Has Music reached its peak of creativity?

**Rheghead** · 27-Apr-09, 23:53

Just a thought, I think music ingenuity might have reached its peak of creativity, the rate of new types of music are on the decline, most are behind us and we have only to look forward to the scraps of the future. Sure, we can play around with an old theme but can new genres be developed with the combination of notes that we already have without sounding really naff?

**Metalattakk** · 28-Apr-09, 00:23

Have to disagree, Rhegghie, there's plenty of ways yet to string any of those 12 notes together.

Combine that with the huge amount of instrumental voices that can be used to play those 12 notes...well, nah. It's gonna be a long time before creativity stifles itself.

Unless everybody falls for the Pop Idol pap that the mainstream media pushes...

**Kodiak** · 28-Apr-09, 00:31

Music like all forms of an artistic nature, will tend to flow like a wave on a Beach. With every Ebb and Flow Music will change but not always at the same rate. It will sometimes seem to be stuck and nothing new being preformed or written, then...... Bang! new and innovative stlyles will burst through and a new cycle has started all over again.

**Aaldtimer** · 28-Apr-09, 03:06

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Just a thought, I think music ingenuity might have reached its peak of creativity, the rate of new types of music are on the decline, most are behind us and we have only to look forward to the scraps of the future. Sure, we can play around with an old theme but can new genres be developed with the combination of notes that we already have without sounding really naff?

"YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!" (Copyright John the tennis player, c. 197?)

**joxville** · 28-Apr-09, 07:05

Pop Will Eat Itself?

**Green_not_greed** · 28-Apr-09, 08:24

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Just a thought, I think music ingenuity might have reached its peak of creativity, the rate of new types of music are on the decline, most are behind us and we have only to look forward to the scraps of the future. Sure, we can play around with an old theme but can new genres be developed with the combination of notes that we already have without sounding really naff?

As someone who was a teenager in the 1970s, I used to think that the late 60s and early 70s were the best period for music - well rock music in any case. I had that blown away when Radiohead released OK Computer about 1997. Then I found the Chilli Peppers, Tool and others who have their own unique sound and stand well above the "run of the mill" bands.

IMO some of the current jazz musicians are challenging the bounds as well - or better - than the likes of early bebop!

As Metalattakk said, there are a huge number of ways to string together the 12 semitones in an octave. And also a huge number of "instruments" to play and arrange the notes on - from classical instruments through to sampled industrial noise.....

I really don't think music is done yet.

GNG

**Gene Hunt** · 28-Apr-09, 08:46

I was going to come out with the middle aged man rant about how it was better in the 70's and 80's but then I remembered that it that was the time that gave us Black Lace and Chas n Dave ..

There are still some good original artists out there like Kings of Leon, Radiohead etc but there seem to be fighting against a tide of reality TV driven rubbish that wasn't a factor in years gone by.

**weeboyagee** · 28-Apr-09, 10:07

I'm going to enter this debate on a different note!

Whilst there may be plenty ways yet to string the 12 notes together, it's the styles that I wonder if Rheggers is getting at here. Synthetic or electronically created (as opposed to produced or engineered) music was the last absolute, never heard of before category that had never previously been heard - since the machines to make the sounds had never been invented. Soul, Blues, Jazz - all very distinctive. What's so distinctive about today's styles that they can't be argued to be a very week variation on a much previously stronger theme?

Punk - very distinctive. Rap - very distinctive.

What are the distinct genre's of today that clearly had not been heard before and are real innovative styles in the continuning development of musical history?

At the moment - although my first instinct was to take issue with Rheggers, I find myself agreeing with him since the case for defence is not a good one as far as I can see.

Can't wait til Tootler answers this one - she's GOT to agree!

WBG

**MadPict** · 28-Apr-09, 11:51

Think music through the ages is just a reinvntion of what has gone before it - while people still have the ability to create music then new 'forms' will be 'found'.

Unless you're Oasis - then every record you make will sound like off key Beatles....

**sevenfortyseven** · 28-Apr-09, 12:06

theres some good indie and rock about at the moment but can't beat the classics (pixies, blondie, etc.). you are right jox pop is indeed eating itself

**Green_not_greed** · 28-Apr-09, 12:07

Originally Posted by weeboyagee

What are the distinct genre's of today that clearly had not been heard before and are real innovative styles in the continuning development of musical history?
WBG

A good take on it!

Well, of what I've heard, try the direction which King Crimson are currently progressing - multilayered timing within timing overplayed by guitars and guitar synthesisers. Its unusual to say the least.

There also also those like John Cage - experimental and perhaps a little too arty (or just plain mad!) for my liking. But certainly unusual - to some, perhaps new and exciting.

