Venues or lack of them

[Gleber2]

The biggest problem facing young bands in the North is the lack of venues.In the cities these days young unknown groups have to pay for the privilige of entertaining an audience. Not on!!!!
If a move were to to be made to start organising events in the various public halls in Caithness,would the audience support it by attending or would they just continue to support the vendors of alcohol and the CD players?

[Uppiebalad]

Now before anyone blows off thinking, what's Uppie coming with now, note that I have before me a copy of "Revealing The Vision Of Caithness", an arts development study of Caithness and I'm going to work from this document to deliver my viewpoint. So bare in mind this document was the result of wide ranging consultaion amongst artists of ALL interests in Caithness. Your area was voiced locally by Cinema For Thurso Group along with issues facing amateur film makers. Well done CFT!
Now there is a unbelievably wide range of venue provision in Caithness however it is the case that venues are remote with poor or no transport connections and very much under-fasilitated. These aspects makes the difficult situation that the community faces for arts provision generally.
Across the county there is a large auditoria capacity but it's a bit here, a bit there and a little more on the top of a hill somewhere. For both audience and performers this is just useless. Even if you can get to the venue you may be faced with failure at basic levels such as inadiquate number of power sockets. Plug in your amp and watch the lights go out- you can't have it all!
Then theres the audience capacity. You obviously have a magic number that is the break even point for the costs but many venues can't meet the cost needs of a band.
The Scottish Executive has a specific directive regarding venue provision in Thurso which states quite catagorically the need for a performance space of 250 to 300 seated with full stage fasilities, backstage and front of house.
In the glorious technicolor past Thurso Picture House and Wick Pivilion cinemas both put on bands and concerts regularly. Thurso Picture House was built as a cinema/theatre so it was fully provisioned for both film and live performance. Those days are gone and along with the 465 house capacity.
It's between Thurso High School and Skinandis for seated audience but Skinandis seats are spread throughout a building in an irratic way which is far from ideal compared to it's former life as a cinema. Remarkably however, Skins still seats around 350. Up side for Skinandis is that it is very well equiped in many respects and is fully A/V capable in proportion to it's size.
Thurso High School, well clearly a school hall not a public venue so that automaticall creates limitations even though the stage there is better equiped than the Assemble Rooms in both light and sound. The hall there is popular with orchestras due to it's acoustic values.
The Redwood is a cozy size with potential whilst the Viewfirth is large with a very poor stage best used for bingo (at a push). It is a place of legend none the less.
Drink is alas another issue, whether we like it or not a bar is an important part of the whole thing because a gig is in many respects a social occasion where all you guys and girls meet up with the same interest in music and musicians. A venue without license or bar is not good for a gig.
That doesn't help local bands though but now listen up. Have any of you spoken to Caithness Arts about venues, Boss, Estrella, Crimson Tide, I know you guys are on their arts directory pages, have you asked them about venues. Part of what they were set up to do is to persue venue provision in Thurso in accordance with the Scottish Executives words. There are things afoot that may be of worth for you guys to get your voices in about. If you don't speak up to Caithness Arts venues may always be an issue to you. Blue Mondays has one person in it's midst who has had to work with Caithness Arts and he could be your avenue of approach on the venue subject. (A bandstand in Sir John's Square would be a venue too!)
I suggest you have a look at the report, it's in your local libraries and might still be online here in Caithness.orgs archive pages- email Bill to find out. It's worth a read even though it has some huge gaps and it will help all of you to get a grip of a situation that you are not alone in.

[MagicalTrevor]

What about the Yard (lol) theres been a band on for the past 2 or 3 Friday and saturdays. Although cannot confirm as my memory is strangely fuzzy (wonder why)

[Uppiebalad]

It'l be all that "magic" Trevor

[MagicalTrevor]

In defence of Edinburgh, its as easy as pie getting a gig. No money need change hands because every second pub has an Open Mike Night, and many others like Whistle Binkies, Henry's are desperate for bands to play. Dunno about other cities though.

(Back to Wick) Theres often bands in Hagars is there not? And the Dounreay club are often keen for live bands? Weatherspoons in Edinburgh have started getting live acts could that happen in Wick?? (no :P) The black stairs often has bands?

This whole thing about music and drink not going together - I think in the city this is less of an issue because there is the market there to attract. However in caithness music is seen more of a side-kick to drinking. Bands strike in pubs because thats where the natural congregation of regular people are. Also often in cities bigger bands play so the smaller bands get a supporting slot or an opening slot. In caithness bands have to stand on their own 2 feet. Maybe you hardcore caithness scene music enthusiasts would pay £5 to get into a drink-free charity-free concert in Wick, but I bet Joe Public wouldn'. - especially if the acts on offer are unproven.

