A world gone mad

jjc · 28-Jun-03, 17:42

The governors of a Church of England school in my area have just 'cancelled' Halloween for their pupils, as it does not fit in with a Christian education.

Although I can see that a Church of England education falls under the auspices of Christian teachings, is it not wrong to be teaching children that other children are somehow evil because they dress up as ghoulies and ghosties one night of the year and have a little fun? After all, other than the followers of Wicca and Druidism, does anybody really see Halloween as anything other than an excuse to do just that?

Anonymous · 28-Jun-03, 18:34

I fear a haunting response from Gleeber coming

**©Amethyst** · 28-Jun-03, 20:26

what would the C of E know... they got a gay bishop, when the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is 'wrong'... not in as many words lol... there's loads about marriage etc. so am against some of the things they do...

having said that, I was brought up in an Episcopalian church - aaaaand I live with one... not a church, an episcopalian lol...

Infact, I got nowt against the C of E... but cancelling Halloween... it's just another thing for kids... ya know... get dressed up, go out, get sweets. Don't spoil the kids fun! Sheesh!

**golach** · 28-Jun-03, 22:20

Tut Tut Amethyst, ye will be wanting a Christmas tree in the classroom next, and maybe do away with Hogmanay,

Gollach

Anonymous · 29-Jun-03, 10:10

Wouldnt that be a return to tradition Golach? No Cristmas and presents at New Year? Or is that another old wives tale?

**©Amethyst** · 29-Jun-03, 13:36

Originally Posted by golach

Tut Tut Amethyst, ye will be wanting a Christmas tree in the classroom next, and maybe do away with Hogmanay,

Gollach

All through school, we had Christmas trees in classrooms on the run up to Christmas!

I'm also appauled at the C of E appointing and openly gay bishop... and I'm appauled at the C of S appointing openly gay ministers. It's beyond rediculous.

Could someone remind me why I've not started going to the baptist church? lol

*by the way, got nowt against homosexuals... just them being ordained in the church - homosexuality is not something that the Bible supports*

jjc · 29-Jun-03, 15:03

Originally Posted by ©Amethyst

by the way, got nowt against homosexuals... just them being ordained in the church - homosexuality is not something that the Bible supports

You can't have it both ways... either you have nothing against homosexuals, or you follow the notion that the Bible sees homosexuality as a sin, and therefore wrong. You cannot believe in both because they are opposing opinions.

Everybody should be free to follow whichever religion they wish (within the accepted bounds of socially responsible behaviour), but the 'gay-bashing' taking place at the moment over the appointment of the Bishop of Reading smacks of people using a religious text to justify their own small-minded bigotry.

By the way, I am often required to work weekends. As you disapprove of a homosexual bishop because the Bible tells you to, I take it you would also approve of my being executed for working on the Sabbath? If not, then how do you justify picking and choosing from the teachings of the Bible?

**squidge** · 29-Jun-03, 15:11

Hmmmmmm

I think the sexuality of a person affects not one jot their ability to act as a minister. If the man has faith and is able to preach Gods word then why would we be concerned if he happens to love someone who is the same sex as him.. In my mind the only "queer" people are the people who dont love anybody so good luck to him.

**monkey** · 30-Jun-03, 22:36

Got to disagree with you on that one, Squidge.

By seeking ordination into a Bible-based organisation, a homosexual individual is disobeying the principles of the faith into which he/she is being ordained.

While a homosexual person's ability to minister is not affected, his qualification to do so is clearly compromised, according to the Bible. Therefore, if the person's chosen religious organisation is one that requires him/her to follow the principles taught in Scripture, then he/she must conform.

And, when an organisation such as the C of E, or C of S, chooses to allow openly homosexual ministers, then it has chosen to disregard the Bible's clear teaching about who is and is not qualified to be a minister.

Amethyst - there's no harm in checking out the Baptists, they helped set me straight.

**2little2late** · 30-Jun-03, 22:51

There is no such thing as the bible. It's just a load of rot. Some clever person hundreds of years ago wrote it. It was then found by someone. They read it and the rest is history. No such thing as god. If there is only one god why are there so many religions? One god cannot support all the religions.

jjc · 30-Jun-03, 23:11

Originally Posted by Monkey

By seeking ordination into a Bible-based organisation, a homosexual individual is disobeying the principles of the faith into which he/she is being ordained.

While a homosexual person's ability to minister is not affected, his qualification to do so is clearly compromised, according to the Bible. Therefore, if the person's chosen religious organisation is one that requires him/her to follow the principles taught in Scripture, then he/she must conform.

