American Right-Wing Merchandise

[golach]

Just another thought on this northerner, how does a religiously motivated soldier who is a Christian manage to square the circle of having to break the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill"?

The British Army usually get over this one by hiring the Gurkha's, they are not Christians

[scorrie]

not to be tangled up in the thing this post has become, but can i say that as an american citizen that i am offended by the racist way that i have percived scorries orig. comments.
he may not have meant it that way but that is the way it came across to me.
there is black humor everywhere, but that does not mean that i a simple american takes part in it. and the KKK pictures i find that deeply humuliating and deginerating. it is sadly a horrible part of the southern life, that a minority live strongly by today.
there is such hatred and bias attached to that it is just stupid to bring it to light, as anyone that has a close personal knowlege of it will be horrified.
america is not perfect, there are good people and their are bad people.
but its the exact same here and everywhere else on this planet.
i as an outsider could start slagging off wick by going on about druggies and tinks. about the absolute lack of moral values, how children run wild like rabbid animals. ive seen tshirts worm with pride that state Dirty Weeker which i think from what ive been told was orig an insult?. its not a nice thing to do to belittle another culture as a whole. i felt as if you are taking a few things and painting an entire people with the same brush.
if i have taken it out of context then im sorry, but that is just how i read the comments.

I merely presented some examples from an AMERICAN website and asked whether they were funny or xenophobic. Let me tell you, that site had Right-Wing Americans making a mockery of their fellow citizens for being more Liberal and Peace loving than themselves. There were T-shirts suggesting that Liberals should be clubbed!! That is WAY more than anything I was suggesting. Most people here have disagreed with my opinion but they HAVE, in the main, seen my comments for what they are. I do not post very much concerning politics and only came across the original site while looking for NFL Jerseys. I selected the USA for discussion because a) It was the site I came across and b) I felt some of the merchandise was not only racist in nature but insulting to some American people as well. I think that most people would agree that American culture is looked at as an example that other countries aspire to. If that same country is filled with people who not only despise some foreign countries, but also some of their own people, it does not make for a very hopeful World vision.

I would say you need to think about having a thicker skin and giving people the benefit of any doubt. I am only here to offer up points for discussion and let other people give their opinion in reply. I have traded Teddy Bears with hundreds of people in the USA and had many friends I kept in touch with regularly until the market for the bears collapsed. It is not American PEOPLE I was referring to, rather attitudes and actions instead.

[Melancholy Man]

Scientific Knowledge does indeed change, that is why it is probably unwise to to go spraying millions of gallons of chemicals on a country.

Thus, even though you concede that Agent Orange was thought non-harmful to humans and was, subsequently, used rather than bombs which would definitely have killed, the American military should be held accountable for knowledge decades down the line.

Try not to cross any zebra crossings with this attempt to prove black is white.

And, you can keep talking about "millions of gallons" as if it carries a weight of its own, but it is secondary to the area sprayed and respective quantities of pesticides used elsewhere in the world at the time. Not to mention the complete lack of reproducable data on its causing birth defects.

Michael Gough's "Agent Orange: the Facts" is a good place to start.

Agent Orange IS a chemical.

Blimey! You must have asbestos cheeks to come out with this guff! Explosives work by chemical reactions, but they are not chemical weapons! By making appeals to blesséd international law left, right and centre, you set yourself up for a major prat-fall when your reading is shown to be fallacious.

As has just happened.

As far as Chemical Weapon legality goes, you can check this out:-

Not relevant to a discussion about Agent Orange.

If it is, in fact, legal, let me apologise and send out a call for Great Britain and The USA to similarly apologise to Iraq for invading under, at least partly, false pretences.

Sorry, what is the relevance to chemical weapons here? (Except, the obvious, that Saddam Hussein had been using them with abandon. And he was not the only one.

Add to that the matter of the multi-national aspect of the Coaltion, and that your asertion that the invasion was illegal I am, confident in saying, going to be almost exactly wrong.

Just another thought on this northerner, how does a religiously motivated soldier who is a Christian manage to square the circle of having to break the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill"?

Easily. This does not place a blanket ban on taking human life.

Plus, if you cannot tell the difference between the scumbags letting off bombs in market-places or executing teenage girls and Western-trained soldiers in combat situations, it is your moral compass which needs reset. The same as the posture which places the invasion of Iraq further up the condemnation scale than the Anfal Campaign.

[scorrie]

Thus, even though you concede that Agent Orange was thought non-harmful to humans and was, subsequently, used rather than bombs which would definitely have killed, the American military should be held accountable for knowledge decades down the line.

Try not to cross any zebra crossings with this attempt to prove black is white.

And, you can keep talking about "millions of gallons" as if it carries a weight of its own, but it is secondary to the area sprayed and respective quantities of pesticides used elsewhere in the world at the time. Not to mention the complete lack of reproducable data on its causing birth defects.

Michael Gough's "Agent Orange: the Facts" is a good place to start.

Blimey! You must have asbestos cheeks to come out with this guff! Explosives work by chemical reactions, but they are not chemical weapons! By making appeals to blesséd international law left, right and centre, you set yourself up for a major prat-fall when your reading is shown to be fallacious.

As has just happened.

Not relevant to a discussion about Agent Orange.

Sorry, what is the relevance to chemical weapons here? (Except, the obvious, that Saddam Hussein had been using them with abandon. And he was not the only one.

