Lack of respect = Lack of dicipline

[golach]

Have been reading a post on my thread about thurso beach, and in y oppinion the problem is simple there is no dicipline for kids anymore, whether it be at school or at home you just arent allowed to say or do anything, so the kids are just left to run amok.

I mind when i was little at school we used to get the belt, and my god you knew all about it if you did and you never did anything wrong again, so in my eyes if we step up the dicipline then these thugs might be put in their place.

I would say that it is the reverse, lack of discipline = lack of respect.

[PantsMAN]

It would seem that those who are to blame are the parents then. That would be people between the ages of what, 25 - 45?

Anyone posting here of that age, with unruly kids?

No?

Then where do these kids come from?

[greenasiamcabbagelooking]

Balto, Teeny etc ... mind when you were at school and you had at least one radge kid who wouldn't respond to detention, belt, beatings etc ... ?

well guess what ... since then they've had kids as well.

and their kids will have kids and so your grandkids will complain on the org about how they have no respect etc ....

there will always be unruly, feral little mentalists going about, there always has been.... and i hate to say it, there always will be

discipline wasn't lost when we banned the belt, the nutters i was at school with didn't care if they got the belt, they got worse at home.

we have to remember that the problem kids are a small minority and most of our young Caithenssians are stand up citizens who also look down on these 'problem youths' dragging their reputation down.

the kids that do have a 'bad attitude' or no respect for their community are more often than not a product of a family who for generations have been the same.

i wholeheartedly agree that the parents are to blame, but we need to reach out and connect with these kids and make them feel that they have a part in our community, until then, they'll just go on and have some sprogs at a young age who will grow up to repeat what they know .... ad infinitum .......

[Vistravi]

I would say that it is the reverse, lack of discipline = lack of respect.

Aye golach i believe that is true too.

Children have to know when they do something wrong and they must pay the price for it. As an example, a child kicks another child or an adult, there is no way that child is going to get away with it. In many cases with small children a time out does the trick. They will be missing out on a fun activity due to whatever they did wrong be it snatching a toy and pushing the other child when he/she protested. it makes them think.

Going back to the old way of doing things is not going to happen but by explaining to a child clearly and simply according to their age why they cannot do something and carrying out on any threats you make is the way to ensure that they respect you and do as their told.

The worst thing you can do as a parent is fail to deliver your threats out such as not getting to play with a toy due to their negative behaviour or having to do a time out.

It's hard going on time out when a child persitingly does the naughty thing when the child screams and screams. In the end you have to have selective hearing and only hear the postive things such as the child silently sitting doing their time out and saying sorry. With praise they will see that that doing negative things to get attention isn't nesscarily.

No praise when doing something postive but loads of attention when doing negative things is a viscious circle. A child will see where they can get the most attention and will do that to get the attention. So to avoid the viscious circle parents and carers have to ensure they make a fuss of the postive things the child does and to always praise them when they are doing the right thing and what you want them to do. an example would be when walking when the child who often tries to let go of your hand and run off is walking nicely holding you hand. it is important to let them know you like what they are doing and are happy with them for taking your hand. if you don;t do it then they'll carry on letting go and running off or trying to. Small children love to please you and to see you happy with what they are doing. When they see that doing something in a certain way makes you smile and praise them they will carry on doing it.

Hollow threats, shouting etc acheive nothing. The child learns that you won't carry your threats out and become used to be shouting at and will properly shout and scream back at you.

Discipline starts at home and when carried out properly by parents from a young age the child will always respect an adults authority and will know the penalty for doing something they are not allowed to do.

It is our job as parents and their carers to ensure that children know the penalty of their crimes so to speak. if we do not teach our children discipline and respect then they will grow up with no regard for anyone else. We as their teachers have to teach them what is important in life and how to treat other people. It's never a hard task as you start it from a young age by reminding them to watch where they are going as john is there and you are hurting him. they won't understand untill they are about 2 and a half but it is there untill they fully understand.

I'm going to stop now, lol Children is a topic i could go on for hours about.

[Vistravi]

[quote=mrsinkstack;571563I do agree that a lot of children are out of control but it's the parents who need educating, not the bairns to be lashed with a belt !!
[/quote]

exactly, who do children learn from in the first place?

