St Johns Square Thurso

Zeebie · 02-Dec-03, 12:14

Just another thought about the Christmas lights which I think look exceptionally pretty this year.

As you approach the town from the South the picture would be complete if only St Peter's and St Andrew's Church were outlined in lights. It is such a beautiful shaped Church which dominates the Town Square - it is a shame not to include it in the Christmas theme. After all Christmas and the Church should be one..........

What does anybody else think?

**Mr P Cannop** · 02-Dec-03, 12:46

photos are on the caithness.org web site

http://www.caithness.org/christmas20...hotos.htm?18?1

http://www.caithness.org/christmas20...hotos.htm?19?1

**rich** · 02-Dec-03, 16:10

So there it is - spelled out in lights. HAPPY CHRISTMAS THURSO.
What are you people thinking of?
How can you be so insenitive to the British community of non-Christians - athiests, agnostics, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus etc etc ????
And for all I know there may be a few Odin worshippers left over from the folk who gave Thurso its name.
Or even the odd Pict living in holes in Springpark.
For shame!
The correct phraseology is HAPPY HOLIDAYS THURSO.
Is it too much to expect a message representing the new global ecumenicism to which all thoughtful people subscribe?

Zeebie · 02-Dec-03, 18:49

Sorry Rich

But Christmastime IS a Christian festival not any other kind of religion or NON RELIGION.

Keep Christ in Christmas.

**rich** · 02-Dec-03, 19:55

I forgot about the Hare Krishnas. Sorry. And the scientologists.
Christians should be able to celebrate their festival any way they like but I think it's a bit much to hijack the main Square in Thurso.
Perhaps the celebrations should be confined to Christian households or to the numerous , ill-attended churches in Thurso. WHy not put a light up J.C. on top of a steeple.
Remeber that this Christmas thing is an innovation in Caithness. In the first half of the last century shops would remain open on Christmas day.
The true Caithness celebration is Hogmany and it is religion-free and all the better for that, if I may be allowed to express a traditionalist point of view.....

**Naefearjustbeer** · 02-Dec-03, 20:47

I take it that you dont give or recieve any Christmas cards or presents then.

**rich** · 02-Dec-03, 21:04

All gifts gratefully received!!!!!

**golach** · 02-Dec-03, 21:05

Rich
describe a true Caithness Hogmanay for me will ye, I thought you could see that any Saturday Night in both Thursa or Week or any other toon for that matter.
There is NO real Hogmanay these days, just another excuse to binge drink and create havoc.
Golach

**rich** · 02-Dec-03, 21:28

Let's face it folks, in Northern climes where the sun never shines in winter binge drinking, binge eating and binging of every type is an inescapable part of culture.
Isn't that how English literature began - with Beowulf and his band of mercenaries hunkered down at the court of King Hrothgar qualffing wine and ale and gnawing on boar bones with something very nasty under the table getting poised to strike.
Feasting and carousing and feeling the winter world turning under your drunken feet as you fling a bone to the howling hounds of winter....but I get carried away.
What has this to do with the Christian God?
Not much methinks because Christ lived in a mediterranean late roman imperial culture where you could walk on water in your sandals - try going without your socks in a Caithness January - not to be advised.
How then did we get stuck with this Christian God? Largely because of politically motivated mass conversions in the 8th and 9th centuries. But even then the new religion had to take on the trappings of the old.
But as for this sentimental Christmas with cards and blue lights - that's just late Victorian kitch that came in with Prince Albert in the 1850s.
In my opinion it's time for an entirely new winter festival, one that reflects who we are and not what the Christmas card industry says we are.
I can remember when Thurso people kept the doors of their homes open on Hogmany with black bun and whisky for one and all. If that has changed I am truly sorry...

**rich** · 02-Dec-03, 21:35

My typing is collapsing. WALKING on water. And CONVERSIONS. Sorry. I may be about to slide under my desk.....

Zeebie · 02-Dec-03, 21:56

Whilst preparing the dinner tonight and mulling over in my mind about this forum I realised my biggest mistake!!

It should have read SIR Johns Square!!

