destructive substances illegal. You would have a revolution on your hands!!If the government,as you say, is concerned about the health and safety of the people then tobacco and alcohol should be banned.

You, I would imagine from the tenor of your post, are speaking purely from statistics and second hand knowledge and, although you are entitled to your opinion, I can't help but think that you are somewhat blinkered to the facts.

My point is that our young people are being fed a propoganda line which they question and don't believe and, by experimenting for themselves, are taking in extremely dangerous substances like solder flux into their lungs. I am not really concerned about the legal position of cannabis but I am very concerned about the poisons being sold with it.

Have you any knowledge of the process which led to the prohibition of cannabis. It is a very interesting tale of money and political sleaze.

[golach]

Alcohol kills thousands anually as does tobacco. Cannabis in a relatively pure form has never killed anyone,ever. Something is wrong somewhere but what can we do about it. Any ideas?????

Come off it Gleber2 Cannabis killed a mate of mine trying to do his duty as a Customs Officer, catching a known smuggler

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2...y5620065t0.asp

[Gleber2]

Come off it Gleber2 Cannabis killed a mate of mine trying to do his duty as a Customs Officer, catching a known smuggler

If ye want to be facetious,Aged One,there was no relatively pure cannabis in that boat. I take your point, Golach, but his death could be put down to very illogical laws being applied as duty. Ask yourself why cannabis is illegal!!!!

[golach]

If ye want to be facetious,Aged One,there was no relatively pure cannabis in that boat. I take your point, Golach, but his death could be put down to very illogical laws being applied as duty. Ask yourself why cannabis is illegal!!!!

I find it easy to understand why its illeagal..........ITS THE LAW of the land

[clash67]

Come off it Gleber2 Cannabis killed a mate of mine trying to do his duty as a Customs Officer, catching a known smuggler

I am sorry for the loss of your mate I know he was only carrying out his duty however like Gleber2 said (more or less) it wasn't cannabis that lead to your friends death but illogical laws laid down by a goverment that has alterrial motives for keeping cannabis illegal, just ask any police officer how much his time is taken up by alcohol related crime compared to crimes involving people under the influence of cannabis.
The fact that the goverment hasn't acknowleged the lack of quality control by legalising it speaks volumes and certainly doesn't show any concern about our health.
The amount of damage alcohol does to the human body far outways any damage done by cannibas use, and what realy bothers me is when somebody starts dictating how bad cannibas is while standing at a bar filling their face with alcohol to the point where they cant even say cannibis and then they start getting stroppy, You very rarely see someone becoming violent under the influence of cannabis.

[Gleber2]

I find it easy to understand why its illeagal..........ITS THE LAW of the land

But why was the law passed in the first place. That is the question I asked you. It is very interesting tale. Hemp, paper, petrochemicals, cotton, political sleaze, there are many underlying but never discussed reasons for the laws passed in the twenties and thirties. How can you seriously support a piece of legislation when you have no idea why it was passed to start off with.

Clash67 we are of a similar mind.

[clash67]

I find it easy to understand why its illeagal..........ITS THE LAW of the land

Sorry Golach but is the laws of this land that has the country in the state it is in.
Politicians have to be kept an eye on. Its a thin line between laws and dictatorship and anyway you would be suprised if you knew how many of those who put these laws in place actualy use cannabis themselves, I personally could name a few, but being a gentleman I would not do so.

[golach]

I am sorry for the loss of your mate I know he was only carrying out his duty however like Gleber2 said (more or less) it wasn't cannabis that lead to your friends death but illogical laws laid down by a goverment that has alterrial motives for keeping cannabis illegal, just ask any police officer how much his time is taken up by alcohol related crime compared to crimes involving people under the influence of cannabis.
The fact that the goverment hasn't acknowleged the lack of quality control by legalising it speaks volumes and certainly doesn't show any concern about our health.
The amount of damage alcohol does to the human body far outways any damage done by cannibas use, and what realy bothers me is when somebody starts dictating how bad cannibas is while standing at a bar filling their face with alcohol to the point where they cant even say cannibis and then they start getting stroppy, You very rarely see someone becoming violent under the influence of cannabis.