[Serenity]

I agree with this. Unfortunately when I was at school the belt had already been abolished. This meant I had to share classes full of people who didn't want to learn and did all they did to disturb the class with the teacher unable to do anything.
I know some people will come back at me to say there are other ways of controlling these kind of children so they don't ruin other kids education but these weresn;t available when I was there and I don't know if they are available now.
What hurt would a belt slap do to a kid anyway? I probably deserved one or two and would have just dealt with it. You reap what you deserve after all. Even from a young age. The only problem I can see with that is some people thinking it means voilence in general is available.
So honestly I don't know. The only answer I can see is segregate the kids who are not taught respect from their parents, put the parents in a parenting class and before any starts it yes if they have adhd etc (and it is PROPERLY diagnosed and not just used as an excuse from parents who can't control their kids) then get in some people to help them integrate.
Basically my point is why let children of parents who can't be bothered teaching basic respect ruin every other kids education?

[BINBOB]

Let's all go back to the dark ages then - you don't have to lash your bairns with a belt to teach them respect and discipline. I have three kids, they are well mannered and they behave themselves, I can take them anywhere without any hassle.I would never dream of hitting out at any of them.
I used to regularly get lashed with a belt or a slipper when I was little and TBH it made me very resentlful, I didn't really do anything to deserve it.
I do agree that a lot of children are out of control but it's the parents who need educating, not the bairns to be lashed with a belt !!
I've seen people walloping their bairns across the back of the head or screaming in their faces - there is no need for it. Treat your kids with the respect that they deserve and they'll repay you for it in the end ! I'm not a wishy washy liberal who doesn't believe in smacking but there really must be a limit and I'm afraid, in my humble opinion, corporal punishment is over stepping it !

Discipline does not mean corporal punishment....

[Flashman]

Let's all go back to the dark ages then - you don't have to lash your bairns with a belt to teach them respect and discipline. I have three kids, they are well mannered and they behave themselves, I can take them anywhere without any hassle.I would never dream of hitting out at any of them.
I used to regularly get lashed with a belt or a slipper when I was little and TBH it made me very resentlful, I didn't really do anything to deserve it.
I do agree that a lot of children are out of control but it's the parents who need educating, not the bairns to be lashed with a belt !!
I've seen people walloping their bairns across the back of the head or screaming in their faces - there is no need for it. Treat your kids with the respect that they deserve and they'll repay you for it in the end ! I'm not a wishy washy liberal who doesn't believe in smacking but there really must be a limit and I'm afraid, in my humble opinion, corporal punishment is over stepping it !

I agree somewhat with that, it is definatly the parents who need to get a grip and corporal punishment is defintly no quick fix answer... it goes much deeper than that and I think is a problem with societys attitude nowadays.

But I think there is a place for physical punishment aswell if needed and used correctly.

I got the slipper from both my mum and dad when I was wee, now my mum I did not care about as she could not hit hard but my dad left my bottie roaring red and it sure as hell taught me where the line was! lol.

[grumpy1]

Just reading some of these comments and it makes for a very interesting debate...i must say...

there is far too much of the opinion that my child is great i know my child behaves, my bairn wouldn't do that an all that jazz..
i myself have 3 kids which i feel i am doing my best with..im trying to instill the values i myself were brought up with, i can be quite hard on my kids an yes they sometimes resent me for it (having to go to bed before 9.00pm..i make them do chores around the house etc)... now although i am confident that my kids behave in public..i also no that just sometimes they will push the limit.... if my kids cross the line they are dealt with appropriately...what i find is that too many parents only think they live on the moral high ground and when push comes to shove its usually theryre kids that are influencing the problems that are seen in others..and as a result they are never dealt with because (in words too often heard) "my kid's wouldn't do that"....well news flash they probably do....

[Venture]

There always seems to be threads on here criticising the young of today. Hardly ever do I see one praising them. Take a look at the recent front pages of the org or the local papers and you will see just how many of our younger generation spend their time and what they have achieved. Far too often the younger generation in our county are all tarred with the same brush. The majority of our local teenagers are well behaved, good mannered and do respect other people and their property etc.

Many adults today forget that they were once teenagers and that each generation had it's faults. None of us can say we were a "goodie two shoes" all of the time. The majority of parents do a wonderful job with their children and they turn into good upstanding adults. Blaming the lack of physical punishment both at home and school as the reason for some children going astray is rubbish. Nobody should need to physically assault a child to get a message across, there are better methods.

