I'm trying to figure this one out ??

[Rie]

I cant help but think ANY further education should be free or goverment funded after all we pay enough taxes,after all once they have finished there education they pay it all back in to the system with the tax on there wages,
Education is one of the best gifts in life, with out it what happens? kids with nothing better to do go out get in to trouble because they cant get a job due to lack of education/qualifications or get pregnant costing the goverment and taxpayer even more money with no end result.

[Thumper]

Well said rie and I totally agree!Couldnt rep you for it though as I havent spread it around enough yet x

[Venture]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8012362.stm

It seems many youngsters who do qualify for university will have added competition for places.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Should it not be one rule for one one rule for all.

If Im responsible for my childrens costs until in their twenties if they want to stay in education to eventually give something back into the system via taxes should they get a good job. Should not other parents be responsible for their childrens costs until their twenties ?

[squidge]

Its not just the benefits system its the whole system.

The messages sent out by government are all wrong. One section of the population are growing up thinking I dont need to get a job Im better of unemployed get iven a council house rent paid council tax paid and live on minmal money. Not the best way to live but a life.

Is it the messages by the government though? Is that what your children think Alice? Is that what you thought? Was it what I thought? I would bet no its not. There was never ever any thought in my mind that I would leave school and not work, that i would be pregnant before i was married, that i would live in a council house with my rent paid. what makes you, me and our children aspire to more? is it the government? I doubt it - what is it then that prevents other young people from aspiring to anything more than a life on benefits whilst those like our children work hard to achieve more anddont consider any alternative?

Truly get on and earn around 150,000 and the government are saying thankyou very much we've screwed up so now you can hand over half so that it can be sorted.

Am i the only one that thinks that if you are lucky enough to earn a significant salary then you should be prepared to pay more in tax to hep those who are less fortunate than you? I would doubt that someone earning £150, 000 per year actually pays half their pay in tax - they still get allowances remember so it wont mean they only take home £75 000 cash from their salary. I also wouldnt want to see it go more than 50%

As you can see Alice is sliding into negative mode...............

Never mind alice just look up susan boyle on you tube and you'll be smiling in no time

[Alice in Blunderland]

Is it the messages by the government though? Is that what your children think Alice? Is that what you thought? Was it what I thought? I would bet no its not. There was never ever any thought in my mind that I would leave school and not work, that i would be pregnant before i was married, that i would live in a council house with my rent paid. what makes you, me and our children aspire to more? is it the government? I doubt it - what is it then that prevents other young people from aspiring to anything more than a life on benefits whilst those like our children work hard to achieve more anddont consider any alternative?



Am i the only one that thinks that if you are lucky enough to earn a significant salary then you should be prepared to pay more in tax to hep those who are less fortunate than you? I would doubt that someone earning £150, 000 per year actually pays half their pay in tax - they still get allowances remember so it wont mean they only take home £75 000 cash from their salary. I also wouldnt want to see it go more than 50%



Never mind alice just look up susan boyle on you tube and you'll be smiling in no time

No ! I believe it starts within the home and how our children are raised.
If there is a safety net which becomes a comfort blanket then thats when the message percieved by some has become all screwed up. Also the benefits are there to be had easily is that also not why our country has become the target for so many who want to come to our shores because of the easy system. They are not queing up so willingly for other countries Why ?? a different system in place.

What prevents others from aspiring to do better I dont know I am not one of them but I am thinking it may be lack of motivation.

Yes pay more if you earn more but at the end of the day there is a limit to how much you can take out of someone before they decide enoughs enough and they themselves start to dodge the system or even up tacks and go elsewhere to work then you loose their tax altogether. I for one believe that some of the high earners have good accountants getting them off with as much as possible and there are others paying tax through the nose.

I have seen Susan and yes she does help lift ones spirits.

Its not just the Government its also the parents and society in general IMHO

[squidge]

Its not just the Government its also the parents and society in general IMHO

I Absolutely agree!

[Alice in Blunderland]

I Absolutely agree!

Okay lets you and me stand for parliament and we can make a start at trying to put things right

[Mrs Bucket]

children dont ask to be born to wothless , useless alchoholic drugie etdc parents the point is someone has to be resopsible for them It is ok if you are in an ivory tower

[Gene Hunt]

Nice to see that some people think because I worked my backside off to get where I am that somehow makes me responsible for others. Here's a thought, get off your backside and make the effort yourself. I make a good living and so does my wife. We are well off because we worked hard to get where we are, it had nothing to do with "luck" and a lot to do with sacrifice, dedication and going without. There were a lot of lean times with young children and we struggled until we both got established.

Took me two years to get qualified and my wife a lot longer than that. I have twin daughters and we will put them through University ourselves. They want to go to Cardiff University so they can stay at home and that will save a good bit. We will do our best to see that they graduate with no debt but we will get no help for our kids while paying a LOT more tax than others who will.

