You Tube block UK videos

[Valerie Campbell]

I saw on the BBC that You Tube will be blocking all what they call premium music videos as of 6pm in the UK tonight due to licensing problems. As usual it's all down to money. Apparently they need to generate more money since buying Google 3 years ago. I bet there will a lot of unhappy people out there who use You Tube to check out the latest song from their favourite artists and who won't be able to get it.

[Kodiak]

YouTube will be blocking these Videos, not to generate more money though. It is because of a Dispute between them and the Performing Rights Society who pay the song writers for their songs they have written.

YouTube say that since the Performing Rights Society want so much money from them they can no longer host commercial video music due to Copyright.

So if you want to hear this music now you will need to pay for it.

[George Brims]

Apparently they need to generate more money since buying Google 3 years ago.

Google bought YouTube, not the other way round.

[Gene Hunt]

Try using Spotify. Free music to access but you cant download, does not have videos on it but you can search the database and make playlists etc.

http://www.spotify.com/en/

If all you want to do is check out the latest releases its ideal. All you have to do is register for an account, download the installer and your away.

Everything I have looked for on it, I have found.

[hotrod4]

Proxy anyone?

[Valerie Campbell]

See what happens when you get distracted putting up a new thread! I stand corrected George. Of course Google bought it. I was having a senior moment or blonde moment or something!!! Anyway Google aren't willing to pay the same rate as now. In fact it was said PRS wanted to significantly increase payments therefore Google thought it too much revenue to part with. As the article says 'YouTube is the world's most popular online video site but has been under increased pressure to generate more revenue since its purchase by Google for $1.65 billion in 2006.' We'll see what happens.

[Bobinovich]

Isn't it just typical! How many used You Tube to identify new tunes to buy? You would have thought that the record companies using You Tube to promote their new tunes/videos would have been glad of the exposure and would have contributed to the costs of doing so.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face

[Jeid]

I'm not so sure about that Bob... really, how much money do you think record companies are making these days? I couldn't tell you the last time I bought an album for myself. Record companies are losing money left, right and centre just now. Musicians only make money by going on tour and by selling merch. The record company don't get a cut of that monies (at least, they never used to, but things have probably changed)

If they need to reap back money in any way they can, they'll do it, especially just now.

[Metalattakk]

I'm not so sure about that Bob... really, how much money do you think record companies are making these days?

With all due respect, name one major record company that deserves to make any money these days.

They've been taking the eyes/pish out of us for years. They deserve all the misfortune they get.

IMHO, of course.

[Jeid]

How many used You Tube to identify new tunes to buy?

I should've clarified... I was referring to this..

With all due respect, name one major record company that deserves to make any money these days.

They've been taking the eyes/pish out of us for years. They deserve all the misfortune they get.

IMHO, of course.

You're right, none of them deserve money, especially when you take into consideration how many musicians labels have ripped off and continue to rip off... not to mention consumers like yourself..

[Kodiak]

Isn't it just typical! How many used You Tube to identify new tunes to buy? You would have thought that the record companies using You Tube to promote their new tunes/videos would have been glad of the exposure and would have contributed to the costs of doing so.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face

It is not the Record Companies that is the problem.

It is the performing Rights Society, they are the ones that is asking YouTube to fork out more money.

YouTube say that they are asking for too much so this is why they have stopped the Music Videos.

[Metalattakk]

And what about this PRS nonsense? They charge the radio station a fee to broadcast, then force the consumer to pay when they listen to that same broadcast. It's an utter travesty. And even then, how do they dish out the money they collect? Does it go to the artists or the music companies? Three guesses there....

It's good to see YouTube standing up to them.

As was shown in the recent The Pirate Bay trial, the music industry is a dinosaur close to extinction, simply because they will not move with the times. Hell will mend them.

The glory days of fat, rich music executives are gone. The Screaming Jets only had to wait 18 years to see them tumble and fall.

The Screaming Jets - "F.R.C." - 1991

You drive your fast car, all over the town,
You got your offices up 50 floors from the ground.
You hire your slaves to bid for you,
You've got a couple of wives and a mistress or two.

And I can't wait to see you tumble and fall.

You dodge your tax man, you know all the right lines,
Getting fat and fickle on good food and red wine.
You're so greedy, you still got your first cent,
You're wife will probably leave when the money's all spent.

And I can't wait to see you tumble and fall.
I can't wait to see you tumble and fall.

Better watch out now, cause I'm telling you that it's all comin' down.
They say it goes around, well now it's comin' around,
It's gonna creep up on you and it won't make a sound.
You'll wake up one day and find you can't keep it up,
Then your time has come, you're all outta luck.

And I can't wait to see you tumble and fall,
Said I can't wait to see you tumble and fall.

[Jeid]

Does it go to the artists or the music companies? Three guesses there....

To the artists, PRS are the performing artists friend. They've been in touch with me regarding money we are eligable to collect.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

And what about this PRS nonsense? They charge the radio station a fee to broadcast, then force the consumer to pay when they listen to that same broadcast. It's an utter travesty. And even then, how do they dish out the money they collect? Does it go to the artists or the music companies? Three guesses there.

I'm not entirely sure how the money is dished out (percentage-wise), but I can find out. What I do now, though, is my partner - who is a professional musician - earns good money from having her music/ performances played on the radio. For example (and she doesn't mind she sharing this), she played in Glasgow recently as part of a 60-piece ensemble, and got paid approx £100 for having her performance broadcast on BBC Radio. She's shown me PRS statements (an organisation she is a member of) where even when, say, a keep fit class is playing her music, she gets paid - and a decent swedge it is, too. With a bit of ingenuity, I think a lot of musicians can get by very well by NOT signing up with a label or record company.