Children who go of the rails are not always from disfunctional families with parents who couldn't give a toss about respect for anything. Parents who have brought up their children well have often been shocked at just what their son or daughter can get up to once they step outside the front door. Everything they have ever taught them goes flying out the window when peer pressure rears its ugly head. Sometimes children, expecially teenagers, will do anything to fit in with the crowd even although they know, that by doing so, it goes against everything that their parents have ever taught them. It's amazing just how many teenagers from good homes end up flying with the crows and getting shot.

Personally I wouldn't want to be a teenager today, the pressure from parents, school and peers must at times be overwhelming. Perhaps a little more help and understanding and less "preaching" from the fine upstanding, non-drinking, non-swearing, non-violent, well behaved adults amongst us, might not go amiss. Of course that's if they can find the time in their busy lives.

[bobbyrussell09]

I agree somewhat with that, it is definatly the parents who need to get a grip and corporal punishment is defintly no quick fix answer... it goes much deeper than that and I think is a problem with societys attitude nowadays.

But I think there is a place for physical punishment aswell if needed and used correctly.

I got the slipper from both my mum and dad when I was wee, now my mum I did not care about as she could not hit hard but my dad left my bottie roaring red and it sure as hell taught me where the line was! lol.

think you need the slipper prob more now than what u did lad lol

[Flashman]

think you need the slipper prob more now than what u did lad lol

Ha ha ha that's prob very true!

[The Angel Of Death]

I'm the same i got the slipper or the wellie boot when i was younger and once even the brush but i knew the boundries and when to stop but all in all it never did me anyharm (if anythign taught me to be flyer and not get caught) nowadays you cant do anything move a hair out of place and your reported

Remember the news where a dad spanked (ohhh errr) his child in a dentist surgery for misbehaving after several warnings and got taken to court for child abuse what is there for parents nowadays when the hippy pc naughty step / timeout (no not the tasty sweet) fails to work ?

[Flashman]

I'm the same i got the slipper or the wellie boot when i was younger and once even the brush but i knew the boundries and when to stop but all in all it never did me anyharm (if anythign taught me to be flyer and not get caught) nowadays you cant do anything move a hair out of place and your reported

Remember the news where a dad spanked (ohhh errr) his child in a dentist surgery for misbehaving after several warnings and got taken to court for child abuse what is there for parents nowadays when the hippy pc naughty step / timeout (no not the tasty sweet) fails to work ?

Wellie boot..ats harsh lad! lol


Yeah there is alot of Social Engineers floating about nowadays in power....

The sort of Liberal elitist who thinks that they way they bring up their children in their quiet upper-middle class village should be the same for a child living on a hard working class area of Glasgow.

It's up to the parents to decide how to bring up their child not the government .

[WickWitch]

When I was at school if I got into trouble then I was also chastised by my parents. Now if a child gets told off at school too many parents side with the child instead of backing up the teacher. Many parents want to be their child's friend and don't discipline their children. I am constantly amazed when parents say that they have no control over their three year old!
Good manners cost nothing and that goes for adults as well as children. There seems to be a lack of respect in all walks of life now. All anyone can do is to not accept bad behaviour from anyone. If I get bad service I complain but if I get good service I make a point of letting their supervisor know. There are lots of brilliant kids around but there are lots of really bad parents too!.You don't need to beat a child to instill respect and discipline. It takes time, patience, discipline and lots of love to bring up a child properly but so many parents can't be bothered. It is easier to stick them in front of a DVD or computer game, feed them junk food and give them whatever they ask for. Yes, it is hard to say no at times but in the long run it is better for the child.
Children have been given too many rights without the balance of responsibilities..........
And now that I have polished my halo I shall don my superwoman outfit and go and rescue the world

[The Angel Of Death]

Exactly but at present parents seem to be more afraid and plenty get threatened with the "touch me and I'll call childline" line now I do agree with them being there for abuse cases but come on if your misbehaving expect a clout after a warning there are way to many kids that turned out ok and plenty that it installed a since of discipline within them as well and way to many out there that are running off the rails because they are not disciplined

Just out of curiosity how many people was threatened with getting sent to the children's home when they were wee ?