It was the likes of Roderick Mclean and his ilk, the Drug Dealers and smugglers that caused the death of Alister not the Law, and as for cannabis users not being violent and killers just look in any newspaper and see the number of deaths caused by drivers under the lnfluence of cannabis, see the number of muggings of pensioners, and you will see that the offenders usual excuse "I had been smoking cannabis, and taking drugs". I am a non smoker now but I have never seen anywhere that a Tobacco smoker has ever been so under the influence, show me that about cannabis. As far as I personally am concerned anyone who smokes cannabis or takes any illeagal substance or advocates the use of such, to me is a common Junkie

[Gleber2]

It was the likes of Roderick Mclean and his ilk, the Drug Dealers and smugglers that caused the death of Alister not the Law, and as for cannabis users not being violent and killers just look in any newspaper and see the number of deaths caused by drivers under the lnfluence of cannabis, see the number of muggings of pensioners, and you will see that the offenders usual excuse "I had been smoking cannabis, and taking drugs". I am a non smoker now but I have never seen anywhere that a Tobacco smoker has ever been so under the influence, show me that about cannabis. As far as I personally am concerned anyone who smokes cannabis or takes any illeagal substance or advocates the use of such, to me is a common Junkie

Your last statement is prejudiced uninformed garbage and completely insulting to the absolute millions of cannabis users world wide. I have never come accross a case where the mugger was under the inluence of cannabis primarily. Most cases are atributable to heroin and alcohol or cocaine.

However, Gollach, I asked how we could stop our young people from using polluted and dangerously impure substances to the detriment of their health.
I have no wish to get involved in an emotional arguement upon a subject which you patantly know nothing and are too set in your ways to find out truth instead of cant.. Once more the old rule applies,"Don't bother me with facts, I've already made up my mind". You like a pint,Golach,does that make you an alcoholic? And how many millions of people have been killed by drunk drivers?

[RandomHero]

If we legalise cannabis, then what next? Like Gleber2 said in his original post, we are "glamourising" cannabis by making it illegal; if we legalise it, are the other drugs, like cocaine, not glamorous?

Cannabis contains more tar than cigarettes so even for medical purposes could cause more problems. With regards to what Gleber2 said about alcohol being much more of a killer, should we ban it? Wouldn't be the first time a prohabition has taken place up this way. You say Cannabis is never the only substance found in a someone's body who has caused an accident or murder, is that not the same case for alcohol fuelled crimes? Beer and stupidity? Wine and anger? Rage and weed?

[acameron]

Lived in Edinburgh for 15 years and seeing and working with young guys and girls smoking "the stuff" like sweeties - and pure or impure there was a definite decline in there attitude to everything.
There is enough nonsense out there with binge drinking - smoking - perscripted and non perscripted drugs that legalising cannabis has to be a big fat no!
I am not an angel by any means - I smoke and I have an occasional drink mainly through peer pressure when I was younger and I am guessing that the majority of people who take drink, tobacco, cannabis or drugs of any kind have done so through peer pressure. If a child can grow up without the influence of any artificial “high” they would lead far better lives and be better people for it.

[clash67]

It was the likes of Roderick Mclean and his ilk, the Drug Dealers and smugglers that caused the death of Alister not the Law, and as for cannabis users not being violent and killers just look in any newspaper and see the number of deaths caused by drivers under the lnfluence of cannabis, see the number of muggings of pensioners, and you will see that the offenders usual excuse "I had been smoking cannabis, and taking drugs". I am a non smoker now but I have never seen anywhere that a Tobacco smoker has ever been so under the influence, show me that about cannabis. As far as I personally am concerned anyone who smokes cannabis or takes any illeagal substance or advocates the use of such, to me is a common Junkie

Beware Golach they may make alcohol illegal one day, what would you say then,would you stick to your princapils and never drink again or will you buy your drink on the black market and become automaticaly branded a criminal?