**JAWS** · 02-Dec-03, 22:41

So rich thinks we should ignore Christmas and just celebrate Hogmanay in true Scottish style.
Sorry rich, but I didn't think the Romans got this far north. Hogmanay is just the whim of the Romans who created the Julian Calendar, hence January, named after the two faced roman god Janus.
Mind you, that could explain why you prefer Hogmanay!
And by the way, Prince Albert gave us the Christmas Tree, not Christmas Cards, they became popular because people became too lazy to write letters to all their friends at Christmas.

**rich** · 02-Dec-03, 23:34

According to Google,the first English Christmas card was created in 1843. Victoria came to the throne in the 1830s I believe. By 1843 she was married to Albert, the great pioneer of all things Christmas. I'll bet he had an influence on the Christmas card.
As for the Romans - well didn't a Roman fleet sail all the way around the Orkneys sometime prior to Julius Caesar?
Our pagan ancestors used to have a series of festivals in the winter months that had nothing to do with Christianity. Christianity got a hike on the local festivals. I mean who is this Father Christmas/Santa Claus/ Old St. Nick guy - what the heck has he got to do with the New Testament birth of the child Christ? Not much I would say. In his modern form he was invented in large part by the Coca Cola company. I detect a whiff of pure heathenism from the old guy.
SO there you are. Santa Claus is a Heathen!
And I still say Hogmany is a heathen/pagan celebration.

**©Amethyst** · 02-Dec-03, 23:44

I feel as though I should apologise to you, Rich... I forgot to stand in the middle of Thurso and yell for all the Muslims in town "Happy Hari Raya" the other day.

As for Zeebie - yes, I agree. I was on my way home this evening and coming to the square I could only just see the outline of St Peter's and St Andrew's. It is a shame that it could not be seen very much. But alas, the church is the church and I don't think it has anything to do with Thurso's Christmas lighting.

Anonymous · 03-Dec-03, 12:40

Although I hate to admit it, I have to side with Rich on this one.

As a completely non-religeous person, I cant stand this time of year, talk about having someone else's beliefs rammed down your throat.

As far as Hogmanay is concerned, I'm happy to welcome in the new year, from whatever calendar it may be. But this is because I do actually believe that on the first of January we will be in a new year. As this date is roughly based on the fact that our planet has made it through another full orbit of the sun (give or take a quarter day) I would be hard pushed to dispute this. If someone decided that we should start our year in the middle of summer and have new year then, I would be just as happy. Although I find it fitting that its in the dead of Winter in this part of the world as we in northern europe seem to have always had some kind of party in the winter to help us get over the lack of sunlight. Lets face it, what better time to call a party, when we're all fed up wi the cold and dark.

Its a shame that most of the people I meet over new year, partying, are partying hard enough that they might forget the sheer hell they have been through preparing and spending for christmas. Its seems for them to be one last blowout before they start the long road of paying for it all (and complaining loudly about it until around March). I for one will have no such burden as I stride with determination into the new year (mabee with a bit of a wobble depending on the quality of the party), I'll be fully prepared for the phone bill arriving mid-january and I wont be dreading the credit card bill hitting the mat around the same time.

Anyway, here's some interesting stuff about calendars, where they came from, how they are calculated etc:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/Calendar.html

Anonymous · 04-Dec-03, 01:36

Let's just enjoy it. We all need a wee break.

Rich is right in many of his assertions.

Christmas cards are attributed to Sir Henry Cole, who invented the postage stamp. In 1843, he reckoned he was too busy to do the usual thing of sending hand-written messages to friends at Christmas (a practice which dated from around 1460), and commissioned an artist to produce a set of printed cards. The idea caught on.

We celebrate Christmas in December because the Romans celebrated Saturnalia at the winter solstice. Christianity was decreed the official religion of the Roman empire in the 4th century, but with great diplomacy, and to avoid conflict, they opted to celebrate Christ's birth at the same time of year. There is no birth date of Christ mentioned in the Bible.

Of course, the Romans didn't get this far north. But as usual, we gave in.

Rich is also right about Santa. St Nicholas was the patron saint of children, sailors, unmarried women and pawnbrokers. And he was always depicted dressed in green. Until 1931, when Coca-Cola gave him a make-over.

Never under-estimate the power of marketing.

Mike