[BINBOB]

Exactly but at present parents seem to be more afraid and plenty get threatened with the "touch me and I'll call childline" line now I do agree with them being there for abuse cases but come on if your misbehaving expect a clout after a warning there are way to many kids that turned out ok and plenty that it installed a since of discipline within them as well and way to many out there that are running off the rails because they are not disciplined

Just out of curiosity how many people was threatened with getting sent to the children's home when they were wee ?

It was not the childrens home...but some secret person called TARRY FEET.I had visions of a great tar dripping man coming to get me...never happened,and It did me no harm..no nightmares..nothing.

[mrsinkstack]

Balto, Teeny etc ... mind when you were at school and you had at least one radge kid who wouldn't respond to detention, belt, beatings etc ... ?

well guess what ... since then they've had kids as well.

and their kids will have kids and so your grandkids will complain on the org about how they have no respect etc ....

there will always be unruly, feral little mentalists going about, there always has been.... and i hate to say it, there always will be

discipline wasn't lost when we banned the belt, the nutters i was at school with didn't care if they got the belt, they got worse at home.

we have to remember that the problem kids are a small minority and most of our young Caithenssians are stand up citizens who also look down on these 'problem youths' dragging their reputation down.

the kids that do have a 'bad attitude' or no respect for their community are more often than not a product of a family who for generations have been the same.

i wholeheartedly agree that the parents are to blame, but we need to reach out and connect with these kids and make them feel that they have a part in our community, until then, they'll just go on and have some sprogs at a young age who will grow up to repeat what they know .... ad infinitum .......

This of course makes a lot of sense but don't you think that back when we were kids that one 'radge' kid as you put it, cause we all had one, there might have been something underlying that was making them like that ? Possibly ADHD, Aspergers, from a poor home, problems at home etc. I do believe that it is a visious circle, that those children only know one way to behave and then in turn teach their own children etc. But then that is the time when this small minority of people should be educated how to 'parent' properly. To break that cycle ? Surely this is when the health system would kick in, health visitors, social workers etc. It's basic phsycology or possibly biology - the whole nature verses nurture argument.

[scorrie]

There always seems to be threads on here criticising the young of today. Hardly ever do I see one praising them. Take a look at the recent front pages of the org or the local papers and you will see just how many of our younger generation spend their time and what they have achieved. Far too often the younger generation in our county are all tarred with the same brush. The majority of our local teenagers are well behaved, good mannered and do respect other people and their property etc.

Many adults today forget that they were once teenagers and that each generation had it's faults. None of us can say we were a "goodie two shoes" all of the time. The majority of parents do a wonderful job with their children and they turn into good upstanding adults. Blaming the lack of physical punishment both at home and school as the reason for some children going astray is rubbish. Nobody should need to physically assault a child to get a message across, there are better methods.

Children who go of the rails are not always from disfunctional families with parents who couldn't give a toss about respect for anything. Parents who have brought up their children well have often been shocked at just what their son or daughter can get up to once they step outside the front door. Everything they have ever taught them goes flying out the window when peer pressure rears its ugly head. Sometimes children, expecially teenagers, will do anything to fit in with the crowd even although they know, that by doing so, it goes against everything that their parents have ever taught them. It's amazing just how many teenagers from good homes end up flying with the crows and getting shot.

Personally I wouldn't want to be a teenager today, the pressure from parents, school and peers must at times be overwhelming. Perhaps a little more help and understanding and less "preaching" from the fine upstanding, non-drinking, non-swearing, non-violent, well behaved adults amongst us, might not go amiss. Of course that's if they can find the time in their busy lives.

Today's parents are too busy worrying about when ASDA is coming, if WE are going to get a Pizza Hut and crying at Susan Boyle, to be able to get involved in bringing up their children properly.

[mrsinkstack]

Discipline does not mean corporal punishment....

I was being flippant and obviously over exaggerating I do believe that children should be disciplined and if that means a smack on the back of the hand etc, then fine, I've done it myself but lashing them with a belt, slipper or the cane at school is a bit extreme in my opinion. I got it when I was young, it did do me harm in the respect that it knocked my confidence. Usually when my parents 'lashed out ' at me was in a temper, not in control of the situation, what's the point in that ? Don't get me wrong, I have lost the head with my kids when I'm having a bad day or they've pushed me to my limit and end up shouting at them, I'm not perfect but then I feel terrible afterwards, surely the best way for your kids to learn from you is to lead by example? Do you want little Johnnie to go to school and batter other kids ? I feel that violence breeds violence and that can't be good