[RandomHero]

if alcohol was banned I would be fine. Infact I would support it. I do drink a tad too much sometimes but I can live without it, but those who can't you must take a serious look at yourselves.

[Gleber2]

If we legalise cannabis, then what next? Like Gleber2 said in his original post, we are "glamourising" cannabis by making it illegal; if we legalise it, are the other drugs, like cocaine, not glamorous?

Cannabis contains more tar than cigarettes so even for medical purposes could cause more problems. With regards to what Gleber2 said about alcohol being much more of a killer, should we ban it? Wouldn't be the first time a prohabition has taken place up this way. You say Cannabis is never the only substance found in a someone's body who has caused an accident or murder, is that not the same case for alcohol fuelled crimes? Beer and stupidity? Wine and anger? Rage and weed?

I have never, in forty tears in the music business, seen rage created by weed.When cannabis is smoked in the absence of tobacco ,as it should be, the quantity required is so small so as cause no problem with tar.

Glamour and peer pressure and, more importantly low price ,makes it the drug of choice for those dabbling while still at school.

What I am saying is that the present attitude to drugs of all sorts, particularly the legal attitude, is causing more of a problem than it can cure and we, as a race, need to find another way of tackling the problem. If we cannot stop this trade, we need to protect the young people who are fed so much contradictory crap that they have no idea of the reality of the choices they are making. I am sure that most people would prefer that their chidren never started to experiment but, faced with the knowledge that it cannot be avoided, as many parents would agree, do we not have a duty to make sure that they are not, in their ignorance, smoking camel dung and solder flux?

[golach]

Your last statement is prejudiced uninformed garbage and completely insulting to the absolute millions of cannabis users world wide.

My last statement was my personal opinion and yes it is predjudiced, because I am ANTI illeagal drugs, my choice, my preference, I have nowhere said anything different, maybe because I see myself as a law abiding citizen.
Because I choose not to take this "illeagal drug" cannabis does not make me "uninformed", I am maybe not as articulate and educated as your good self Gleber2, but I am an informed and enlightened man, and my vote is NO to any drugs, and none of your point of view will change my opinion

[RandomHero]

Parents can protect their children. I will never smoke as it is but I would be totally against smoking or drinking infront of my children as I have been there as a child. I have never smoked it and never intend on smoking it. The business I am in, it is rife. We can live without it. We have got bigger fish to fry in this world.

[Gleber2]

My last statement was my personal opinion and yes it is predjudiced, because I am ANTI illeagal drugs, my choice, my preference, I have nowhere said anything different, maybe because I see myself as a law abiding citizen.
Because I choose not to take this "illeagal drug" cannabis does not make me "uninformed", I am maybe not as articulate and educated as your good self Gleber2, but I am an informed and enlightened man, and my vote is NO to any drugs, and none of your point of view will change my opinion

Fairy nuff.On this subject you are not an enlightened man and not so well informed. Have you found out why cannabis is illegal yet?The biggest drug problem we are facing is from legal drugs and over prescribing by law abiding Doctors. In most cases,I am as against the drug business as much as you are but I am enlightened and informed enough to know that prohibition is failing miserably and something else must be done to protect the young victims of this foreign inspired traffic.

The perennial arguement about legalising or not legalising cannabis is pathetic and verging on the juvenile. Our problems need to be cured and we must find a means to cure them.Your way does not work and we need to change it.

[Gleber2]

Parents can protect their children. I will never smoke as it is but I would be totally against smoking or drinking infront of my children as I have been there as a child. I have never smoked it and never intend on smoking it. The business I am in, it is rife. We can live without it. We have got bigger fish to fry in this world.

Parents are patently not protecting their children because they cannot.Children tend to cast aside the example of their parents and rebel and in our reality there is always some-one who will lead them astray. Good grief, we have 11 year old heroin addicts. You may not smoke or drink in front of your children but do they never watch telly?