And, when an organisation such as the C of E, or C of S, chooses to allow openly homosexual ministers, then it has chosen to disregard the Bible's clear teaching about who is and is not qualified to be a minister.

Monkey,

I put a question to ©Amethyst but did not receive an answer. Perhaps, as you see the Bible as teaching us that homosexuality is wrong, you could answer it. The question was:

I am often required to work weekends. As you disapprove of a homosexual bishop because the Bible tells you to, I take it you would also approve of my being executed for working on the Sabbath? If not, then how do you justify picking and choosing from the teachings of the Bible?

It's a simple concept, really. We all have expectations of what is and what is not acceptable behaviour. I think that we will all agree that putting somebody to death for working on a Sunday is not acceptable. And yet the Bible not only allows it, but demands it. The Church no longer follows that particular Biblical teaching because it no longer fits with our society. In the same way, bigotry must no longer find a place in our society.

I wish that people would stop using religion as means to justify their own narrow mindedness. Religions adapt to the world around them, that is the only way they would survive. We no longer put witches to death, yet the bible calls for it. We should equally no longer subject homosexuals to discrimination, hatred, or just downright non-acceptance, simply because it is written in the Book.

If you have a problem accepting homosexuals, at least have the strength of your own convictions and stop cowering under the robes of the Church.

**squidge** · 01-Jul-03, 23:00

Originally Posted by jjc

bigotry must no longer find a place in our society.

I wish that people would stop using religion as means to justify their own narrow mindedness.

I feel that this is exactly a point gleeber made in an earlier post on a different subject I think if i remember rightly- and i hope he will forgive me if i misquote him here- cos i cant find it... he said religion was the cause of prejudice. KW1 pulled him up by saying that it is one cause of it - maybe gleeber was right?

If religion is as old as man then maybe it IS the cause of our prejudices?

jjc · 01-Jul-03, 23:56

Originally Posted by Squidge

If religion is as old as man then maybe it IS the cause of our prejudices?

People are naturally prejudiced. We all want the perfect world but my idea of perfection almost certainly isn’t the same as yours. We judge those who we believe don’t fit in to our utopia and we either learn to live with what we see as their imperfections, or we don’t and we try to force them to fit in the way we want them to.

Religions are just an easy way to justify actions that are otherwise unjustifiable, they are not the cause.

Anonymous · 02-Jul-03, 04:46

KW1

Squidge you really know how to upset me

**rich** · 02-Jul-03, 17:13

Here in sunny, albeit somewat air- polluted, Toronto we just last week instituted marriage for gay couples.
Why anybody would want to get married in the first place is a mystery to me.
Alll over the city stable gay relationshiops are breaking up as people anguish over whether to marry or not.
Of course gay divorce comes with the package.
Nevertheless, I take pride in this development. And I feel proud to live in such a cosmopolitan and sophisticated city.
The Anglican Church in Canada sees to have taken the leadership role.
More power to them!

**squidge** · 02-Jul-03, 18:32

Originally Posted by kw14Ultra

KW1

Squidge you really know how to upset me

OOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh dont you pull that face at me KW14

jjc · 06-Jul-03, 20:25

what would the C of E know... they got a gay bishop, when the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is 'wrong'...

Not any more they won't. The gay priest at the center of this row has turned down the position of Bishop of Reading to protect the Church.

It is a disgrace that this man, who has dedicated his life to his religion, is unable to take up the promotion that, judging by the support he has received from the Archbishiop of Canterbury, so obviously deserves. It is appalling that ignorant bigots have been allowed to use religion as a justification for ruining this man's career and broadcasting personal details of his life to all and sundry. They should be ashamed of their conduct, but sadly I suspect they are rather proud.

**golach** · 06-Jul-03, 21:12

JJC,
I dislike the use of the word "Gay" by everyone in place of the word " Homosexual " I am of the older generation and the word "Gay" to me has a happier meaning as in the title of the Scottish Country dance "The Gay Gordons", and many other happy uses.
I am not a bigot I was a Merchant Seaman and a Steward as well on the passenger liners where homosexual communities existed and was accepted and tolerated by the hertosexual members of the crew.
All I say is I dont care if you are one way or the other just dont shout about it in my ear and expect to get a positive or sympathic reaction.
As far as the Bishop designate is concerned I could not care one wee bit as Im an Agnostic and have not the least bit of interest in the workings of the Anglican Church or any other for that matter.
Golach

jjc · 07-Jul-03, 17:21

Sorry Golach, didn't mean to offend... I just find the whole situation of 'Christian' folk who are unable to accept others for what they are astounding.