Incidentally, I personally think PRS are the Stazi, and, that, I don't see any fairness in punishing non-profit, volunteer-driven community radio stations, and small shops (who may now have to switch off the radio) who may withdraw their sponsorship from all this carry on. It's a bit like having your landlord raise your rent because you won the lottery, too. All in all, though, I think the message is still this: dinnae mess (with Google)...

[Metalattakk]

To the artists, PRS are the performing artists friend. They've been in touch with me regarding money we are eligable to collect.

I'm not entirely sure how the money is dished out (percentage-wise), but I can find out. What I do now, though, is my partner - who is a professional musician - earns good money from having her music/ performances played on the radio. For example (and she doesn't mind she sharing this), she played in Glasgow recently as part of a 60-piece ensemble, and got paid approx £100 for having her performance broadcast on BBC Radio. She's shown me PRS statements (an organisation she is a member of) where even when, say, a keep fit class is playing her music, she gets paid - and a decent swedge it is, too. With a bit of ingenuity, I think a lot of musicians can get by very well by NOT signing up with a label or record company.

Good info guys - cheers.

The whole process is a mystery though, and is one of the other things that YouTube have complained about - the lack of transparency shown by the PRS.

For instance Pepsi, how do the PRS know that a keep fit class is playing your partner's music? And how long for? Does The Spice Girls get the same as her (presuming the keep fit class plays their "music") or do they get mroe?

How do the PRS divvy it all up?

It's a bit like having your landlord raise your rent because you won the lottery, too. All in all, though, I think the message is still this: dinnae mess (with Google)...

One of the statements made by the PRS to counter YouTube's removal of the videos was "YouTube's parent company made £4.5B profit last year" (or something similar), implying that Google should be paying for YouTube's increased PRS fees. Yeah, like that practice would stand up in the business world...

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I'll find out and get back to you...

[The Pepsi Challenge]

"PRS press release

Dear Member

You may have read the news stories this week about Google blocking access to ‘premium’ video content on YouTube in the UK as a result of their not agreeing a new licence with PRS for Music. Premium content appears to refer to music videos that are traditionally uploaded by record companies.

You may also have read that Google took this decision unilaterally, without any request from us to do so. Their licence with us had expired at the end of December 2008 and we were negotiating their new one. We do not usually ask anyone to remove content as long as good faith negotiations are taking place.

Immediately we heard news of Google’s decision to pull content from YouTube, and that they were talking to the press about it, we issued our own press statement. We expressed our outrage, shock and disappointment on behalf of UK consumers and on behalf of you, our members that Google should take this action.

Google’s decision must be seen as an attempt to influence commercial negotiation and the focus on ‘premium’ content as an attempt to cause disruption within the music industry again. This content may account for about 1% of YouTube music streams.

At the heart of Google’s precipitous action is the going rate for music. This is the rate set by the UK Copyright Tribunal in 2007. The Tribunal is the ultimate and independent arbiter of copyright dispute. Digital service providers pay a fraction of a penny per stream to the creator of the music.

Most of the major digital service providers are licensed by PRS for Music. And just recently we have signed deals with Amazon, Beatport, Nokia Comes With Music and Qtrax.

YouTube has signed-up to licences in very few countries around the world – we were one of the few. They have never before taken down content unless they have been forced to do so by copyright holders. Meanwhile, in the UK, consumer streams of YouTube ‘premium’ content have risen by almost 300% in the last year alone (up from 75m streams a quarter to nearly 300m streams a quarter). In total, Google want to pay 50% less than they paid before for that usage. Google think they paid too much last time. But their music usage, charged at the going rate, suggests they were significantly underpaying.

A further delay to our negotiation has been that Google is, at present, not giving us the data we need to calculate correct royalty payments to you. We ask them to make returns on their music use in the same way that every other major licensee does in order that we can properly analyse it, charge the right fee and then pay the copyright owners we represent. If there’s a stream of a track we don’t control, Google won’t pay us for that stream. Google would like to see our database in order to match it against theirs so they can calculate how much they owe us.

We look forward to continuing our negotiations with Google where we will be looking for them to pay an appropriate amount for the volume of music they use and the contribution that songwriters make to the success of their service.

In the meantime, please help us to help you. There are numerous Internet blogs hosting discussions on songwriter royalties. All too often, the voice of the composer and songwriter is lost in the midst of issues relating to the freedom of the Internet. Many blog posters misunderstand how royalties work and how you get paid. We should not forget that more than 90% of PRS for Music members receive less than £5,000 per year in royalties.

Wherever possible, please contribute fully to this online debate, putting the composer and songwriter point of view. Additionally, if you feel you could give your time, where needed, to talk or write to the media in support of PRS for Music and of the composer/songwriter community, please email us.

With best wishes


Steve Porter, Chief Executive, PRS for Music"

The fact remains: you can't expect PRS to be able to say "you owe us x amount of pounds" and not expect them to be able to prove it.


Metalattakk - I will get back to you regards your questions.

[Valerie Campbell]

So, what you waiting on Pepsi? There's an invite if ever there was one. Thanks for posting that.

[cmack6189]

Try using Spotify. Free music to access but you cant download, does not have videos on it but you can search the database and make playlists etc.

http://www.spotify.com/en/

If all you want to do is check out the latest releases its ideal. All you have to do is register for an account, download the installer and your away.

Everything I have looked for on it, I have found.

should also try last.fm, i use it all the time, good for finding new music similar to what you already listen to. completely free, there are a small selection of tracks available for free download, not much, it does have videos aswell