[tootler]

Okay lets you and me stand for parliament and we can make a start at trying to put things right

Vote for Squidge & Alice! The start of real democracy - we'll all vote for you and you can put everything right - thanks!

[thoms83]

you wont be expected to pay for your kids education if you cant afford it. student loans/bursarys are means tested (atleast for everything above HNC) so the less you earn the more your kids get from the college/SAAS.

also, since 2007 tution fees have been abolished in scotland so your kids dont pay for that either.

the size of your student debt depends on the person. ive been in further education nearly 5 years and mines is nowhere near 30,000.

hopefully you can sleep a bit easier now!

[sweetpea]

So really it doesn't matter if your rich or poor. If you want it bad enough you can.
I went to Uni, admittedly about 15 years ago but I paid for it myself.

[squidge]

Nice to see that some people think because I worked my backside off to get where I am that somehow makes me responsible for others.

We are all responsible for others Gene. I dont think that just cos a person earns more they should be hammered but i do think that if we are high earners then we should be taxed a wee bit more to help pay for those less fortunate than ourselves. Not everyone is lazing around on their backside making no effort Some people are working incredibly hard and arenever going to reach the dizzy heights of £20 000 per year never mind anything more.

So really it doesn't matter if your rich or poor. If you want it bad enough you can.

Ah but apparently it does - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7473469.stm

[thoms83]

Ah but apparently it does - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7473469.stm

all that report says is that ppl from poorer backgrounds are misrepresented in uni's - not that they are being prevented from going to uni.

and it focuses on the english system which is less accessible than the scottish one. they have to pay things like tuition & topup fees which we dont.

[Mrs Bucket]

Thank goodness there are some who dont all think IM all right jack so though. Some are gifted or blessed in life others get a faw deal disabled mentally or physically or just cant make the grade educationally no matter how hard they try or support there parents who for one reason or another are not able to cope but then maybe they should not have been allowed to have children

[Geo]

I am trying to get my head around this thought and have been all day.

Am I right in thinking that until my children are well in their twenties I am responsible, if I can afford it, to pay for their further education ie University including accomodation fees food etc etc.

Don't they get student loans for that?

[Gene Hunt]

We are all responsible for others Gene. I dont think that just cos a person earns more they should be hammered but i do think that if we are high earners then we should be taxed a wee bit more to help pay for those less fortunate than ourselves. Not everyone is lazing around on their backside making no effort Some people are working incredibly hard and arenever going to reach the dizzy heights of £20 000 per year never mind anything more

Seems to be a one way street in my view. Mainly consisting of those who don't earn what I do telling me I have a "responsibility" to them because I am somehow "luckier". To quote Northerner .. Get Stuffed.

Both myself and my wife are already in the 40% Tax bracket. I pay in a LOT more than I get back. I am no doubt already helping people through my taxes. Yet my two girls will get no assistance because me and the wife worked our backsides off and are on good money. Its a different system here in Wales than in Scotland with Tuition fees and the like, we will get zero help for our daughters.

I am not "Lucky" I worked hard and got the job I wanted at the cost of not a few sacrifices. Nice to see that all that means is that I get no help while those who haven't paid in as much as me just complain about what I have left.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Don't they get student loans for that?

Yes its means tested. I dont mind paying I have no problem. I find it hard to wonder why this is applied to children going into further education but not to other children who when under a certain age can recieve many benefits from the system.

[maverick]

Seems to be a one way street in my view. Mainly consisting of those who don't earn what I do telling me I have a "responsibility" to them because I am somehow "luckier". To quote Northerner .. Get Stuffed.

Both myself and my wife are already in the 40% Tax bracket. I pay in a LOT more than I get back. I am no doubt already helping people through my taxes. Yet my two girls will get no assistance because me and the wife worked our backsides off and are on good money. Its a different system here in Wales than in Scotland with Tuition fees and the like, we will get zero help for our daughters.

I am not "Lucky" I worked hard and got the job I wanted at the cost of not a few sacrifices. Nice to see that all that means is that I get no help while those who haven't paid in as much as me just complain about what I have left.

I have to agree with you Gene the harder you work the more the government want, my wife and I both work hard pay a shed load of money every year in income tax and national insurance. I like you do not consider myself to be lucky, I started with nothing and had to work bloody hard to get what I have today. There is a man I know we shall call him Mr X who lives a few streets away who has 5 children,neither he or his wife have ever worked a day in their lives and what's more he has publicly stated on a number of occasions that he has no intention of getting a job as he says it wouldn't be worth his while working, he has a car which he uses for shall we say wheeling and dealing, he lives in a council house he pays no rent and little or no council tax and can afford to go out to the pub most weekends and what's more recently returned home from a holiday abroad. As he quite often points out to people everything that he has is paid for by the state and it does not bother him one bit. It is this type of person who gets me annoyed, when I see my taxes going to keep him in the life style to which he has become accustomed . I for one have no problem helping those who are in need and are less fortunate or are just starting out in life but to hell giving to those who have no intention giving anything back...