[Uppiebalad]

Wholey agree with you there Trev. Drink does seem to be the first concern in Caithness whilst the entertainment is secondary. There is a notion that one can't have a good time unless legless. It perhaps has a lot to do with long dark winter nights. There's a lot of dark hours after work to try to fill and people when bored often resort to comfort eating and drinking. Unfortunately there has been no serious attempt made to tackle these issues unlike other areas in the far north like Orkney and Shetland. Caithness does like to bury it's head when there is a real problem.
I don't know what the gig scene is currently like in Caithness so I'll take your word for it but so far there is nothing to suggest that gigs are as regular on the Thurso side of the county. That may be where some of the problem lies. There are signs of imbalance between the two areas from what I've read in here. One would have thought Thurso being that bit wealthier (?) would have had more going on but from what has been said so far it is not the case.
The easy access to venues and gigs in Edinburgh and other cities is what attracts bands from the north. Somewhere I said that Caithness is not good to it's own and this what I was talking about. In Caithness there are clearly bands looking for gigs but getting no support from venues so they look further afield. When they take there talent out of the county the big-wigs sit there wondering why the 'young folk' are leaving. In the ideal world people shouldn't have to leave there home town to achieve their goals in life but without support from within the community there will always be the exodus. 'Support' isn't just the music loving public, it has to come from local business and authorities. Unfortunately you are blessed in the Highlands with a culture department of the council (something that surfaced during the Arts study)that has sweet little interest in any kind of art. That aside some of your local councilors do support the arts but they may need more feedback to persuade them to do something.(also came up in the Arts study)
"Unproven" work is a very valid point. There is that unwritten thing that you can't charge a high ticket price for what might be classed as 'amateur' so some other insentive has to be added to pull the punters. Drink is the easy option. A Caithness bar that is not making money would be doing something terribly wrong in order to fail. When it comes to unproven I think you just have to be brave and get out there and do it regardless.

[zebedy]

Hey guys Zeb here... Didnt really take in the rest of the convo you had But I feel there are venues in Thurso Wick we need to play more.. We just need to push owners into having a good music scene with inn them!

Skins - Top place to play in caithness
Waterfront - Bad acoustics in there but a good atmosphere
Britania Hall - Played there once was really good!
Redwood - Another top proper place
Central/Top Joes - Indeed another place to play
Pentland Hotel - Played there with myjazz band went dwon a treat alothough its not for a rock band in there mellower bands Jazz.. Wind yeah go 4 it!

Weigh Inn Hotel - Playing there in march... Brill place to play.. the likes of Jump teh Q play there! nice atmosphere!
Thurso High - History of music in there
Wick High - Also good
Thurso View Firth - Beinging in sum good bands.. Make use of it people it shall not be much longer!
Dounry club wick - also looking to have music

People conplain about not gettin gigs ... You need to find them your selfs. Get out there make a wee demo if you can. Sitting prakin with your band non Stop isnt going to get you a gig.. Gettin ure self out there and looking is the only way!

[angela5]

I think the Barrigol Hall should have a revamp, thats where the Auction place was in Huddart Street Wick, many years ago that's where the bands played.

[tierce-de-picardie]

ye really were not too badly equiped for venues. thers also the ross institute in halkirk not a bad size stage nd stuff. i dont know what the council says about duing performances in back gardens lol.i think people will come but advertisment should be seriously in advance because that seems to be the problem often l8 or ill advertisement

[K dragon]

yeah about what zebedy said.

its true there are loads of venues. i totally agree but the fact that bands that dont have a lot of money have to pay to showcase their talent, its a major problem.

red wood is great but stage is too small. high school great venue and like you said major musicalk history but in some ways the high school is strangely territorial. seems to be that young bands and only young bands are allowd to play there at the most of times.

venues need to give THE BANDS a chance.

open mic nights would be great up here.

and i wish that the join between drink and music could be broken.

thats why at the mo my band are staying underground.

we would very much like to showcase some material but we feel that it qouldnt get the attention it deserved (not being big headed)

and most the venues up here only let bands in for the green paper that THEY recieve.

man it sucks that money controls everything lol

[Uppiebalad]