Add to that the matter of the multi-national aspect of the Coaltion, and that your asertion that the invasion was illegal I am, confident in saying, going to be almost exactly wrong.



Easily. This does not place a blanket ban on taking human life.

Plus, if you cannot tell the difference between the scumbags letting off bombs in market-places or executing teenage girls and Western-trained soldiers in combat situations, it is your moral compass which needs reset. The same as the posture which places the invasion of Iraq further up the condemnation scale than the Anfal Campaign.

There is no "Condemnation Scale", I don't believe in excusing certain actions because there is deemed to be worse happening somewhere else. That is my belief, period.

You can quote as many sites and use as much jargon as you wish but I suspect you are alienating many with your style. I have no wish to descend into Google Tennis here, so I leave the floor open while I withdraw before I offend anyone else. Cheers for your input though, it was quality for the most part and better than those who simply attack without saying anything real.

[Melancholy Man]

You can quote as many sites and use as much jargon as you wish but I suspect you are alienating many with your style.

I am providing verifiable references which, if anyone disagrees, allows an opportunity for reply. When discussing any historical or political event, this is vital, don't you think?

I have no wish to descend into Google Tennis here,

Although I have used Google to locate the URLs, I knew all beforehand. Dan Hardie, for instance, is a lovely bloke. I have also, believe it or not, read excerpts from Michael Gough's book.

so I leave the floor open while I withdraw before I offend anyone else.

The taking of offensive is, ultimately, theirs. I've made clear my position on such behaviour.

There is no "Condemnation Scale", I don't believe in excusing certain actions because there is deemed to be worse happening somewhere else.

The worse was/is not happening somewhere else. It was happening in under the Maoists in Vietnam and Cambodia. It is happening in Iraq under A-Q in Iraq or sectarian death squads.

But it's only American actions which meet with your specific condemnation, to the extent of fabricating the story behind Agent Orange. Those idiots marching under North Vietnam flags were marching for it. John Pilger, for instance, spent years cheering them on, and then found the first helicopter out of Saigon.

That is my belief, period.

Precisely the same suspension of moral sense which allowed the Bosnian War to chunter on, killing tens of thousands of Bosniaks, and would have allowed Milosevic another roll of the dice in Kosova. I am not seeking to exonerate the invasion of Iraq (especially as, pragmatically, I opposed it), but nor am I loosing sight of the matter of, after everything which has happened since the war ended, a majority of Iraqis *still* agree with the ousting of Saddam Hussein.

Issuing moral fiats like this is much easier when our society has never faced anything remotely comparable to the dementedness of A-Q in Iraq.

Cheers for your input though, it was quality for the most part and better than those who simply attack without saying anything real.

Appreciated. Now, my proprioception is doing funny things after the naratriptan. Time for bed.

[JAWS]

Ah, I have just realised the reason behind the thread. It is all about the how dare anybody take the mickey out of people who slavishly follow Liberal, i.e. Left Wing Dogma.

I can attack your beliefs in any way I want but don't anybody dare mock my beliefs.
It seems to me that such attitudes are no different to tub thumping religious zealots who brook no belief other than their own.

Ah well, I missed the point, I hadn't realised that we were intended to horrified because of one, totally insignificant site with a few trivial stickers and T-shirts.

Never mind, anybody know where I can get one that says, "Che lives" or was that “Elvis lives”, I never could tell which was the sillier claim? I do know which one gave more people pleasure and who, eventually had more effect on the World.
But that's a different story altogether when it comes to trying to stir up artificial disgust over absolutely nothing.

Remember folks, laughing can lead to you being placed in the stocks. Such frivolity must be banished forthwith. Do we still issue death threats here for people who mock the wrong thing or did we stop doing that when we stopped burning people at the stake in our uncivilised past?
There is no right or wrong answer to that question but it is something to think about.

[brandy]

puts on her little hillbilly hat.. im ah democrat yup... darn thoses republicans for ruining the world!

[Melancholy Man]

I really don't think it's fair to blame Republican politics per se for what's happened the past seven years, or even suggest that what has happened has ruined the world. It was in response to mass-murder on American soil, and what followed was comparatively restrained by historical and contemporary standards. More importantly, it resulted the removals of two loathsome state governments which were also welcomed by both the countries' populations. And, in Camp Litterbug, Brian Haw continues his 'protest' which began before 11/9 to call for an end to sanctions. Which have finished.

The idea that it has been a disaster hails from precisely the same source which inspired much of this thread: that exercise of American power, in itself, is to be opposed. That the forces which it fought/opposed last century - Nazism, Imperial Japan under the Showa, Communism, violent Jihad - killed and subjugated many times more *as* *part* *of* *their* *ideologies* makes it all the more disreputable. Abhorent though Apartheid was, more died under the Cuban/Soviet led wars in Angola and Mozambique.

Even though I would have opposed the Vietnam War, I would not have supported or ignored the collectivization of the rural classes (of course Marxists hate the peasantry) or Pol Pot. If I would have welcomed the demise of the Somoza clicque it does not follow I would have supported the Sandinista take-over.

As for Che t-shirts, eat this, Commies!

[hotrod4]

I have followed the Redskins for 34 years, I would rather watch them than Man City any day. As you say, live and let live.

By the way, are Man City now under Arab ownership? That would be a bit ironic

(Light touchpaper and stand well back!!!)

Have to disagree as I am a City supporter(for my sins)