American National Health Service?

[tonkatojo]

[QUOTE=Alice in Blunderland;584090]As for stopping all private work and the staff will devote their time to the NHS.............
Dubai are currently recruiting Consultants and doctors for thier hospitals paying in excess of £250,000 tax free per year and offering up to £40,000 towards childrens education, free flights home, luxury accommodation and servants while working in the country, mmmmm now let me see it could be a hard choice NHS or something similar to what I described.


Perhaps I should have said their working time.
Now Dubai, if the said doctors/consultants think that is the route to take and their conscience allows them to lured by riches and the like, they would not in my opinion have much moral fibre, now if they went to gain more experience that would be different, but I don't think Dubai has teaching hospitals.
This is only my opinion. I don't think it would be a hard choice if I was in that position, which I am not, I am one of the masses and like to think I have a conscience.

[DOCTOR]

This is exactly my point, if there was no private work/hospitals then the consultants/surgeons would be more inclined to devote there time to more NHS work. Also the shortage of staff in NHS hospitals would be no more as the staff that are employed there would be more inclined to take up their vocation where they were probably trained in the first instance. Thus reducing waiting times for the masses not just the favoured in life.

But to abuse the masses in advocating a two tear health system in my humble opinion is morally wrong.

The consultants/surgeons doing private work do it in their own time.They duly adhere to the contracted hours of NHS.If you stop private practice the NHS hospitals cannot force them to come and work extra.This private work they are doing is in their own free time. It will not improve waiting times.

In some NHS trusts in England they introduced initiative lists. This was to reduce waiting time in outpatient clinics,operations and other procedures. These activities took place (or maybe still taking place in some hospitals ) on weekends when outpatient clinic and operating theatres were free.The medical and nursing staff helping out were paid quite a handsome amount.The people were working extra hours outside their contracted hours ( with consent and willingness ) It is regarded as private work for NHS patients. The only difference is that NHS is paying for the extra cost.

No one is abusing the masses. The NHS is a huge organisation set up to cater for everyone. The private health system is in fact reducing some of the burden and removing some patients who can pay from the waiting lists thus helping the masses.

[tonkatojo]

The consultants/surgeons doing private work do it in their own time.They duly adhere to the contracted hours of NHS.If you stop private practice the NHS hospitals cannot force them to come and work extra.This private work they are doing is in their own free time. It will not improve waiting times.

The NHS is a huge organisation set up to cater for everyone. The private health system is in fact reducing some of the burden and removing some patients who can pay from the waiting lists thus helping the masses.

And thus creating the two tier system.

[Rheghead]

And thus creating the two tier system.

You'll get that in everything from 1st class travel to healthcare. Why should I have to put up with the non-paying scum-like riff-raff?

[DOCTOR]

And thus creating the two tier system.

Yes, I am afraid two tier system as in other walks of life.

The first and economy classes in airlines, trains, different star hotels, the choices in food, clothing etc. The list goes on.

If the Government and politicians decide to change the system( abolishing private practice ) and invest a lot more money into NHS (after getting referendum by the people), I will respect the majority's decision (even if it differs from mine). This is acceptance in democratic society.

[tonkatojo]

Yes, I am afraid two tier system as in other walks of life.

The first and economy classes in airlines, trains, different star hotels, the choices in food, clothing etc. The list goes on.

If the Government and politicians decide to change the system( abolishing private practice ) and invest a lot more money into NHS (after getting referendum by the people), I will respect the majority's decision (even if it differs from mine). This is acceptance in democratic society.

Yes but my point is with health every one should be the same, as for first and second services in other aspects of life I can live with that, or as you stated "communism" would have to prevail.
"And the likes of Rheghead would have to lump it. "

[Alan16]

There is obviously some protracted debate between two or three of you, but I'm too lazy to read it so I'm just going to start with my own question.

Can someone explain why Obama has tabled a bill to provide health insurance for 50 million uninsured Americans, and it is these uninsured Americans who hate this idea?

[tonkatojo]

There is obviously some protracted debate between two or three of you, but I'm too lazy to read it so I'm just going to start with my own question.

Can someone explain why Obama has tabled a bill to provide health insurance for 50 million uninsured Americans, and it is these uninsured Americans who hate this idea?

I am also to lazy to research what you want. Good luck.

[DOCTOR]

Yes but my point is with health every one should be the same, as for first and second services in other aspects of life I can live with that, or as you stated "communism" would have to prevail.
"And the likes of Rheghead would have to lump it. "

Everyone is same in health system of NHS at present.

The private healthcare is for ones who pay for it. If you stop this avenue then you are taking freedom of choice away ( from the people who have money ). This is not fair and against their rights. In NHS everyone is treated on their health needs. In NHS they don't ask about your resources before giving you the treatment.The different stories quoted by different people are probably biased and exaggerated.

[Rheghead]

Everyone is same in health system of NHS at present.

The private healthcare is for ones who pay for it. If you stop this avenue then you are taking freedom of choice away ( from the people who have money ).

And.....you might agree that it is 'rich people' who are actually paying more towards the NHS through taxation and cutting waiting lists by going to private healthcare. Seems like a win-win situation for the poor?

It would be an opt-out system that would cripple the NHS.

[tonkatojo]

Everyone is same in health system of NHS at present.

The private healthcare is for ones who pay for it. If you stop this avenue then you are taking freedom of choice away ( from the people who have money ). This is not fair and against their rights. In NHS everyone is treated on their health needs. In NHS they don't ask about your resources before giving you the treatment.The different stories quoted by different people are probably biased and exaggerated.

What stories are these, so we can all be informed ?.

[tonkatojo]

And.....you might agree that it is 'rich people' who are actually paying more towards the NHS through taxation and cutting waiting lists by going to private healthcare. Seems like a win-win situation for the poor?

It would be an opt-out system that would cripple the NHS.

No, once again, the basic need for health care in our civilised country should not be based on wealth, but on clinical need, the idea that because you are more well off than others who can buy a better/quicker service is in my eyes morally wrong.
But if that's what you are that's what you are.

[Rheghead]

It looks like Obama got the health reform that he was after, well done him.