Then there are pioneers like Brian Eno, who used a computer programme to produce a piece of ambient music in the 1990s.

Use of computers to produce future music may take the feel out of what's produced by live musicians, but given that not much is recorded truly "live" these days and that computer sequencing programmes can be programmed to include "human feel" than it may be the direction for future musical styles. And who knows what that could produce.

GNG

**percy toboggan** · 28-Apr-09, 12:16

I think it's impossible to answer this question.

**MadPict** · 28-Apr-09, 12:20

I am currently composing a new piece of music for wind instruments...

Think I'll name it "The Turbine Symphony".....

**Rheghead** · 28-Apr-09, 12:27

Originally Posted by MadPict

I am currently composing a new piece of music for wind instruments...

Think I'll name it "The Turbine Symphony".....

Something is Blowin' in the Wind that's for sure.

**tootler** · 28-Apr-09, 12:28

Originally Posted by weeboyagee

At the moment - although my first instinct was to take issue with Rheggers, I find myself agreeing with him since the case for defence is not a good one as far as I can see.

Can't wait til Tootler answers this one - she's GOT to agree!

WBG

Agree with you, WBG?!?! Doesn't happen very often...

I think the genre of music of today that will last the test of time and is actually developing at a rapid rate is film music - that's where the best composers of the late 20th and early 21st century are working and, if you actually listen to it, it's pretty innovative stuff. Most folk don't even notice how good the best film music is because it ties in so well with the story line, the characters, the mood... most of us are too busy crying / laughing / hiding behind the sofa to notice how fantastically intricately written and brilliantly performed the music is.

It all started with John Williams (remember Jaws? Close Encounters of the 3rd kind? E.T.?) and he developed this style right through to the first Harry Potter score. Many are now following in his footsteps and I'm glad to say it's a Scottish composer, Patrick Doyle, that's taken on the writing of the music for the later Harry Potter films and is doing a fantastic job.

I write new music most days and have never run out of ideas yet - I think there's always something new to say with those 12 notes, just like those 26 letters of the alphabet, we'll never wear them out!

**Rheghead** · 28-Apr-09, 12:30

Fully agree tootler, the German chap who did the Gladiator film score is a genius.

**Green_not_greed** · 28-Apr-09, 12:37

I agree that there are some great film scores out there.

But as to what the future may hold, here's something rather unusual thats happening right now

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8020904.stm

**MadPict** · 28-Apr-09, 12:40

Originally Posted by tootler

Most folk don't even notice how good the best film music is because it ties in so well with the story line, the characters, the mood... most of us are too busy crying / laughing / hiding behind the sofa to notice how fantastically intricately written and brilliantly performed the music is.

You say that though I have heard film scores which 'pay homage' to scores from other films (OK, use 'riffs' from...).

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Fully agree tootler, the German chap who did the Gladiator film score is a genius.

One such film soundtrack is Gladiator - it uses elements from The Planets by Holst and I can also detect bits from the soundtrack from The Battle Of Britain (in particular "Battle In The Air" written by Sir Malcolm Arnold).

Guess if you go far enough back folk won't notice a little passage here or there.....

**buddyrich** · 28-Apr-09, 13:02

Music is cyclical and so is taste i suppose, especially in popular music. There are 12 notes, myriad rhythms and voices and weird noises that people will use, it'll become a trend and whatever was en vogue previously will be discarded for a few years then it will all repeat.

I think the tv musical talent shows have no place in a serious discussion about music. Music is the unfortunate, downtrodden conduit that people ride to get famous. Some people spend years studying music as a craft and give it the respect it deserves, as opposed to packaging it as a commodity and shoving it down peoples throats.

But then again people generally get the entertainment they deserve.

**MadPict** · 28-Apr-09, 14:05

Originally Posted by buddyrich

....peoples throats.

I was going to post a reply along the lines of "what got down his throat" and then link to a You Tube video for Mongolian Throat Singing but sadly most of the comments have been polluted with idiotic racist and profane remarks...

Just look it up - quite amazing sounds.

The recent 'trend' to embrace folk music from all corners of the world into western music has lifted music from the 'doldrums' in my opinion. I went and saw a group called Baka Beyond a few years ago and they incorporated the songs of the Baka people into western style folk. Even though the lyrics are 'alien' much of the folk music from distant lands is highly enjoyable.
I have an album of songs from the Deep South gathered by Alan Lomax which probably gave inspiration to this gathering of music for 'reuse'.

While there are musicians who can gather such material and work with it, I will be happy to listen to it.

Have to agree about your 'talent show' point. Dumbed down music for the dumbed down masses......