Excellent information there Zebedy. I also note that Castletowns Drill Hall is a good venue along with the remarkable spacious hall at Wattin. Unfortunately I understand the Barrogill Hall project will not be going ahead as the North Highland College have pulled back from the idea.
You have also emphisised a point I made earlier that if the venue doesn't book you, you go to the venue. Promoting your bands is very important just to get a gig.
And as tierce says, promoting the event well in advance is also important. In my experience of promotion for live events an optimum of 21 days and minimum of 14 days are required to ensure the message reaches the audience. Striking the balance is difficult no matter how much experience you have at it. Key to remember is not to promote so far ahead that people have forgotten by the time the show goes on but also not too late so that people can plan their diary. It's not a prescise science unfortunately.
To promote in Thurso you need at least 80 posters to cover locations including cafes, chippies, sports locations bars, shops, tourist information centre, train station, ferry terminal, petrol stations, garages, bus station (add 30 posters if you put them on the actual buses) and harbours. Flyers also work well and at least 300 at key locations that sell music and video.
With garage and garden gigs you have to be careful that you don't fall foul of the public order act. Local press works to some degree for the 23 plus age group but for 12-23 you should aim at 'people' locations and media outlets such as radio and television. Skinandis has full A/V systems and you could make an advert using your own video camera or local film makers to screen at the venue or connected locations. Sounds extreme but pushing is all part of promoting because the ultimate aim is to convince the public that they need to see your gig because it's the best show in town.

[wicker]

If you's play a wide variation of tunes then try the waterfront its not always a dj thats on, if they think a band is good will have a band on also sometimes

[zebedy]

Ive played the waterfront before... Not bad.. Acoustics are crap... But the equip of the night and PA wasnt great!


Do you have a contact number for me?

PM if you do please!

Zeb

[Reev]

we played the waterfront once, it was a disaster, they had no P.A etc

so we had to use mine

which in itself isnt very loud

and half way through our first song, it blew up

ugh, that gig sucked

[Uppiebalad]

The Waterfront has potensial but unfortunately it is very un-equiped. It capacity built as a big venue was aimed at maximising what could happen there but not having included in-house PA and A/V systems has nipped it's own expectation. It also has a lot of hard walls and surfaces, not enough to clean up the accoustics. A full house goes some way to dampening echo and reverb but not all the way. It would suit and orchestra or precution performance or a big band. It's also ideal Vitaphone Hi-Fidelity playback. That aside if you do happen to have your own resources suitable for a space that big then use it.
Viewfirth is a nice large space not to big but big enough. It also has some accuostic aspects all it's own but easyier to fill with a less powerful sound system.
The Assemble Rooms, mmm, ah, ....hmm! Dare I use the word 'cave' here?
My own experience of Skinandis is it's a bit clutered but well equipped for all kinds of performance. The house sound system serves extremly well with a good even spread of speakers through out and they serve food too, WEY HEY!
Anyone tried Liquid?

[Reev]

i have mates who work in liquid, and unlike the way it used to be,

they state the place isnt equipped for bands and bands werent and havent been thought about

which kinda sucks

[Uppiebalad]

A singularly bazaar position for a bar not to consider bands! I am shocked and surprised.

[Deemac]

I did a gig in the Viewfirth just before Xmas last year. Not one single punter bothered to turn up . . . . (what are they trying to say?)!

Was one of the best gig's the band played the whole year!! This bodes great ill for the Viewfirth as a place where ONCE great events were to be had (Most of the time - think of it as the equivalent of Skinandis now!!!, the Weigh Inn 15 years ago).

What a great shame to see the old place reduced to this state. I suggest they demolish it as soon as possible and build some nice cute OAP flats. THE PEOPLE HAVE VOTED (with their apathy) - Yes, it had occurred to me the band WERE REALLY bad. But, a band that did about 30 or so gigs in 2005 (with 28 bookings for this year so far) must be doing something right (all locally - no big FANCY cites for US!!)

Anyway, just had to ramble for a bit. . . . .

[Gleber2]

Your back must be sore with the number of pats you're giving yourself.

[Jeid]

I did a gig in the Viewfirth just before Xmas last year. Not one single punter bothered to turn up . . . . (what are they trying to say?)!

Was one of the best gig's the band played the whole year!! This bodes great ill for the Viewfirth as a place where ONCE great events were to be had (Most of the time - think of it as the equivalent of Skinandis now!!!, the Weigh Inn 15 years ago).

What a great shame to see the old place reduced to this state. I suggest they demolish it as soon as possible and build some nice cute OAP flats. THE PEOPLE HAVE VOTED (with their apathy) - Yes, it had occurred to me the band WERE REALLY bad. But, a band that did about 30 or so gigs in 2005 (with 28 bookings for this year so far) must be doing something right (all locally - no big FANCY cites for US!!)

Anyway, just had to ramble for a bit. . . . .

You put on a gig? Did you advertise it? When was it? Who was playing?

As Gleber says, your back must be sore.